View Full Version : Titanic never sunk
Loch not Lock
16-Mar-09, 16:33
There has been many conspiracy theories concerning the disaster that seemingly sunk the Titanic.
I am one of the few who knows the real truth from personal experience.
As the person who told me the truth has now been dead for 10 years I now feel at liberty to disclose what I know.
For over 30 years I worked for a relative of someone who had lots to do with the Olympic.
Near the time the Titanic was due to sail there was a problem and the Olympic was substituted and all those involved had to sign the Official Secret's Act.
There was a mad rush to change thousands of fixtures and fittings so there was no trace of the name Olympic.
This is not a myth I am 100% sure of my facts.
There is a tv documentary about that very theory.
Loch not Lock
16-Mar-09, 16:44
Thank you, Geo, I am aware of the documentary. I was just confirming the theory from personal knowledge.:)
This is very interesting,I was well aware of this theory before now but find it interesting that you knew somebody who actually took part in this deception.What I always wondered though is where did the Titanic go if this story is true?She must have been broken up to hide the fact that it wasnt her or was she made to look like the Olymic?Why would they have not just admitted they had changed the name after she had sunk,rather than have to say the unsinkable ship had done exactly that?For the record I do think that this did actually happen but the reason as to why they didnt admit to it after the event baffles me,well apart from them getting more insurance for a new ship rather than an old one! x
Does it matter what the boat was called? Regardless of the name of the vessel, the stark truth is a tragedy occured-which could have been even worse had the Carpathia not been able to get to the survivors in time. So go ahead and expound your 'facts' and 'theories', it's not going to save any lives. Also, I find it hard to believe that the Official Secrets Act would have been signed, considering at that time it would have only really covered matters concerning National Security, usually those employed in Government sectors or police, army or navy.
They were made to look identical. Both ships were brought into drydock and any differences were fixed such as a few Windows on the front that were in different places. Cutlery/crockery that had each ships name on them were removed and replaced with "White Star" versions. Lots of little things like that which make it all the more believeable.
The reason offered was that the Olympic had been in a collision with a naval vessel. She was not insured and some deemed her unseaworthy. The Titanic on the other hand was insured...
The "plan" was to scuttle her, not to hit an iceberg. Coincidentally a ship was waiting not far from where she sank with 1000s of blankets and I believe lifejackets onboard for no apparent reason. It was the race to break the speed record which meant she didn't reach that boat, allegedly. Another coincidence was there was a coal strike at the time and the boat with the blankets managed to somehow get coal in time to head off in the direction the "Titanic" would be.
Many workers in the engine room refused to sail apparently as they said the engines had been well used and were not new.
Whether all this is true I don't know but it appears to have a certain amount of backing.
My great grandad worked on the Titanic and refused a free ticket for the maiden voyage.
Does it matter what the boat was called? Regardless of the name of the vessel, the stark truth is a tragedy occured-which could have been even worse had the Carpathia not been able to get to the survivors in time. So go ahead and expound your 'facts' and 'theories', it's not going to save any lives. Also, I find it hard to believe that the Official Secrets Act would have been signed, considering at that time it would have only really covered matters concerning National Security, usually those employed in Government sectors or police, army or navy.
As Jox says why would the Official Secrets Act be involved. Certainly I do not have the 'first hand' knowledge professed by Loch not Lock but I did spend a good few years employed by Harland & Wolff in Belfast. During that time I had access to plans and engineering drawings for all the White Star vessels and spent many hours looking at these, especially Olympic. The main drawings for Titanic are stashed away for security, nothing to do with any deception, but to keep them from being misappropriated, or pinched even. Harland's Engine Works had many records for both vessels and this substitution theory is one of these 'urban myth' things and absolute fantasy.
Are we expected to believe that the many thousands of people employed in the yard, not to mention the entire population of Belfast, all the White Star employees on both vessels, Lloyds Register of Shipping etc etc etc were signatories to the Official Secrets Act at a time when the country was not at war - get real. Even more far fetched, it has taken all this time for Loch not Locks friend to spill the beans, but nobody else.
Aaldtimer
16-Mar-09, 17:17
Roll up, roll up, read all about it!
http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/aol/redir?src=websearch&requestId=3a8359172e29f5cd&clickedItemRank=1&userQuery=titanic+%2F+olympic&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.titanic-titanic.com%2Ftitanic_conspiracy_theory.shtml&title=%3Cb%3ETitanic%3C%2Fb%3E+And+%3Cb%3EOlympic% 3C%2Fb%3E+Conspiracy+Theory&moduleId=matchingsites.jsp.M&clickedItemPageRanking=1&clickedItemPage=1&clickedItemDescription=WebResults
:lol:
Two massive vessels were photographed (http://www.titanicinbelfast.com/template.aspx?pid=243&area=1&parent=201) side by side in Belfast, yet they were able to both be repainted and refitted without anyone wondering what was going on? Was all the work carried out at night and under huge dust sheets? It is true that the Olympic was back in Belfast for a repair after hitting HMS Hawke, but that was in 1911, and again Olympic was back in Belfast in February 1912 to have a propellor replaced after dropping a blade. It's just a conspiracy theorist's dream that something untoward happened between both vessels.
Oh, and wouldn't you know it, someone just happens to have a book (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0711026335/rmstitanic0d) published about the 'ship that never sank'. I have many books about the Titanic however that is one that certainly won't be added to my collection.
Are we expected to believe that the many thousands of people employed in the yard, not to mention the entire population of Belfast, all the White Star employees on both vessels, Lloyds Register of Shipping etc etc etc were signatories to the Official Secrets Act at a time when the country was not at war - get real. Even more far fetched, it has taken all this time for Loch not Locks friend to spill the beans, but nobody else.
As far fetched as I think it is why would they all need to know? Only a few "high ups" would need to know. Loch's friend isn't the first person to come forward hence the TV program about it.
As far fetched as I think it is why would they all need to know? Only a few "high ups" would need to know. Loch's friend isn't the first person to come forward hence the TV program about it.
It all happened 97 years ago. There is no one left alive with absolute first-hand knowledge of the truth. A friend of a friend of a friend et al., it's a story that has been handed down several generations and has more twists than a twisty thing, but to me it's all bunkum. Bunkum I tells ya.
What about the Black Helicopters seen operating in the area just before it sank?
Wait for Thermite and molten steel to rear their ugly heads.......
The whole conspiracy theory including the Official Secrets Act just does not hold water. That would mean that White Star Line, Harland & Wolff, Lloyds Register of Shipping, the owners of Carpathia, and the British Government all conspired to defraud an Insurance Company ??.
It would certainly need more than a few 'head honchos' in the yard to be involved - literally the entire workforce would have some input.
The whole conspiracy theory including the Official Secrets Act just does not hold water. That would mean that White Star Line, Harland & Wolff, Lloyds Register of Shipping, the owners of Carpathia, and the British Government all conspired to defraud an Insurance Company ??.
It would certainly need more than a few 'head honchos' in the yard to be involved - literally the entire workforce would have some input.
Expand that to half the western world population. [lol]
The whole conspiracy theory including the Official Secrets Act just does not hold water.
Unlike the Titanic......
Unlike the Titanic......
Did I just walk into that one ??
Did I just walk into that one ??
No-I think you used the Titanic Olympic diving board. [lol]
The whole conspiracy theory including the Official Secrets Act just does not hold water. That would mean that White Star Line, Harland & Wolff, Lloyds Register of Shipping, the owners of Carpathia, and the British Government all conspired to defraud an Insurance Company ??.
It would certainly need more than a few 'head honchos' in the yard to be involved - literally the entire workforce would have some input.
I don't see why anyone needs to know other than some at The white Star Line? Shipping insurance fraud is not a new thing. Do you think everyone in every company who has carried out an insurance fraud knows about it? Why would this be any different? I agree with you that it is probably rubbish (although keeping an open mind) but I don't agree with your reasoning.
Found that the analysis of Robin Gardiner's ideas of the Titanic being swapped by Mark Chirnside, makes interesting reading.. such things like Gardiner stating that there was no name on the ship's bell which was recovered from the deep possibly proving the word 'Titanic' had been filed off, is an idea until it's realised that the bell was from the crows nest which normally had no ships name upon..
Interesting stuff:
http://www.markchirnside.co.uk/Conspiracy_Dissertation.pdf
I too believe in this theory,I honestly thought i was alone but now I know I am not!!
Its too much co-incedence to NOt be true.I do believe the theory regarding the Insurance scam.
It is a well known fact that many workers refused to sail on her as for such a "new" ship many of her parts were sub standard "second hand" parts to be new.
If it did all come out there would be a massive claim from the relatives of those who perished.
riggerboy
16-Mar-09, 18:47
There has been many conspiracy theories concerning the disaster that seemingly sunk the Titanic.
I am one of the few who knows the real truth from personal experience.
As the person who told me the truth has now been dead for 10 years I now feel at liberty to disclose what I know.
For over 30 years I worked for a relative of someone who had lots to do with the Olympic.
Near the time the Titanic was due to sail there was a problem and the Olympic was substituted and all those involved had to sign the Official Secret's Act.
There was a mad rush to change thousands of fixtures and fittings so there was no trace of the name Olympic.
This is not a myth I am 100% sure of my facts.
yes i have also heard that and believe it
Bloody hell folks have you not seen the movie!!!
That'll do for me :roll:
Bloody hell folks have you not seen the movie!!!
That'll do for me :roll:
Your heart may go on Octane ,but mine firmly beieves this!!![lol]
changilass
16-Mar-09, 19:52
Too many folks would have been involved, there is no way it would have stayed secret.
There may have been a candle stick belonging one ship that ended up on the other and chinese whispers have led to the story now being told, but I don't think its any more than that.
oldmarine
16-Mar-09, 20:06
Roll up, roll up, read all about it!
http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/aol/redir?src=websearch&requestId=3a8359172e29f5cd&clickedItemRank=1&userQuery=titanic+%2F+olympic&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.titanic-titanic.com%2Ftitanic_conspiracy_theory.shtml&title=%3Cb%3ETitanic%3C%2Fb%3E+And+%3Cb%3EOlympic% 3C%2Fb%3E+Conspiracy+Theory&moduleId=matchingsites.jsp.M&clickedItemPageRanking=1&clickedItemPage=1&clickedItemDescription=WebResults
:lol:
This is the first time I ever knew or read about a Titanic conspiracy. I remember reading in the past about finding the sunken Titanic, but never knew about a conspiracy theory. Very interesting.
What about the Black Helicopters seen operating in the area just before it sank?
Wait for Thermite and molten steel to rear their ugly heads.......
MP, have we gone over this before, or am I having a senior moment, (how do I send this) ahhhhh
The Truth is out there...........;)
Cedric Farthsbottom III
16-Mar-09, 22:07
It was the Olympic that sank not the Titanic.The White Line emphasised that the Titanic was unsinkable but due to difficulties in the Titanics construction they knew this wisnae true.Here's another conspiracy,one of the board of directors for the White Line had a grandson who was one of the directors of Decca Records who didnae sign the Beatles because guitar bands were old hat.
Foot in mouth must run in their family.
MasterSplinter
16-Mar-09, 22:10
I believe it was the sister ship that sank on the night of the disaster. I think it was a conspiracy for insurance reasons. But the truth will never be known as in less than fifty years there will be nothing remaining of the ship that is resting at the bottom of the sea.
We will never be allowed to forget the tragedy that took place in April 1912 and we should never allow ourselves to forget. Many lives were lost and all for a pair of binoculars and a iceburg.:D
Cedric Farthsbottom III
16-Mar-09, 22:23
My reading of the Titanic was that they put full steam ahead to show the world the dominance of this new ship.The poor guy wi the binoculars didnae stand a chance as the ship was going to fast.Also heard that the Titanic set sail stopped off half way across the Atlantic,asked all the passengers if they could kindly jump onto another ship,the Olympic.At least the ship was made of steel and not as wooden as Leonardo De Caprio's acting.Kate Winslet got her lady bumps out again,as usual.
jock leith
17-Mar-09, 00:02
Will Leonardo & Kate have to hand back their OSCARS,they might be charged with fraud now that the truth is out ??????;)
Gene Hunt
17-Mar-09, 00:57
There has been many conspiracy theories concerning the disaster that seemingly sunk the Titanic.
I am one of the few who knows the real truth from personal experience.
As the person who told me the truth has now been dead for 10 years I now feel at liberty to disclose what I know.
For over 30 years I worked for a relative of someone who had lots to do with the Olympic.
Near the time the Titanic was due to sail there was a problem and the Olympic was substituted and all those involved had to sign the Official Secret's Act.
There was a mad rush to change thousands of fixtures and fittings so there was no trace of the name Olympic.
This is not a myth I am 100% sure of my facts.
Dont listen to the doubters. I believe you.
So do Walt Disney and Elvis as we have all been discussing this in the kitchen. Buddy Holly didn't really buy it though and Stalin was trying to convince him, luckily the Men in Black just turned up before Stalin kicked off and took them all back to Area 51.
Honestly.
Valerie Campbell
17-Mar-09, 16:44
Well, whatever the name, a big boat, sorry ship, sank that night out in the North Atlantic with the loss of over 1500 lives. Maybe it was actually called 'Dave'...
Anybody know which two other famous boats sank in 1912?
Wasnt there a ship carrying German refugees sunk by the Russians at the end of the war, which was hardly publicised at the time. Estimates vary between 6-10 thousand who perished.
This was on Discovery Channel 15th March:
Explores the little-known sinking of Wilhelm Gustloff in 1945. Sunk by a Soviet submarine, the death toll was nearly six times that of the Titanic.
Awesome documentary! - although wartime and not as in peace time with Titanic
There were several minor but distinct differences between the Olympic and the Titanic, one of the most visible ones being the design of the bridge.
The story about the two ships being exchanged as part of an insurance scam due to the Olympic being unseaworthy, like most "Conspiracy Theories" falls down for one very simple reason. The amount of work and the number of people who would have to be involved to carry out the changes mean that it would have been impossible to keep it secret, too many people would have known for nobody to say anything.
As for the Insurance scam theory, the Olympic was at sea and went to the assistance of the Titanic when she had struck the iceberg so presumably both ships had been checked and passed as seaworthy at that time. Neither ship would have been allowed to sail without insurance as both were Royal Mail Ships and would have been insured with Lloyds of London who would have ensured they were both seaworthy. Lloyds tend to be very snotty about insuring unseaworthy ships, especially liners carrying passengers, it tends to be rather unprofitable.
When the supposed changes were supposed to have occurred the Titanic was still in dry dock and unfinished and, if I remember correctly, was still awaiting a propeller being fitted. To remove one massive ship from dry dock and to replace it with another would hardly have gone unnoticed.
The story of the conspiracy came about for one simple reason. After the Titanic sank there was, because of the massive public interest, a great demand for photographs for her. Because she was on her maiden voyage there were very few different photographs of her so enterprising people filled the demand by using pictures of the Olympic in addition to the few of the Titanic and simply altered the name on the photographs. That gave the impression, for those who noticed the slight differences between the two ships, that the actual ships had been swapped.
The Conspiracy story is fine except for one small problem, somebody ruined it by actually finding the Titanic. That meant that details of the ship have now been able to be checked. There are parts of the ship which is on the bottom of the Atlantic which are unique to the Titanic and which it would not have been practical or, indeed possible, to have exchanged between the two ships.
There was one woman who had worked on all three of the sister ships, the Titanic, the Olympic and the Britannic and survived the sinking of both the Titanic and the Britannic. I rather suspect that if the ships had been swapped she, at least, would have noticed that when she was working on the Olympic if she had got off it at the end of one voyage and when she came to sail on it again that things were different and not in the right places. Sister ships are similar but not identical.
It doesn't have to be a conspiracy to have the ships made the same. Off the top of my head, the Titanic was a better design so the Olympic was being updated to match.
The ships were side by side when the work was being done.
http://www.maritimequest.com/liners/olympic/05_olympic_titanic.jpg
A lot of what you mention was explained in the TV program
http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=519902&postcount=24
There was no conspiracy.
oldmarine
19-Mar-09, 01:23
Thank you Jaws & joxville: Your inputs help clear the mystery for me.
Lol.....this threads gonna last longer than the titanic
The Olympic had been damaged after a collision with a Royal Navy ship. The official reason was that, because the Olympic was something like 50% bigger than any previous liner, she had passed to close to the Navy ship and as a result (I can't recall the correct term) that ship had been sucked into a collision with her.
At that time the Titanic had still not been launched and, as a result, some of the parts destined for the Titanic, including a propeller shaft, were diverted to the Olympic to save time so she could be put back into service as soon as possible.
One thing I have always understood was that White Star Line, who owned the ships, was taken over by Cunard after the Titanic sank because White Star were then in serious financial difficulties.
Whilst I have been rooting round refreshing my memory about the details I have discovered that the merger did not take place shortly after the Titanic sank but was only carried out 22 years later in 1933 to form Cunard White Star. If I remember correctly, Olympic was eventually broken up around that time and the proceeds from that was used towards the cost of building the original Queen Mary.
Funny what you find out when you are bored and set off chasing links on the web.
Tom Cornwall
19-Mar-09, 16:33
It was the Olympic that sank not the Titanic.The White Line emphasised that the Titanic was unsinkable but due to difficulties in the Titanics construction they knew this wisnae true.Here's another conspiracy,one of the board of directors for the White Line had a grandson who was one of the directors of Decca Records who didnae sign the Beatles because guitar bands were old hat.
Foot in mouth must run in their family.
Here's a link that says the Olympic was in service well after the first world war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Olympic
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