And we aere supposed to look up to them.

[router]

Cam across this and it makes you wonder. I always thought that you had to be clean fom anything like convictions to join the police and maintain it throught your career. What is the world coming to

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7936041.stm

[riggerboy]

if you concider that the police are the biggest orginised gang in the world today with branches in every country, you would have to wear really dark glasses to think that they are not crooked and twisted, they have more cover ups than a really covered up thing, cant believe you dont believe they can be corrupt from the ground level up

[Metalattakk]

The Boy Scouts are also a large organised gang, with branches in every country.

Are they, by default, "corrupt from the ground (sheet) level up" too?

:roll:

[router]

if you concider that the police are the biggest orginised gang in the world today with branches in every country, you would have to wear really dark glasses to think that they are not crooked and twisted, they have more cover ups than a really covered up thing, cant believe you dont believe they can be corrupt from the ground level up


But they are not supposed to . How can i believe in them if this is the realistic view of things. Its hard to look at police knowing they could or have be done for speeding, being currupt, and whatever else they do. A copper stops a motorist for speeding then goes and does the same, how can they remain a police officer, joined the force to up hold the law yet willingly break it.Who is to believe in anything, when even those in authority cant be trusted.
I know the corruption goes on im not so nieve.:eek:

[Julia]

Quote - More than half of the 1,063 convictions relate to speeding or other motoring offences; 77 officers have convictions for violence and 96 for dishonesty.

Considering the amount of police officers working in the UK today I would say that that is a very small amount. Hardly newsworthy.

[weeboyagee]

Tend to agree with Julia. We can't expect everyone who is a Policeman to be as pure as the driven snow. Even the best of us have a criminal record and/or have spent a night in the cells! ;) It's no boast though!

WBG :cool:

[hotrod4]

I am sure there are Doctors,Lawyers, Brain Surgeons,Priests out there who have convictions but does that make them any worse at their job- NO!
It makes them Human like the rest of us, well I m Human anyway!!![lol]

[router]

I am sure there are Doctors,Lawyers, Brain Surgeons,Priests out there who have convictions but does that make them any worse at their job- NO!
It makes them Human like the rest of us, well I m Human anyway!!![lol]
so a policeman is allowed to speed because hes human, that gives a doctor the right to take a life instead of healing one if he so chooses because hes human.think of shipman.

You take a job like policing and yes you are expected to uphold the law not break it.:roll:

[golach]

so a policeman is allowed to speed because hes human, that gives a doctor the right to take a life instead of healing one if he so chooses because hes human.think of shipman.

You take a job like policing and yes you are expected to uphold the law not break it.:roll:
All I can say is "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" none of us are totally innocent are we?

[router]

All I can say is "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" none of us are totally innocent are we?


"Practice what you preach" in my eyes in any thing you do, but maybe thats just me.

[butterfly]

All I can say is "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" none of us are totally innocent are we?


good comment golach,none of us are pefect!

[changilass]

if you concider that the police are the biggest orginised gang in the world today with branches in every country, you would have to wear really dark glasses to think that they are not crooked and twisted, they have more cover ups than a really covered up thing, cant believe you dont believe they can be corrupt from the ground level up


I would be more worried if none had convictions, then you would have a case to shout corruption.

[Julia]

I would be more worried if none had convictions, then you would have a case to shout corruption.

Good point Changi! That would be far more worrying

[golach]

"Practice what you preach" in my eyes in any thing you do, but maybe thats just me.
Well router, if you are totally innocent, I congratulate you. I used to be a seaman, and as such brought home a few extra cigarettes over the allowance now and again, that made me a smuggler, nine years after I left the sea, I became a member of HM Customs & Excise, my smuggling experience made me a good Revenuer [lol]
Maybe to be a good police officer, you need to be and think like a criminal, just a thought.

[Whitewater]

I guess we all know about the poachers who became gamekeepers, reason being they made very good gamekeepers.

[anneoctober]

Tend to agree with Julia. We can't expect everyone who is a Policeman to be as pure as the driven snow. Even the best of us have a criminal record and/or have spent a night in the cells! It's no boast though!

WBG
Thanks for making me feel a right dull lady ! I hav nae spent a night in e cells OR been handcuffed, no even penalty points on my licence............:roll:

[George Brims]

All I can say is "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" none of us are totally innocent are we?
But some of us are smart enough not to get caught (except for the speeding thing...)

[hotrod4]

There is no-one in life who can say they have NEVER EVER done anything wrong.We have all done something though some will have done worse than others.Nicking a Towel from a hotel is theft technically,so is taking someones pen!!!!:lol:
I just cant stand people getting on their pedastool looking down their noses at society thinking they are without sin and are the moral guardians of society.
The truth is we all have skeletons in our cupboard it just depends if you open the door and have a look every now and again!!!![lol]

[GetWithTheTimes]

just my opinion but all the people sticking up for the fact that police officers that have broken the law is alright because nobody's perfect and we are all human is the main reason we have crooked cops

there should be no excuse for police men having violent offences on their list and speeding offences then going out and charging people for these offences its frankly disturbing that officers can still do their job after being convicted of crimes

there are plenty people who dont fight or speed two of which i strongly disagree with the government and the police is crooked enough without people saying oh its ok they are only human, if you knew of an officer charged with drunk and disorderly speeding and fighting you may feel different if he pulls you over and hands you a ticket with a large fine for being 5mph over the limit when he got away with a small fine for being 50mph over the limit

no police man/woman with criminal offence should be in the force and no doctor that has intentionally killed or made people ill should be in a hospital and a lawyer who is known for or been involved in any sort of crime should be trying to get criminals off the hook

everything from the government down is corrupt and people just accepting it is why nothing changes because everyone just accepts the fact police are criminals and the fact the government wont change

this is just my opinion and isnt meant to offend anyone here i just get wild when it comes to the police or the government they both F us over and majority just accept it so nothing will change

the government was put together originally to run the country as the people wanted it run what happened? now the government runs the people!

sorry rant over lol

[plutonio]

on slightly different note,
While out walking the dog i came across a set of keys, which i handed in to the Police station in Wick. About 4 hours later i received a call from the Police saying that the owner of the keys has left a reward.
I did not go until the following week to collect the reward, when i spoke with the lady in the station she confirmed that it was herself that phoned me and then went to find the envelope, after 5 mins she came back and said she could not find it but will call me when she does. 3 weeks has gone and still they have not found the reward!
i don't care about the reward, but i seems abit strange to me that a envelope with money in it just disappears in a police station?

[GetWithTheTimes]

on slightly different note,
While out walking the dog i came across a set of keys, which i handed in to the Police station in Wick. About 4 hours later i received a call from the Police saying that the owner of the keys has left a reward.
I did not go until the following week to collect the reward, when i spoke with the lady in the station she confirmed that it was herself that phoned me and then went to find the envelope, after 5 mins she came back and said she could not find it but will call me when she does. 3 weeks has gone and still they have not found the reward!
i don't care about the reward, but i seems abit strange to me that a envelope with money in it just disappears in a police station?

that is exactly why i dont like law enforcement they can be worse than us, i was no angel i can admit that i was a pretty messed up kiddy when i was younger and i noticed several times my tobacco going missing and packets of fags and money going missing when i was in the cells, you ask for it back they dont know where it is and you hear nothing back about it, but no the police wouldnt do a thing like that would they, the detainees must of got out the cells somehow and stole them smoked them and locked themselves back up hahaha

also alot of police persons have sons daughters that get into stuff they shouldnt but i bet you dont see them doing the time other normal kids do

i better stop ranting on this subject hahaha

but this is a forum and this is what its for voicing your opinions on topics of discussion

[bekisman]

Getwiththetimes

"everything from the government down is corrupt and people just accepting it is why nothing changes because everyone just accepts the fact police are criminals and the fact the government wont change,
this is just my opinion and isnt meant to offend anyone here i just get wild when it comes to the police"

I wondered where that all came from, but this explains it?:

"i was no angel i can admit that i was a pretty messed up kiddy when i was younger and i noticed several times my tobacco going missing and packets of fags and money going missing when i was in the cells, you ask for it back they dont know where it is and you hear nothing back about it, but no the police wouldnt do a thing like that would they, the detainees must of got out the cells somehow and stole them smoked them and locked themselves back up hahaha, also alot of police persons have sons daughters that get into stuff they shouldnt but i bet you dont see them doing the time other normal kids do"

Fair enough everyone is entitled to their opinions, just wondered why these 'corrupt' coppers put you in nick in the first place?

No one, and I repeat no-one is perfect, it is a very small minority of coppers who transgress, it's life for heaven's sake. Human fraility is a human trait. I include Catholic priests who molest kids and get away with it - THEY are the ones who should be strung up not some bleeding copper who goes over the speed limit or gets a wee bit enthuastic in a Saturday night brawl.. I for one a'int been in nick, hopefully by being a good little boy - so presumable my own opinion is different?

[GetWithTheTimes]

Getwiththetimes

"everything from the government down is corrupt and people just accepting it is why nothing changes because everyone just accepts the fact police are criminals and the fact the government wont change,
this is just my opinion and isnt meant to offend anyone here i just get wild when it comes to the police"

I wondered where that all came from, but this explains it?:

"i was no angel i can admit that i was a pretty messed up kiddy when i was younger and i noticed several times my tobacco going missing and packets of fags and money going missing when i was in the cells, you ask for it back they dont know where it is and you hear nothing back about it, but no the police wouldnt do a thing like that would they, the detainees must of got out the cells somehow and stole them smoked them and locked themselves back up hahaha, also alot of police persons have sons daughters that get into stuff they shouldnt but i bet you dont see them doing the time other normal kids do"

Fair enough everyone is entitled to their opinions, just wondered why these 'corrupt' coppers put you in nick in the first place?

No one, and I repeat no-one is perfect, it is a very small minority of coppers who transgress, it's life for heaven's sake. Human fraility is a human trait. I include Catholic priests who molest kids and get away with it - THEY are the ones who should be strung up not some bleeding copper who goes over the speed limit or gets a wee bit enthuastic in a Saturday night brawl.. I for one a'int been in nick, hopefully by being a good little boy - so presumable my own opinion is different?

Just because i was no angel doesnt make a difference on my point of view the fact that i was trying to put across was that the police theive and do crimes which is the very thing they are supposed to be preventing

you would soon be shouting the odds if a doctor was killing people instead of saving them

or a corrupt judge letting crime members away with crimes

the fact remains if you are doing a job which involves the responsibility of a police job or doctor you cant just do something wrong because you aint perfect and we are all human

i think some of the people are missing the point, this is the number of police who have criminal records what about the ones who dont and get away with crimes, alot of people are narrow minded when it comes to the government and the police

i wasn't an angel but i also wouldnt join the police as it would be hypocritic of me to then go and charge people for crimes i have done previously

and just because i was bad doesnt mean i am now so why would me being an angel change my perspective when i am a now law abiding citizen and have been for years

and just because a copper is corrupt doesnt mean they wouldnt jail a criminal where you got that idea from is beyond me the point is they done crimes and are being allowed into a job that is fighting against crime it is hypocrasy at its worst it isnt something to be taken lightly and if you find it is i am sorry for you

also if you take a bit of time to look at the article it states:

55% speeding or other driving offences this could be wreckless driving and driving under the influence
9% dishonesty so they are lying which i would assume is perverting the course of justice or covering for other officers
7% violence which can include racial assault amongst other things
10% other??? this could be anything
19% not stated, why wasnt it not stated it could be anything probably more serious crimes by the time they werent stated

and this was only 41 forces not all of them

[router]

Just because i was no angel doesnt make a difference on my point of view the fact that i was trying to put across was that the police theive and do crimes which is the very thing they are supposed to be preventing

you would soon be shouting the odds if a doctor was killing people instead of saving them

or a corrupt judge letting crime members away with crimes

the fact remains if you are doing a job which involves the responsibility of a police job or doctor you cant just do something wrong because you aint perfect and we are all human

i think some of the people are missing the point, this is the number of police who have criminal records what about the ones who dont and get away with crimes, alot of people are narrow minded when it comes to the government and the police

i wasn't an angel but i also wouldnt join the police as it would be hypocritic of me to then go and charge people for crimes i have done previously

and just because i was bad doesnt mean i am now so why would me being an angel change my perspective when i am a now law abiding citizen and have been for years

and just because a copper is corrupt doesnt mean they wouldnt jail a criminal where you got that idea from is beyond me the point is they done crimes and are being allowed into a job that is fighting against crime it is hypocrasy at its worst it isnt something to be taken lightly and if you find it is i am sorry for you

also if you take a bit of time to look at the article it states:

55% speeding or other driving offences this could be wreckless driving and driving under the influence
9% dishonesty so they are lying which i would assume is perverting the course of justice or covering for other officers
7% violence which can include racial assault amongst other things
10% other??? this could be anything
19% not stated, why wasnt it not stated it could be anything probably more serious crimes by the time they werent stated

and this was only 41 forces not all of them

I have to agree with everything you say. When joining a force wether it be services or police you do so knowing your job is to uphold the law. save lives, teach children it does not matter, all are expected to do there job and set an example.
It makes me wonder where people get off thinking its ok to abuse the system when alot of topics on here are about abusing sytems one or the other.
But as you say getwiththetimes people turn a blind eye to it all and nothing changes.

[GetWithTheTimes]

Great minds think alike router, i wasn't always good but i don't dislike the police for them jailing for for what i did wrong i deserved it, i dislike them for the wrong they have done, whether i was wrong or not doesn't give them the right to be wrong back, I'm sure most peoples mothers said 2 wrongs don't make a right at some point.

[rockchick]

so a policeman is allowed to speed because hes human, that gives a doctor the right to take a life instead of healing one if he so chooses because hes human.think of shipman.

You take a job like policing and yes you are expected to uphold the law not break it.:roll:

You are comparing a speeding ticket to murder????

[GetWithTheTimes]

You are comparing a speeding ticket to murder????

did you read the actual article and look at the statistics?

it says speeding and other driving offences! this could be anything from drunken driving and reckless driving, and that was only half of the % there was violent crimes dishonesty and other whatever that is and also not stated! i would probably think not stated was more serious crimes they dont want people knowing about, i also know of an officer i cant remember his name i will try to find out who was crooked and molested a woman and wasnt fired he got transferred! now you trying to say that is right? but i suppose he is just human no-one is perfect as so many people have said in this thread i think everyone here got to the end of the first paragraph and has this dilusion that the world is perfect and the police wouldnt do anything that bad, well they do it isnt just films it happens in

this isnt a thread saying police persons with a speeding ticket shouldnt be allowed to work it wider than just speeding tickets and if everyone is fine with law enforcers breaking the law then the world and the people in it are further from making this world a better place than i thought

the government and the laws are bad enough without people thinking that law breaking law enforcers are ok, i dont know why everyone thinks this is ok i mean come on get a grip people

(this to my knowledge is an adult debate and i by no means intend to offend people with my point of view but i also cannot be held accountable for someone being offended that i do not have the same views as them this is no fault of mine and cannot be helped i believe what i believe)

[router]

Great minds think alike router, i wasn't always good but i don't dislike the police for them jailing for for what i did wrong i deserved it, i dislike them for the wrong they have done, whether i was wrong or not doesn't give them the right to be wrong back, I'm sure most peoples mothers said 2 wrongs don't make a right at some point.


neither am i innocent nor a policeman. I would be a liar to say im innocent and have seen the side of the law that i choose now to forget, but i certainly cant repsect a person that does not practice what they preach.
Welcome to the org.:lol:

2 wrongs dont make a right, but simple minded folk on here always choose to disagree with those who speak sense. fact of the org, watch for the bad reppers though they out in droves.[lol]

[golach]

2 wrongs dont make a right, but simple minded folk on here always choose to disagree with those who speak sense. fact of the org, watch for the bad reppers though they out in droves.
Goodness Router, your turn of phrase, reminds me, of a former Orger, who name eludes me, are you having your scripts ghost written for you?

[GetWithTheTimes]

neither am i innocent nor a policeman. I would be a liar to say im innocent and have seen the side of the law that i choose now to forget, but i certainly cant repsect a person that does not practice what they preach.
Welcome to the org.:lol:

2 wrongs dont make a right, but simple minded folk on here always choose to disagree with those who speak sense. fact of the org, watch for the bad reppers though they out in droves.[lol]

i am sure i will get bad rep for speaking my mind but i will some how find it childish that if i do it shows that grown adults cant accept that not everyone has to agree its a world of free speach and if the way the world has been run is anything to go by then the people who have been agreeing all this time aint doing a very good job

there are certain subjects i would raise and try to enlighten people about but i fully know that certain subjects i would raise would end up in me being carded or suspended as my outlook in life would seem outrageous to alot of people especially narrow minded people who just believe everything they are told and taught, media is propeganda and the only people who dont see this are the people who are taken in by it

thank you for the welcome its appreciated i am glad there is someone here who has a similar opinion as me on certain subjects

i wish there was an adult section so i could bring up different topics for discussion but as this is seen by people of all ages they would deem inapropriate for alot of users so i will keep them for other forums hahaha

i will conduct my points of view without swearing or picking on people and will remind people i dont mean to offend so not to get carded although i may be bad repped for my beliefs it doesnt phase me lol i am entitled to believe what i want and so is everyone else on this site

[sandyr]

Really I agree with most points of view.
Just remember everyone is a human being with good bits and bad bits. And in most civilized Countries it is not the Police Department who makes the decision on who stays or goes....it is a Civilian/Public Commission who reviewes each file individually, and they have the final say. I can assure that 'the vast majority of Police Officers are the very first to get rid of 'Dirty Cops'. Perhaps times have changed...No minimum heights/ weights/ education etc. etc...and so has our tolerences for certain things....
And remember what Sir Robert Peel, the first Commissioner of the Police of the Metropolis (London Metropolitan Police) said in 1829......'The Police are the Public and the Public are the Police'......One can take that in many different contexts.

[GetWithTheTimes]

Really I agree with most points of view.
Just remember everyone is a human being with good bits and bad bits. And in most civilized Countries it is not the Police Department who makes the decision on who stays or goes....it is a Civilian/Public Commission who reviewes each file individually, and they have the final say. I can assure that 'the vast majority of Police Officers are the very first to get rid of 'Dirty Cops'. Perhaps times have changed...No minimum heights/ weights/ education etc. etc...and so has our tolerences for certain things....
And remember what Sir Robert Peel, the first Commissioner of the Police of the Metropolis (London Metropolitan Police) said in 1829......'The Police are the Public and the Public are the Police'......One can take that in many different contexts.

what an officer writes up in a report has a lot to do with it also and it is highly unlikely an officers word will be questioned when a criminal disagrees with the report

[sandyr]

Yes I agree, but that is why we, again in this civilized part of the World, have Courts, Juries, Lawyers etc. etc. and some say 'ad nauseam/nauseum.....
Everyone deserves a defence...and of course ...A person is presumed Innocent until Proven Guilty. Yes there are glitches in the system....But Remember...We are Only Human Beings, and have the best system in the World.... 'Be thankful for small mercies'....Was taught that growing up in Caithness!

[hotrod4]

2 wrongs dont make a right, but simple minded folk on here always choose to disagree with those who speak sense. fact of the org, watch for the bad reppers though they out in droves.[lol]
Yes and you should know as you bad repped me for the staffie thread because I chose to disagree with you.(A bit corrupt if you ask me for a moral guardian);)
Back to the thread:
Coppers that commit serious crimes deserve the book thrown at them,but if it something trivial then whats the problem? We are not all angels,I dont have a Criminal record at all but I admit to doing things in the past,does that make me a bad person now? No it doesnt It measn I have learned from my mistakes and moved on.

[percy toboggan]

All I can say is "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" none of us are totally innocent are we?

Well, I'm not Golach but I've always considered you a cut above ;):lol:

[piratelassie]

Get With the Times....I agree with what you say....corruption all along the line, or is it the hand-shake ?

[golach]

Well, I'm not Golach but I've always considered you a cut above ;):lol:
Thank you for those few kind words, I wish more thought of me as you do :lol:

[catran]

I am sure there are Doctors,Lawyers, Brain Surgeons,Priests out there who have convictions but does that make them any worse at their job- NO!
It makes them Human like the rest of us, well I m Human anyway!!![lol]

Lordies, what are we coming too, appears to be a lot of criminals writing on Caithness.org these days. Never mind all the polis, doctors, lawyers ect what about the thousands of social workers?????? A good owld wifie lifted of the street could do a better job. Where are the gra ndads and grannies and aunties and things? Used to be one social worker for Caithness and sutherland in the 1950s and I bet she did not earn a fortune.......... .....but did a much better job no doubt than all this fancy jobs that they are all running around doing at film stars wages with no results.....Even the Pulteney project which is quite good with all their staff helping girlies to make mince and tatties, where is the logic?????? Where are their mammies????????? So I reckon its the same in every so called profession nowadays look after one's own interest B gthe rest as long as I am alright son therefore one should not condone the antics of the polis altogether they are just the same as the rest of the whatever.................To be a nurse nowadays one has to have a degree, where is the logic??? Where are all the old nursies who were stupid at the school but made excellent nurses????? Could tell a tale or two about the bairn whether it needed a doctor or not, no having to run to raigmore if it coughs wrong.......thus eliminating precious time and space for serious ill patients.[lol]

Sorry for the saga but we definitely need to go back a generation or two and me, I am still working away at a humdrum every day non corrupt job no degrees so no corruption..and believe it or not I am not a binman....

[GetWithTheTimes]

it goes all across the board as you say social workers are pretty messed up i was in care and after i left and was in pubs and at parties i seen so called social workers that were doing the very substances they were telling the kids to stay away from the very substances they put kids into care for

my point of view probably wont be taken seriously as i admitted i was no angel when i was younger so there for a lot of people will look at my point of view as that of a scolded tearaway criminal when in fact i do not disagree with jail time or the care i was put in when younger, i disagree with the people who enforce these punishments on people doing the same things themselves

if i named certain social workers i knew were involved with drugs or wild parties or certain teachers who had taken drugs you would all be outraged, but for some stupid reason the majority here so far refuses to believe the police are bad in any way shape or form, the amount of people who have said wow the police have a speeding ticket are from what i can see the least sensible people on this thread as if they read the actual article from top to bottom instead of just throwing their 2 pennies worth in they would see the crimes had a wider range than speeding, in fact 19% not stated is enough to make you worry and the "other" section of the crimes, people seem to be blind to what goes on in this world, as long as they have their house and their job and they are following what they are told to do everything will be alright when in fact for the world to change there has to be a lot of changes but it will never happen because to many millionaires and business men/women will lose out, one of the major changes could help extremely well at ending hunger and de-forrestation but no the government wont allow this change to happen as so many bankers and tree cutting companies and pharmacutical companies would all lose out on money and they pay so much taxes and line so many pockets they wouldn't allow that change to happen even tho it would save people and the planet in so many ways

all it takes is a bit of an open mind and a bit of research and you can obviously see the governments cover ups and the obvious and most reasonable solutions to the problems and see that the governments have twisted the truth to have you believe the lies they want you to believe so they can do what they want, they don't have to fool everyone just 51% (probably not even that many as some of the other lies they told and things they could have done to help and haven't leads me to believe they are dishonest to the extreme and could easily fiddle votes, we wouldn't be any the wiser, and as i have seen here people wouldn't accept the fact their government would do such a thing) and i am sure that more than that amount of the people in the planet either don't care what is going on and just believe any bull they are told or know what is going on but don't bother to realise something can be done about it they just assume nothing will ever change and give up

if people could wake up and open their eyes to what is happening and see the solutions that we are being denied which could help so much and fight for them we would see change as the government can silently deal with the small number of activists and protesters but if we all protested to get things changed they would have to change them as they couldn't jail us all for fighting for what we want its the silent majority who couldn't care less as long as they got money for skinandi's at the weekend and who vote for the sake of it but know nothing of politics or the people who are being elected that are dooming this country and on the bigger picture the world as it doesn't just go for this country a lot of other countries are making the world a worse place also

[butterfly]

There is no-one in life who can say they have NEVER EVER done anything wrong.We have all done something though some will have done worse than others.Nicking a Towel from a hotel is theft technically,so is taking someones pen!!!!:lol:
I just cant stand people getting on their pedastool looking down their noses at society thinking they are without sin and are the moral guardians of society.
The truth is we all have skeletons in our cupboard it just depends if you open the door and have a look every now and again!!!![lol]

well said Hotrod.You make a lot of sense!

[hotrod4]

well said Hotrod.You make a lot of sense!
SSHHHHH Dont tell everyone they will think I have "corrupted" you!!![lol]

[GetWithTheTimes]

SSHHHHH Dont tell everyone they will think I have "corrupted" you!!![lol]

grow up! and i am probably saying this to someone older than me which is sad :roll:

[Gene Hunt]

I was going to post something along the lines of Hotrod's comments. Then I figured that with my username it might not be taken seriously .. ;)

[butterfly]

grow up! and i am probably saying this to someone older than me which is sad :roll:


Why dont you practice what you preach,just because people have a different opinion to your own ,theres no need to throw your rattle out your pram.Accept that not everyone has the same view as yourself and move on.

[MasterSplinter]

oooooooooooooooooooppppssss:eek: did i arrive at the wrong time

[Bazeye]

Can anybody join in this argument?

[Gizmo]

The Boy Scouts are also a large organised gang, with branches in every country.

Are they, by default, "corrupt from the ground (sheet) level up" too?

:roll:

So is the Catholic Church, and there's nothing corrupt going on in the Catholic Church is there then! ;)