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Should Mr Brown our venerable PM who has brought this country to its financial knees keep his bonuses and all his increaed pension rights?
Mr Brown is expecting other people to amend their working agreements - does this apply to him too or is he going to come out of being PM covered in glory with the usual huge payoff, golden handshake, fantastic pension and a new multi million pound job in line too?
You replies eagerly awaited but unable to view replies for next 2 weeks as not going to be near a computer.
Should Mr Brown our venerable PM who has brought this country to its financial knees keep his bonuses and all his increaed pension rights?
Mr Brown is expecting other people to amend their working agreements - does this apply to him too or is he going to come out of being PM covered in glory with the usual huge payoff, golden handshake, fantastic pension and a new multi million pound job in line too?
You replies eagerly awaited but unable to view replies for next 2 weeks as not going to be near a computer.
To be fair about current financial difficultys and the recession facing the uk isnt Gordon browns fault its a global problem it wouldnt have mattered what prime minister or party is in government it just the way things have turned out.
It wont be the first time this has happened and it wont be the last
Should Mr Brown our venerable PM who has brought this country to its financial knees keep his bonuses and all his increaed pension rights?
You replies eagerly awaited but unable to view replies for next 2 weeks as not going to be near a computer.
When you return, could you please outline what the PM's 'bonuses and his increased pension rights' actually are?
When I get a better picture then I will give my opinion.
Should Mr Brown our venerable PM who has brought this country to its financial knees keep his bonuses and all his increased pension rights.
I don't think that the current credit crisis has any thing to do with our Prime Minister, its all to do with the Fat Cat financiers of the banking world.
Melancholy Man
27-Feb-09, 21:00
I don't think that the current credit crisis has any thing to do with our Prime Minister, its all to do with the Fat Cat financiers of the banking world.
I don't think it's necessarily fair to blame an incumbent Prime Minister if a sudden financial storm appears. We should be more interested in blaming whomever was Chancellor of the Exchequer for the preceding decade as the nation's finances were built on sand... name's on the tip of my tongue.
We should be more interested in blaming whomever was Chancellor of the Exchequer for the preceding decade as the nation's finances were built on sand... name's on the tip of my tongue.
Ehhm, since when does the Chancellor of the UK Exchequer have an influence on the Global economy?
Melancholy Man
27-Feb-09, 21:05
Ehhm, since when does the Chancellor of the UK Exchequer have an influence on the Global economy?
This is a joke, right?
This is a joke, right?
ehhhh No.....
Melancholy Man
27-Feb-09, 21:13
ehhhh No.....
Okay, then, Vince Cable and Will Hutton had less influence, but it's clear they acted largely as Cassandras over said decade. Maybe Brown bears some responsibility for allowing the state of affairs to come to pass.
Okay, then, Vince Cable and Will Hutton had less influence, but it's clear they acted largely as Cassandras over said decade. Maybe Brown bears some responsibility for allowing the state of affairs to come to pass.
Sorry I disagree, the Fred Goodwins and their ilk, the greedy fat cats are to blame, not Gordon Brown
Melancholy Man
27-Feb-09, 21:21
Sorry I disagree, the Fred Goodwins and their ilk, the greedy fat cats are to blame, not Gordon Brown
Anyone in a similar position of political clout who, in 2004, said of Lehman Brothers:
{...}
Lehman Brothers is a great company today that can both look backwards with pride and look forwards with hope.
And in wishing Lehman Brothers the success it deserves for its future let me thank you for the privilege of being here and formally declare this new building open. (http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/speech_chex_050404.htm)... is a facilitator for their ilk
MM your skill at cherry picking are far superior to mine, so I will with draw from this thread now.
Anyone in a similar position of political clout who, in 2004, said of Lehman Brothers:
... is a facilitator for their ilk
Wow, what a sucker punch. Lmao.
Since when did Gordon Brown become the catalyst for the western world's financial crisis? Oh, damn, next we'll find out it was him on the grassy knoll and that he and not Zola Bud, tripped Mary Decker.[lol]
Since when did Gordon Brown become the catalyst for the western world's financial crisis? Oh, damn, next we'll find out it was him on the grassy knoll and that he and not Zola Bud, tripped Mary Decker.[lol]
Luckily we found out who killed JR!!! :roll:
Melancholy Man
27-Feb-09, 21:41
MM your skill at cherry picking is far superior to mine, so I will with draw from this thread now.
It's hardly cherry picking when I observe that he laid the ground for the house on sand which was the British "financial service sector", sold off our gold reserves and all that jazz! With a link to his Government's *own* transcripts. He's doing a relatively good job at untangling the state he got the nation's coffers into.
<starts making disgusting panting noises at Joxie's avatar>
as this problem is worldwide you cant really blame gordon brown.
Gordon brown can't be blamed for the world crisis but he is totally to blame previously as chancellor for selling off cheaply our gold reserves and the increasing number on benefits etc which is not helping matters.
Gordon brown can't be blamed for the world crisis but he is totally to blame previously as chancellor for selling off cheaply our gold reserves and the increasing number on benefits etc which is not helping matters.In hindsight he would not have sold the gold but then he wasn't as clued up as you. You must be the Prime Minister of somewhere seeing as you have all the answers. Maybe you could solve the worlds finacial problems? Damn, are you the new messiah, I've been looking for you?
The Oracle
28-Feb-09, 00:41
Gordon brown can't be blamed for the world crisis but he is totally to blame previously as chancellor for selling off cheaply our gold reserves and the increasing number on benefits etc which is not helping matters.
Anyone taking bets that if the Tories get in, the State owned shares in these banks will be sold off cheaply to their cronies, in 'the public interest' ?
In hindsight he would not have sold the gold but then he wasn't as clued up as you. You must be the Prime Minister of somewhere seeing as you have all the answers. Maybe you could solve the worlds finacial problems? Damn, are you the new messiah, I've been looking for you?
No, he's not the Messiah-he's a very naughty boy. [lol]
Anyone taking bets that if the Tories get in, the State owned shares in these banks will be sold off cheaply to their cronies, in 'the public interest' ?
Not if when !!
Really dont think any thing will be cheap in the near future Banks or anything in every day life we soldier on doing what we can to the best we can
Melancholy Man
28-Feb-09, 01:10
In hindsight he would not have sold the gold but then he wasn't as clued up as you. You must be the Prime Minister of somewhere seeing as you have all the answers. Maybe you could solve the worlds finacial problems? Damn, are you the new messiah, I've been looking for you?
This tactic's so old it has a book in the Bible named after it. I am neither Prime Minister nor Chancellor. He has been both. Hansard is littered with Vince Cable tabling questions, and more and more reports are coming out that regulators and ombudsmen *were* warning of the bubble.
Conclusion? He was warned.
This tactic's so old it has a book in the Bible named after it. I am neither Prime Minister nor Chancellor. He has been both. Hansard is littered with Vince Cable tabling questions, and more and more reports are coming out that regulators and ombudsmen *were* warning of the bubble.
Conclusion? He was warned.If I was referring to you then it would be relevant but I wasn't. I was referring to the Barrack lawyer, not you.;)
Melancholy Man
28-Feb-09, 01:28
That's made me look like a Parus major
That's made me look like a Parus majorThere was a sibling of yours in that cinematic wonder, "everything you always wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask".
Brown is simply resorting to that saying famous in all Scottish schools, "It was nae me!"
The FSA, who were put in place by Brown supposedly to ensure the banks did not get into the situation they did, were given orders which amounted to "Don't look too closely, look the other way". In other words the Regulatory Body was not only told not to regulate but were never given the tools to allow them to regulate.
The FSA were certainly aware and warned HBOS in 2004 and 2006 that they were overextended to a dangerous level but either could not, or did not, do anything to rein them in.
The Bank of England, which originally had the power to regulate the banks, had that power removed by Brown. Brown was warned, I believe by Eddie George, about the timing of his selling the Gold Reserves being totally wrong but he ignored the advice and sold anyway.
The stripping from the Bank of England, operating under the instructions of Parliament, of it’s overall control of the Banking System by Brown, who the split that up between the BofE, the FSA and the Treasury meant all three were busy watching their own little bit of the system but nobody had a complete and detailed picture of what was going on. That had to be a recipe for disaster.
Oh, and all those greedy bankers who are supposedly the only people to blame for this? Just look how many of them have been given Honours, Knighthoods and Peerages whilst Brown was Chancellor and how many of them either are or have been advisors to Brown or have been included in Brown’s Government from their places, given by either him or Blair, in the House of Lords.
As for Fred the Shred, former head of RBS/NatWest, how did he end up with such a massive pension? Well, Lord Myners, a former Director of NatWest and now Financial Services Secretary to the Treasury and appointed to that position by Brown, was sent to “persuade” Sir Fred to go. The quickest and quietest way to get him to stand down was no to get involved in a messy sacking but to “convince” him that early retirement on pension would be a good idea. That was quietly done and off he went.
We are now told that Brown’s appointee Lord Myners, a former Bank Director himself and with all the legal assistance of the Treasury behind him, simply happened not to notice the details of Sir Fred’s pension when he happily agreed to it.
Of course he did. It’s an Every Day Story of Treasury Folk. And how did all the fuss start about his pension? It just happened to be leaked by the Treasury the day before yet another horror story about the Financial System was being announced.
But how that conveniently happened is quite another story.
If the current disaster is "Global" and Brown had no hand in it does that mean that all the good times in our Economy during the last decade were as a result of "Global" economic success and Brown's handling of the Economy had nothing to do with it?
Mr or Mrs or Ms Jaws - thank God for an unbiased slant on the failings of the good Mr Brown - Saviour of the World.
brokencross
28-Feb-09, 09:03
May not be Browns "fault" per se, but he is complict in many ways by some of his actions and moreso by his inaction after ignoring the warning signs.
Kevin Milkins
28-Feb-09, 11:38
Luckily we found out who killed JR!!! :roll:
Did we? I missed that.
Damm I must have been having a shower when that happened.;)
The people of this country need to stop looking for a scapegoat for the mess this country's economy is in, it's not the fault of Gordon Brown or Fred Goodwin etc, it's the fault of the whole financial system and the thousands of people in charge of it, not a particular individual or company, the media led mob rule looking for a scapegoat is just typical of this country though, and it's all a bit pathetic really.
Is this the same Gordon Brown who is on record as saying "due to my prudence when Chanchellor the UK is in a much better position to weather the financial storm than any other country". All the financial experts (including me) agree that the opposite is true.
The man is running around like a headless chicken and the sooner he falls on his sword (or is pushed) the better for all of us
Well if Mr Brown didn't know anything about the future crisis, who did? (Apart from Vince Cable, who seems to have known for ages.) If he's got all these civil servants and 'experts' advising him, why was he unaware of the mess we were in/going to be in? Why did he sell off all the family silver to pay for his little schemes? Isn't it his job to know this stuff?
I'm not an economist. I thought the people inhabiting the Houses Of Parliament were there to protect our interests, not line their own pockets and ingratiate themselves with the bigwigs. How naive am I?
We're all doooomed............:(
In hindsight he would not have sold the gold but then he wasn't as clued up as you. You must be the Prime Minister of somewhere seeing as you have all the answers. Maybe you could solve the worlds finacial problems? Damn, are you the new messiah, I've been looking for you?
I'm not the Prime Minister of anywhere nor do I have the answers any more than you do and neither am I as rude as you.
Mr or Mrs or Ms Jaws - thank God for an unbiased slant on the failings of the good Mr Brown - Saviour of the World.Unbiased? Me? I must have been having an off-day. ;)
The people of this country need to stop looking for a scapegoat for the mess this country's economy is in, it's not the fault of Gordon Brown or Fred Goodwin etc, it's the fault of the whole financial system and the thousands of people in charge of it, not a particular individual or company, the media led mob rule looking for a scapegoat is just typical of this country though, and it's all a bit pathetic really.In Brown's case that does not wash. Prior to being PM he was Chancellor of the Exchequer and was therefore in overall charge of the financial system of the Country.
When things were going well he was only too ready to claim all the credit, there was no mention of there being anything Global being involved at all. If his giant intellect was responsible for the feel good factor of constantly increasing wealth, which we all now know was nothing more than smoke and mirrors, then he cannot simply shrug and hide from the consequences when he had presided over things going dramatically wrong.
In January Brown made this statement, "As I said in Harvard ten years ago, we need an early warning system so that international financial flows are properly monitored."
In otherwords he claims he knew the system of control was unsatisfactory during the whole of the time he was Chancellor and, whilst he could not control what was happening in other Countries, he could certainly have prevented British Banks from joining in. It was in fact it was his responsibility to do exactly that for the sake of the nation.
By his own admission he knew and he knowingly did nothing and that is unforgivable.
kmahon2001
02-Mar-09, 10:41
The people of this country need to stop looking for a scapegoat for the mess this country's economy is in, it's not the fault of Gordon Brown or Fred Goodwin etc, it's the fault of the whole financial system and the thousands of people in charge of it, not a particular individual or company, the media led mob rule looking for a scapegoat is just typical of this country though, and it's all a bit pathetic really.
At last, the voice of sanity! We should stop worrying about whose fault it is and get the mess sorted out first. Recriminations can wait. If the people of this country feel Gordon Brown is to blame, they can oust him at the next election.
......Just think how much better off the country will be with George Osborne as Chancellor :eek:
Oh dear we're doomed. :(
Melancholy Man
02-Mar-09, 12:30
I remember once serving a chap in an Edinburgh bookshop. He looked up and said, apropos of nothing, I was at university with Gordon Brown; true he thought of himself as a radical, but he was just a ~*naughty word*~.
Okay, now we've thrashed Brown, can we move onto Salmond and all the delight he was taking in R.B.S. and H.B.o.S. despite not having a scooby and no authority, just pocket-money from Westminster?
OK with me - Salmond is another snout in trough parasite - the only good thing about him is that he just may be anti New Liebour
Melancholy Man
02-Mar-09, 16:28
On the contrary, he's as Blairite as they come: cult of personality, style over substance, centralised power-control.
Another point to consider is that over the past six/eight years, the mainstream media and soi disant radical left has been obsessing over wars they've barely made a dent in and near hysterical demands for resignations/apologies. Just think what could have been done if they'd paid a teeny-weeny bit of attention to that brainy Mr. V. Cable.
brokencross
03-Mar-09, 08:37
Prior to being PM he was Chancellor of the Exchequer and was therefore in overall charge of the financial system of the Country.
When things were going well he was only too ready to claim all the credit, there was no mention of there being anything Global being involved at all. If his giant intellect was responsible for the feel good factor of constantly increasing wealth, which we all now know was nothing more than smoke and mirrors, then he cannot simply shrug and hide from the consequences when he had presided over things going dramatically wrong.
The cats away so the mice playing. Could there be a split in the ranks away from Brown's Global blame game.
Alistair Darling the now Chancellor and Ed Balls who was a Treasurey Minister and advisor during Gordon Brown's Chancellorship seem to be acknowledging there were failings
in the way the financial services were monitored and regulated.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hhLou9frsrzFq06-prscEhjLiHBQ
OK, they are not actually taking the blame or saying sorry as such. However in political speak trotting out the "there are a lot of lessons to be learnt" and "there are some very hard questions to be asked" mantras, simply means we got it wrong big style but we ain't going to say so!
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