Reiss sand dunes

[shatter]

Yes time all the sand extraction is put to a stop.

[gleeber]

Why?:confused

[ShelleyCowie]

I read about that in the paper. (first time i have bought a news paper in...well ever) and i think it should be brought to a stop if it is making the dunes dangerous.

Kids play on them dunes and yes they could collapse easily and injure someone. or worse.

[Kevin Milkins]

I also read about it in the Groat and thought it looked a bit dodgy.

I go to Reiss beech most days but have never gone that far up.

Is it much further up than the river.?

[gleeber]

I havnt read the story but if it's dangerous where are the health and safety executive to enforce whatever measures are required to make it safe?

[Liz]

I also read about it in the Groat and thought it looked a bit dodgy.

I go to Reiss beech most days but have never gone that far up.

Is it much further up than the river.?

Kevin it will be a bit past the river but not sure just how far.That wasn't a very good answer was it?!:lol:

I don't walk that far either so have never see the area in question but I agree that this excavation should be stopped.
How do they monitor how much sand is taken anyway?

[Tugmistress]

For those of us that don't buy a paper would someone enlighten me as to what you are on about please?

[ShelleyCowie]

For those of us that don't buy a paper would someone enlighten me as to what you are on about please?

Tuggs, a certain contractor (will not name on here) had been entitled to excavate 2000 tonnes of sand a year. That permission ended 2 years ago but has still been excavating sand.

The dunes now have an over-hang and cracks which are dangerous.

About the permission of the sand being excavated by the company, this is being looked into.

[Tugmistress]

Thanks Shelley, I've not been on that beach for probably over a year now so not sure where this will be happening along there, but if i remember rightly the dunes are similar to dunnet where they have grasses growing on them and holding them together so they don't just collapse instantly, it'll take time and weather for them to collapse with the root systems being there.
i would imagine if permission was given for a certain amount of time and removal then it would have to be reviewed, not just automatically granted, or i would hope so!
hope the contractor realises what damage he is causing by leaving them undermined and the possibilites that could happen.

[joxville]

Shouldn't this coastal news be in a sandpaper? [lol]

[ShelleyCowie]

Shouldn't this coastal news be in a sandpaper? [lol]

Oh my goodness Jox aint u well on the ball today. :lol:

[brokencross]

The story under debate (courtesy of JOG)
http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/6175/Storm_brewing_over_sand_extraction_at_Reiss.html

[gleeber]

What a farce. How come the contractor got away with it for so long? I'm sure the council will halt excavations immediately and the contracter needs to make the area safe. Further discussions need to be made with interested parties because Reiss sand is an integral material of the Caithness building trade.
The environmentalists will have a strong case but maybe theres a case for a more hands on method of sand extraction at Reiss?

[ShelleyCowie]

I may be guity of taking sand, i took some home on my shoe one day.

It wasna my fault...honestly. my shoe was wet and it just stuck to it. Sorry! :~(

[scorpion]

" A more hands on method " ,does that mean you`re planning going with your bucket and spade gleeber ?

[rainbow]

If you go along the beach from the Reiss Golf Club then you will have to go across the river and go towards Keiss. If you want to keep your feet dry you will have to go down the Stain Road (about 1 mile south of Keiss) and walk towards the Wester River and SubSea 7.
Basically the area is the Keiss side of Wester River.
About time it was stopped - removal of the sand dunes will ahve a knock on effect else where and may take years and years to reestablish.

[butterfly]

What a farce. How come the contractor got away with it for so long? I'm sure the council will halt excavations immediately and the contracter needs to make the area safe. Further discussions need to be made with interested parties because Reiss sand is an integral material of the Caithness building trade.
The environmentalists will have a strong case but maybe theres a case for a more hands on method of sand extraction at Reiss?

good question gleeber,how did the contractor get away with it for so long?:roll:

[annemarie482]

http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=db6f2b145784c0a9e7dbf896388 502a5&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=28 I think something major that people are missing here is that the owners of the sand quarry were never contacted regarding the issue of Mr and Mrs Place's concerns.so how were they expected to rectify them?

Mr and Mrs Place did not even find out the quarry was privately owned and not state or John Gunn & Sons owned until after the first newspaper article.

Contrary to common belief: the quarry is NOT OWNED by John Gunn & Sons.

In the current credit crisis when many of us can relate to job loss, why try to shut down a quarry which has operated accident free for over 40 years?

A quarry that supplies nearly all the already struggling local building firms and other local firms with quality building sand to build our homes and business'.

Investigation has shown that the nearest place with the same quality and quantity of building sand is Glasgow, so if we shut the Keiss quarry what happens?... More lorries on the roads, more expense on sand and increased cost to the Caithness building trade and people building new homes (myself included).

Why not accept the compromise and put up safety barriers and warning signs, protecting public and industry?

Having contacted the SSSI, the SSSI have already stated they are not looking for a habitat there and that it is too close to the subsea site to be registered as a site of special scientific interest.
for that to become an sssi the area would need to be closed to EVERTHING for 40 years. so what then..close the subsea site too?!

Something else that has failed to be mentioned is that a bird habitat was put in place over 20 years ago to compensate for any damage to wildlife caused by excavation.

I ask people just to take a moment and think before signing something they maybe don't fully understand.

This shouldn't be a personal slanging match but a carefully considered approach where the safety of public and industry may continue.

Petitions are all over Caithness to keep this much valued quarry open, I urge people to sign it. Thank you.

Concerned Keiss resident with 2 young children.

[BAND1T]

Ann-Marie.

I totally agree with your comments above. I imagine that Mr and Mrs Place are not from the local area and as such probably do not have a handle on exactly what the quarries bring to this area, its residents & its businesses.

I am also someone else who is just about to start building his own house in the Watten area and without the quarries I would be paying a lot more for my materials.

I agree that the quarry needs to be safe and not to have children or unauthorised personnell entering it. Therefore it should be barriered off and signs erected.

John Gunn & Sons has had permission in the past to extract materials from the Keiss site, if this is lapsed then it should be reinstated and that should be the end of the matter.

Caithness is a lovely area and I do agree that we should do as much as we can to protect it, but without business in the area there wont be anything to protect as nobody will be living here!

I hope that common sense with come out on this one!!

[annemarie482]

thank god someone realises the sand isn't just dug out to make a beach in gunns back garden!
where do people think the building blocks of their homes come from!

[annemarie482]

thank you. please write a letter to the planning office to keep this quarry open. all help is needed as people who do not understand are signing this petition.

[Doolally]

I'm sure if they employed a little common sense and took away the sand heading in the Keiss direction, rather than the water itself then everything would work out fine. However, I'd like to see some sand reinstated from where it was taken and some new grasses planted to stabilise the dunes before more is taken.

Why not also fence off the area to make sure kids or pets are safe when out for a walk along the dunes. Not that difficult is it?

[annemarie482]

thank you, thats the kind of common sense that is planned. solutions not closure. please sign the petition to keep this open

[Rozzer]

http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=db6f2b145784c0a9e7dbf896388 502a5&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=28

This shouldn't be a personal slanging match but a carefully considered approach where the safety of public and industry may continue.

Petitions are all over Caithness to keep this much valued quarry open, I urge people to sign it. Thank you.

Concerned Keiss resident with 2 young children.

I think as you are the owner's daughter-in-law to-be that you have a major interest in this debate and are not just a concerned Keiss resident :lol:!!

[annemarie482]

it concerns me in that its a personal attack on my in-laws,the fact im building a house also my sister works for one of these struggling building firms, and the paper does not provide all sides.
only trying to keep it fair. you can't deny that.
i've played on those dunes all my life as have many others.

[exweeker]

can anybody tell me how a overhang in a sand quarry can bury anybody or thing for that matter. the first gale of wind or the first shower or rain and it rolls down to find its own level and wont even fill your wellie boots. but what realy shocks me with this thread is the amount of people that jump in and try and close a mans buisness down and dont even know where reise beach is.and ill bet you a pound to a penny that the house they are sitting in all cosy with nothing else better to do but jump on anything that moves on here was built with sand from reise beach.

annemarie you have scored a goal here well no 2 goals first you have taken a lurker out of the woodwork and how dare you get married to a wealthy man did rozzer get the knock back

annemarie you wont need a petition because where do the council get their sand from in a round about way from their and have done for 60/70 yrs

the security fences should be erected on the ord to keep people that have nothing better to do but complain oot. you have more chance of hurting yourself walking along the path by the sea towards the quary by slipping on the dogs dirt left by the complainents dogs

[annemarie482]

thanks for your support. its much appreciated.
just trying to raise awareness of all who will be affected. :)

[Allsorts]

Am I being really thick but where does it say they are trying to close the quarry, they just want them to stop the taking of the sand. Sorry if I am being thick but quarry must do more than just take sand.

[annemarie482]

how can you have over hanging sand,:confused

[annemarie482]

As far as im aware, you can not have over hanging sand dunes, so the dunes are safe,allways have been, if you want to build houses in the county the sand has to come from some where, is it not better it comes from a place that is open, rather to open a new sand quarry.?

[annemarie482]

If the stop removing the sand the quarry has no use.

[annemarie482]

they want to stop gunn getting the planning permission and any future planning for the quarry.

[annemarie482]

there's rules. there is no reason why the quarry cannot stay open, with a responsible contractor.

[Fly]

Someone has forgotten to say that the contractor's planning permission to remove sand expired 2 years ago but he conveniently forgot that. Neither did he restore the dunes by replanting grass as apparently was part of his contract. For those reasons alone he should not be given retrospective planning permission. I am quite sure there are plenty of other places where sand can be easily obtained without further damage to the coastline at Sinclair's bay.[disgust]
Incidentally, Mrs Place has been associated with Keiss for many years.

[annemarie482]

i am not defending the contractor, but the quarry. the quarry gets returned to pervious state ie. grass to catch sand etc when quarrying finished. caithness needs this quarry and as i stated the page before the nearest building sand of that quality and quantity is galsgow. taking the relivent safety measures ie fence and signs, could keep this quarry open for the local benifit.

[annemarie482]

mrs place i know is connected to keiss she also taught me.
i have no problem with her, just the approach that has been taken. we need solutions to make safer not closure.

[Doolally]

As far as im aware, you can not have over hanging sand dunes, so the dunes are safe,allways have been, if you want to build houses in the county the sand has to come from some where, is it not better it comes from a place that is open, rather to open a new sand quarry.?

You can have over hanging sand dunes, as I'm sure your aware. The grasses hold the top together and the sand is taken from below. Should the top give way with someone on it then the whole lot falls in and can be very dangerous.

The dunes are not safe as they are and should never have been allowed to get in the state that they're in.

I can understand why people are upset about the continued sand removal outwith the previously agreed planning application. It should not be allowed to happen and the council and public have a right safe beaches.

However, things can be rectified, made safe and fenced off to allow continued extraction of the sand providing that this time, the contractor is monitored to ensure the upkeep of his side of the bargain - something that he didn't do last time.

[annemarie482]

i totally agree.
change of running not shut it down.
if only others could see what the quarry supplys. i really don't think people know what the sand is used for. i can understand people signing the petition but only if they know what they are signing.
too many jump on the band wagon not knowing how many business will be affected.

[butterfly]

Someone has forgotten to say that the contractor's planning permission to remove sand expired 2 years ago but he conveniently forgot that. Neither did he restore the dunes by replanting grass as apparently was part of his contract. For those reasons alone he should not be given retrospective planning permission. I am quite sure there are plenty of other places where sand can be easily obtained without further damage to the coastline at Sinclair's bay.[disgust]
Incidentally, Mrs Place has been associated with Keiss for many years.

why didnt he apply for more planning permission and why didnt he replant the grasses,did he think no one would notice him breaking the rules.He wasnt to bothered about the quarry then.......[disgust]

[annemarie482]

true.
but why should the quarry shut so all the other companies suffer?
shouldnt someone else take over and be monitored?

[butterfly]

true.
but why should the quarry shut so all the other companies suffer?
shouldnt someone else take over and be monitored?

yes they should and perhaps this time the planning office could see to it that the rules are adhered to as well.

[Sunshine]

warning----Public beware as someone has put a petition in the shops in opposition to please save the sand dunes instead they have headed it please save our sand pit--it is so easy to sign without noticing it is the wrong one .I wonder how much money Annemarie will benifit if Guns are allowed to continue?As a matter of interest Carol Place is no stranger to Keiss her and her husband have been associated with Keiss for many many years.:(

[nellie]

I wonder why Annemarie has taken such an interest in the sand dunes?:lol:

[annemarie482]

you havent read all the posts.
i said mrs place used to teach me and have not said a bad word about her. its not my nature.
i assure you i've nothing personnally to do with the sand pit and most defiately do not profit from it so that comment is unfair.
it is only right to offer 2 sides of a story so why shouldn't there be an opition for those who want the quarry to stay?

[annemarie482]

sunshine, your standing up for what you believe, thats good. but so am i. why should i be wrong for that. someone's got to see the economical effects.

[annemarie482]

im not a newbie.
just changed my name.

[annemarie482]

your thinking to hard. its my real name.
the others were nicknames from school.
i've said my piece now anyway.
made me feel better.
who's it hurting?

[annemarie482]

you can if you re-apply

[richman]

your thinking to hard. its my real name.
the others were nicknames from school.
i've said my piece now anyway.
made me feel better.
who's it hurting?
it 's hurtin e mannie ye think yer helpin . yer no doin him any good sittin on here an postin yer inocent guff . we 're thinkin he 's up til no good sendin his wee lassie oot til dae his fechtan when he 's lyin in e hoose laffin at ye,

[butterfly]

[quote=annemarie482;517757]
i have no problem with her, just the approach that has been taken.

whats wrong with Mr and Mrs Places approach?The way i read it they were just exposing the breech of planning permission and also the dangers of the overhang.The planning office never knew the contracters were breaking the rules until Mr and Mrs Place brought it to their attention.Shame on the planning office for not keeping an eye on things too.

[annemarie482]

i needed to let of steam.
anyway i'm off to feed the little one, it's pretty late.
night all :D

[richman]

ha ha , yer runnin away now ye 've been found out ???

[annemarie482]

butterfly- i wasn't being nasty just meant they could've told the land owners, of their concerns, before the paper thats all.

[butterfly]

i needed to let of steam.
anyway i'm off to feed the little one, it's pretty late.
night all :D


When the going gets tough.............make a run for it!

[annemarie482]

friday night bulling, got nothing better to do?
i dont want fights,.

[butterfly]

butterfly- i wasn't being nasty just meant they could've told the land owners, of their concerns, before the paper thats all.

They took it to the relevent authorities Annemarie and maybe thats all that matters in this case.You are right there is two sides to every story,so its unfair on the Places to be condemned for doing the right thing.

[Fly]

butterfly- i wasn't being nasty just meant they could've told the land owners, of their concerns, before the paper thats all.
To the best of my knowledge, the land owner was informed.

[butterfly]

To the best of my knowledge, the land owner was informed.

There you go Annemarie,2 sides to every story!

[Norah]

re: Annemarie482 "Im not a newbie. just changed my name."

Always suspicious of people who change names, either online or in real life, for no apparent reason.

In other fields of life if an operator did not have a licence to do a task which required licensing, they would be prosecuted and further applications for licensing would come under very close scrutiny.

Imagine driving a car without a driving licence for two years, or operating as a taxi without a private hire licence. If the police stopped you, do you think they would just ignore last two years illegal activities and let you carry on driving. Dont think so.

It usually follows that if a company is so lax that it "forgets" to renew such important things like statutory licences etc, then other "things" tend to get forgotten about i.e is the companies Public Liabilty insurance for excavating still in force if it is operating without a licence.

[butterfly]

Wow thats a good post Norah with some valid points in it too!

[Skerries]

http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=db6f2b145784c0a9e7dbf896388 502a5&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=28A quarry that supplies nearly all the already struggling local building firms and other local firms with quality building sand to build our homes and business'.

Investigation has shown that the nearest place with the same quality and quantity of building sand is Glasgow, so if we shut the Keiss quarry what happens?... More lorries on the roads, more expense on sand and increased cost to the Caithness building trade and people building new homes (myself included).
Petitions are all over Caithness to keep this much valued quarry open, I urge people to sign it. Thank you.

Concerned Keiss resident with 2 young children.

I think Gunn's have a sand and gravel quarry at Melvich, it's not exactly as far as Glasgow!? This issue has caused quite a stir :eek:

[annemarie482]

i agree totally about the contrators. no arguement there!
but i know for a fact they didn't contact the owners as they are my inlaws. just want people to know that, thats all.
also to help people understand who maybe don't know much sand in industry, sand comes in many different qualities which can be used for different purposes. thats why only certain quarries can supply for certain purposes. hope thats a help in explaining.

[butterfly]

What's the big deal about contacting the owners?It was an enviromental and public safety issue so the Places were right in taking it to the authorities who no doubt got in touch with the owners of the land.Hardly a big deal:roll:

[butterfly]

Someone has forgotten to say that the contractor's planning permission to remove sand expired 2 years ago but he conveniently forgot that. Neither did he restore the dunes by replanting grass as apparently was part of his contract. For those reasons alone he should not be given retrospective planning permission. I am quite sure there are plenty of other places where sand can be easily obtained without further damage to the coastline at Sinclair's bay.[disgust]
Incidentally, Mrs Place has been associated with Keiss for many years.

Good comment Fly,and if anybody had come to grief on those dunes she would still be bleating about the "personnel attack" on her in-laws-to be.

[Norah]

I note that on the front page of this weeks Journal there is an article about Reiss sand dunes.
In this article, the owner of the land stated that the damage to the site was not all caused by the contractor but also by "windblow".

This leads to the very obvious question of, if dunes are being affected by weather, should the contractor have ever been allowed to remove any sand at all?

This "own goal" statement makes any future application for a licence to be rejected.

[rainbow]

Well today I thought I would pay the dunes a visit and see what all the fuss was about. I used to live in Keiss and spent many a fun day on 'Moon Base'. I have now lived in Wick for years so when I go to the beach I usually visit the south side of the river Wester.
When I arrived at the sand dunes I could not believe the huge devastation there is. I could hardly believe the size of the area that had been removed and how the dunes have been ruined.
For the land owner to say that the damage has also been done by wind damage is absolute 'bull'. The quarrying has exposed the sand with no protection from the maram grass, this may have allowed the wind to have some impact, but the quarrying of the sand was the initial instigator.
What I object to is the council contacting agencies to see how they can restore the dunes surely Gunns should be paying for this, as they caused the damage - NOT my council tax.It will be a massive task, as it is not as easy as removing sand from elsewhere and replenishing the area, as the area where the sand will come from will be also affected by the removal. Interfering with nature in a fragile environment like the sand dunes is obviously going to cause devastation that may well never be able to be repaired.

[Fly]

Well today I thought I would pay the dunes a visit and see what all the fuss was about. I used to live in Keiss and spent many a fun day on 'Moon Base'. I have now lived in Wick for years so when I go to the beach I usually visit the south side of the river Wester.
When I arrived at the sand dunes I could not believe the huge devastation there is. I could hardly believe the size of the area that had been removed and how the dunes have been ruined.
For the land owner to say that the damage has also been done by wind damage is absolute 'bull'. The quarrying has exposed the sand with no protection from the maram grass, this may have allowed the wind to have some impact, but the quarrying of the sand was the initial instigator.
What I object to is the council contacting agencies to see how they can restore the dunes surely Gunns should be paying for this, as they caused the damage - NOT my council tax.It will be a massive task, as it is not as easy as removing sand from elsewhere and replenishing the area, as the area where the sand will come from will be also affected by the removal. Interfering with nature in a fragile environment like the sand dunes is obviously going to cause devastation that may well never be able to be repaired.

It was part of Gunn's original planning permission to replant the grass and restore the dunes, something they have conveniently forgot.

[Harray]

Just like the licence for removing sand that he forgot to renew.