View Full Version : Hypocrisy?/double standards
scrumpysteve
16-Feb-09, 02:53
Am I the only one who thinks it's hypocritical of the Org moderators to remove a thread about the lifeboat on Sunday, yet I am able to read all about it on the Org front page on the same day here --- http://www.caithness.org/ ?
Feel free to flame me or correct me :confused
It's the way of the org......
Posts get removed if someone thinks they might cause offense or distress.
Speculating about car crashes, lifeboat call outs causes posts to be removed.
Thats the rules I'm afraid.
I think the difference with this topic is that it is now "news", in the public domain on the bbc website.
I didn't see this particular post,, but just suppose someone knew some latebreaking news and posted it on here, perhaps before the police had time to notify relatives or interested parties. Not good finding matters out which might not even be true. Unfortunately Gossip hurts!
News from official sources...BBC etc., are usually cleared with the Authorities. You will see it explained on the site.
highlander
16-Feb-09, 09:18
Just how many times would you like to be told, it is one thing to be on the national news, its another when it concerns a local person. To what advantage is it to anyone to talk or gossip about the person gone missing, yes we can all express our distress to hear that someone has gone missing but try giving it some thought to the family who will be sitting waiting for the news! That is why any threads of this nature is removed.
I totally agree Highlander, but I do find it distasteful seeing pictures of the helicopter/lifeboat searching on the front page, pictures which appear to have been taken by a member of the public. Particularly when users have been chastised for posting on the subject.[disgust]
The rules should be for everyone. By all means, post a link to the news article, but aren't the photographs potential as hurtful as peoples opinions? I really feel there's no need for them.
Tugmistress
16-Feb-09, 10:22
sorry weeburd, i don't agree ...
The photo's are by the press officer for the thurso lifeboat .... i don't find it distasteful at all, it shows what a huge coordinated effort is being made to find the person that's missing. i know for a fact that loads of photo's have been taken of the search by various people including myself, (i have poosted them up as it is local news and that's what my website is about) are these people distateful? no i don't think so.
what's the difference between a national paper site and the front of the org? it's public domain news.
Hmmm yes, it seems ok to discuss the intimate details of the illness of a woman with cancer, and how often she has had cervical smears, but to ask why the lifeboat is out is deemed in bad taste.
Tugmistress
16-Feb-09, 10:44
I can't comment on what was removed as i didn't see it, but this is my own personal view on things ....
if the thread had asked why the lifeboat/helicopter was out and it was replied to that a search was ongoing for a missing person then why not leave it. if someone had later added 'well i heard it was so & so' then a nother reply saying 'nah, you're wrong it was such &such' then just remove the 'fishing' posts, but leave the factual ones up. we're a community, people are curious and want to know what's happening in their own community and i see nothing wrong in the facts being given.
Hmmm yes, it seems ok to discuss the intimate details of the illness of a woman with cancer, and how often she has had cervical smears, but to ask why the lifeboat is out is deemed in bad taste.
It IS in bad taste to gossip on a pulblic website about any incident involving the emergenecy services. We all know how arms and legs can be added to any story and until the agencies involved release a public statement, nobody should assume they know the ins and outs of the incident and post it on a public forum. It is heresay and gossip which as we have seen in the past, on this forum, can cause distress and legal issues.
As to the story of Jayne Goody, she herself chose to give HER story to the press. If it's public knowledge then its acceptable to discuss it on here.
sorry weeburd, i don't agree ...
The photo's are by the press officer for the thurso lifeboat .... i don't find it distasteful at all, it shows what a huge coordinated effort is being made to find the person that's missing. i know for a fact that loads of photo's have been taken of the search by various people including myself, (i have poosted them up as it is local news and that's what my website is about) are these people distateful? no i don't think so.
what's the difference between a national paper site and the front of the org? it's public domain news.
That's ok, Tugs, t'would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything!
I guess my point is that users are not permitted to put a post on regarding the search, as that's deemed as intrusive towards the family involved. However it's ok to put pictures of the search on the front page for all to see, including the family? I believe that is hypocritical. Just my humble opinion mind. ;)
Tugmistress
16-Feb-09, 10:53
That's ok, Tugs, t'would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything!
I guess my point is that users are not permitted to put a post on regarding the search, as that's deemed as intrusive towards the family involved. However it's ok to put pictures of the search on the front page for all to see, including the family? I believe that is hypocritical. Just my humble opinion mind. ;)
as i said in my other post, i don't know what was removed i didn't see it, i agree speculation and gossip can get out of hand, but as i see it facts are ok.
if folk on the org were allowed to post on such matters as missing person, car crashes and the such like it would end up being a huge game of chinese whispers. which in the long run would cause major distress and unecesary stress to the family.
I do find it distasteful that these photographs are on the front page of caithness.org, regardless of the source. If they are are taken to show the extent to which the emergency services have been mobilised then let them be shown at a later date but not while the search is in progress.
I agree that threads should be removed at times like these but also I think a broader editorial policy, to include consideration of images shown as news on the front page, should be put in place. You can read about it on the BBC site if you wish but that doesn't mean it has to be shown here.
When you have been on the receiving end of a post talking and gossiping about one of your family members who has died, you can then talk of hypocrisy. I can assure you it is not very pleasant to sit at your pc and discover yourself in this situation. It is incredibly upsetting.
Tugmistress
16-Feb-09, 11:58
gollach,
shall the emergency services put up a 'shield' around where they are searching so no one can see what is happening? you couldn't help but see them yesterday.
i think not, different circumstances may warrant a shield for a 'find' and i wholeheartedly agree with that.
different folks have different view points, i personally don't see a problem with what is in the public news domain, what is fact and also what has been put on the front of the org.
to me, the org is a localised newspaper with a forum where all sorts of topics are discussed. what is happening is news, and local at that. it's no different to a photographer taking a photo, it being published in a national paper of a news event that is on going. nothing has been said about the missing person, other than a search is on going for a missing person, there is no 'tittle tattle' and no malicious gossip.
i don't know about you, but most people i know, myself included, have a degree of curiosity about them. i'll tell you now there wont be a street in thurso where someone hasn't either wondered or asked why the helicopter and lifeboat where out.
as i say, facts are fine, pictures to illustrate these facts are fine too in my eyes.
Tugmistress
16-Feb-09, 12:02
When you have been on the receiving end of a post talking and gossiping about one of your family members who has died, you can then talk of hypocrisy. I can assure you it is not very pleasant to sit at your pc and discover yourself in this situation. It is incredibly upsetting.
unicorn, i can understand where you are coming from and i agree that gossip can be very damaging. in this instance though (again i reiterate i did not see the thread that was removed) i still say facts are fine, and as for the pictures they cannot be construed as gossip or whatever as it is a fact they were taken of an actual search for a missing person.
and before anyone jumps down my throat yes i do understand because i have been on the receiving end in another period of my life not up here.
I noticed that a thread was removed from the forum yesterday about an ongoing search involving the rescue services in Thurso. If such threads are fishing for information to settle idle curiosity or contains rumour that can affect either the outcome I can see a valid reason for its' removal. However, when I looked at the Org today, there pictures of the event in progress together with a link to the actual story.
I know that such threads have been removed in the past and indeed has caused a great deal of debate and indeed ill feeling on some peoples behalf. What I want to know is what is the difference between 'local news' on the forum and a link to a national story, after all the information for such stories must start somewhere. I am in full agreement that such threads contain identifiers of individuals or addressses involved then they must be removed but is it so wrong to start a thread that states that a lifeboat has been called out is so wrong.
ShelleyCowie
16-Feb-09, 13:40
http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=68364
;) Someone beat you to it! Lol!
I do not agree with having the search and rescue photographs appearing in the org's photo gallery, was that really necessary, the gallery is usually for happier things like the 'loo of the year award' and 'the maiden voyage of the Pentalina'.
By all means have the news and pictures on the front page and a link to the BBC website but having the photos of a search for a still missing woman included in the photo gallery is distasteful IMHO.
Tugmistress
16-Feb-09, 14:37
julia, i may be wrong but for the thumb nails to appear on the front page i am assuming the pics have to be in the gallery.
yes i know there are lots of 'happy' things in the gallery, but the gallery reflects caithness, good, bad or ugly. unfortunately life isn't a bed of roses and what has happened is a sad but true fact of life. you are not seeing anything untoward in the pictures, so i really don't see what it is distasteful.
I suppose what I meant was that it would just be a constant reminder having the photos in the gallery, for her family and friends. I understand what you mean though too.
scrumpysteve
16-Feb-09, 15:26
julia, i may be wrong but for the thumb nails to appear on the front page i am assuming the pics have to be in the gallery.
yes i know there are lots of 'happy' things in the gallery, but the gallery reflects caithness, good, bad or ugly. unfortunately life isn't a bed of roses and what has happened is a sad but true fact of life. you are not seeing anything untoward in the pictures, so i really don't see what it is distasteful.
I agree with you here, there was nothing distasteful in the pictures. And you are right in saying that the org is like a local newspaper,but human nature allows us to be inquisitive into why the emergency services are being mobilised. The Groat is weekly, the org is instant, well nearly, and I like to keep up to date with what's happening. Local and worldwide. For interest and curiosity, not for malicious gossip mongering. Though I agree it can hurt some people when they see such a thread and know the person involved, we can't hide from it.
It (closing threads like that) reminds me of when I was a kid and was protected from the 'bad' things in life by my so called betters and elders.
Though I agree it can hurt some people when they see such a thread and know the person involved, we can't hide from it.
It (closing threads like that) reminds me of when I was a kid and was protected from the 'bad' things in life by my so called betters and elders.
Sadly in the past, a few of these "Fishing threads", have turned very nasty and our Admin made the decision that is was better to stop these type of threads asap, for my own point of view, what ever the Admin try to do, they are damned if they do and they are damned if they don't.
highlander
16-Feb-09, 16:05
Having read the very first post that was on here yesterday to ask what the reason the emergency services was called out for, IMO it was right to remove it, as the org or bongo drums work faster than the media. Anyone sitting at the computer will have read it and thought about children or relations who were down at scrabster, i know i would have been very worried reading it on the org, not knowing if something had happened to them before i was told by the proper authorities. I feel that once it has been said on news like MFR you would know the right story about what is happening. It was not so long ago there was a thread about people who had fallen over the cliffs, no-one was there to witness that, but that thread was ripped to pieces. As for having the pictures on the front page after the media has informed us, i cant see anything wrong in that. It shows that there are services out there doing a great job and is no different than a reporter posting the photos in local papers. It's when the fishing, speculation threads are wrong. I remember when the CB radios were all the rage, when there was an accident in the country cars would be racing to get the scene just to see what had happened, they wasted police time by telling them to stay back and the amount of wrong information that was passed on was unreal.
different folks have different view points, i personally don't see a problem with what is in the public news domain, what is fact and also what has been put on the front of the org.
Emphasis on the word "fact" - 'front page' news items, as far as I am aware, are taken from recognised media sources. Not someone, who was told by someone, who overheard someone, who saw something and figured they knew exactly what was happening...
So hopefully that's all you are reading - facts. Not rumour or speculation or gossip.
to me, the org is a localised newspaper with a forum where all sorts of topics are discussed. what is happening is news, and local at that. it's no different to a photographer taking a photo, it being published in a national paper of a news event that is on going. nothing has been said about the missing person, other than a search is on going for a missing person, there is no 'tittle tattle' and no malicious gossip.
The difference is that commenting on 'breaking' news on the TV or in a newspaper by the viewer/reader is not possible. When you're asked to send in your pictures regarding an 'event', those pictures are checked before being 'published'. When you are asked to comment via email they are checked as well.
Someone posts a "does-anyone-know-what/why" thread in the forum then all you will get will be the local 'sleuths' submitting their theories, in 'real time'. And when does gossip become 'malicious'? When someone is offended or upset by it?
i don't know about you, but most people i know, myself included, have a degree of curiosity about them. i'll tell you now there wont be a street in thurso where someone hasn't either wondered or asked why the helicopter and lifeboat where out.
as i say, facts are fine, pictures to illustrate these facts are fine too in my eyes.
Most people may be curious but then find something else to occupy their minds, rather than posting rumours or tittle tattle on a forum...
If they want to gossip over a coffee then that is fine - posting their 'findings' on a forum isn't so acceptable...
It IS in bad taste to gossip on a pulblic website about any incident involving the emergenecy services. We all know how arms and legs can be added to any story and until the agencies involved release a public statement, nobody should assume they know the ins and outs of the incident and post it on a public forum. It is heresay and gossip which as we have seen in the past, on this forum, can cause distress and legal issues.
As to the story of Jayne Goody, she herself chose to give HER story to the press. If it's public knowledge then its acceptable to discuss it on here.
You clearly need to look at the thread on this nonesense.
News deals is fact. Opinion forums deal in opinion and speculation.
As for not using images when people might be hurt or suffering, would you apply that only to local people or would all people be included? An image speaks a thousand words. It is very important to use images even when people are hurt. It will bring home that hurt in a the way a text, no matter how detailed and exact can. There are images that decades after they were taken will still be able to transmit the essencial of the story they were trying to communicate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Th%E1%BB%8B_Kim_Ph%C3%BAc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falling_Man
http://photosthatchangedtheworld.com/starving-child-vulture/
http://photosthatchangedtheworld.com/man-mutilated-rwanda/
http://photosthatchangedtheworld.com/execution-of-a-viet-cong-guerrilla/
Would these news items impacted our lives as much without the images that defined them? Images of human suffering that affected the individuals and families personally yes. But that were of vital importance to transmit the human impact of an event and that demanded of us an action/reaction to that event. The photo/film made the difference. But only in the context of factual news. Never in a speculative context.
Tugmistress
16-Feb-09, 20:38
Emphasis on the word "fact" - 'front page' news items, as far as I am aware, are taken from recognised media sources. Not someone, who was told by someone, who overheard someone, who saw something and figured they knew exactly what was happening...
So hopefully that's all you are reading - facts. Not rumour or speculation or gossip.
yes it is fact on the front of the org
The difference is that commenting on 'breaking' news on the TV or in a newspaper by the viewer/reader is not possible. When you're asked to send in your pictures regarding an 'event', those pictures are checked before being 'published'. When you are asked to comment via email they are checked as well.
Someone posts a "does-anyone-know-what/why" thread in the forum then all you will get will be the local 'sleuths' submitting their theories, in 'real time'. And when does gossip become 'malicious'? When someone is offended or upset by it?
ok so the official sources that the news & pics came from are local 'sleuths'?
Most people may be curious but then find something else to occupy their minds, rather than posting rumours or tittle tattle on a forum...
If they want to gossip over a coffee then that is fine - posting their 'findings' on a forum isn't so acceptable...
exactly my point ;)
by the way ... from the official northern constabulary press release .... (http://highlandlife.net/news__1/northern_constabulary_news/update_search_for_missing_woman_thurso)
Update - Search for missing woman - Thurso
Issued: 16 Feb 2009
POLICE can confirm they recovered a body from the Dunnet area of Caithness at 2.40pm this afternoon. The discovery is connected to yesterday's disappearance a 44-year-old woman in the Holborn Head area.
Police and coastguard officials spent today carrying out coastline searches for the missing woman.
Formal identification will take place in due course and next of kin have been informed of the discovery. If details emerge locally in relation to the woman's identification, prior to official confirmation, the family have asked the media to respect their privacy at this difficult time.
A post mortem will be carried out in due course and a report will be submitted to the Procurator Fiscal.
My thoughts and condolences go out to this poor womans family, how they will be feeling now no one would be able to put into words
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