CASE, again!

[Bobinovich]

I don't want to upset wur Bill but does anyone else think that CASE has the touch of death when it comes to big businesses? I've lost count on how many millions they have squandered on businesses who have subsequently gone under.

The latest announcement of voluntary redundancies from the battery factory in Thurso - yet another company who were 'touched' by CASE with a £2.6m investment just last year.

Anyone with me on this?

[Foxy]

I agree there has been 1 or 2 that have gone out of business that case have been involved with, but what I can't understand is how all these so called big businesses get handouts from case, I thought case was supposed to help new businesses just starting out????? or did I just imagine that?

[JAWS]

If I were a millionaire and CASE offered me 50p I'd up sticks and run.

[Chillie]

They have in my opinion the kiss of death, everything the touch turns to dust.[evil] [evil]

[wickerinca]

Yep.........have to say that I don't think they are earning their keep!!

[willowbankbear]

100% Agreed

[tip top]

These people do not have a clue

[Saveman]

Can CASE be resposible for how a business is run?

[tip top]

Can CASE be resposible for how a business is run?

No

However they should perhaps look at accounts and maybe do a little bit of research on the companies they are firing money at.

[Bobinovich]

Can CASE be resposible for how a business is run?

Maybe not - there just seems to be a pattern to things.

1. Large company goes to CASE saying they want money for some expansion project which will secure X jobs and maybe create some more...

2. CASE agree a nice fat payment with more 0's than a brothel

3. Some (relatively short) time later said business had to downsize, or worse, shut up shop.

Hunters of Brora
Grampian Records
Granit Union
Caithness Glass
Norfrost
Battery FactoryI'm sure the list goes on but these are probably the biggest

[Tugmistress]

Please feel free to correct me if i am wrong, but i am sure i read somewhere that CASE can actually tell the company what to do with the money given to them.

[willowbankbear]

[quote=Bobinovich]Maybe not - there just seems to be a pattern to things.

1. Large company goes to CASE saying they want money for some expansion project which will secure X jobs and maybe create some more...

2. CASE agree a nice fat payment with more 0's than a brothel

3. Some (relatively short) time later said business had to downsize, or worse, shut up shop.

Seems true but its sadly amusing at the same time,im a bit tipsy now folks:confused :p :Razz

3tins of magners&3 old pulteneys Loyal

[concerned resident]

I am afraid CASE has been found to be incompetent over many years, it has only continued because our politicians haven’t the nerve to state the truth, as they fear the back lash from there fellow members. They ignore its history, and just talk positive about CASE, I am sure there day will come, as will CASE’s when they will held accountable for there actions.

[AR]

And in any public sector area(council, police etc) if they are found to be incompetent they just say 'we must learn from our mistakes', but they forget they are handling our money, and whenever there is any form of incompetcy heads never seem to roll.

[DW]

Neatly takes us back to the new buildings at Wick Business Park - the business being construction and sod-all else... :evil

Why are they there?

[Loafer]

I think that the extra £9million that was given to CASE for the rundown of Dounreay has been a total waste of the taxpayers money.

Hunters of Brora got a huge amount of that cash (nearly the lot).

That was supposed to be used to assist various firms.

Too many people have got "fingers in the pie" with CASE with the firms that they "give" money to.

I could be very controversial with my comments here about all that have gained money from CASE, but I suspect I may be banned from giving actual companies.

The Loafer

[JAWS]

Who actually runs CASE? Are they top grade Business People or Financiers?
Or is it run by "Lets pretend to be doing something" Politicians.
Can somebody explain how it's organised, I know it there, I know it hands out money, but that's about all I know.

I'm not looking for a witch-hunt folks, just how it came into being, what it's makeup is, and how it operates.

[DW]

SNIP

I could be very controversial with my comments here about all that have gained money from CASE, but I suspect I may be banned from giving actual companies.

The Loafer

Free Speech still exists, I hope that this forum doesn't practice political censureship.

[wickerinca]

I have to say that I am with Jaws. I have no idea who 'CASE' is or are? Who makes the decisions? Can somebody give us a brief history of case or will I have to go and google it for myself?:confused :D

[Bill Fernie]

Just a few points on this one.

I am a director of CASE representing Highland council.
the other council representative is from Sutherland - Alison Magee represents Lairg and who is also the convenor of the Highland council.

Directors
All of the directors are unpaid volunteers and give their time as I do for the good of the area. A full list of the directors is available on the CASE web site - it is part of the HIE web site http://www.hie.co.uk/case/board.htm Anyone can apply to become a director and if they have the right experience and qualities set out in the papers when applications are requested then they will get an interview. It is expected that anyone who makes themselves available can attend the meetings held in various parts of Caithness and Sutherland and represent CASE at other places from time to time. The aim is to try and balance the board to have as wide a variety of experience from both the geographical area and a range of business and community activities. That may not always reflect every aspect and it is subject to who puts themselves forward. Nearly all of the directors are involved in a range of activities whether in business, on other boards, council, voluntary groups and so on.

Grants etc
There is no secret about who receives grants. It is all piblished in the John O'Groat Journal each month, on this web site and on the Case web site. The past few years reports are all still there to see who got what - http://www.hie.co.uk/case/monthly_reports.htm

Where the money goes
Not all of the oney that CASE makes grants for is to businesses. Some goes to communty groups and another part goes to training both in the form of courses laid on at a number of educational establishments as well as individual grants for courses within and outwith the area. The 2004 - 05 annnual report gives some idea of what CASE did in that year.

HIE
CASE is part of the HIE network and there is currently a review going onlooking at the entire network.

CASE
It is also worth considering what CASE is capable of doing with budget of £4million each year. Put this against the Highland Council budget of nearly £500 million or the fact that the Thurso town hall refurbishement will cost nealy £4million.

Elsewhere
The rest of Scotland is dealt with by Scottish Enterprise http://www.scottish-enterprise.com/

Business Start Up and Grants
Scotland for many years has not had good number of new businesses start up compared to the rest of the UK. A whole range of reasons are put forward including cultural ones. Despite the fact that many Scots start businesses elsewhere and succeed - often spectacularly they do not seemingly always do so here. One of the jobs of the LECS is to try and encourage business start ups and inicrease the number of jobs in both large and small ventures. That puts CASE and the other LECs in the Risk Business. A business man takes risks to start a business so ti follos that any one investing is taking risks. The LECs take risk in investing money to encourage the business to get on faster and hopefully be successful. Many more businesses who have had grants succeed than fail. It may be that the failures stand out as they get lots of publicity when they close down. You could make amuch longer list of businesses who have had grants that are still in business - many for long periods. Some had grants from the HIE predecessor the HIDB. Similar accusations about grants were made about the HIDB.

It would help if when making comments about the grants system if eveyone read the rules that surround the decisions as to what businesses can and cannot get grant. Then it is question of judgement as to which businesses will make good use fo the a grant and which will not. Some businesses will offer a much better return in terms of jobs than others. It may be that a grant at the right time will keep a company afloat and protect jobs - and of couse the more jobs involved usually means it is larger company and the sums involved are likely to be greater. Some businesses are turned down for grants but for a number of reasons this information is not published. It is therfor difficult for anyon to judge accurately if CASE is making the right choices - the ones refused may have been for very good reasons but that part of the work is not available for public scrutiny as it might affect the businesses involved adversely.

Finally
This is not a comprehensive reply - just few points


I don't want to upset wur Bill
I will definitely not be upset and am more than happy to see folk taking an interest in what public bodies are doing.

A huge amount of information is available about the LECS on the web site and via other web sites. Also reports at the Scottish Executive. In addition to get some idea on how decisions are made you need to understand the context of government policy on investing in new businesses and /or making grants in each area. A whole range of government policies can affect the decisions. It may not always be solely based on the same reasons that for example a bank might make a loan. Governments often try to alleviate poverty, halt population decline and improve life circumstances for the population and so on. It is mistake to think that only profit and loss is involved. If it were the decisions might be very different and indeed there might be no grants at all. Most western countries attempt to influence the creations of new businesses or to encourage existing ones to expand.

Everyone would like to be able to pick winners all the time but no one even the best investors mange to do that. Trying to get higher percentage of winners is always the aim of every LEC and constant monitoring goes on to try to achieve it. If a business gets into trouble CASE will try to help with advice either from within its own staff or bring in outside consultants to try to suggest changes. That will succeed more often than not if it is not too late and the business is still basically sound.

I am aure that the board of CASE and othe LECS would be delighted to hear some constructive suggestions rather than merely reciting a list of companies that fail who happen to have had a grant. Since many companies get grants it stands to reason some will fail and a few spectacularly. But let's see some balance and talk about the successes as well. It is still trait of the Scots that we tend to be amazingly good at "I telt ye it widna work school of economics". It may be that is why the few that do try their hand at a business have to be a bit more thick skinned than the rest of the population. In some countries you are not really considered till you have failed and started all over again.

And now moving on to other items and preparing for tomworrow.

cheers

Bill

[Bobinovich]

A good reply Bill. It may shock some but I'll admit to being a CASE start-up myself. However my opinions on them changed as both subsequent requests for assistance (2 cases) were knocked back or substantial barrier erected (1 case).

I know I'm not the only one on these boards who've been in this situation. I also know of many new and existing small business persons who have similar tales. Many have had to struggle much longer than was actually necessary to achieve their current status - had their requests to CASE fallen on more business-minded ears they may have achieved this level sooner or maybe even exceeded it.

Another problem for small business persons is that they can't afford to employ someone full time to put together fancy reports and presentations to put to LEC's or to apply for grants here and there. Every day spent producing the necessary documentation and research to support their request is a day not earning.

Therefore you must understand from our point of view that when we see companies given large wads who are then not able to produce the goods it kind of peeves us off!

Rant over...

[JAWS]

Thanks for that Bill. I suspect there are many, just like me, who generally only ever hear of CASE when something goes wrong.

[Whitewater]

Bill excellent post, I'm now much more aware of the roll of CASE. Thanks

[wickerinca]

Thanks for the reply Bill and for the links. Think that I'll have a look for myself....of course, the websites are all government sites so they will tend to have a positive slant. Anybody know if there is an independent site that has info on CASE and Scottish Enterprise? Always nice to hear both sides:grin: