View Full Version : Snow Chains
Following the 'stop whingeing' outburst by Geoff Hoon in the media (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/4543486/Snow-Britain-Geoff-Hoon-tells-drives-to-stop-whingeing.html) about the UK not being prepared for winter, I wonder how many people here have snow chains or access to some?
I actually have something in the back of my car which has yet to be tried in 'anger' (or frustration?) but may just help to get me out of a tight slippery spot one day.
Snow socks.
Actually WeissSock's (http://www.snowchains.co.uk/main/weisssock.htm#) to be precise. Made by the well known snow chain manufacturer Weissenfel. They take up about the same amount of space as a folded up jacket but from the write ups and videos I have seen, certainly seem to succeed in getting you moving should the conditions warrant their use. And unlike chains the WeissSock can be driven on tarmac for short distances without damaging the road surface.
So while chains may not be suitable for the UK roads maybe these fabric alternative might?
Other brands but the same idea -
http://www.autosock.co.uk/
http://www.rockshore.uk.com/snow-socks-by-multi-grip-269-p.asp
I did try studded tyres many moons ago. They worked ok on snow and deep ice but were seriously lethal on a black surface. Nowadays the roads are usually closed or cleared long before we get enough snow to warrant anything other than realistic driving techniques.
My guess is that local authorities are no longer prepared for the sort of weather we had this week for a number of reasons. The country as a whole hasn't experienced conditions like this for many years and they were caught unawares. They have no recent experience of dealing with it and stocks of salt, grit and maybe even gritters and snowploughs have been allowed to run dangerously low. I suspect the lack of bad winters and all the propaganda about global warming have led some authorities to believe or at least hope we would never have a bad winter again. Anyone who knows anything about predictions of climate change knows that is very wrong.
I've driven abroad in chains in really bad snow. The amount of grip they give is quite remarkable. Winter tyres make a big difference too.
Studded tyres or even suitable snow tyres (http://www.nokiantyres.com/product-group?group=1.01) are an option but we don't have the annual snow fall to justify the cost of having a set of these tyres and rims as a back up. I know many drivers in places with 'real' winters do - I'm a member of a Volvo forum and having a "winter set" seems to be preferable to driving around on 'all-season' tyres.
Closing roads is fine but if you happen to live up that road it's inconvenient! And I recall the A14 in Cambridgeshire being closed a few years ago due to about an inch of snow. That caused mayhem for 1000's of motorists but if they maybe had some traction aids in their vehicles they may have got home that night. The snowplough/gritters were late hitting the roads and ended up stuck along with the rest of the motoring public!
And driving technique is crucial - just because you have a 4x4 doesn't mean you are invincible in the snow and ice! Most 4x4s run on 'compromised' road tyres and once you get stuck, they are no more use than Mr Smith in his front wheel drive car.
We may have stood up against the Spanish, French and the Germans in the past but Mr Frosty brings us to our knees in two days!!!
Crayola,
I was looking through some old pics the other day and we had the same amount of snowfall almost exactly 6 years ago. I have pictures taken around the village then which could easily pass for ones taken this last week. And yes, some climate change speculators do say if we do warm up then the UK/Europe could become a colder place.
Crayola,
I was looking through some old pics the other day and we had the same amount of snowfall almost exactly 6 years ago. I have pictures taken around the village then which could easily pass for ones taken this last week. And yes, some climate change speculators do say if we do warm up then the UK/Europe could become a colder place.I think it's a case of the weather becoming more variable rather than colder.
Six years is plenty of time for people to start believing bad winters are a thing of the past. Another difference this time is that the whole UK has been affected so they can't move people, equipment and grit from places with no snow to places with bad snow.
Do not disagree - but really, for once, the weather forecasters got the 'severe' weather warnings right! So councils and central government have to shoulder the blame for this farce.
The motorist pours billions of pounds into the governments coffers in council tax, road tax and fuel tax yet a few inches of snow and we would be better off walking!
And to top it all off the capitol shuts down with no bus service and most Tube trains cancelled.
Do not disagree - but really, for once, the weather forecasters got the 'severe' weather warnings right! So councils and central government have to shoulder the blame for this farce.Yes, of course the buck stops with government, local and national. I was trying to understand how they got into the situation in the first place.
... I was trying to understand how they got into the situation in the first place.
Cutbacks? Arrogance? Prudence? Thinking that 'no more boom and bust' also meant 'no more snow and ice'? [lol]
At last, a solution that I can invest in. I do not like the damage that chains do to the drive of a car and studded tyres are an expensive solution with storage problems. This looks much more ideal and I shall be investing in a set. :D
Glad to have shared it with you Ricco.
arana negra
08-Feb-09, 17:18
Here in Spain chains are required in certain areas. The roads have signs on them and are normal manned by the police when chains are needed. When we went to Sierra Nevada the frst time they were not allowing you past a ceratin point if you had no chains.
The truth of the matter was given away a couple of days ago. The explanation given was that it had been consistently cold during November, December and January so they had used much more salt than expected. and as a result stocks had run low.
Well, that is the same as saying that you car ran out of petrol because you had driven further than normal during the last week.
The answer to having run out of petrol is that you should have put some more in the car before you ran out. Most motorists appear to have the sense to do that.
It seems when it comes to a similar thing happening with salt the road agencies don’t have the brains to replace what they have used even when they are well warned they are going to need a lot more than they had planned for and certainly more than they had remaining in stock.
To do that requires “Joined Up Thinking”, something that seems to be beyond Hoon and the rest of his empty headed colleagues.
Perhaps somebody should whisper in Hoon’s ear that gas guzzling Chelsea Tractors are a very useful solution for conditions of thick snow and ice.
That suggestion should shut the idiot up.
All Season Tyres (Tires) are seem to be different here than in Canada. I happily drove (as a lot of people do) on all season tires for years. I only bothered getting snow tires in Canada when I was driving rear wheel drive sports car which came equipped with wet/dry tires. Would the British public give up the performance and smoother driving of UK all season tyres for Canadian All Season tires? If so there is a pound or two to be made there.
As for the snow and clearing the snow, the UK seems equipped for 90% of its weather (as most countries are). I don't think anyone would want to pay the taxes to cover the cost of any contigency.
A few years ago Ontario was hit with a huge snow storm and the army was brought in to help deal with the situation - the people in Quebec just laughed. You can only prepare for so much.
Tristan,
They are different because we do not get weeks of snow as they might in more northern climes.
The Scandanavians (and Canadians and some US states) have to endure those conditions every year without fail. I know if I lived in such a place it would be sensible to have a winter set of tyres and spend the short time required to swap out the wheels/tyres from the Spring/Summer/Autumn to a winter set.
But here it is not worthwhile. Just as chains aren't. Hopefully the WeissSocks will save my bacon when the time comes.
The Nokian site has a quite good guide to studded/friction tyres and when/where to use them - http://www.nokiantyres.com/studded-or-friction-tyres
George Brims
08-Feb-09, 22:18
I don't like the look of those sock things. They might help in some conditions but I am highly skeptical. Here in California they would not get you past a Highway Patrol checkpoint. Here things go in stages - 1. You must either have chains with you or 4WD with snow-rated tyres 2. You must put on chains unless you have 4WD and snow-rated tyres 3. Everyone puts on chains and anyone without 4WD is advised to turn around 4. Roads closed. Right now I am sitting at 5300 feet in the midst of a level 3, it's still snowing, and I'm hoping for 4 before work tomorrow! Knowing my luck it will stay at 3 and I will have to put the chains on before I leave, though the county guys keep rumbling past scraping it off so maybe down to a 2 by morning.
George,
If you can use snow chains, great. But for the occasions here in Blighty that we have to endure snow on our roads they probably won't be worth getting. Also not all vehicles are suitable for snow chains.
The snow socks is based on a proven principle. Natives in areas where snow is a regular visitor actually wear woollen socks over their boots to give them improved traction on snow and ice. Same idea.
If I happen to find myself in a situation where everyone else has ground to a halt and I can slip my 'socks' on and drive off, I'll remember your scepticism. :)
I may get to try them sooner than I think - I have to drive to Gatwick to pick someone up on Tuesday - just as the next load of snow hits the south!!!
George Brims
08-Feb-09, 23:13
What bothers me about them is whether they are suitable for all conditions - but on the other hand ordinary chains aren't either. And the socks do look much easier to install so that's a big plus. I knew the socks over boots trick though I heard it from the natives of - Scotland! Used to work with a bunch of blokes who were climbers.
I know some cars can't take normal chains because the wheel arches are too tight around the wheel. You can make a spectacular mess of your car if you don't know that and put them on anyway. They do make low-profile ones - steel cable rather than chain - which you can use on those vehicles.
In my opinion, (I am setting myself up for trouble) most folk dont have a clue how to drive properly. There are many that drive at the same speeds no matter what the conditions and end up complaining about the snow/ice/lack of grit etc as the blame for sliding off the road. Well wait a minute why not slow down a bit and take things a bit easier. However at the other end of the spectrum there are those who at first flake of snow falling imediately slow down to 20 mph causing tail backs and frustration. There is a middle ground and unfortunantly not enough folk find it.
Then there is the idiots that have 4X4s that assume they can go through anything. They cant and they dont they can get stuck too. Just ask anyone that tried to get to Glenshee ski resort from the south on saturday morning.
So far in my driving career I have been stuck twice because of snow and that was because the drifts were so deep a snowplough struggled to clear the road, Chain snow tyres etc would of done me no good. There is something to be said for finding an empty carpark and practicing skids etc in the snow so you can get used to it(the coppers may have a different idea)
Can't see anything in what you posted that doesn't ring true. My wife said the exact same thing the other day.
My neighbour popped round a couple of days ago and had a rant about inconsiderate 4x4 drivers in snow too!
There is something to be said for finding an empty carpark and practicing skids etc in the snow so you can get used to it(the coppers may have a different idea)
Regarding empty snow covered carparks...
Back in the mid 1970's, after a really heavy snowfall, a friend borrowed his Dad's Volvo 240 and we drove down to the Norseman Hotel (what was it called back then?) car park in Wick. We were happily taking turns behind the wheel, skidding around, when out of the darkness and falling snow appeared the lone figure of the local constable.
He wandered over to us, now sitting in a stationary car, and we rolled down the window.
"What are you lads up to?" he asked.
"We're practicing our car control in the snow, while the car park is empty" we replied.
"Well, that's good to see - being able to control skids safely is always a good skill to have" he said, "just make sure you stop if any other cars come into the car park."
"Well, we're stopping now - so don't worry"
He then said good night and walked off into the darkness again. We sat their not believing we had got off without a bollocking and decided to quit while we were ahead.
As we drove off, a Police van drove into the carpark and as we crossed the town bridge, which looked down on the car park, there was the Police van doing the same thing we had been doing ten minutes before!!!
Guess the ability to understand a skid helps everyone....
Dog-eared
09-Feb-09, 21:03
In the early 80's I was coming over the Struie in 3" of snow, still snowing hard , driving a Morris Traveller fitted with "town and country ' tyres. Really grippy ones. And old Morrises had a bit of ground clearance too.
Coming downhill towards the z bend over the bridge , there was a Ford Capri with wide wheels flashing its lights at us. I stopped and wound my window down, intending to advise them to turn back. The young boy racer driver said " whats it like further up " but before I could say anything another young guy in the back said
"If they can make it in that old thing , we can ! "
I said "Good Luck" , wound my window up and drove off downhill.
Bet they had fun !! :lol::lol:
And remember, snow chains are for getting you out of trouble, not getting you further in !!
George Brims
09-Feb-09, 21:35
Well here's one thing about snow chains. If a big 18-wheeler on its way up gets stuck right across the road you're coming down, having or not having chains makes little difference to how late you are to work (in the event, VERY LATE).
For snow chains to be effective you need a reasonable depth of snow to be able to use them. Studded tyres are pretty much the same, in fact, in Britain, even worse.
You see, it’s like this. “Oh look, it’s snowed, isn’t it deep. I’d better put the snow chains on” Fine, so off you go.
Then there’s the first problem. You have got to the main road and guess what? It’s been gritted, no snow.
So you take the snow chains off and off you go down the main road, until? “Oh, look, the side road hasn’t been gritted, isn’t the snow deep.” On go the snow chains and off you go.
You do what you have to do and set off back. You get to the main road and guess what? No snow. You take the snow chains off …..
By the end of the day you are shattered and whatever you needed to do you could have done in half the time and with half the effort by walking.
Either that or by simply waiting for the snow to go away altogether. :lol:
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