View Full Version : 3 Month Old Baby Boy Mauled to Death
Terrible from Wales, a 3 Month Old Bay Boy Mauled to Death by two family Pets, a Staffordshire Bull Terrier and a Jack Russel Terrier. SO SAD !!
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Baby-Mauled-To-Death-By-Family-Dogs-In-Ystrad-Mynach-In-South-Wales/Article/200902115218549?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15218549_Baby_Mauled_To_Death_By_Famil y_Dogs_In_Ystrad_Mynach_In_South_Wales
young_fishin_neep
07-Feb-09, 18:26
That is such a shame :( its not nice to hear things like that happening but yet again two more kinds of dogs gettin bad press
xx
Very sad :( I wonder what made the dogs attack? More bad press for dogs.
Kevin Milkins
07-Feb-09, 20:40
How sad is this.
Very sad news !
Bring back dog licences !
IMO Them dogs are just wrong! Muscle with teeth! I'm surrounded by them!
oh dear.
some poor wee soul dies and some people are intent on defending the breeds of dogs.
all dogs are capable of this,but some breeds are just more likely to,its in their genes and goes back to what they are bred to do,and some are bred to hunt and kill.the owners though do have a lot to do with it.
porshiepoo
07-Feb-09, 23:20
There does need to be some kind of regulating with dogs.
I'm not entirely sure how it would prevent this type of thing unless it's caused by a families lack of understanding of the animal and / or the breed, however if it saves just one life then it has to be worth it.
The problem is that any breed of dog can be capable of this type of aggressive act. If the dogs had been play fighting and had upset the baby and the baby cried then sadly that's all it would have taken for the dogs to attack.
As I said though ANY breed of dog is capable of it and education and awareness is probably going to be the only way to go.
agreed.you just never know.
my old lab,male,entire and could be known to take a dislike to certain other dogs,was only 2 when i had a baby and was very good with all baby things.never looked at baby toys or food and never knocked down toddler.and i had doubts as to how he would be!
my lab bitch,now 10,and very gentle and affectionate is just too excited around new baby.and i thought she would be great!
my neighbours dog,who has been attacking my dogs,i am told by the owner will not touch my toddler,as he is good with kids!i could never make such a statement about one of my dogs,so cant understand how she can!but thats the problem,some people just wont think of what could happen until its too late.its a staffy,by the way,and i have no option but to go past the damn thing!
I might get lynched but I always feel sorry for the dogs in these cases. As far as I know dogs are preditors.It's up to humans to keep them in control. Thewas a case about a year ago the same as this the only common denominator is that in both cases it was Granny's dogs:confused
young_fishin_neep
08-Feb-09, 00:25
I have to say i don't think its fair that certain dogs can be slated with a bad reputation, the way i see it the dog only reacts to how its been brought up.
yet again Staffys are gettin a bad reputation, when infact they are one of the best breed of dogs to have in a family.
xxx
I have to say i don't think its fair that certain dogs can be slated with a bad reputation, the way i see it the dog only reacts to how its been brought up.
xxx
Well thats just nonsense. You must accept that some breeds didnt exist until they were created for the spesific job of being aggressive and dangerous.
young_fishin_neep
08-Feb-09, 01:29
oh i fully accept and understand that certain breeds of dogs have been made for a spesific job, but at the end of the day the nature of a dog is all due to how they have been brought up. for example a dog learns to chase cats or not to chase cats. the same goes with violence, a dog is tought it, in the wild puppies are tought by their mothers, in a sence it is a natural thing, but the mothers are showing them it is okay to do that. were as i beleive if dogs are brought up properly they are tought violence is not needed and is not acceptable therefore they do not use it.
With respect there is a time and a place to discuss the merits of different dog breeds and this is not the place to be arguing over what dog has a reputation for what type of behaviour. A baby has been killed lets not forget that point. As mentioned above any dog is capable of attacking another living thing. Dogs should never ever be left alone with small children no matter how well natured they are.
butterfly
08-Feb-09, 03:08
i have a dog that loves kiddies,just adores them,wants out to play with them but having said that i would never leave him in a room with a young baby.i could never take that chance no matter how much i trust him.some years ago i watched a programme about rottweilers,alsations and staffys.they programme showed the reactions of each dog when it heard high piercing crys like that of a young infant.when the noise got louder and louder each of those dogs showed visable signs of distress.the staffys went mental and so did the rottweiler.the alsation was not as distressed but showed a good degree of discomfort when hearing the sounds .on the programme it was decided that high piercing sounds like that of babies or children triggered a vicious reaction in those dogs that could cause them to attack.something i never forgot,so no matter how good people say their dogs are with children,i for one would never take the chance where a young ones life is involved.:(
With respect there is a time and a place to discuss the merits of different dog breeds and this is not the place to be arguing over what dog has a reputation for what type of behaviour. A baby has been killed lets not forget that point. As mentioned above any dog is capable of attacking another living thing. Dogs should never ever be left alone with small children no matter how well natured they are.
I do agree with you that no dog should ever be left unsupervised with a small child. The needless death of this wee boy is just heartbreaking. Tragic accidents such as this one do seem to be most prevalent when a child is being cared for in a relative's home, when the resident dogs possibly just aren't used to having a wee one around. If they weren't left alone with the child, perhaps this kind of very sad outcome could be avoided.
So many staffies/staffy crosses have been in our local dog and cat home for many months because their previous owners have given little - if any- thought to their circumstances when they took the dogs on. The D&C home will quite rightly only rehome the dogs to suitable homes, where the dogs will have a decent life and will be no danger to anyone, and such homes are really very hard to find. I feel very sorry for these poor dogs.
People need to think long and hard about the suitability of certain breeds for their particular circumstances, but no dog of any breed should be left alone with a small child, and the majority of responsible dog owners do know that.
Boozeburglar
08-Feb-09, 13:16
dogs are dangerous, that is that
even a small dog is dangerous, but it is all relative
breeds with big teeth and strong jaws are harder to fight off
no one should leave kids with dogs
obvious
With respect there is a time and a place to discuss the merits of different dog breeds and this is not the place to be arguing over what dog has a reputation for what type of behaviour.
Really. So an internet discussion board, in a thread about a baby being killed by family dogs is not the place discuss dangerous dogs. I'll be honest, I cant really thing of a better place.
butterfly
08-Feb-09, 13:44
I'll be honest, I cant really thing of a better place.
i agree with you ,this is a public forum where we have every right to discuss things and nobody is arguing.
WE have a jack russell and she is a softie however when i brought the baby home from hospital she had NO IDEA what this thing was. She was confused and his crying upset her quite a lot. I would never ever leave the baby in the room with the dog. Even now when she is quite used to him and will follow him around as she has found he can be an unexpected source of food (biscuit crumbs, toast bits etc..) I still never ever leave them together. A dog is not an extension of ourselves, it is an animal and you never can say they are truly safe.
A tragic accident. And no doubt dogs will go on getting involved in such accidents while people take no responsibility for dog ownership. How many kids are injured every year by the domestic cat? I have seen kids playing very roughly with cats - but we don't hear so much about those?
But no, the knee-jerk-brigade would have all dogs classed in the same group as the Pit Bull, Japanese Tosa, Dogo Argentino and the Fila Brasileiro!
Bad dogs are created by bad owners/breeders. Legislate against them, not the dogs. Make ownership harder. Make people take a test or prove they have the common sense to actually integrate a dog into their family unit....
I cant say i've ever heard of any bairn being mauled to death by the domestic cat ?
Your right too many people have dogs who shouldn't have them!
A wee bairn has been killed by a staffy !
No knee Jerk reaction
mulac,
I said "How many kids are injured every year by the domestic cat? I have seen kids playing very roughly with cats - but we don't hear so much about those?"
The old moggy is quite capable of taking an eye or two out if it wants to. And seeing young children carrying cats around like rag dolls (no, not the breed) clasped to their chests a cat taking fright is going to escape the same way it would up a tree - using it's claws. Sure the cat will flee while the dog will hang on - but cats in a 'frenzy' are things to be avoided!
Your other point - yes, a Staffordshire has been involved in the death of a baby. But so has a Jack Russell Terrier. Now, who would have though that a small dog like a Jack Russell would do such a thing?
Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about how dogs in a pack act, would.
Or maybe the JR sat on the sofa and just goaded the Staffordshire on?
These are small dogs (in height) so where was the baby? On the floor? On the sofa? If it was, then these dogs will have viewed it as a lower member of the 'pack'. Or maybe they saw it as something else.
I am sure the 1000's of owners of Staffies will be aghast that the dogs they see as soft-playful-great-with-kids family pets have been painted as devil dogs by the media and those with no idea...
It help stop Idiots having more than one dog!And just how, pray do tell, would dog licences stop people having more than one dog?
I cant say i've ever heard of any bairn being mauled to death by the domestic cat ?That is true, cats do not usually maul small babies to death. They simply get into the cot or pram where the baby is sleeping, lie against the babies face and smother them to death.
The end result is the same, one very dead baby.
Moderator
08-Feb-09, 18:05
Please keep the discussion of this topic on a civilised level and do not resort to insulting other members just because you do not agree with their viewpoint.
I'm sorry Binbob did not mean to insult you.
THANK U SO VERY MUCH FOR THOSE WORDS....:roll:
Ur smilie says it all binbob - the dog OWNERS need to take responsiblity for the dogs!!! I have a staffy myself and would never leave him alone with kids regardless of how much I trust him because after all he is a dog. I trust my dog fully however like humans they can also let us down....the "humans" that do not take the appropriate actions to ensure the safety of the children and the pets should be the ones who take the responsibility for what has happened!!!!! No surprise that it is the staffy that people have focused on I personally have met more viscious/nippy jack russells in my time on this earth but at the end of the day we are the ones in control of these animals and it irks me that so many animals are being destroyed because of the actions of so called responsible humans and branded as devil dogs or the likes [evil]
Get a grip !
How many stories have you heard about cats smothering a baby to death ?
A wee bit different than getting mauled to death!
Incase any of yous have forgotten a baby was mauled to death and yous are on here trying to defend Staffies !
I give up !
PS binbob you are an idiot !
And what pray tell is wrong with staffies?
The only dog that has ever bitten me was a Jack Russel !
I dont like Staffies probably because i'm scared of them!
Muscle with sharp teeth is my description of them! Thats just my opinion
GIve me a Doberman or Alsation any day !
christina
08-Feb-09, 18:38
The poor family:( what they must be going through to loss a child is bad enough every parents worst nightmare but to be mauled by dogs. I have a dog a black lab who is a big softy, but you can never trust a dog 100% at the end of the day they could turn at any point.
Maybe you should actually meet up with someone who has a staffy who has looked after it well so you can see that they really are loving dogs - I was chased by two alsations when i was a teen just because i walked passed there house but still wouldn't tar them all with the same brush - I think my staffy is just so sweet looking but a lot of people do instantly see muscle and teeth with staffies poss coz they are always panting which means their mouths are open a lot and they are wide :D
The only dog that has ever bitten me was a Jack Russel !
I dont like Staffies probably because i'm scared of them!
Muscle with sharp teeth is my description of them! Thats just my opinion
GIve me a Doberman or Alsation any day !
I'm surrounded by them ! My neighbours cat had its back leg ripped off a few weeks ago by a staffie.
I know that they are all not the same and I do know that a lot has to do with the owner!
Each to there own tho !
We had a cat that was killed by someones staffy about a year ago same again I didn't judge the breed (possibly because i found out who the owner was) We were devastated!! Our pup has actually been mauled by two cats and never retaliated in fact couldn't get up on me quick enough to get away from the cat on the occasion he was with me and the same when he was with my partner
I'm surrounded by them ! My neighbours cat had its back leg ripped off a few weeks ago by a staffie.
I know that they are all not the same and I do know that a lot has to do with the owner!
Each to there own tho !
thanks to him/her...i am leaving the org.for real,this time.there are too many new folk who just set out to infuriate...........so i have had it.
will miss u all in pet section.take care...binbob;)
This always gets us abouyt dog attacks on children especially when a staffie is involved its let the dog be the fault. but why, who is to say the jack russel did not start the attack, and just like humans one bad egg in a protest is enough to make a riot, well when one dog attacks the other will follow.
Who is to blame, the person who left the child alone, no-one else.
we have kids and we have a staffie who we trust with the kids 99.% but being human we know there is always a chance, so he is never left in the room with the kids at all. If we go out to make a brew and the dogs in the room then he comes to the kitchen.
never has a dog been left with any of our kids, the same as never have the dogs ever been allowed to sleep in the room with a child.
You slate staffies because of the breed, but smaller dogs, like yorkies, corgis are renound for aggressiveness towards people in general.
Please watch this link and although it is about the American Pit Bull, its opens your eyes.
There are scenes of animal cruelty so please watch at your own discretion. Its heart warming and honest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwC0RRU4I-s
and you think dogs are bad.
percy toboggan
08-Feb-09, 19:19
I find this description rather apt.
I do like dogs - rather than love them. Lately though, these last few years I can no longer look kindly upon the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
Occassionally because of the oikish blokes I see walking with them but more particularly by their own appearance. Short and squat with muscle packed bags. Uglyish mugs too in my opinion, there is little of the Christmas card or the chocolate box about these brutes.They are often harnessed which emphasises their pulling power. I'm afraid I find them utterly charmless.
I would not dream of keeping one around any small child. Dogs have unfathomable instincts. Every breed has the potential to be dangerous. I have only ever owned mongrels and fortunately have never experienced
any real visciousness. I have not owned a dog for some ten years and more and have no real desire to do so until I can find plenty of time to spend with it.
I do not wish to offend Bull terrier owners but the breed is past its usefulness and should be phased out of existence. Perhaps a REd SEtter, or a Spaniel might fill the void , or even a mongrel which in my experience are cheaper, hardier and cost less at the vets!
This poor child...an infant torn apart by dogs...it's a throwback to a dark age and if I was the praying kind I'd offer one for this poor Baby.
porshiepoo
08-Feb-09, 19:27
I have to say i don't think its fair that certain dogs can be slated with a bad reputation, the way i see it the dog only reacts to how its been brought up.
yet again Staffys are gettin a bad reputation, when infact they are one of the best breed of dogs to have in a family.
xxx
I completely agree that it's not fair to blame the dog.
Dogs are the domesticated offspring of the wolf (albeit hundreds of years later) and as such they still have a natural instinct to kill that we cannot even begin to understand and would be ignorant of us to believe or assume that we can 'breed' it out.
The reason certain breeds such as Rotties, Staffies etc have a bad rep is because these breeds were created, they're not a natural production. They were created for specific purposes, namely to fight, to kill, to maim and / or to guard. They have been kept closer to their more natural state than other breeds and have had their natural instincts exploited for the same purposes.
It is no suprise when certain breeds act as their nurtured nature has dictated they should.
The onus has to be on the owner - everytime.
I've said it a million and one times that there is not enough education given on the ownership of dogs, we see it as a right not a privilege to own one and choose to forget that it is an unpredictable animal that we bring into our home and try to humanise. The consequences of our lack of understanding sadly often end in the death of an innocent person.
percy toboggan
08-Feb-09, 19:37
I completely agree that it's not fair to blame the dog.
.
Whilst 'blaming' the dogs would be folly. Your post suggests a certain understanding of pet dogs eating babes in arms. A 'pet' conditioned into domesticity will not usually try to eat children. These dogs, whatever pre-programmed genetic condition urged them to do so
acted abnormally and although 'blame' is meaningless a certain degree of indignant bewilderment and total intolerance to this kind of savage, bestial behaviour is understandable. We expect more from our pets ! We usually get it.
I'm glad the dogs were destroyed whether to 'blame' or not.
Blame is a human reaction to a human emotion. It would be entirely ill fitting in a canine concept. Dogs brains are deficient...yet often seem superior to some of the idiots who parade them up and down our streets.
percy toboggan
08-Feb-09, 19:39
....yet again Staffys are gettin a bad reputation, when infact they are one of the best breed of dogs to have in a family.
As this and several other recent incidents clearly demonstrates: :roll:
The main problem with most of the larger breeds of dog is that a certain section of the population never grow out of the "My dad's bigger than your dad!" childishness and when they become adults (in size not brain power) and that attitude no longer frightens anybody they resort to “My dogs bigger than your dog!”
The larger and more fierce the dog the “harder” they believe themselves to be and that is the cause of most large dogs getting a bad reputation.
A human with no brains and a dog with not training, or even worse encouraged to be aggressive, is a vary bad combination and the fault there lies with the human and not the dog.
IMHO there are not enough dogs on the list of dangerous dogs. I particularly don't like staffies, they can do a lot of damage and personally I would cross the street if I saw one coming towards me and I had my children with me.
As I pointed out some time ago on this forum the most 'reported' dog attacks in 2006 were by staffies. They can be a dangerous breed, particularly in the wrong hands.
I owned a Jack Russell for a matter of a few weeks but he was quite dominant aggressive at times and the only dog that's ever tried to bite me, I don't trust them either. BTW he was rehomed with an experienced JR owner and he's now as happy as a pie.
As Boozeburglar said previously, all dogs are potentially dangerous or even a killer. It's up to the owner to choose a breed suited to them or their family's needs, is should be common sense but unfortunately for the majority it is not, it's even more unfortunate for the innocent children maimed or killed each year.
IMHO there are not enough dogs on the list of dangerous dogs. I particularly don't like staffies, they can do a lot of damage and personally I would cross the street if I saw one coming towards me and I had my children with me.
As I pointed out some time ago on this forum the most 'reported' dog attacks in 2006 were by staffies. They can be a dangerous breed, particularly in the wrong hands.
I owned a Jack Russell for a matter of a few weeks but he was quite dominant aggressive at times and the only dog that's ever tried to bite me, I don't trust them either. BTW he was rehomed with an experienced JR owner and he's now as happy as a pie.
As Boozeburglar said previously, all dogs are potentially dangerous or even a killer. It's up to the owner to choose a breed suited to them or their family's needs, is should be common sense but unfortunately for the majority it is not, it's even more unfortunate for the innocent children maimed or killed each year.
we all know your hate of the great SBT, and i feel the same about little whipper snappers that run round yipping day and night, but explain the bit about its up to a family to decide which dogs is best.
I beleive " NANNY DOG " pet name for the breed of Bull Terriers says alot.
I was just reading about the attack last year of the little girl that was killed at her grandmothers house, by her uncles dog, well it was revealed that the dog was infact hyped up on STEROIDS, used to ready the dog for fighting. How many others have been needlessly pumped up on steroids, and this has been the cause of the attacks
owners fault not dogs.
I bet my pal that you would post right at the back of me LOL
I don't give a rat's behind what breed of dog you have, this has nothing to do with you so get over yourself.
My words were 'I don't particularly like staffies', hate is a very strong word, I don't hate any breed, I love dogs, I'm a doggy person, I just don't particularly like staffies, get it....
This thread isn't about you or your dog, it's about a poor 3 month old baby killed by in your words by a 'great SBT'. I'm entitled to my opinion without you 'shadowing' my every move, this is getting very tiresome.
I bet my pal that you would post right at the back of me LOL
I don't give a rat's behind what breed of dog you have, this has nothing to do with you so get over yourself.
My words were 'I don't particularly like staffies', hate is a very strong word, I don't hate any breed, I love dogs, I'm a doggy person, I just don't particularly like staffies, get it....
This thread isn't about you or your dog, it's about a poor 3 month old baby killed by in your words by a 'great SBT'. I'm entitled to my opinion without you 'shadowing' my every move, this is getting very tiresome.
well said Julia, breed owners tend to spend more time defending the breed than thinking about the whole topic of a poor baby being mauled.
thanks to him/her...i am leaving the org.for real,this time.there are too many new folk who just set out to infuriate...........so i have had it.
will miss u all in pet section.take care...binbob;)
well...well..have had such lovely comments..asking me to stay...so i am donning 2 elephant like skins..and will try again.will make good use of my ignore list ,though!![lol]
thank u.u know who u all are...
its got nothing to do with the size of the dog! its what they are bred to do thats the problem.i know there are perfectly well trained dogs that are staffies(and other so called dangerous dogs)that wouldnt harm anything,but that is because of an owner that knows how to handle such a dog,they would still,given half a chance,chase and kill as thats what they were bred for.
my collie,still a pup,knows albeit a bit untrained,how to work sheep.
my lab and basett dont,and why would they.
my lab,not a very well trained dog,just a pet with basic training,will pick things up and give it to me,without harming it,even eggs,infact it was a chicken one day!!!
and my basett,well perhaps the hardest to get to do anything,will do none of these things,she just sniffs,everything!
i was going to get a jack russell years ago and when i mentioned it to my vet,he said to be carefull as i had a young child and because they were not a recognised kc breed i could be getting anything and they could be very aggresive.
butterfly
08-Feb-09, 23:35
good for you binbob,glad you had a change of heart!:lol:
good for you binbob,glad you had a change of heart!:lol:
thanks,butterfly....:Razz
Lets not forget the subject at hand.
Poor baby boy dead.
A poor family having to deal with such a travesty.
Finally yet again a terrible story involving a staffie :(
butterfly
09-Feb-09, 00:09
theres a lot of ignorant people out there who shouldnt have dogs .i know a couple who live nearby who have 3 kids under 7,the youngest still in a pram who have tooken on a staffie aged 5 because the owner doesnt want it.this dog is left indoors much of the day because they havent got the time or energy to walk it.dont people realise these dogs need a lot of exercise.a dog couped up all day is just asking for trouble and with 3 kids around .how does that family trust a dog they havent brought up from puppyhood and how can they be sure its safe around their children.this same dog got loose one day and jumped my fence into my garden and attacked my dog,my husband tried to get a grip of it but it had no coller on so it was difficult .we eventually turned the hose on him and that saw him off.the police were useless,they didnt want to know.will it take a tragedy to make them waken up,i really hope not
I cant say i've ever heard of any bairn being mauled to death by the domestic cat ?
Not mauled but I have heard of babies being smothered by cats.
I find this description rather apt.
I do like dogs - rather than love them. Lately though, these last few years I can no longer look kindly upon the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
Occassionally because of the oikish blokes I see walking with them but more particularly by their own appearance. Short and squat with muscle packed bags. Uglyish mugs too in my opinion, there is little of the Christmas card or the chocolate box about these brutes.They are often harnessed which emphasises their pulling power. I'm afraid I find them utterly charmless.
I would not dream of keeping one around any small child. Dogs have unfathomable instincts. Every breed has the potential to be dangerous. I have only ever owned mongrels and fortunately have never experienced
any real visciousness. I have not owned a dog for some ten years and more and have no real desire to do so until I can find plenty of time to spend with it.
I do not wish to offend Bull terrier owners but the breed is past its usefulness and should be phased out of existence. Perhaps a REd SEtter, or a Spaniel might fill the void , or even a mongrel which in my experience are cheaper, hardier and cost less at the vets!
This poor child...an infant torn apart by dogs...it's a throwback to a dark age and if I was the praying kind I'd offer one for this poor Baby.
My sentiments too, a dog is only as good as whoever is in charge of it IMHO
Not mauled but I have heard of babies being smothered by cats.
Where did you hear such a thing?
I have never heard of a Cat smothering a baby.
You got any links to back this up?
Where did you hear such a thing?
I have never heard of a Cat smothering a baby.
You got any links to back this up?
Not really, the only story I heard was a friend of my auntie, she was medically trained and her first 2 children were 'cot deaths'? the shrink asked her if they had a cat.
Forgot to add the meaning behind it all seemed to be that cat's like warm places. Who KNOWS?
I bet my pal that you would post right at the back of me LOL
I don't give a rat's behind what breed of dog you have, this has nothing to do with you so get over yourself.
My words were 'I don't particularly like staffies', hate is a very strong word, I don't hate any breed, I love dogs, I'm a doggy person, I just don't particularly like staffies, get it....
This thread isn't about you or your dog, it's about a poor 3 month old baby killed by in your words by a 'great SBT'. I'm entitled to my opinion without you 'shadowing' my every move, this is getting very tiresome.
dont flatter yourself[disgust]
then get off my back in every post.
theres a lot of ignorant people out there who shouldnt have dogs .i know a couple who live nearby who have 3 kids under 7,the youngest still in a pram who have tooken on a staffie aged 5 because the owner doesnt want it.this dog is left indoors much of the day because they havent got the time or energy to walk it.dont people realise these dogs need a lot of exercise.a dog couped up all day is just asking for trouble and with 3 kids around .how does that family trust a dog they havent brought up from puppyhood and how can they be sure its safe around their children.this same dog got loose one day and jumped my fence into my garden and attacked my dog,my husband tried to get a grip of it but it had no coller on so it was difficult .we eventually turned the hose on him and that saw him off.the police were useless,they didnt want to know.will it take a tragedy to make them waken up,i really hope not
i totally agree there, dont take on an older dog with young kids, we got ours at nine weeks and hes grown with kids.
I find this description rather apt.
I do like dogs - rather than love them. Lately though, these last few years I can no longer look kindly upon the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. SNIP>
It's a throwback to a dark age and if I was the praying kind I'd offer one for this poor Baby.
Your last paragraph brought a tear to my eye and a lump to my throat, that was really touching Percy. I'm so so upset for that poor child
well...well..have had such lovely comments..asking me to stay...so i am donning 2 elephant like skins..and will try again.will make good use of my ignore list ,though!![lol]
thank u.u know who u all are...
I'm glad you are staying too Binbob, don't give in to bully tactics!
Glad you have decided to stay Binbob. There are lots of us here who enjoy your posts and we all get rattled from time to time about the things we are pasionate about. Look forward to seeing your further posts on many subjects.
Lolabelle
09-Feb-09, 09:17
Dogs are animals, and as such will kill. I have 2 lovely big hunting bred dogs. They are family pets, and have never even looked like biting anyone, but I wouldn't trust them as far as I can kick them. In a pack they will react as thier instincts direct. It's called nature. So I don't let kids eat near them, or play with them unsupervised. It's just not worth the risk. And small dogs have the same instincts, it's animal first, then breed.
Jack Russells are terriers too, and hunting dogs
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ee/Jack-russel.patch-snow.jpg/180px-Jack-russel.patch-snow.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jack-russel.patch-snow.jpg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jack-russel.patch-snow.jpg)
A Jack Russell in a snow patch.
The Jack Russell is first and foremost a working terrier. Originally bred to bolt fox from their dens during hunts, they are used on numerous ground-dwelling quarry such as groundhog, badger, and red and grey fox.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] The working JRT is required to locate quarry in the earth, and then either bolt or hold it in place until it is dug to. To accomplish this the dog must bark and work the quarry continuously. Because the preservation of this working ability is of highest importance to most registered breeders Jack Russells tend to be extremely intelligent, athletic, fearless, and vocal dogs. It is not uncommon for these dogs to become moody or destructive if they are not properly stimulated and exercised as they have a tendency to bore easily and will often create their own fun when left alone to entertain themselves.
Their high energy and drive make these dogs ideally suited to a number of different dog sports such as flyball or agility. Obedience classes are also recommended to potential owners as Jack Russells can be stubborn at times and aggressive towards other animals and humans if not properly socialized (a process that should continue throughout their whole lives). Despite their small size, these dogs are not recommended for the condominium or apartment dweller unless the owner is ready to take on the daunting task of providing the dog with the necessary amount of exercise and stimulation. These are truly a big dog in a small package, and most suffer from a "Napoleon complex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_complex)", which can sometimes lead to trouble involving larger animals. The JRT owner must be aware of these tendencies and keep an eye out for trouble in many situations.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Russell_Terrier#cite_note-1)
The Jack Russell Terrier can cohabit with well behaved children but both dog and child need to be properly introduced and educated on how to behave towards one another. JRTs are also extremely loyal towards their owners, and highly territorial. If a Jack Russell decides that something belongs to it, even the most persuasive owner is unlikely to convince them otherwise.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
Despite some of these negative traits JRTs are exceptionally loving, intelligent dogs who have the ability to entertain their owners for hours with their comical antics.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] To understand the Jack Russell temperament, it must be remembered that they are first and foremost a working dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_dog). In other words, they were bred to aggressively run, chase, and flush out fox and badgers in the great hunts of England. These traits, so passionately guarded by Jack Russell breeders since the 19th century, have delivered to us a dog that is fearless, happy, alert, confident, intelligent and lively. A dog that is ready to meet the world on a moment's notice; this is the Jack Russell temperament in a nutshell.[citation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)
Not mauled but I have heard of babies being smothered by cats.
Complete myth. Absolute folklore. Oldwives tale. Cats generally dislike the smell of human breath and will avoid it (unless you just ate a juicy tuna steak which I think we can all agree most babies don't do).
What is dangerous are owners who have no idea of their dogs' needs, behaviours and psycology. These two dogs, from what was described in the news, were behaving exactly as a pack of dogs do. The fact that they were dominant agressive and of superior status in the pack was down to their owner, who allowed the staffie to be pack leader. A stressor was badly introduced to the pack, in the form of a new member, by the weakest pack member. The dominant dog choose not to accept this new member. The weakest pack member left the baby unattended/unsupervised/in a room with dogs she obviously did not understand. So the dominant dogs did what dogs do in a pack with a problem. The dog owner, the scient and responsible individual in this sad story, did not take the care that was needed because she was complacent with her animals. The unfortunate result is another family destroyed, a grandmother who will blame herself alot more than anyone else will and yet another dog/breed vilified for having an inadequate owner.
theres a lot of ignorant people out there who shouldnt have dogs .i know a couple who live nearby who have 3 kids under 7,the youngest still in a pram who have tooken on a staffie aged 5 because the owner doesnt want it.this dog is left indoors much of the day because they havent got the time or energy to walk it.dont people realise these dogs need a lot of exercise.a dog couped up all day is just asking for trouble and with 3 kids around .how does that family trust a dog they havent brought up from puppyhood and how can they be sure its safe around their children.this same dog got loose one day and jumped my fence into my garden and attacked my dog,my husband tried to get a grip of it but it had no coller on so it was difficult .we eventually turned the hose on him and that saw him off.the police were useless,they didnt want to know.will it take a tragedy to make them waken up,i really hope not
was interested to read this as my neighbours dog also jumps fence when i walk past.it has always done this whether i had dogs with me or not and it then one day decided to attack and has now done this to all three of my dogs.i tried to grab its collar and it turned on me,thankfully i pulled my hand away.i hit it and im not ashamed to say kicked it,the owner came out and shouted a lot too and it still wouldnt stop.dont know what made it stop but it just jumped back into its garden and that was it. police did nothing,although they did have a word with neighbour and they said they would make garden secure.nothing has happened yet though and meanwhile i cant walk my dogs as we have to pass this house.
It can be any dog:
"Six people, including two children, were injured when they were attacked by two German shepherd dogs which ran loose in Filton, Bristol."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7879021.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7879021.stm)
Our nextdoor neighbour has a big dog who barks like mad when anyone goes near their garden. This dog has also chased our 7 year old up the driveway while he screamed in terror...what did neighbour do? Laugh and say "Poor baby".
This is a man in his late 50's/early 60's and he think his dogs behaviour is funny. We can't walk out the door if his dog is loose without it running over and barking like mad at us.
People never seem to think their dogs behaviour is dangerous...
Moderator
09-Feb-09, 16:24
Thread will be closed if it continues down the road of personal attacks.
porshiepoo
09-Feb-09, 16:45
Whilst 'blaming' the dogs would be folly. Your post suggests a certain understanding of pet dogs eating babes in arms. A 'pet' conditioned into domesticity will not usually try to eat children. These dogs, whatever pre-programmed genetic condition urged them to do so
acted abnormally and although 'blame' is meaningless a certain degree of indignant bewilderment and total intolerance to this kind of savage, bestial behaviour is understandable. We expect more from our pets ! We usually get it.
I'm glad the dogs were destroyed whether to 'blame' or not.
Blame is a human reaction to a human emotion. It would be entirely ill fitting in a canine concept. Dogs brains are deficient...yet often seem superior to some of the idiots who parade them up and down our streets.
These dogs were actually NOT behaving abnormally for the animal.
Perhaps they were behaving abnormally for what we define a "pet conditioned into domesticity" should, however, that just proves that it is the ignorant human who is at fault.
No matter what kind of training / conditioning we undertake with dogs we cannot forget that they are first and foremost an animal with hunting and survival instincts.
We may choose to tell ourselves that dear old Fido would never do such a mad or "savage" or "abnormal" thing but without a true, indepth understanding of the canine brain it is ignorant of us to assume such a thing.
Instinct will always, always be prevalent in canines and as Instinct is not a learned behaviour it can never be bred out. Any key stimulus such as a crying baby CAN (not definately will) trigger an instinctual behaviour.
If a person decided to take a Lion cub into his home and is one day found to have been attacked and killed by the Lion what would the majority of peoples reaction be?
I bet 99.9% would either say, Stupid idiot for A) having a lion in the first place and B) thinking he could domesticate it and expect it to behave as a human would in an unnatural enviroment.
The same goes for the canine. Although we have domesticated it to an extent we will never change it from what it is - an animal, a canine, and as such will never eradicate its canine / animal instinct.
In answer to your comment, yes, I do "understand" a dog killing a human, I understand the nature of the animal and I understand how a circumstance can result in what happened to this child.
But that does not mean that I have no sympathy for the parents and grandmother of the child, of course I do I'm a mother myself, however I also have sympathy for the dogs who were reacting as their instinct dictates they always will.
One of the few ways to help eradicate these tragic incidences is education and by education I mean an understanding of a pack mentality.
I'm not saying we should all become Dog Whisperers but there are many many simple behaviours that we can put into play that will help establish a pack leadership.
This kind of understanding is an absolute must as far as I am concerned because the more we attempt to humanise these animals instead of understanding how they work, the more of these maulings are going to occur.
Our only way at the moment is to categorise certain breeds as "dangerous dogs" :confused, it's bizarre really especially as ALL breeds have the ability to be dangerous in the wrong hands.
If we all start to understand that and look at how we can work with our dogs to prevent it then the happier we'll all be - man and dog.
porshiepoo
09-Feb-09, 17:02
Our nextdoor neighbour has a big dog who barks like mad when anyone goes near their garden. This dog has also chased our 7 year old up the driveway while he screamed in terror...what did neighbour do? Laugh and say "Poor baby".
This is a man in his late 50's/early 60's and he think his dogs behaviour is funny. We can't walk out the door if his dog is loose without it running over and barking like mad at us.
People never seem to think their dogs behaviour is dangerous...
And it's idiots like that that actually cause half of these attacks by dogs.[evil]
How can any person - male / female, young / old actually think that that kind of behaviour from a dog is funny or acceptable?
I hope there hasn't been any lasting scars to your son? Has it made him afraid of dogs?
All I can suggest is informing the relevant authorities every single time he allows the dog to behave this way.
I know it would probably be very difficult to do but please do try to completely ignore the dog. Do not make any eye contact with it, do not speak to it and try your damndest not to run from it. (I am assuming you have a boundary wall between you here?)
Whenever you go out the door, take a deep breath, head up, shoulders back and try to walk calmly to your gate.
I'm not saying it'll work but it just may make it back off if it doesn't see you as a weak energy.
Screaming kids will have a disastrous effect on an unstable dog.
I know it's not fair that your kids shouldn't be able to jump, scream and do whatever the heck they want in their own front yard but I would suggest that until there is some resolution to this problem that you explain to the kids that the dog must only ever see a calm energy from them.
Scream and jump etc whenever the dogs inside by all means but not when he's out.
The owner of this dog needs to be strung up and prevented from ever having dogs as far as I am concerned.
There is a huge possibility of this dog doing some damage to someone in the future and unfortunately there's as much chance that nothing will get done about the man until something does happen.
I really hope you manage to get this sorted. You should not have to put up with being terrorised by a dog whose owner finds it amusing.
percy toboggan
09-Feb-09, 18:56
when i mentioned it to my vet,he said to be carefull as i had a young child and because they were not a recognised kc breed i could be getting anything and they could be very aggresive.
Non- kc breeds are the best of the lot - they call 'em mongrels down here !
Vets love pedigree dogs with all their inbred defects.
Gimme a mutt anytime.
All dogs have the potential to be aggressive towards children. Now the headlines states child killed by SBT and Jack Russel. well lets look at both dogs in the sense of which is more likely to attack.
We all know what a staffie is capable of but i found this on the JR.
Im shocked as i never thought JR were this hard to handle. now it explains why many are rehomed before one.
http://www.therealjackrussell.com/breed/baddog.php
I feel for the parents of this child and i hope that they will be able to forgive the mother who left the child alone with these dogs.
percy toboggan
09-Feb-09, 19:43
These dogs were actually NOT behaving abnormally for the animal....
.
an emphatic reply but a wrong one.
You mistake the term 'normal' for natural. It is NOT normal for dogs to try to eat babies...although it may be natural.
Therefore the dogs were acting abnormally...it's all in the language.
Your other points had some validity.
Ju: Another emphatic dismissal...often your trade mark - 'old wives tales...cats smothering infants.'
It's happened. Indeed it happened less than half a mile from my parents house in 1959. The cat didn't mean to do it...nobody attached blame...apparently it fell asleep across a three week old babies face. Cat was attracted by the warmth and the traces of milk I expect.
Connolly47uk
09-Feb-09, 19:49
a hink staffys are gr8 dogs its the way the ppl treat them
percy toboggan
09-Feb-09, 19:55
Our nextdoor neighbour has a big dog who barks like mad when anyone goes near their garden. This dog has also chased our 7 year old up the driveway while he screamed in terror...what did neighbour do? Laugh and say "Poor baby".
This is a man in his late 50's/early 60's and he think his dogs behaviour is funny. We can't walk out the door if his dog is loose without it running over and barking like mad at us.
People never seem to think their dogs behaviour is dangerous...
If this dog, or any other came close to me or mine and invoked terror on a regular basis I would not hesitate to clobber it. I used to be a Postman c.1970's , long, long ago...and found the best form of defence against angry , territorial or vicious dogs to be 'attack' Make a lot of noise....buy a baseball bat. If the old bloke reacts badly tell him to consider taxidermy.
I was bitten once - by a Weimaraner thing - smoky grey with evil eyes like glaciers...cold and haunting. The companies Boss made light of it...he had to collect the mail for the next three months because I didn't.
I took on two Lassie type
Collies on their own front path one day and they ran off...not to be seen for hours apparently. (Iwas shaken by the experience)
A discarded stilletto shoe proved ideal ammunition for a brief encounter with a staffordshire bull terrier type mutt....stocky ,plug ugly and loose on a particularly rough estate. It advanced baring teeth and growling. I was a bit feart ! Yelling made it stop in its tracks...kiciking it in the head made it turn around in flight as I picked up the shoe and caught it right up the 'arris.
I like dogs but I know their place...which is not causing a nuisance much less attacking folk.
Short shrift is all they deserve when they do.
I might not be quite so gung-ho nowadays but I'd not think twice about hurting a dog that wanted to hurt me....or mine.
For people being bothered by neighbours dogs here in Uk maybe you could quote the government policy to the police.
Dogs out of control in a public place
If a dog is dangerously out of control in a public place - then the owner or the person in charge of the dog is guilty of an offence, or, if the dog while so out of control injures any person, an aggravated offence under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991. In proceedings against a person who is the owner of a dog but at the material time was not in charge of it, it should be a defence for the accused to prove that the dog was at the material time in the charge of a person whom he reasonably believed to be a fit and proper person to be in charge of it.
Section 10(2) of the 1991 Act defines a public place as meaning any street, road or other place to which the public have, or are permitted to have access. This is a wide definition of a public place and one which specifically includes the common parts of a building containing two or more dwellings. It is intended to cover, for instance, those parts of a block of flats where, although there may be a secure front entry door so that the interior of the flat is not a place to which the public has unrestricted access, nevertheless the common parts are, in all other respects, a public place.
A person found guilty of an offence may face imprisonment or a fine, and the courts may disqualify the offender from having custody of a dog for any period
thanks unicorn.i know that failing to to control a dog in a public place is an offence,and the policeman i spoke to was very understanding and agreed with me.lets just say my neighbour is in the same line of work though and is in complete denial about her dogs behaviour.
there is only one other neighbour that has to pass her house and they no longer walk their dog past,as they can go out in the fields,which is what i would do,but we have in lamb sheep in ours and i have a pram to push so the fields are out of bounds for me.she did suggest that i phone every day when i am going out,this is totally unreasonable and would solve nothing as i could be gone for half an hour or three hours,maybe im supposed to call from my mobile when im on my way home too!!
porshiepoo
10-Feb-09, 00:39
an emphatic reply but a wrong one.
You mistake the term 'normal' for natural. It is NOT normal for dogs to try to eat babies...although it may be natural.
Therefore the dogs were acting abnormally...it's all in the language.
Your other points had some validity.
Ju: Another emphatic dismissal...often your trade mark - 'old wives tales...cats smothering infants.'
It's happened. Indeed it happened less than half a mile from my parents house in 1959. The cat didn't mean to do it...nobody attached blame...apparently it fell asleep across a three week old babies face. Cat was attracted by the warmth and the traces of milk I expect.
Hmmm, I beg to differ. If a certain behaviour is instinctual then it is "normal" for the animal displaying it.
Percy Toboggan: Heroic and warranted as your past behaviour may have been, I certainly would not recommend that a mother with children attempts to take on a dog of any kind.
Perhaps you've been lucky in the sense that your retaliation made the animal think twice but it could just as easily turned out differently.
What is dangerous are owners who have no idea of their dogs' needs, behaviours and psycology. These two dogs, from what was described in the news, were behaving exactly as a pack of dogs do. The fact that they were dominant agressive and of superior status in the pack was down to their owner, who allowed the staffie to be pack leader. A stressor was badly introduced to the pack, in the form of a new member, by the weakest pack member. The dominant dog choose not to accept this new member. The weakest pack member left the baby unattended/unsupervised/in a room with dogs she obviously did not understand. So the dominant dogs did what dogs do in a pack with a problem. The dog owner, the scient and responsible individual in this sad story, did not take the care that was needed because she was complacent with her animals. The unfortunate result is another family destroyed, a grandmother who will blame herself alot more than anyone else will and yet another dog/breed vilified for having an inadequate owner. Spot on. A family I knew had a German Shepherd. The family was made up of mother, father and several grown up children from 40 years old downwards. Eventually the elderly father died and, what had been a calm quiet family pet suddenly began attacking the other family members.
They just couldn't understand the reason. It turns out that the father had been the person who was in charge of the dog and on his death had decided that it was time to make a bid for "Top Dog".
The only solution, before any of the family got seriously injured, was to have the dog put down because it was not going to accepts anybody else in place of the father as pack leader.
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