View Full Version : Benefits??
Got this email 2day and wondered what every1 else thought on the matter? I have to say i totally agree!
THIS GUY MAKES A GOOD POINT
This was written by a rig worker in North Sea - he makes a lot of sense!
I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to earn that pay cheque, I work on a rig for a drilling contractor. I am required to pass a random urine test, with which I have no problem.
What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a benefits cheque because I have to pass one to earn it for them?
Please understand that I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do on the other hand have a problem with helping someone sit on their backsides drinking alcohol, putting heroin in their veins, or smoking dope or crack.
Could you imagine how much money the government would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a "benefits" cheque? Please pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don't.
Hope you will pass it along though, because something has to change in the UK and soon!
Also reckon there could be a system where folks on benefits have to do some sort of community work for there benefits. Nobody owes anyone a living as far as im concerned, there are lots of able bodied folk out there who have never worked and have no intention to either why should i pay there keep?
Anyway thoughts and suggestions?!
robbie_roost
02-Feb-09, 21:56
quite right, would certainly cut down the dole queue save us taxpayers a fortune!!
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/politics/Duke-says-he-is-the.4863821.jp
Paste the above link into your browser and send it to the man on the rigs and ask him if he would like this guy to have a urine test too before he gets his benefits from the taxman.
butterfly
02-Feb-09, 22:05
SJR014,good comment.i know a few who have never worked in their life and there is nowt wrong with them
Penelope Pitstop
02-Feb-09, 22:05
That's an excellent e-mail. I'd forward it on to Gordon Brown asap.
Yeah im not against Benefits as a stop gap measure and i understand that it is difficult for single parents etc but some folk are on them all there life and never do a days graft in their life! Seems rather unfair that i should be forced to taxes to keep such people? I certainly don't owe them a living!
Damn good idea! I've seen a lot of people who's only job seems to be 'signing on' and bleeding the benefit system dry, if you are fit and able get a job!
There are a certain percentage of folk on the dole that have no intention of ever working again, these 'long-term claimants' should be kept an eye on and a way sought for them to contribute to society to earn their benefits.
Drugs testing is a great idea, no point paying out hard-earned tax-payers cash just to be swigged or inhaled by families who knowingly rape the system while waiting for the next giro to arrive.
crashbandicoot1979
02-Feb-09, 22:33
Totally agree! I'm not against benefits as I don't grudge genuine cases getting help, e.g folk taking time out to start a family, single parents with young children, people who genuinely can't find work, sick/disabled etc as I could easily be in one of those situations one day myself. But there are plenty who never bother even trying to find work and there are plenty ripping off the system too.
I'm completely behind the idea of those on job seekers doing community work in order to get their money. It would give them something to do and be a boost for their CV as it would give them experience.
ShelleyCowie
02-Feb-09, 23:50
i completely agree!
I know a few people who have absolutely nothing wrong with them and yet they would rather sit and do nothing but drink all day!! Its rediculous!
A type of community service would be good! What would they rather do....earn a decent amount of money or do community service for the money they get! Im sure there are plenty of jobs that can be done around peoples communitys!
teenybash
03-Feb-09, 00:41
Definately a good one..spot on, best idea yet.
changilass
03-Feb-09, 00:47
Its not as easy as just getting folks to do community service, they would need supervision and public liability insurance and gowd only knows what else. Then there would be uproar about human rights, its just never gonna work.
We need a benefit system, but where there is a system, you will alus find folks that can find a way round it. If they put half the effort into getting a job as they do trying to beat the system then they would be bliddy hard workers.
butterfly
03-Feb-09, 02:18
Its not as easy as just getting folks to do community service, they would need supervision and public liability insurance and gowd only knows what else. Then there would be uproar about human rights, its just never gonna work.
We need a benefit system, but where there is a system, you will alus find folks that can find a way round it. If they put half the effort into getting a job as they do trying to beat the system then they would be bliddy hard workers.
well why not give them medicals to see if they are fit for work,this country is too soft
Methinks whoever started circulating this spam was extracting the urine, not giving a sample. :roll:
butterfly
03-Feb-09, 03:25
Methinks whoever started circulating this spam was extracting the urine, not giving a sample. :roll:
layabouts can be a touchy subject eh(for some anyway,no one in particular);)
Certainly is. It's surprising how hot under the collar some people can get about the subject especially when it comes to wild generalizations which they would object to most strongly if they were aimed at most other groups.
butterfly
03-Feb-09, 03:38
Certainly is. It's surprising how hot under the collar some people can get about the subject especially when it comes to wild generalizations which they would object to most strongly if they were aimed at most other groups.
what other groups.explain
Race, religion, nationality, need I go on?
butterfly
03-Feb-09, 03:53
Race, religion, nationality, need I go on?
this thread is not about any of the above. you will have to start a thread if you want to discuss the above.you cant change peoples opinions either.....
Metalattakk
03-Feb-09, 04:13
Methinks whoever started circulating this spam was extracting the urine, not giving a sample. :roll:
Not often I say it, but spot on.
This is just another ruse to gather email addresses for spammers to profit from. Any email that implores you to 'pass it on' is no more than a collection trap for spammers.
Not only is your email address being collected, every one of the email addresses you send it to is as well.
Just don't do it folks.
butterfly
03-Feb-09, 04:39
i have not passed anything on,merely commenting on a thread thats all,just like all the previous posters.
I notice that a few people mention "single parents" being entitled,but what about families that have 2 parents but both decide to stay at home and look after them, while the tax payer pays for this (and all the little extra help they get), is that wrong as well? Personally i think it is,.Its far too easy to say that they "need" to stay at home to look after kids but many years ago fathers had to go out and work to pay for their brood.Now with Britains Nanny state they find ways round it.
Alice in Blunderland
03-Feb-09, 08:52
IMHO its the system thats wrong. As long as we have a system in place which makes it so easy to abuse then there will always be a few who no matter what will abuse it. :(
No matter how many bottles you ask them to pee in or what blood test you look for there will still be a certain few who will always be out to milk the system in its present state and will get past the tests.
I notice that a few people mention "single parents" being entitled,but what about families that have 2 parents but both decide to stay at home and look after them, while the tax payer pays for this (and all the little extra help they get), is that wrong as well? Personally i think it is,.Its far too easy to say that they "need" to stay at home to look after kids but many years ago fathers had to go out and work to pay for their brood.Now with Britains Nanny state they find ways round it.
Well im a single parent and i manage no bother to go out and work to provide for my child. Nobody owes her a living except for myself! And that is the morals i would hope to instill on her! Sitting on your backside won't get you anywhere! Well in my opinion.
The price of freedom is a systym that doesnt discriminate. I know people who milk the system . They can have it along with their grubby little life style. I wouldnt want it. Keeping them alive is punishment enough.
Whilst the powers that be rake billions, yes billions out of the public pot all you lot moan about are the socially disadvantaged amongst us. Yes, and theres quite a few who are not so disadvantaged who also milk the system. That privelaged scrounger whom I linked in an earlier post. He is lining his nest with 100 million of our money and he still says it's not enough and not one of you has commented.
How come all these people who fund their horrible habits partly from the public purse get in that state to start with? That's where that aristocratic scroungers millions should be diverted. To educating people who somehow after 11 years national service as children still dont have a social conscience. How do they slip the net? What exactly are the powers that be doing about it? How many extra special schools could be built with the monies that educated scroungers skim off the top of the public pot. I remember 40 years ago our own local aristocrats father raked hundreds of thousands off the public pot not to develop an area of bogland to protect some red spider who happened to live there. How many millions is that at todays values?
How many more of these legal benefits are being paid to the great and the good? Just look at the apparent corruption oozing from our highest court in the land at the moment. Do you think its ok? Individuals getting paid for changing the will of parliament and all caithness.org can moan about are a bunch of socially unaware neurotics whose nurturing has fallen well short of expected standards.
Of course something needs to be done but hows about wising up to the scroungers at the top end of the market. Stop pointing the fingers at the disadvantaged whilst the advantaged sneak out the back door with their nest warmly lined and their futures assured, unlike most of us.
Penelope Pitstop
03-Feb-09, 12:13
My guess is alot of the aristocrats wouldn't pass the pee test either:confused
Although they are the ones that are pulling the pee.....
I am afraid that no matter what is tried/done the ones that choose to play the system will continue to do. I doubt that there are many of us who arent aware of at least one person who claims everything and does nothing.I have admitted that I am on benefits and I must admit when I read threads like this I feel awful that I am one of the "drains on society" but at the moment there's nothing suitable for me.Not that long ago I applied for a job that I was qualified to do and would have suited me well as it was school hours so no worries about childcare,the job went to a woman who had no qualifications and certainly no idea what "client confidentuality" was :eek: but she had been "helping out" and knew the client so it was decided that the job should be hers.Many would argue that it was a fair enough decision to make,I am not really arguing that it wasnt but the point was even though I was more qualified and have no partner in fulltime work the job was given to someone without the qualifications who also had a partner in fulltime employment therefore making their family a two income home while I stay on benefits.I do voluntary work which I really love doing,but if it was compulsory all that would happen is some people would be forced into doing it while the "slackers" found ways of avoiding it! x
I know people who milk the system .
.
Report them here.
https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/
Penelope Pitstop
03-Feb-09, 15:46
I am afraid that no matter what is tried/done the ones that choose to play the system will continue to do. I doubt that there are many of us who arent aware of at least one person who claims everything and does nothing.I have admitted that I am on benefits and I must admit when I read threads like this I feel awful that I am one of the "drains on society" but at the moment there's nothing suitable for me.Not that long ago I applied for a job that I was qualified to do and would have suited me well as it was school hours so no worries about childcare,the job went to a woman who had no qualifications and certainly no idea what "client confidentuality" was :eek: but she had been "helping out" and knew the client so it was decided that the job should be hers.Many would argue that it was a fair enough decision to make,I am not really arguing that it wasnt but the point was even though I was more qualified and have no partner in fulltime work the job was given to someone without the qualifications who also had a partner in fulltime employment therefore making their family a two income home while I stay on benefits.I do voluntary work which I really love doing,but if it was compulsory all that would happen is some people would be forced into doing it while the "slackers" found ways of avoiding it! x
You certainly don't sound like a "slacker" to me thumper. Hope you find a job soon.
As you know all too well voluntary work is very rewarding, but doesn't put food on the table. However, it does show that you are not a lazy so and so who likes to twiddle their thumbs...got to be a plus point to any prospective employer. Keep your chin up :D
well why not give them medicals to see if they are fit for work,this country is too soft
The Government already do this for people claiming Incapacity Benefits. They normally bring you in for reviews if you are a long-term claimant. Your own GP's word is not enough.
I suspect the email is a spoof. It certainly has zero chance of happening.
Report them here.
https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/
Thanks for the link A9Runner, that could come in handy one day!
You certainly don't sound like a "slacker" to me thumper. Hope you find a job soon.
As you know all too well voluntary work is very rewarding, but doesn't put food on the table. However, it does show that you are not a lazy so and so who likes to twiddle their thumbs...got to be a plus point to any prospective employer. Keep your chin up :D
Thank you very much Penelope Pitstop,that was very nice of you!:Dx
Thank you very much Penelope Pitstop,that was very nice of you!:Dx
One of the best jobs I ever had was through my efforts in the voluntary sector, I took along examples of my work on reports and policies and it swung it for me.
Good luck Thumper!
One of the best jobs I ever had was through my efforts in the voluntary sector, I took along examples of my work on reports and policies and it swung it for me.
Good luck Thumper!
Thanks Julia!I hate not being busy so my voluntary work keeps me sane,it is also the best "job" I have ever had with great people to work with and great job satisfaction x
butterfly
03-Feb-09, 17:17
I notice that a few people mention "single parents" being entitled,but what about families that have 2 parents but both decide to stay at home and look after them, while the tax payer pays for this (and all the little extra help they get), is that wrong as well? Personally i think it is,.Its far too easy to say that they "need" to stay at home to look after kids but many years ago fathers had to go out and work to pay for their brood.Now with Britains Nanny state they find ways round it.
agree with you on that hotrod.its not the disadvantaged that we are talking about its them that wont get off their backsides and earn a crust like the rest of us have to:mad:
Alice in Blunderland
03-Feb-09, 18:55
This one can be debated forever it will always be there until a better system is put in place.
If the system itself is set up wrong then there will always be the same old few who openly abuse it. :(
Will the answer truly be making those who claim jump through hoops to receive their money........................... I feel that that would penalise those who are honestly claiming.
I see where this email is coming from ..on an oil rigg in the middle of the sea working in an environment surrounded by so much danger.......... you can see why there are tests in place for workers a drunk or spaced worker could put many lives in danger.
I also work ...........in a much safer environment pay my taxes and dont have to pee in anything other than the toilet. [lol]
If you go down the road of dictating what you can and cant do with the money once its given to the recipient ie drink and drugs then thats opening up a can of worms..........where would it end ?
My parents receive the winter fuel payment.............some of that money goes on Christmas presents as Im sure many other pensioners do with some of there allowance.
If someone claiming tax credits fancies a bottle of wine or two or smokes and sticks this in the shopping can they be told no thats not what the money is for ?
Family allowance how many people spend it directly on the child ?
These are all just thoughts you could say playing devils advocate. ;)
The government have set up the system to be as it is today and its down to them to change it and tighten it up making it less easy to abuse or milk.
We are lucky in this country to have a safety net in the social security system in place to help those who are less fortunate than others its when the safety net becomes a security blanket thats when it all goes wrong.
I am afraid that no matter what is tried/done the ones that choose to play the system will continue to do. I doubt that there are many of us who arent aware of at least one person who claims everything and does nothing.I have admitted that I am on benefits and I must admit when I read threads like this I feel awful that I am one of the "drains on society" but at the moment there's nothing suitable for me.Not that long ago I applied for a job that I was qualified to do and would have suited me well as it was school hours so no worries about childcare,the job went to a woman who had no qualifications and certainly no idea what "client confidentuality" was :eek: but she had been "helping out" and knew the client so it was decided that the job should be hers.Many would argue that it was a fair enough decision to make,I am not really arguing that it wasnt but the point was even though I was more qualified and have no partner in fulltime work the job was given to someone without the qualifications who also had a partner in fulltime employment therefore making their family a two income home while I stay on benefits.I do voluntary work which I really love doing,but if it was compulsory all that would happen is some people would be forced into doing it while the "slackers" found ways of avoiding it! x
Why should u feel awful u are actively looking and trying for jobs! And hats off to you for doing voluntary work. There is masses who are happy 2 never work and life off the state!
piratelassie
03-Feb-09, 23:02
How do people manage to sit back and get benefits. I tried, and tried and got nothing. Worked the last 30 yrs but have taken time of due to cancer and havin a big op., So got no help at all for perscriptions, petrol etc., because I didn't have enough N I stamps payed over the last two years. But I will get my full pension when the time comes. :~(
I've been reading this thread and couldn't get a chance to post until now because I was too busy working but now I've come home and unwound.
I've felt the most affinity towards Gleebers posts. The painting was originally bought with the money that was robbed off crofters in the clearances and now being paid for again with taxpayers money.
Penelope Pitstop
03-Feb-09, 23:15
I've been reading this thread and couldn't get a chance to post until now because I was too busy working but now I've come home and unwound.
I've felt the most affinity towards Gleebers posts. The painting was originally bought with the money that was robbed off crofters in the clearances and now being paid for again with taxpayers money.
Yip, disgusting isn't it.
You know what they say.....money makes money:(
I'm unsure if the painting was bought for £50million - when I heard the news the other night I thought the £50million just paid for its loan for 21 years...??????? Hope I'm wrong.
I don't envy anyone on benefits. I don't believe they have this 'luxury lifestyle', nor do I believe that they they sit about drinking, or injecting drugs all day (not paid for with benefit anyway).
Most people I have met who are long-term unemployed have lost their hope and self-respect. But it's much simpler to lump them altogether and assume they're all lazy, layabouts and scroungers, who are holidaying in the Bahamas three times a year. Let's not regard them as human beings, or try to figure out the reasons why they are unable/ unwilling to get a job. Instead, let's brand them as worthless individuals, who are deliberately draining us 'worthwhile' people, who have jobs. There will always be those who cheat the system. It's inevitable. I'd rather have a humane society where everyone can eat, even if it does mean a few people are cheats.
And yes I am a lefty liberal and proud of it. I have been unemployed. I have been desperate for work. I have scrubbed floors etc. etc. etc.. I have been willing to scrub floors and still been unable to secure any kind of work. Sometimes we find ourselves in situations that we didn't envisage. There but for the grace of God.........
This doesn't make me more judgemental; it makes me less so.
I don't envy anyone on benefits. I don't believe they have this 'luxury lifestyle', nor do I believe that they they sit about drinking, or injecting drugs all day (not paid for with benefit anyway).
Most people I have met who are long-term unemployed have lost their hope and self-respect. But it's much simpler to lump them altogether and assume they're all lazy, layabouts and scroungers, who are holidaying in the Bahamas three times a year. Let's not regard them as human beings, or try to figure out the reasons why they are unable/ unwilling to get a job. Instead, let's brand them as worthless individuals, who are deliberately draining us 'worthwhile' people, who have jobs. There will always be those who cheat the system. It's inevitable. I'd rather have a humane society where everyone can eat, even if it does mean a few people are cheats.
And yes I am a lefty liberal and proud of it. I have been unemployed. I have been desperate for work. I have scrubbed floors etc. etc. etc.. I have been willing to scrub floors and still been unable to secure any kind of work. Sometimes we find ourselves in situations that we didn't envisage. There but for the grace of God.........
This doesn't make me more judgemental; it makes me less so.
I thoroughly agree. My Brother-In-Law recently lost his Wife. He had given up work 10 years ago to care for his Wife after she had suffered a stroke and Ovarian Cancer at the same time. Working tirelessly for an approximate £40 per week Carers Allowance, he only managed to survive because of his Wife's Disability Living Allowance. His Mum died from Cancer only three weeks before his Wife did and his own health has deteriorated because of the hours and effort he put in trying to be there for both of them 24/7. Now that his Wife has passed away, he now faces life on a sole, and total income, of £60 per week. Anyone like to swap places with him?
Of course, that is only one case but there are many more with similar tales to tell. I have had a couple of spells of unemployment and it really does knock your self-belief. Numerous knock backs lead to feelings of depression and hopelessness. It can lead to a rut that is hard to get out of, despite all the "Superb" Government Schemes designed to massage the unemployment figures, woops, err..... I mean get you back into work.
If there were no benefits system in the UK it would be like the Wild West, with crime rising sharply as people became desperate to eke out a living.
This thread has lots of interesting points. I just want to add my thoughts on some of the comments - not picking on anyone - just interested in the thread.
Starting with sjr014 - I agree this is a good idea in part - it would certainly sort out the wheat from the chaff - genuine people on benefits are sad at being looked upon as user’s. But I’m sure that people who have to give random urine test’s at work are for a safety reason.
Butterfly - good point but there is already a medical system set in place with random checks and constant reviews to see if the claimant has improved - in which case a program is put in place to help them back to work or in some cases their condition has deteriorated and they may qualify for more help.
Jaws - you may be right there! -may be it was a joke email.
Alice in Blunderland - I agree - some people will always find a way to abuse any system that is in place.
A9 Runner - Reporting the people abusing the system is great - however again, some genuine people can get caught up in this - it can be used as a way to get at someone who is not liked - believe me - it can happen, and even though they will be okay in the end and be in the clear, it still causes a lot of heartache and stress whilst the investigation goes on.
Loobyloo - I agree they certainly do not have a luxury lifestyle - in lots of cases it’s survival with a few treats.
I would like to think there are more genuine people on benefits than abusers. People who are on benefits are not proud that they can not provide for their families and would truly swap for good health and higher income if they could.
It is a shame that the faults in the system allows for people to abuse a system that was fought for in the first place. I think an answer could be for the UK to adopt a system like other countries - if people from the UK want to emigrate you have to prove you have a job and place a large monetary bond to support yourself. As we all know here, you can arrive with nothing and instantly be funded by the government - sorry if that last bit relates to any other thread - so yes there is a need for something to stop the abusers - but I’m not sure that urine tests and anonymous websites are the way forward - the later certainly can cause lots of heartache.
Cheers and I hope I haven’t offended anyone.
Well I cant believe what one says. I know an old lady who has severe disability and she says she has never been so well off. I know what she gets in benefits although she worked hard all her days and she is so appreciative.
I know that she gets more than some on a pension with a private pension so come on there is no one struggling out there.
More to the point I also know someone who has two jobs one part time and one full time who gets a working disabilty and has never had medicals since getting same some 10 years ago so where is the justice??????
Its not funny struggling to survive especially if one needs a job for self respect if nothing else, but come on, all those single mothers where is the initiative to go out and work when one can stay at home and be better off???? The system certainly upsets me as I know many people need help but there is no one in poverty so what is the problem????? It pays to stay at home if you have one or two childrena and can only get a low paid job so do you blame them but there is a lot of disabilty ones that are escaping the net. Why are they not asked ?s after a year or two? Just wondering what the system is for disability related benefits??????Are they hauled in for medicals or is it the case that it is too time consuming and not cost effective??????
catran (http://forum.caithness.org/member.php?u=9350)
http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon1.gif Benefits
Well I cant believe what one says.
What one says ? is that me you are asking catran or the borad in general?
Cheers
I take it that the suggestion that urine samples should be taken before benefits are paid out is made on the assumption that virtually all people on benefits must be on them because they are either drunks and/or junkies.
Well I cant believe what one says. I know an old lady who has severe disability and she says she has never been so well off. I know what she gets in benefits although she worked hard all her days and she is so appreciative.
I know that she gets more than some on a pension with a private pension so come on there is no one struggling out there.
More to the point I also know someone who has two jobs one part time and one full time who gets a working disabilty and has never had medicals since getting same some 10 years ago so where is the justice??????
Its not funny struggling to survive especially if one needs a job for self respect if nothing else, but come on, all those single mothers where is the initiative to go out and work when one can stay at home and be better off???? The system certainly upsets me as I know many people need help but there is no one in poverty so what is the problem????? It pays to stay at home if you have one or two childrena and can only get a low paid job so do you blame them but there is a lot of disabilty ones that are escaping the net. Why are they not asked ?s after a year or two? Just wondering what the system is for disability related benefits??????Are they hauled in for medicals or is it the case that it is too time consuming and not cost effective??????
I disagree catran,I AM a single mother and I recieve the princely sum of £60.50 a week!Out of this I have to pay £40 a week just to heat the house (barely enough to say that is is warm at any time)so there are plenty out there who are not living "the good life"Would I be better off in work?certainly I would,would I feel better about myself?Yes I would!Do I feel a low sense of self worth when people assume that I am just lazing around doing nothing and reaping the rewards?....Hell yes!It is very easy for people in employment to belittle those that are not,but it would do everyone well to think ....there but for the grace of god go I!x
I take it that the suggestion that urine samples should be taken before benefits are paid out is made on the assumption that virtually all people on benefits must be on them because they are either drunks and/or junkies.
Hi Jaws
From what I understand at the start if this thread the suggestion of urine samples is for the people who are incapable of work due to being drug/drink reliant.
"What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a benefits cheque because I have to pass one to earn it for them?" - quote
However - it has generlised all benefit claimers, which I think is unfair. It may be a good idea to use the benefit money to put them into rehab? who knows. I feel that although the sender of the email was feeling angry, and in their opinion felt that if they have to take the the test so should the people who they think benefit from their contribution was misplaced in attacking all benefit claimers.
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.