View Full Version : Carrying Driving Licence in UK
brokencross
20-Jan-09, 09:02
Heard a radio interview about a chap who was stopped in his car and detained for not having his driving licence on him. (Don't know if he had any other ID on him, so that may have been the reason). I always thought it was NOT a requirement to carry your licence with you when driving, but if requested by a police officer you had to produce it at a police station within 5 days.
I can't find a definitive answer anywhere. It says before you can drive you must hold the appropriate licence but no must carry or not info.
Any Orgers help please?
it is not a requirement, though carrying 'some' kind of ID is ofcourse a good idea
dx
You don't have to carry a driving licence.
I suspect, as you did, that he wasn't carrying any other ID, even a bank card, and the police doubted his identity.
I know someone who borrowed a mates car, uninsured, then got stopped by the police. He gave his friends name address and date of birth. He got away with it.
The police were probably making sure this wasn't the case here.
brokencross
20-Jan-09, 10:18
Thanks for that! You have confirmed what I thought.
I only carry mine when I am going on holiday elsewhere in the UK, so I don't have to dash all the way back home if I have to produce it for any reason.
Just so you know, if you do get stopped elsewhere in the UK you can hand your documents in at your local police station!
I carry mine all the time but mainly as it's a small card and fits easily in my purse, I never carried my paper licence at all.
I think a lot of licence holders are unaware that the photo has to be changed every ten years or a £1000 fine will be issued. Do the DVLA inform licence holders when the ten years is up?
I carry mine all the time but mainly as it's a small card and fits easily in my purse, I never carried my paper licence at all.
I think a lot of licence holders are unaware that the photo has to be changed every ten years or a £1000 fine will be issued. Do the DVLA inform licence holders when the ten years is up?
Like you Julia, I carry mine in my wallet as it fits easily and it's useful ID to boot. I don't carry the accompanying piece of paper at all.
Cullpacket has started a new thread on the very subject of needing to renew photocards. I had no idea that this was the case -and that you had to pay for them! [evil] - and from what cullpacket is saying, it seems as if the DVLA don't send out reminders. :(
Valerie Campbell
20-Jan-09, 11:54
It's daft though. Those of us with a photo card also have the paper part, as mentioned, whereas before it was just the paper licence, so instead of cutting down on paperwork, the DVLA have created more! The photo card should be enough I reckon. I keep both in my handbag but the paper is slowly but surely being damaged.
I still have just my paper licence never bothered getting the photo one.
And no one has ever told me I should have a photo one so I'm not bothering to get one.??
Do you have to pay for the photo one, besides paying for the photographs ??
devil's sidekick
20-Jan-09, 12:26
you hand your documents in at your local police station with in 7 days.
AfternoonDelight
20-Jan-09, 12:31
It's daft though. Those of us with a photo card also have the paper part, as mentioned, whereas before it was just the paper licence, so instead of cutting down on paperwork, the DVLA have created more! The photo card should be enough I reckon. I keep both in my handbag but the paper is slowly but surely being damaged.
The paper bit is for recording your points (I should know!)...:roll:
I would also note that police can seize your vehicle if you don't have the appropriate driving license or Insurance. You get the car towed away and have to pay for the car being towed then a daily storage fee until you can prove that you are insured with correct license before you get your car back. You only get 2 weeks or the car gets crushed.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/police/powers/road-traffic/
It clearly states that you have Seven (7) days to produce your Documents at a Police Station.
When pulled over by the police, you may be asked to produce documents including:
driving licence
insurance certificate
vehicle registration document
If you don’t have these with you, you’ll be given seven days to produce them at a police station.
So not as you worded your post and the Police will not tow away your car if you can not produce your Documents there and then, you will get seven (7) Days.
I don't know if the police have automatic access to Driving Licence details. I know they do for Insurance and MOT details.
One driver was stopped from driving and his car was impounded for him allegedly having no insurance. He had, it turned out that the Insurance Company had slipped up and missed entering the details. It was sorted in the end and the Insurance Company reimbursed him.
As is well known, if it says it on the computer then it must be correct, computers are never wrong!
The tendency now is to arrest people where ever possible, especially south of the Border, for suspected offences however minor they are, that was they can add as many as possible to the DNA Database without having to bother passing a law making it compulsory.
I think that up here, north of the Border, the DNA sample is (supposedly) destroyed if you are not convicted of the offence.
England are currently fighting the Court of Human Rights who say they should do the same.
So not as you worded your post and the Police will not tow away your car if you can not produce your Documents there and then, you will get seven (7) Days.All that does is give you time to show that you do have the correct documentation without being subjected to prosecution.
It is done for no other reason than to prevent the court system being cluttered up with prosecutions which will eventually be thrown out at court when the correct documents are produced there.
I is up to the person using the vehicle to prove that they have all the correct documentation and until you can do that the presumption is that you committing an offence.
The presumption of being innocent until proven guilty is reversed in most cases when it comes to motoring offences.
it used to be 5 days to hand in identification some yrs ago...
FYI:
the 7 day wonder or producer or HORT1, is, in most stop instances, now obsolete.
as already mentioned, checks on ins/tax/mot are done now by anpr which is fitted or is readily available to most police officers via radio/phone - instantly.
typically they already know if you have all three [or not] by the time they have pulled you over.
the licence check is then done via radio/phone once driver details are established.
they now have the power to seize the vehicle instantly if you dont have them.
which leads to the above storage costs [£105 + £12 per day to a maximum 14days, then its the crusher!]
in exceptional circumstances a producer will be given for mot/lic but very rarely for ins & def not for licence! they no longer allow you to drive away an uninsured vehicle, though again in certain circumstances they may allow your own recovery, but this must be a atleast a two wheel raise.
as for carrying the required docs, there is no actual need as this is now checked instantly as described above.
it is not a case of guilty until you prove otherwise...they know thanks to the national databases. the only one they dont know instantly is licence, unti lthey have your details
dx
That is assuming the database is up to date and contains the correct information and also that the information is passed on correctly.
If your vehicle is impounded and you can later show that you have committed no offence regarding your documents you still have to pay well in excess of £100 to get your vehicle back.
As I said previously, guilty until you can prove yourself innocent, at great expense.
believe you me
its upto date.
just ask any motor insurer!
and no, you dont have to pay the pound fees if they are wrong.
but ofcourse they wouldn't of seized the car in the first place if they were.
dx
nuff said
The police have access to your driving licence etc on their computer so they can tell how many points you have. In fact they can get all sorts of details about you from your car number plate.
The police have access to your driving licence etc on their computer so they can tell how many points you have. In fact they can get all sorts of details about you from your car number plate.
there is no 'link' between a car numberplate and the driver on the database, as they do not physically know who is driving until the stop is put in and driver details are verified by some form of ID.
this is why they & the ANPR system primarily use the insurance marker.
Initially it only tells them 'if' the car is insured, stolen, MOT'ed & Taxed, but not by whom. If necessary further info can be brought up, i'e who has insured the vehicle, who is the registered keeper, their location etc etc
these are the only details that are held against your numberplate.
dx
From these posts...........
Guilty until proven innocent??
DNA sample for not having your Drivers licence???
Really.... Do you think sometimes people have a bit of a chip on their shoulders!!
there is no 'link' between a car numberplate and the driver on the database, as they do not physically know who is driving until the stop is put in and driver details are verified by some form of ID.
this is why they & the ANPR system primarily use the insurance marker.
Initially it only tells them 'if' the car is insured, stolen, MOT'ed & Taxed, but not by whom. If necessary further info can be brought up, i'e who has insured the vehicle, who is the registered keeper, their location etc etc
these are the only details that are held against your numberplate.
dx
As I said, your number plate can give all details about you, the owner, including your name address date of birth etc.
For what it is worth.......
Around the World the general difference between a Criminal Offence/Act and a Road Safety/ Highway Traffic Act Offence is that a Criminal Act needs to have 'Mens Rea' or as defined, the 'Guilty Mind'... In other words, Criminally one has to know what they are doing is or could be wrong.
In the Road Safety/ Highway Traffic Act Offences, you do not knowingly have to know that you are committing an offence... e.g. speeding is likely the most common one. As far as the Licence, Insurance and Ownership papers, again that thing called Common Sense enters into it........another e.g. If you do get pulled over and your Driver's Licence or other documents are requested, in my opinion it is better to have them with you so that you don't have to go to the added bother of bringing them into a Police Stn. for inspection.
In some Countries/ States/ Provinces is is mandatory that you carry your Drivers Licence with you, as sometimes one travels great distances, and unlike the UK., there is no Home Office, or one Policing Agency to deal with.
In Ontario, Canada there are 3 levels of Law Enforcement...Federal....RCMP, Provincial..The Ontario Provincial Police and then Municipal, which can mean that every Community/ City/ Town and Village can have their own Police Agency.
Thus it would be difficult to have documents traveling from one to the other.
And yes computerization is here, but again it is changing daily/ weekly & monthly and it is only as good as the 'timely' input of information and I emphasize 'Timely'.
Just some thoughs ...........
From these posts...........
Guilty until proven innocent??
DNA sample for not having your Drivers licence???
Really.... Do you think sometimes people have a bit of a chip on their shoulders!!
If the media are saying the driver was detained I would take it that he was arrested and taken to a police station. If you are taken into custody for any reason it is now routine to take a DNA sample.
Had he just been reported for not having a driving licence and his vehicle impounded then he would not have been described as "detained". In that case there would be no sample taken.
Detained, under those circumstances has a very specific meaning other than simply being held up for a time.
there is no 'link' between a car numberplate and the driver on the database, as they do not physically know who is driving until the stop is put in and driver details are verified by some form of ID.
this is why they & the ANPR system primarily use the insurance marker.
Initially it only tells them 'if' the car is insured, stolen, MOT'ed & Taxed, but not by whom. If necessary further info can be brought up, i'e who has insured the vehicle, who is the registered keeper, their location etc etc
these are the only details that are held against your numberplate.
dxSo there is no method of checking, within a reasonably short time, if a person whose full name is known has a driving licence?
Invisible
22-Jan-09, 11:20
I carry mine around with me all the time i get asked for id even for buying 15 cert dvds and im 21 next month! Useful to avoid any embarrasment with buying alcohol.
So there is no method of checking, within a reasonably short time, if a person whose full name is known has a driving licence?
yes there is via dvla, its a check done [via radio/phone] once actual driver details have been confirmed.
the ANPR system cant see who's driving [yet!] , so cant check it!
if they anpr a vehicle, and it comes back as having ins and lets say a male is driving when a female holds the ins, then they dont know if the current driver has ins/licence till they verify who it is.
nuff said
dx
believe you me
its upto date.
just ask any motor insurer!
and no, you dont have to pay the pound fees if they are wrong.
but ofcourse they wouldn't of seized the car in the first place if they were.
dx
nuff said
I had a problem with the database when I`d had a courtesy car whilst mine was being repaired. Got my car back and the insurance company "forgot" to change the details back. Didn`t discover this until 6 months later when I tried to tax the car online. Took the poor woman fron the insurance database ages to trace what had gone wrong. But at least she did it.
Dx100uk, so I would say it is safe to assume that the first thing to do would be to check if the Registered Keeper is the holder of a Driving Licence.
There may not be a direct link which shows both the details of the Registered Keeper and if that person has a Driving Licence any more than it would show if they had a criminal record but two or three separate quick checks would soon provide the information.
With a private vehicle it is normally a reasonable assumption that if the person driving is the same sex as the Keeper shown that both will be the same.
Yes, there will be times when it is father and son or mother and daughter or similar but nine times out of ten it will be the same person.
The system is computerised, but the information relies on human input. the information then provided relies on output to a human. the information then passed on relies on humans.
I have never come across a system yet which is foolproof. I have been assured on many, many occasions that such systems are foolproof and also that they will never "Go Down". That, eventually, has always proved to be a definite case of Hope over Experience.
The more information that is instantly available simply means there is a greater chance of errors being made and a reliance on such information can well lead to mistakes being more likely.
It says so on the Computer so it must be correct and anything to the contrary must be false.
That is a very dangerous assumption, very dangerous indeed.
it is only humans that make mistakes.
the less of those involved the better.
sadly , as with any computer controlled system..its programmed by a human,
pers, if it get more of the 3.5M uninsured or unlicenced people off the road, stops speeding & antisocial driving then it should be on every street corner.
those that don't like it are those with something to hide.
[evil] dx
purplelady
25-Jan-09, 19:02
my fella got stopped in perth on friday evening he did not have his but they just did a check and let us on our way x
those that don't like it are those with something to hide.
[evil] dxThat has been the accusation of all despots down the ages and, as history has shown far too often, it invariably proves to be a complete lie.
I wonder how the figure of 3.5 million uninsured or unlicensed vehicles comes from? Or is it just the usual "inspired guesswork"?
If the system is so good that a simple check says if a vehicle is insured then the details of uninsured vehicles must also be known and also the details of untaxed vehicles.
Surely if that is the case it is a simple matter to get the addresses of the owners and check if they are actually using the vehicles.
Perhaps we should just shoot the murderous drivers ho actually exceed the speed limit by more than 5 MPH. That should solve the problem.
There was a Country who, until quite recently, operated on precisely those lines, it was called the German Democratic Republic and the Stazi had informants not only on every street corner but several others in between them as well.
I know, "if you have done nothing wrong" and "that couldn't happen here".
Aye, right!
Jaws....am not sure what u r trying 2 say. I figured out what dx said but I am a wee bit confused about u......I mean the UK people accept CCTV and it was sold as those who don't like it have something to hide, thus everyone accepted it......what say u?
takin all 'iss in guys...be a driver masel shortly ;)
Congrats and then the money pit begins......
Jaws....am not sure what u r trying 2 say. I figured out what dx said but I am a wee bit confused about u......I mean the UK people accept CCTV and it was sold as those who don't like it have something to hide, thus everyone accepted it......what say u?No, CCTV is something that has been around for thirty year or more.
CCTVs, other than those in private premises such as shops, banks etc., were "sold" originally as being of benefit in cities to assist with preventing traffic congestion. One of the criteria laid down by the Dept of Transport at that time was that the picture should not be of such a quality that vehicle number plates could be identified.
Parliament considered that it enable individual vehicles to be identified would be too much like "Big Brother" and too great an intrusion into people's privacy.
It is only during this last decade or so, especially in London, that the idea that CCTVs should be installed of such a type that automatic number plate and facial recognition should become widespread.
The “excuse” used, as with many other recent developments, was that such things were necessary for the prevention of terrorism.
Prior to that the only usage of CCTV, other than for traffic control, was in the centre of large urban areas, usually at weekends, to keep a check for largish groups of people where trouble might break out. Again, the quality of the CCTV was such that identifying individuals purely from the pictures was virtually impossible.
The concept of being able to use CCTV as a surveillance system to track the movements of individuals has only crept in quite recently.
The concept that if you have done nothing wrong then you have nothing to fear is only a different was of saying everybody is probably guilty of having done something wrong and we should keep a watch on them because we might find out what it is.
That changes the concept of “Innocent until proven guilty” and twists it into “Guilty of something until we decide they are innocent”.
Only States which have a total lack of trust in their citizens adopt that particular method of control.
i always carry my licence,makes life a lot easier if you even get stopped for a spot check,the way things run now they already know if you are insured and have current MOT.so it only makes sense to carry your licence or some form of ID with you to prove who you are
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