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Benefit Fraud costs us £billions in lost revenue but would you do anything about it by informing on someone?
http://www.highland.gov.uk/fin/revenues/fraud.htm
crashbandicoot1979
03-Feb-06, 17:57
Yup, I would definitely "grass up" someone that I believed to be committing benefit fraud. Its something that really, really gets to me.
I see someone working all the time who is on benefits and I have not said a word but I really dont know why because I am working hard to support them grrrrr whats the confidential number lol
cuddlepop
03-Feb-06, 18:07
Iwould too.It really annoys me when some people in the catering trade offer less than the minimum wage ,with the sole intention of getting people to take the cash payment while still claiming!
Its not just catering but there the worst,:cry:
grrrrr whats the confidential number lol
The number is on the link (http://www.highland.gov.uk/fin/revenues/fraud.htm), be my guest! :evil
wickerinca
03-Feb-06, 19:05
Yep............you don't want to get me started on this one!!:eyes :D
Yep............you don't want to get me started on this one!!:eyes :D
its one of those subjects that does make me mad. there is a few folk in the toon who have never worked a day in their lives, but have the best of stuff, cars, etc. shows where the tax money goes.
What we and the Government lose by way of Benefit Fraud is probably more than paid for by people, especially the elderly, who fail to claim what is due to them because of over complicated claims forms.
I can't remember which Benefit it was but according to a programme on the Radio last week the Form is 48 pages long.
Forty-eight pages? How ridiculous, it's probably longer than the contracts for Holyrood.
Apparently many people are not now claiming for Tax Credits because they are scared to death they will make a slight mistake and suddenly find themselves with a huge debt from the Government.
Many people recently have been met with demands for hundreds of pounds or even more when their claims had been perfectly in order because of mistakes made by the Tax people which had continued for month after month.
Of course fiddling the system is wrong but Governments frightening people off claiming what they should be getting is even worse.
Is there any form of fraud that is acceptable?
Honesty is the best policy
We are paying our taxes to keep the benefit cheats in a comfy life-style, they all have brand new cars, kids are clothed in the best, homes are pretty jazzy.
Most of them have never worked a day in their lifes and are claiming for a disability they don't have.
I Know of one gentleman who is running around in a brand new car courtesy of invalidity his excuse for claiming is a bad back! yet he works on the sly during the day carrying heavy boxes, i reported him once and nothing came of it he is still living it up in pure luxury while i work a full week paying towards this kind of thing.:evil
As for one parent families claiming its appauling most of them have the actual father of their kid living with them. While HE claims benefit for himself In his supposed to be lived in home provided by the council, so there's 2 rents paid and 2 lots of council tax.
wickerinca
03-Feb-06, 21:19
Like I said........do not get me started on this one. I take the point about the forms and the people who are genuinely in need not claiming all they are entitled to but that needs to be fixed too!! Any ideas on that one?
landmarker
03-Feb-06, 21:42
I voted yes and of course as a man who has to work for a weekly wage I detest fraud. Remember though that many mi££ions more are lost to tax evasion by the very wealthy AND hundreds of mi££ions of welfare benefits go unclaimed. I do not always enjoy focusing anger on those at the bottom when the really rich get away with fiddling too.
I say again, I voted yes.
wickerinca
03-Feb-06, 21:48
I voted yes and of course as a man who has to work for a weekly wage I detest fraud. Remember though that many mi££ions more are lost to tax evasion by the very wealthy AND hundreds of mi££ions of welfare benefits go unclaimed. I do not always enjoy focusing anger on those at the bottom when the really rich get away with fiddling too.
I say again, I voted yes.
I voted yes also..without reservation........but DO NOT get me started on those fat cats and their bonuses and tax evasion!! Ohhhh.......I'll have to go and kick the cat now......I am so Mad!!!
Please note....That is merely a figure of speech. I have never hurt an animal in my life and I love my cat, two dogs and two canaries to bits!! I much prefer their company to most humans.......apart from my carefully chosen friends.........and some relatives I suppose.......and some of you lot too, I suppose. Think that I will stop now!:D
Whitewater
03-Feb-06, 22:34
Hi wickerinca, this thread seems to be hitting a sensitive spot and I don't blame you. I feel exactly the same way. An old friend of mine had some work done by a couple the wasters, they made a mess of it and he had no claim against them, but I guess he deserved for trying to get the job done on the cheep. Also agree about the fat cats, I think in many ways they are even worse.
nancypotter45
03-Feb-06, 22:43
Even if you do report it they are not always interested. I had a friend who has repeatedly reported her next door neighbour for working and claiming benefit and full rent rebate and nothing has been done about it - she has been foning for over a year. Also recently I reported a neighbour who was getting rent paid but her boyfriend lived with her and he was also claiming for a house of his own and was told that it was up to ME to prove it.
wickerinca
03-Feb-06, 23:08
Even if you do report it they are not always interested. I had a friend who has repeatedly reported her next door neighbour for working and claiming benefit and full rent rebate and nothing has been done about it - she has been foning for over a year. Also recently I reported a neighbour who was getting rent paid but her boyfriend lived with her and he was also claiming for a house of his own and was told that it was up to ME to prove it.
Good Grief.....there must be someone that can help!! I haven't had any experience of this but surely there must be somebody who HAS to investigate these reports!!
What we and the Government lose by way of Benefit Fraud is probably more than paid for by people, especially the elderly, who fail to claim what is due to them because of over complicated claims forms.
I can't remember which Benefit it was but according to a programme on the Radio last week the Form is 48 pages long.
Forty-eight pages? How ridiculous, it's probably longer than the contracts for Holyrood.
Apparently many people are not now claiming for Tax Credits because they are scared to death they will make a slight mistake and suddenly find themselves with a huge debt from the Government.
Many people recently have been met with demands for hundreds of pounds or even more when their claims had been perfectly in order because of mistakes made by the Tax people which had continued for month after month.
Of course fiddling the system is wrong but Governments frightening people off claiming what they should be getting is even worse.
Every tax paying person pays 80 pounds a year to benefit fraudsters. That is very wrong.
Its also wrong that vulnerable people can't cope with claiming the benefits to which they have right. Nor is it right for genuine mistakes to be horrifically penalized.
Unclaimed legitimite benefits cannot be used to balance the books on fraudulently claimed benefits. Two wrongs don't make an "allright"or an "acceptable".
Anyone wanting to report benefit fraud can now do so from the comfort of their computer chair...
https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/
You do not need to give your name or address and anything you say is in the strictest confidence.
There is nobody locally to check up on benefit fraud and in areas like this the public are really the only source of information.
landmarker
04-Feb-06, 00:59
Does anyone else detest the term 'grass up' ?
Low life terminology derived from their very own miscreant sub-culture.
Informing is a much better choice, in my humble opinion.
Every tax paying person pays 80 pounds a year to benefit fraudsters. That is very wrong.
Its also wrong that vulnerable people can't cope with claiming the benefits to which they have right. Nor is it right for genuine mistakes to be horrifically penalized.
Unclaimed legitimite benefits cannot be used to balance the books on fraudulently claimed benefits. Two wrongs don't make an "allright"or an "acceptable".
I couldn't agree more Ju, but when the system set up by the Government allows criminals to take the payroll details of the Civil Servants running the system. To then use those identities, including Nat. Ins. numbers and everything else required, to set up Bank Accounts in order to claim Tax Credits against those names on a massive scale. To allow it to run for months on a massive scale before they discover it. To allow the same thing to happen to the payroll of I believe it was Railway Workers. To then make all the right noises about how terrible it is and how they must do something about it and to then let it just die a death tells me that there is something dreadfully wrong and about which there is little being done.
Yes, benefit fraud is wrong, but for the Government to run adverts saying we know who you are and we know when you are likely to be working and we will catch you is just an attempt to move the blame for money being paid where it shouldn't be paid on to individuals.
Yes, the people claiming benefits they should not be receiving is wrong but for Governments to try to shift the blame for their own inefficiency is just to create a smokescreen.
Yes, two wrongs do not make a right, but trying to distract people from your own stupidity by trying to demonise others, no matter how disserving, is also wrong.
Stopping people making false claims is obviously the right thing to do
But what happens to the people who created and ran a system which allowed details of their own workers to be used to defraud millions of Taxpayers Money?
Is anything being done about them? Because they certainly know who they are and when they are likely to be working. Unless, of course, they have also lost their time sheets along with the payroll details!
I would have liked to vote yes, however being honest with myself, I know of several cheats and I have never done anything about it.
Whether I did or did not like the fraudster would not come into it for me.
I suppose this is because I think that the problem is so huge, chipping away at the edges by reporting a couple of people would not make a difference.
crashbandicoot1979
04-Feb-06, 11:37
Even if you do report it they are not always interested. I had a friend who has repeatedly reported her next door neighbour for working and claiming benefit and full rent rebate and nothing has been done about it - she has been foning for over a year. Also recently I reported a neighbour who was getting rent paid but her boyfriend lived with her and he was also claiming for a house of his own and was told that it was up to ME to prove it.
I remember being told that the majority of rent rebate fraud cases referred to the Highland Council are not investigated because they don't have a large enough budget. They only investigate cases where there is 100% concrete evidence of fraud i.e. so they won't have to do so much legwork. Makes you wonder why they're bothering to encourage people to report it. Saying that, it wouldn't put me off reporting someone - at least I would have done something about it, rather than just sitting around getting more and more wound up.
connieb19
04-Feb-06, 11:55
This really makes me mad...I have to go out to work six days a week..seven when the bills come in. I know of couples who live together and have families but have two council houses being paid for by the social and the woman claiming to be a single parent. They are coining it in...they are just having more and more kids as a way to earn a living. Grrr... it makes my blood boil..but I voted no, just because I'm the sort of person who dosn't want to get involved in other peoples business......grr mad again..because I suppose I'm working to keep these spongers so it should be my business...I'd just rather someone else do the reporting..[mad] [mad]
We are paying our taxes to keep the benefit cheats in a comfy life-style, they all have brand new cars, kids are clothed in the best, homes are pretty jazzy.
Most of them have never worked a day in their lifes and are claiming for a disability they don't have.
That is a fairly sweeping statement.
I voted NO, why should I do some lazy snoops job for him/her.
Highland Laddie
04-Feb-06, 14:50
I voted YES, as i think it's everyones duty to help the authorities catch these people.
No different than reporting any vandalism you see being done.
Has anyone actually tried reporting vandalism/trouble to the police/authorities? Try it and then see if you will do it again.
Highland Laddie
04-Feb-06, 15:03
Has anyone actually tried reporting vandalism/trouble to the police/authorities? Try it and then see if you will do it again.
Yes, have done it on several occasions, and the police were very prompt in their actions, if you see something wrong being done, why leave it to see if someone else will report it ???
Better experiences than I have then.
misty woman
04-Feb-06, 21:20
I would definately report some one for benifit fraud.Why should they get of with it when most of us have to go out and work to make ends meet.[evil]
rich62_uk
05-Feb-06, 23:37
I have done it once and wont bother again, it took three months before I got a call back and they wanted me to do all the work for them, do they have a back entrance, what days do they go to work, do you know where they work, do you know what kind of work they do, what time do they leave for work, do they have a car, what is the registration number of the car.
I asked them does this mean I am now employed by you, how much do I get a year, how many days holiday do I get, they didn't laugh........
And still the family openly tell people they claim DLA,CA etc it is this stupid country they have no idea what to do so they try a million different things never thinking one out properly and carrying it through....Trish.
There are a whole load of issues around benefit fraud. It is absilutely rife and it is totally frustrating that there is little to be done about it. However there are a couple of things that people should remember. Firstly - you dont always know whats going on. Sometimes people are not claiming benefits - calls are often made to report benefit fraudsters and those accused arent claiming benefits. Secondly sometimes people can work and claim benefits so it may be that when you made a report that person was actually declaring the work they were doing.
Having said that it is CRIMINAL that the government does not put in place more resources to tackle benefit fraud. They see it as this huge problem and yet we see the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) out on strike at the prospect of Further "modernisation" - thats staff cuts to you and me. Im sure the DWP in Caithness is already stretched at the seams trying simply to ensure people that need payments get them never mind trying to catch fraudsters from evidence that says " Im sure wullie is working and signing but i dont know where, i dont know when he goes, i dont know what he does and i dont know how he gets there"
Add to that the fact that benefit fraud has been tolerated for so long and simply seen as a fiddle rather than a crime and you might have some idea of why it continues to be a hard nut to crack
"There are a whole load of issues around benefit fraud. It is absilutely rife and it is totally frustrating that there is little to be done about it. However there are a couple of things that people should remember. Firstly - you dont always know whats going on. Sometimes people are not claiming benefits - calls are often made to report benefit fraudsters and those accused arent claiming benefits. Secondly sometimes people can work and claim benefits so it may be that when you made a report that person was actually declaring the work they were doing."
Well said Squidge; the assumption that everyone on benefit is a "scrounger" is very unsettling to those who are not "scroungers". Of course benefit fraud exists just as fraud does in jobs where expenses, taxes etc., can be fiddled, but sometimes that means that those who are entitled to benefit or those who are looking for a job do not claim as they do not want to be seen as "scroungers".
And yes, believe it not, that does happen!
My wife suffered a major stroke at the age of 33 and barely survived, she was told she'd never walk again but has proved the doctors wrong through sheer determination. However despite all the problems she still has, and they are extensive, she feels guilty about claiming benefits because the number of fraudsters out there mean she is tarred with the same brush as them.
I would definitely report someone I knew without doubt to be a fraudster, but as already said there are "back to work" schemes that allow work whilst still claiming Incapacity Benefit; you may also work without limitation if claiming Disability Living Allowance.
My wife suffered a major stroke at the age of 33 and barely survived, she was told she'd never walk again but has proved the doctors wrong through sheer determination. However despite all the problems she still has, and they are extensive, she feels guilty about claiming benefits because the number of fraudsters out there mean she is tarred with the same brush as them.
I would definitely report someone I knew without doubt to be a fraudster, but as already said there are "back to work" schemes that allow work whilst still claiming Incapacity Benefit; you may also work without limitation if claiming Disability Living Allowance.
There is a distinct impression intentionally being put about that the vast majority of people on Benefit are there because they are 'Fiddling the System".
The guilty just ignore it but those who are genuine are made to feel like some sort of Criminal for having the temerity to claim what is rightfully theirs.
"We know you were promised "Jam Tomorrow", and you were stupid enough to believe us. How dare you ask for some now. Who do you think you are, Oliver Twist! If you take any of it then we'll say you stole it! "
this really bugs me.. espeacially when people are claiming but then still go out to work for cash. then you get people like the homeless that need these benefits but trying to get them is so difficult for them..[evil]
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