E mails

[TRUCKER]

I see that internet providers are going to keep a record of every e-mail sent or received for a year. Thats means they could keep tabs on you 24 hours a day. The goverment says that it will help to combat crime and terror. What is peoples views on this. Myself its just another case of big brother watching you.

[telfordstar]

I agree with you on this one but they have no worries with me its all spam and bills i get in my inbox:lol:

[dirdyweeker]

I have always been told if you have done nothing wrong then you have nothing to hide. BUT... I do not feel happy that my written word from the past will be available for a year. Especially the 'piffle' that I put out!
Mind you I can't see them reading more than a line of mine before becoming bored.:lol:

[Kodiak]

I see that internet providers are going to keep a record of every e-mail sent or received for a year. Thats means they could keep tabs on you 24 hours a day. The goverment says that it will help to combat crime and terror. What is peoples views on this. Myself its just another case of big brother watching you.


Ha I would like to see them keep alll the e-mail I receive for a Year. The amount of SPAM I receive every day, between 800 to 1000 a day, they would need a seperate server for me alone.

Somehow I do not think it would be possible to keep all e-mails for every person for a whole year.

I have just been advised that the Government is seeking to put through a Bill to get ISP's keep a Note of the e-mail addresses to whom you send a e-mail. Also to keep the e-mail addresses of all the e-mails you receive. Contents not to be kept so this could be possible.

[percy toboggan]

It's more a case of who you are sending to and receiving from - actual content will not figure - I'm informed.

Thin end of the wedge again though , and it's getting thicker all of the time.

We are having measures like this foisted upon us to counter so called terrorist suspects.
Why not round up the likeliest few thousand or or so suspects and deport them, or inter them. But better the former. If their Granpa's home country will not accept them then pay any failed African state good money to take them in. Supply them with money to marry, and feed themselves. This will alleviate our problems no end....at least for a decade or so. Encourage them to send for people to join 'em in their new lives.

Once they are gone simply quadruple border security in the short term and quadruple it again in the longer term.

If this is all too much for thee then prepare to sacrifice many more civil liberties on the altar of counter terrorism.

[Metalattakk]

This is nothing new - ISPs have voluntarily been storing this information for years now.

[Bazeye]

We are having measures like this foisted upon us to counter so called terrorist suspects.
Why not round up the likeliest few thousand or or so suspects and deport them, or inter them. But better the former.

Would have saved money and a lot of hassle if the foreign ones werent let in in the first place.

[nightowl]

They may say the content is of no interest but will it be like the GCHQ monitoring of phone calls? Certain "key words" flagging the email for more attention by the Government agencies. We'll need to choose our words carefully!! No more recipies passed around about ice-cream bombs. And certainly no more gardening tips on the use if sodium chlorate. And girls don't you be discussing the ins and outs of using peroxide to lighten your hair!! World gone mad?

[Vistravi]

Will this be the case with fre mail such as hotmail and yahoo? Anyone know

[A9RUNNER]

If you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide! I hear this spouted out all the time but we all know how good some places are at looking after private personal details. If you are plotting with al queda to make bombs or to traffic child porn etc then you deserve the full wrath of the law but I am sure that plenty folk share personal info via the web that is of no interest to the authorities but could be deeply embarrassing if it were to become common knowledge. Another step closer to a police state.

[Tristan]

Do you have a link for that? Very sad news if it is true. Here I thought our heroes and veterans fought for our freedom...guess we were fooled!

[Metalattakk]

Jebus, people are blowing this all out of proportion.

The only info being stored is the sender's email address, the email address it's being sent to, the subject line and the time it was both sent and received by the servers involved. The actual body/content of the email isn't stored or logged. At all.

British ISPs have been storing this info voluntarily for years now. But hey ho, the BBC news site throws out a scare-mongering story and all of a sudden everyone starts panicking.

[JAWS]

Until such time as you draw the Governments interest by contacting people the Government finds "inconvenient".
And if you think it will stop at addresses and headings then you obviously haven't been paying attention for the past few years.

The current suggestion is a watered down version of suggestions the Government have been floating in order to assess reactions for many years.

The original suggestions involved virtually all government and local government employees being able to trawl through everybody’s emails allegedly in the interests of "security", "anti-terrorism" and "organised crime".
All that as a matter of course and without having to obtain any form of authorisation, legal or otherwise. In other words the suggestion was that almost any Town Hall employee would have had the right to trawl through the emails of any one of you to see what you were up to, who you were chatting to and what you were saying.
In effect a gossips charter no less with nobody checking who was doing the snooping or who was the victim.

That was jumped on six or seven years ago and abandoned. Since then there have been several attempts to resurrect the same idea by reducing the extent a little each time to see if it can be made acceptable.

And for those who think it is a lot of fuss over nothing, would they have believe five or six years ago that powers created allegedly to keep surveillance on terrorists and those involved in organised crime would be used by councils to check that parents lived in the correct catchment area for a particular school or to snoop on people to make sure they didn’t put their rubbish bins out too early? And those are not inventions, they are things some Councils have admitted they have done amongst other similar trivialities.

[Metalattakk]

Oh dearie me. Dearie, dearie me. I can't even begin to answer your post JAWS. Where do I start?

'Mission creep' I'll give you. All the rest is, frankly, reactionary pish. I'll explain further tomorrow when (or even if) I can be ersed.

[JAWS]

Is it really. But only if you say so. It has all been fairly widely publicised throughout the various media over the years and I don't just mean the red tops.

Of course, you might even write major companies as nothing more than pathetic scaremongers when they made representations to the Government about some of the suggestions.

[Bobbyian]

Thats nothin, Just think what Google has on You anyway

[Metalattakk]

Until such time as you draw the Governments interest by contacting people the Government finds "inconvenient".
And if you think it will stop at addresses and headings then you obviously haven't been paying attention for the past few years.

I have been paying attention for quite some time. For instance, I am well aware that this recent move has little to do with the UK government, it is part of an EU-wide directive.


The original suggestions involved virtually all government and local government employees being able to trawl through everybody’s emails allegedly in the interests of "security", "anti-terrorism" and "organised crime".
All that as a matter of course and without having to obtain any form of authorisation, legal or otherwise. In other words the suggestion was that almost any Town Hall employee would have had the right to trawl through the emails of any one of you to see what you were up to, who you were chatting to and what you were saying.
In effect a gossips charter no less with nobody checking who was doing the snooping or who was the victim.

You say that, then say this:


That was jumped on six or seven years ago and abandoned.

Of course it was. The government at the time had no idea how the internet worked. They still don't. They don't have the faintest clue.


Since then there have been several attempts to resurrect the same idea by reducing the extent a little each time to see if it can be made acceptable.

That's actually not a bad thing. They can keep knocking at the door until their proposal is acceptable. What's wrong with that?


And for those who think it is a lot of fuss over nothing, would they have believe five or six years ago that powers created allegedly to keep surveillance on terrorists and those involved in organised crime would be used by councils to check that parents lived in the correct catchment area for a particular school or to snoop on people to make sure they didn’t put their rubbish bins out too early? And those are not inventions, they are things some Councils have admitted they have done amongst other similar trivialities.

Hell, they've even admitted they were wrong and new directives have been issued to restrict local Council's RIPA requests.

--------------------

The thing is, people are noticing what's going on. They see Wacky Jacqui trying to force something dodgy through and they make a fuss. A big fuss. And invariably she doesn't get away with it. This national database is due to be implemented soon, and there's where the next storm is going to happen.

The one I'm more concerned about is the BT Webwise/Phorm debacle, and the lack of response from both the Home Office, ICO and the CPS.

And I'm sure Viviane Reding is awaiting answers too.

Right, I'm rambling now I think... :D

Oh, one last thing - this proposal to log every email shows exactly how much the Government (and EU) knows about internet protocols. Only email that passes through major ISPs will need to be logged by law. Webmail doesn't count, private mailservers are exempt, and every single spam email sent will need to be logged too.

If this measure is meant to stop terrorism, it's a piss-poor effort to be honest. Any sensible terrorist will be able to bypass all of these measures, and that's before they even begin to count the cost (in both storage and man-hours to retrieve any info). If they're using this to 'mission creep', it's a hell of an expensive, time consuming way to do it.

It's been estimated that 3 billion emails are sent every day. Where the hell are they going to store all that info?

Yep, definitely rambling.... ;)

[JAWS]

So if it originate from the EU that makes it more acceptable and less intrusive? That’s alright then, there is nothing to worry about. The EU directive came out in 2005 but he Government has been preparing and part implementing this for at least the last eight years.

The extent which has been reduced is because parts have already been implemented by use of Statutory Instrument attached to other legislation. What was abandoned was introducing the whole concept in one large chunk allowing the various parts to be slipped through Parliament, often using the Guillotine in order to prevent too close a scrutiny in Parliament.

As far as RIPA is concerned they have not admitted they were wrong they have simply adjusted the level of authorization required and advised Councils that they should make the usage less blatant. In other words, claim the usage was for something more serious and the more trivial incident just happened to quite accidentally be seen.
It is called “cooking the books”, “fiddling the statistics”, “covering your back”, along with many other things used to hide misuse of power.

The legislation, which come into effect in March, will give almost 800 councils and other government agencies the right to carry out such checks without seeking any permission. The intention is not just to check on emails, phonecalls etc but also on usage of the web, sites visited, purchases made and various other related things.
The original concept was to have live3 access for twelve months and foir it to be archived for a further six years.
The comment in the Conclusion of the original NCIS Submission included the comment, “Although the law enforcement arguments for retention of data are critical, its use for a range of other purposes should not be forgotten.” Make of that what you will.

The database which is to be eventually used had been costed at £12 billion (not million, billion). GCHQ has already been given one billion to get the database under way.

If anybody thinks that the legislation really is about preventing terrorism and serious crime then they are far more trusting than me after some of the misinformation which has happened over the last decade or so.

On a similar note, for at least the last two years the locations and movements of some makes of Satnavs are already being constantly monitored and their locations recorded. As far as I am aware the people using them are not necessarily aware of the face as the agreement is with the manufacturer and hidden in the small print.
Separate to that, Satnavs have, on occasions, been seized and the memory checked in order to check a vehicle’s recent movements.

Don’t forget, your modern mobile phone can locate you to a very small area even when you are not using it.

No need to worry though, your privacy is of paramount importance to the Authorities.

[TBH]

So if it originate from the EU that makes it more acceptable and less intrusive? That’s alright then, there is nothing to worry about. The EU directive came out in 2005 but he Government has been preparing and part implementing this for at least the last eight years.

The extent which has been reduced is because parts have already been implemented by use of Statutory Instrument attached to other legislation. What was abandoned was introducing the whole concept in one large chunk allowing the various parts to be slipped through Parliament, often using the Guillotine in order to prevent too close a scrutiny in Parliament.

As far as RIPA is concerned they have not admitted they were wrong they have simply adjusted the level of authorization required and advised Councils that they should make the usage less blatant. In other words, claim the usage was for something more serious and the more trivial incident just happened to quite accidentally be seen.
It is called “cooking the books”, “fiddling the statistics”, “covering your back”, along with many other things used to hide misuse of power.

The legislation, which come into effect in March, will give almost 800 councils and other government agencies the right to carry out such checks without seeking any permission. The intention is not just to check on emails, phonecalls etc but also on usage of the web, sites visited, purchases made and various other related things.
The original concept was to have live3 access for twelve months and foir it to be archived for a further six years.
The comment in the Conclusion of the original NCIS Submission included the comment, “Although the law enforcement arguments for retention of data are critical, its use for a range of other purposes should not be forgotten.” Make of that what you will.

The database which is to be eventually used had been costed at £12 billion (not million, billion). GCHQ has already been given one billion to get the database under way.

If anybody thinks that the legislation really is about preventing terrorism and serious crime then they are far more trusting than me after some of the misinformation which has happened over the last decade or so.

On a similar note, for at least the last two years the locations and movements of some makes of Satnavs are already being constantly monitored and their locations recorded. As far as I am aware the people using them are not necessarily aware of the face as the agreement is with the manufacturer and hidden in the small print.
Separate to that, Satnavs have, on occasions, been seized and the memory checked in order to check a vehicle’s recent movements.

Don’t forget, your modern mobile phone can locate you to a very small area even when you are not using it.

No need to worry though, your privacy is of paramount importance to the Authorities.Jaws, your eyes have been opened, it's a great feeling, isn't it.:D

[Metalattakk]

JAWS:

Are you fred? If not, you're a fred wannabe.

"Infamy, infamy...."

Please don't be offended if I think you're opinion is misguided and again, somewhat reactionary. In fact, over-reactionary would be a better description.

[TBH]

JAWS:

Are you fred? If not, you're a fred wannabe.

"Infamy, infamy...."

Please don't be offended if I think you're opinion is misguided and again, somewhat reactionary. In fact, over-reactionary would be a better description.It's all about control metlattack. They have you under it, hell you even defend vehemently the prison that they are setting up for the populace, make them proud or open your eyes.

[Metalattakk]

Or, choose not to fall for the propaganda the detractors and conspiracists purvey. The choice is mine. And yours.

[TBH]

Or, choose not to fall for the propaganda the detractors and conspiracists purvey. The choice is mine. And yours.Of course the choice is yours, it always has been but are you as free thinking as you think you are?

[Metalattakk]

If you must insult me, put some effort into it, eh? ;)

[TBH]

If you must insult me, put some effort into it, eh? ;)I wasn't meaning to insult you but if I did I would indeed have put some effort into it, but, alas, I couldn't be Rrrrr sed.[lol]

[Metalattakk]

Ach, you disappoint me. :(

I love a good maligning. [lol]