View Full Version : The Impact of American Culture
A recent thread brought to light a serious problem in my opinion.
I like to joke and have a laugh, as you may have guessed. I like to be bizarre and "out there" but I also know that there is a time and place to be serious.
American culture is impacting our lives now more than ever. TV invites into our home: murder, rape, violence on an unprecedented scale, and moral standards that would shock our grandparents. I like an action film as much as the next man, but the films that now pass as cert 12 are unbelievable! They would have been cert 18 ten to fifteen years ago.
Is this permissiveness good for society? I don't believe it is. What do you think?
Do we really need to be exposed the "gun culture" and "gangsta culture" of the Western world? Surely it can have no beneficial effect!!??
Before we complain about American culture coming to Scotland, take a deep breath and try to understand that Scots have had a massive impact on American Culture.
wickerinca
01-Feb-06, 19:02
Don't think that I'll subscribe to this thread.........way to dangerous!!!:lol:
I'm afraid British companies are just as bad. Have you watched any British soaps lately? I don't know how they get throught the 9.0 watershed, not that anyone seems to take much notice of that these days. Even CBBC and other children's channels are pretty awful - some of the content is American but they are British tv companies showing it. As for what gets shown late at night - I give up.[mad]
Before we complain about American culture coming to Scotland, take a deep breath and try to understand that Scots have had a massive impact on American Culture.
That may be so, but American culture has now overtaken Scottish culture in its anti-social qualities. I'm not complaining about American Culture as that's not our problem and we can do nothing about it, but I'm asking everyones opinion on the effect that culture is having on us and our children.
teddybear1873
01-Feb-06, 19:47
1 thing i have noticed on telly since i've been in America is that they cut the violence or dub the swear words, even films that are on around midnight. I watched The Thomas Crown Affair last night and it was edited for a bit of nudity. Going on about films at the cinema i hear alot of people have been walking out of the film Hostel cause it is so gruesome
landmarker
01-Feb-06, 19:51
The major downside to the American cultural influence in recent years has, in my opinion been on the youth of our nation. It's cool to be black these days it seems and with the 'coolness' comes a whole range of potential problems. Our teenagers, the dimmer ones, seem to revel in the macho image
presented by bling laden numbskulls. Everything from back to front baseball caps to pathetically imitated black American accents are parroted with glee.
Rap music and hip-hop is the music of choice for millions of British teenagers. It's lyrics are mysoginistic and pay homage, often to violence. Gun crime has soared in inner city areas as many live out the 'gangsta' lifestyle for real.
The videos promoting this music usually involves sexual imagery. It sells records & downloads doesn't it after all. Women seem to be represented with panting dancers fawning up to vocalists and waving their backsides at 'em.
Any children of mine would not watch this tripe, and I have in the past, on tuning in to the hits channel while under the influence of weekend, felt an overwhelming urge to put a size ten boot thru' the telly !
Other, perhaps more positive aspects of American culture do not seem to be widely embraced. A more responsible attitude to sex is emerging amongst teenagers. The morality of the right win Christians is beginning to turn things around. I'm not saying I agree with fundamentalist Christians but at least they instill boundaries and some sense of direction in their young people.
Before anyone has a pop I answered the question Savey posed in my own way. My opinion. I'm old enough to know when things were different. The influences I've depicted would not have been given houseroom by my generation.
Thanks for answering Landmarker. I agree with what you've said. I also understand the appeal that things like that can have for young ones. The effect on them however is largly negative.
What's to be done?
landmarker
01-Feb-06, 20:08
What's to be done?
I don't know Savey. The genie is out of the bottle.
I really do not know.
Nothing I could suggest is feasible or legal.
I am sorry I disagree "American Culture" affecting us in Scotland. No way, what you are seeing is "American TV Culture" that is not the true America.
Some of the nicest friends I have are American, two inparticular are members in here HelenW and Sassylass, I have had the good fortune to have met them and both their Daughters, ( by the way lads imagine me sat in between two drop dead gorgeous 24 year old Californian girls ) and I met Sassys son in law also. They did not portray the Americans that we see on the box, but and I am including their mothers now, they were the nicest people I have had the good fortune to have met. I have other American friends from New York State, who I met through the power of the web, who are as equally nice and kind as anyone else I have met.
Ok I agree G Dubbya & his lackie T Blair have affected me and mine and no doubt a lot of others who read this. But as for American Culture affecting Scotland NO WAY JOSE!!!!!!!!
Sorry I should add Helen and Sassy are a pair o Stoatars as well
Do we really need to be exposed the "gun culture" and "gangsta culture" of the Western world? Surely it can have no beneficial effect!!??
Which part of 'American Culture' are we being swamped with, can somebody provide some examples.
The only ones I can think of apart from certain fashion items are jeans and chewing gum. As far as fashion goes we have sent our fair share their way on more than one occasion as we have with pop music.
With those exceptions, what else please, I'm curious?
Whilst I dont want to take anything away from the experiences some of you guys had growing up, and I wonder how much is viewed through rose tinted spectacles, my experience is different. Im nearly as old as the oldest of you,(with the exception of Golach that is) not that age matters when it comes to explaining experiences. Ive heard heart renching stories from children whose understanding of their experiences is tinted by childhood niavity but those experiences were described with a maturity that would shame the wisest sage amongst us.
I think we write our children off at our peril. My own children are fantastic people who enjoy rap music (as I do myself) and American culture both at its worst and its best. I am glad for them and would never judge anyone by their taste in music or the clothes they wear or the cultures they mimic. When I was a kid we played commandos. The germans were the target and we killed hundreds every day during the summer holidays. I didnt turn into a killer when I grew up because I killed germans as a kid.
We point fingers at the youth of our country and ask why they dont respect us. I am aware every time I point my finger, 3 other fingers at pointing back at me. Thats my bottom line. I am responsible, not my neighbours kid or the black family at the end of the street or the rubbish we watch on television.
What can I do to change the world that doesnt point the finger of blame at others?
I was thinking mainly of music, music videos and movies.
Not swamped with necessarily but the influence that it seems to have on young people is palpable.
Whilst I dont want to take anything away from the experiences some of you guys had growing up, and I wonder how much is viewed through rose tinted spectacles, my experience is different. Im nearly as old as the oldest of you,(with the exception of Golach that is) not that age matters when it comes to explaining experiences. Ive heard heart renching stories from children whose understanding of their experiences is tinted by childhood niavity but those experiences were described with a maturity that would shame the wisest sage amongst us.
I think we write our children off at our peril. My own children are fantastic people who enjoy rap music (as I do myself) and American culture both at its worst and its best. I am glad for them and would never judge anyone by their taste in music or the clothes they wear or the cultures they mimic. When I was a kid we played commandos. The germans were the target and we killed hundreds every day during the summer holidays. I didnt turn into a killer when I grew up because I killed germans as a kid.
We point fingers at the youth of our country and ask why they dont respect us. I am aware every time I point my finger, 3 other fingers at pointing back at me. Thats my bottom line. I am responsible, not my neighbours kid or the black family at the end of the street or the rubbish we watch on television.
What can I do to change the world that doesnt point the finger of blame at others?
I like your thinking Gleeber. Personal responsibility is a very important thing. I seen a young boy come out of his home and start trying to kick a cat while shouting "...spy kid kick..." or something along those lines. Fortunatly the cat got away before any kick reached it. Like it or not entertainment affects us. So we have a choice......what choice will we make?
landmarker
01-Feb-06, 21:11
I didnt turn into a killer when I grew up because I killed germans as a kid.
You mean you didn't turn into a killer because you indulged in games of Germans and Allies (almost said English) as a child?
OR that this spin off in your lack of murderous qualities was despite the fact you made killing hundreds of 'germans' almost a childhood obligation?
Your statement is a little ambiguous gleeber.
Rap music is in my opinion an oxymoron. I watched '8 mile' with Eminem, and slightly enjoyed it, against my better judgement, but I was determined to see it.
I can listen to some of the more benign rap for a few minutes but the majority of the stuff is macho nonsense, delivered with the kind of casual disdain, and contempt we see replicated on our streets. It is perfectly dreadful, in my opinion, and is certainly not music.
landmarker
01-Feb-06, 21:15
I like your thinking Gleeber. Personal responsibility is a very important thing. I seen a young boy come out of his home and start trying to kick a cat while shouting "...spy kid kick..." or something along those lines. Fortunatly the cat got away before any kick reached it. Like it or not entertainment affects us. So we have a choice......what choice will we make?
In this brave new world our choice is so limited.
In another age you'd have bawled out the child and put the fear of God up him.
I think I'd still do that now, and take my chances.
Something Ive learnt in my life is to try and listen to what the other person has to say and then understand it from their position.
Young people, perhaps like the boy Savey mentioned who wanted to kick the cat need to be understood from their position. Why would some kid who is loved and adored by his parents try to kick a cat? Whats going on for him? Maybe folk think I am part of the problem by defending the perpetrator? I dont see it as defending, more like trying to understand. Its only through understanding that these things can be tackled. Sure, culture movies music, have a part to play in the waywardness of modern youth but so has attitudes from older people and so has the reality of politics and politicians. Everything has a part to play. Theres not much difference these days between a Hollywood thriller and Newsnight. Lets blame reality too. Even the knockers amongst us have to accept our share of responsibility.
And yes, that may be ambiguous too. but every persons understanding is slightly different, the secret, I believe, is to understand it from our neighbours boots.
A friend of mine from Canada said that she hadn't heard so much Country music until she came to Wick to teach. The ever popular country music festival in Halkirk where all dress up as cowboys and cowgirls is a testament to the strength of following for this brand of music. I suspect though, that that doesn't spring to mind as the 'American Culture' that is seen as a threat to Scottish culture as it is deemed as fairly benign fun whereas Rap & co is deemed otherwise. Come to think of it, soul, blues and rock and roll have their roots in Afro-america, British bands like Rolling Stones, Beatles have their influences from 'American culture' and for that we are truly grateful.
landmarker
01-Feb-06, 22:04
Theres not much difference these days between a Hollywood thriller and Newsnight.
Of course there is.
As for the kid, loved from a good home 'trying to kick a cat' for many it is a right of passage to impose one superiority upon an inferior being. They shouldn't do it, most certainly when there's an adult around or you might even now, get a telling off, or even a clip around the ear.
When I was a child, about nine I think, I once threw lumps of coal at birds in the garden. I never hit one. I'd have been mortified if I had. I remember on a couple of occasions shouting at my dog for no reason, just to watch him cower, how terrible I felt afterwards.
I never watched violent films as a child. My behaviour was not 'learnt'
Children need to assert some kind of superiority now and again in a world in which they are almost always subordinate. In my case I learned something....I discovered I wasn't cruel.
These things are child like. 95% of us grow out of them,and move on, perhaps the rest , the naturally cruel go on to bully their contemporaries.
All of which is not really 'on thread' The worst excesses & examples of the behaviour I suggest would be the school massacres, which are almost entirely American & almost entirely a white phenomenon (the perpetrators anyway).
landmarker
01-Feb-06, 22:09
British bands like Rolling Stones, Beatles have their influences from 'American culture' and for that we are truly grateful.
Very True, though in the Beatles case they were much better exponents of the genre than the original artists. (imho)
I'm grateful , certainly for that. And for you Rheghead in pointing out the more beneficial aspects of American influence.
(Beatles: hardly a bad track anywhere - the world will not see their like again)
I don't know where to start, and that's a rarity for me. :lol:
Gleeber, you must be a couple of weeks older than me! ;) Mine were Gerries, Japs, and treacherous, pesky Redskins!
Slaughtered thousands of them and didn't even have the decency to bury a single one, they were just lift to rot where they lay. Well, either that or they got up and went for their tea! Not killed anybody since then and I still don't know why, perhaps I just got it out of my system as a kid.
Rap Music? When we gave the World Punk Rock, or at least tried to. How to a scream a very out of tune string of four letter words whilst spitting all over your audience!
As for other types of Music, we'll we've sent a few bits of Music the other way too including a few groups of escapees from Liverpool.
We complain about their music when we had the sheer cruelty to sent them Demons riding Thunder Clouds with voices to match and instruments sounding like tortured tom cats being neutered without benefit of anaesthetic.
No wonder they retaliated, I'm surprised they didn't sue us for damage to their ears and nerves.
American culture as described does in my view lead the world in terms of negativity and bad influence, but most of the kids cartoons - mostly steeped in violence and aggression - are from the far east, Japan etc. However I find the Americans such hipocrites - 50% allegedy devout Christians yet so uncaring about their impact on the rest of the world - quite happy to bomb the hell out of Iraq and now possibly Iran for example. But I digress, apologies!
Re the media - I saw a vivid example of the influence of how TV can influence the way kids talk (for example) when I lived in Orkney, and a nighbour was always moaning about how her kids didn't talk with an Orcadian accent - she blamed the 'incomers' for that, however, every time I was in her house her kids were ever sat gawking at the TV with an inevitable succession of cartoons and pulp kids programmes, many American at that time (this was in the 80's). The kids clearly heard much more 'TV speak' than their parents talking to them. If some parents did talk to their kids more and take a genuine interest in what they were up to, instead of letting them spend hours in their rooms surfing the internet and watching pulp TV, their kids might grow up less isolated and wayward, and more mature and people-friendly.
Oh dear, I didn't mean that to turn into a rant, sorry!!
wickerinca
01-Feb-06, 22:50
American culture as described does in my view lead the world in terms of negativity and bad influence, but most of the kids cartoons - mostly steeped in violence and aggression - are from the far east, Japan etc. However I find the Americans such hipocrites - 50% allegedy devout Christians yet so uncaring about their impact on the rest of the world - quite happy to bomb the hell out of Iraq and now possibly Iran for example. But I digress, apologies!
Re the media - I saw a vivid example of the influence of how TV can influence the way kids talk (for example) when I lived in Orkney, and a nighbour was always moaning about how her kids didn't talk with an Orcadian accent - she blamed the 'incomers' for that, however, every time I was in her house her kids were ever sat gawking at the TV with an inevitable succession of cartoons and pulp kids programmes, many American at that time (this was in the 80's). The kids clearly heard much more 'TV speak' than their parents talking to them. If some parents did talk to their kids more and take a genuine interest in what they were up to, instead of letting them spend hours in their rooms surfing the internet and watching pulp TV, their kids might grow up less isolated and wayward, and more mature and people-friendly.
Oh dear, I didn't mean that to turn into a rant, sorry!!
I enjoyed your rant........made perfect sense to me:D
In the beginning was the world,and the world created Hollywood,and Hollywood tried to create a copy of the reality that is the world, and then the world decided to copy the Hollywood made copy,and Hollywood copied that copy until the opposing mirrors disappeared into infinity and no one could tell the reality from the movie.
Beatles better than the original artists,Landmarker. What have ye got for ears boy?[evil] :lol:
AHEEEMMM.. clears throat.. cracks nuckles and sets in for her rant..
As you all know I am american... and very proud of the fact, now
when i came here i could not WAIT to get out of my little backwater town,
where no one ever got anywhere and life was grow up get married have babies and start the process all over..
WEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL......
now that i have seen the world..
and seen how other people see each other and them selves..
God Bless The USA!
hmmm..
back to the subject..
American Culture..
shock gasp..
what you see so plainly on tv and news here..
not in america
its sensored..
you do not see nudity,
you do not hear profanity
you do not see death and destruction on normal tv.. or papers.
IE: papers here.. you have the page 3 girl.. national paper.. nekkid girl
not where i come from.. sorry we dont publish nudie pics in normal papers..
those are for the dirty mags.. hidden behind the counter
in the news.. papers and tv..
sorry we dont show dead bodies laying in the street..
or talk about who is shaggin who or who is having affairs..
not done.. our children neither want nor need to see that trash
and sorry kids do not need to be exposed to the violence of murder and traumatic death ever.. either in pictures or video..
hmm what else.. cursing and nudity and sexual scenes in movies..
not on public tv i can tell you that.. and if a movie has it in it is editied right out!
can not curse on the radio either.. or in the paper
what else..
oh yeah real big one here..
where i come from.. my little corner of teh good ole US of A
we are taught to respect others ..
not to talk back to our parents
not to beat the crud out of other kids because they dont like the way you look.
all in all i have found that the culture here is a lot worse than the culture i come from
and hmmm am i a Hypocrite?
well lets leave that to God ..
im not perfect never claimed to be ..
but saying that ..
i think im a decent human being who helps others when i can
and would never turn my back on someone because they are dif from me.. in some way be it race, religion or creed..
or because i cant be bothered to do something that would put me out of my way.
*BIG HUGE SIGH*
Cleansing breaths..
ahhhh END RANT!
*giggles* whew that felt good.. and since i cant write in sarcasm.. folks that was very heavily laden with it!
GAWD!!! that really got my goat!
( by the way lads imagine me sat in between two drop dead gorgeous 24 year old Californian girls )
I'm jealous Golach!!!!lol
Too true Brandy, in fact I thought US tv was very tame and conservative. Every American that I met was extremely civil and polite and surprisingly socially naive I thought even though I was in NYC!. Forgive me, but I thought the same of Caithnessians when I first came here. To be honest, I think 'American Culture' is just another identity that the rich grey men in grey suits created which oils 'teenage rebellion' back in the 1960s, starting with the anti-hero, James Dean in 'Rebel without a Cause'. It just gives a platform for kids to cling on to and older people something to scorn at.
Dear Lady,without arguement or criticism,could you tell me please,what part of the states do you come from and when did you last live there.It has been thirty seven years since I lived in the States and I believe things have changed a bit since then:lol: .
Btw,I basically agree with your rant.Our little parochial backwater is as rife with hidden scandal as any Peyton Place.
Brandy, are you telling me that you're not a nice Yankee Girl after all and that you come from one of them there Rebel Confederate States?
My illusions are dashed! And I thought you were a nice girl too. :p
Our society has become what it is because we have let it happen. This has not happened overnight and is more a result of our own actions than outside or external factors.
The bastion of American society is the Protestant work ethic – something we have lost. In our nanny state respect and worth are no longer expected to be taught at home, nor are they. On my last trip to the UK I was amazed at the number of teenagers (ages around 13-15) drunk and incapable lying (and I mean literally lying) in the main streets of Glasgow, Inverness and Thurso – the majority of these were girls. I have never seen this in the USA.
On the occasions I have been in the USA I have never felt intimidated or threatened – even in New York which proved to be one of the most welcoming cities I have ever had the pleasure of visiting.
By the way landmarker it is cool to be black – some of the coolest people I have met or know are black.
yup im southern thru and thru.. i come from south of the mason dixie line in north carolina *Grins*
and i moved here in Nov. 1999 so not so long ago.. and we go home every year.. so not much has changed .
As you know i have teenage boys - one likes gangsta rap and dance and hte other likes polish rock and rap music. The lyrics in their music sometimes makes me cringe and i dont want to have to listen to it so i tell them to turn it off when it gets too much. I dont stop them listening to it on their MP3 players or in their rooms, I have explained to them why I personally dont like it and we have discussed the issues it raises.
I rarely sanction what my teenagers watch on the television unles their ten year old brother is in the room or its something I personally find distasteful - , i do not beleive that television makes children behave in a vertain way or makes them more likely to be criminals, thugs or drunken layabouts. I beleive my boys can make the distinction between real life and fiction and I am quite prepared to have discussions about what I personally find distasteful but the programmes are films and cartoons and are not real life.
WE have seent his argument about the impact of films, music and TV over the last thirty years or so - remember the concerns about Grange HIll for heavens sake and the Power Rangers?? To be honest - no one has produced evidence to show that TV or media coveridge turns normal well adjusted kids into psycho killers or contributes to the breakdown of society as we know it.
In our nanny state respect and worth are no longer expected to be taught at home, nor are they. On my last trip to the UK I was amazed at the number of teenagers (ages around 13-15) drunk and incapable lying (and I mean literally lying) in the main streets of Glasgow, Inverness and Thurso – the majority of these were girls.
Scotsboy - i live and work in inverness and i go out quite a bit and i have never tripped over a drunken teenager in the high street here. Go into any high school here and you will find the VAST majority of teenagers are respectful, pleasant and thoughtful. The vast majority want to work and they are planning their futures. To make sweepeing statements like you made is not fair.
Finally It is social exclusion and deprivation and drugs that provides the breeding ground for crime and gangs to operate not television or films or some BIIIIIIIIIG BAAAAAAAAAAD rapper.
This is interesting. My perception was that most of the bad influence through the media was coming from the USA and yet people who've been to the USA or who were brought up in the USA notice a huge difference in what the British show on TV, newspapers etc. compared to the USA.
So, could the truth be that standards in general have dropped but British censorship standards have dropped more than the average?
Maybe I hit it on a few bad days Squidge - but I was out there on several occassions between 7th & 21st December and it was BAD.
landmarker
02-Feb-06, 20:15
Beatles better than the original artists,Landmarker. What have ye got for ears boy?[evil] :lol:
Big uns, and yes! the Beatles showed the original artistes how is was done.
Have you heard Lennon belting out 'Money'.....boy?
I don't know much about pop music but it does appear that a lot of the more violent stuff has a very bad influence and creates a mindset of violence acceptability. Much of TV and, to a lesser extent, radio is the same and not all children have parents like Squidge who talk to their children and are aware of what they are watching. So many even young children have TVs in their bedrooms these days so who knows what they are watching? Fewer families spend their evenings together, as we used to (that shows my age!) and many working parents plant their children in front of the TV just to get some peace. It's not just the violence and explicit sex, it's the contempt for others - lack of consideration for people's feelings. Comedy panel shows that get their laughs jeering at people who cannot answer back. On the radio just now Robin Cook was mentioned and someone said "he's no longer with us" so they all laughed. I don't think that's funny.
Some time ago I complained to the Beeb about a programme on CBeebies called Spider (British) which was a series of shorts about a little boy and his pet spider. I loved it and recorded it for my grandchildren until one day the boy put the spider in the bath and started torturing it. I was horrified - this was for small children. Actually the programme was taken off and hasn't been seen since.
There is plenty of good music, good tv etc. but there is also so much general nastiness for which I don't think we can blame America or any other country. It's British and we have to take responsibility. If we stopped listening/ watching this stuff and didn't buy the gutter newspapers/magazines it wouldn't be worthy anyone's while producing it.
End of my rant [mad]
Much of TV and, to a lesser extent, radio is the same and not all children have parents like Squidge who talk to their children and are aware of what they are watching.
Im no paragon of parenting skills badger - i only say what i think about it and i dont beleive that tv or radio really influences the behaviour of young people especially teenagers.
i dont beleive that tv or radio really influences the behaviour of young people especially teenagers.
Hmmm, there have been studies that suggest otherwise.
I was playing Money at the same time as the Beatles,so yes I've heard it. I am afraid that,as a rock and blues artist worldwide(including Afghanistan),for over forty years I will have to agree to disagree with your musical comments.Yur loogs micht be beeg but they dinna work e' same as mine.
Landmarker,crude as though the Fab Four's music may have been,It was galaxies ahead of the drivel that passes for music these days.Doggerel with computers.Macgonigal would be a rap star if he were alive today.
Aye rheghead they have sugggested otherwise but they havent proved it at all. They have been trying to prove it since the days of "tucker" jenkins in Grange hill but there hasnt been anything to show that it turns happy healthy kids intp serial killers
TV is pretend and children play pretend from the moment they are very small - why would they not be able to see the difference between pretend and real life. As they get older they will have the boundaries of behaviour set for them by their parents andwhat they see and hear will not move those to any great degree - Im quite sure my boys will swear to worst words in front of their pals but they dont doit infront of me despite listening to the stuff they listen too and its free use of words i cant type here
landmarker
02-Feb-06, 23:26
I was playing Money at the same time as the Beatles,so yes I've heard it. I am afraid that,as a rock and blues artist worldwide(including Afghanistan),for over forty years I will have to agree to disagree with your musical comments.Yur loogs micht be beeg but they dinna work e' same as mine.
Respect. Your comments are noted and you obviously know much more about music than I, a mere record buying devotee.
I know what I like though gleeber two. I don't/didn't just 'like' the Beatles, I loved them.They formed the definitive soundtrack of my life and I'm far from alone.
p.s. How did 'Money' go down in Kabul?
Aye rheghead they have sugggested otherwise but they havent proved it at all.
Isn't that a bit like saying smoking is linked to cancer but there is no irrefutable proof that it does cause cancer?
Isn't that a bit like saying smoking is linked to cancer but there is no irrefutable proof that it does cause cancer?
LOL No it isnt and you know it!!!!!
Find me some evidence that TV watching causes anti social behaviour and ill read it but Television is not to blame for all society's ills.
Find me some evidence that TV watching causes anti social behaviour and ill read it but Television is not to blame for all society's ills.
Jamie Bulger case was one where detectives drew comparisons to the murder and a scene in one of the Chucky films and they established that the two accused had recently seen the film. Do you think they decided to act out the scene in real life?
When I was playing in Kabul it was 1975 and I was long past the Beatles stage.Most of the music I played in Kandahar and Kabul was with native musicians and was Afghan music.I played some of my own stuff which,at that time, was more Indian than Western.
I hear what you say about the Beatles and I know the effect they had on a large number of your generation(I think you're younger than me).When the Beatles hit the charts,I was listening to the blues and jazz originals that inspired their music and the Beatles were,to me the, equivalent of the Spice Girls or Blur and were rjected by me because the originals had feeling that four bairns from Liverpool could not possibly match and,in my opinion, never did.:lol: One thing that can be said is that they were a quantum leap ahead of the Stones.
Now I stand back and wait for the stones to come flying.
Jamie Bulger case was one where detectives drew comparisons to the murder and a scene in one of the Chucky films and they established that the two accused had recently seen the film. Do you think they decided to act out the scene in real life?
I dont knwo about the bulger case but i didnt actually say there is no link between specific cases and television and video games. What i actually said was
no one has produced evidence to show that TV or media coveridge turns normal well adjusted kids into psycho killers or contributes to the breakdown of society as we know it. There are, of course crimes that have been committed by people who have been influenced by programmes and videos and books, Natural Born killers has been blamed for several murders across the world, specifically France and the USA, john lennons killer blamed the book Catcher in the Rye if im not mistaken, others have cited influences as far apart as the bible, the Koran and Grand Theft Auto but they are the exception rather than the rule and tend to involve those people who's grip on reality is less than it should be.
Studies have shown a potential link between children who watch aggression on televison programmes/videos/videogames are likely to be more aggressive but then they have also shown that children who are more aggressive are more likely to watch aggressive programmes - i dont beleive they have shown clearly which comes first. Studies have also shown that where telvision is introduced into an area for the first time - aggressive behaviour doesnt suddenly increase and they have also carried out research which shows that it makes absolute no difference to the way children play or the way they react to each other when television is introduced into a previously television free society.
The simple way of looking at this is that if we are saying that "television and Videos CAUSE violent and agressive behaviour" we have to wonder at those of us with remarkable self control for we manage to avoid corruption by the nasties.
Ah but squidge, my analogy re smoking still holds true. Well adjusted kids are analogous to the vast majority of people who are not susceptible to developing cancer and will live to their nineties and smoke 40 fags a day while those unfortunate to have a history of cancer in their family(analogous to maladjusted kids watching violent films) will have a high risk of developing it.
Rheghead
Smoking causes 90 % of deaths from lung cancer in men. 80% in women IS the cause and effect of television on violence even similar? No.
Using your analogy you could argue that laughing causes aggression because in loads of cases people have said " he laughed at me so i hit him ". Do we then argue the case for not laughing because it might cause someone to hit you?
Using your analogy you could argue that laughing causes aggression because in loads of cases people have said " he laughed at me so i hit him ". Do we then argue the case for not laughing because it might cause someone to hit you?
I am not convinced by your fallacious laughter arguement because it is easy to see how smoking can cause cancer and watching violent films can affect the behavior of certain people in our society. I fail utterly to see how an evil laugh can induce a violent reaction in somebody without other accompanying non verbal communication like body squaring and clenched fists. Perhaps it is not the express influence of media in inducing violent behavior but the desensitising of our moral reactions to bad behavior that is the culprit. Either way, it amounts to the same thing.
AHEEEMMM.. clears throat.. cracks nuckles and sets in for her rant..
As you all know I am american... and very proud of the fact, now
when i came here i could not WAIT to get out of my little backwater town,
where no one ever got anywhere and life was grow up get married have babies and start the process all over.. Aye, that sounds like Week all right ;) (Note smiley!)
And it's a good part of the reason why I left Thurso.
WEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL......
now that i have seen the world..
and seen how other people see each other and them selves..
God Bless The USA!Wait a second. Did I misunderstand you above? I thought you were talking about Week in that first bit. ;) (note second smiley)
Aha, I get it now, you left small-town USA and you moved to Week, and now you've seen the world? ;) (note third smiley)
hmmm..
back to the subject..
American Culture..
shock gasp..
what you see so plainly on tv and news here..
not in america
its sensored..
you do not see nudity,
you do not hear profanity
you do not see death and destruction on normal tv.. or papers.
IE: papers here.. you have the page 3 girl.. national paper.. nekkid girl
not where i come from.. sorry we dont publish nudie pics in normal papers..
those are for the dirty mags.. hidden behind the counter
in the news.. papers and tv..
sorry we dont show dead bodies laying in the street..
or talk about who is shaggin who or who is having affairs..
not done.. our children neither want nor need to see that trash
and sorry kids do not need to be exposed to the violence of murder and traumatic death ever.. either in pictures or video..
hmm what else.. cursing and nudity and sexual scenes in movies..
not on public tv i can tell you that.. and if a movie has it in it is editied right out!
can not curse on the radio either.. or in the paper
what else..
oh yeah real big one here..
where i come from.. my little corner of teh good ole US of A
we are taught to respect others ..
not to talk back to our parents
not to beat the crud out of other kids because they dont like the way you look. Yup, that sounds just like the small-town American culture I know and have a love/hate relationship with. Desperate Housewives ain't typical ya know lol.
Seriously, it is indeed remarkable how we get such an inaccurate picture of American life from the media. Like some others on here, I've lived in the US, I've spent a month or so working there on many occasions over the years, I've made many other work visits of a week or two, and I've had many holidays there. I've visited 21 States in all -- almost half of the 50 -- which is probably more than most Americans have done! Brandy's picture is pretty-much the picture I see in small towns all over.
It'll be a week working in Arizona this summer, and then probably a few weeks vacation travelling around some of the south-western states. I can (and do) act, speak and think like an American when and if needed.
That doesn't mean I could live in small-town America, there's absolutely no way I could do that -- I would be bored out of my skull for a variety of reasons. Most Brits may be ignorant of what the US is really like, but most Americans have absolutely no idea of what the world outside their country is like. They're far worse than us in that respect -- at least we Brits travel abroad for our week or two of summer sun on the Costa del Somewhere-or-other every now and again.
Brandy, you surely had a culture shock moving from small-town NC to Week. Do you think a Weeker would have such a shock moving to NC?
all in all i have found that the culture here is a lot worse than the culture i come fromWell, we might agree to differ a little there, but that's a whole new topic...
Smoking causes 90 % of deaths from lung cancer in men. 80% in women IS the cause and effect of television on violence even similar? No.
There are lies and then there are statistics.
If watching violent videos caused just 10% of all child murders then I would say there is a link between the two.
Jamie Bulger case was one where detectives drew comparisons to the murder and a scene in one of the Chucky films and they established that the two accused had recently seen the film. Do you think they decided to act out the scene in real life?
So am I to assume that if they hadn't seen the Chuckie film they would have remained sweet little angels?
If what was in films or on TV was the cause of violence then the Bulger case would just be one of many similar incidents.
All that connection tells me is that it gave them an idea for a method and not that it created the intent.
Presumably, if they hadn't done it that way then they would have used another.
My watching Crimewatch and seeing a security camera view of a bank robbery won't make me want to rob a bank.
However, if I want to rob a bank then i might well learn how to avoid getting caught by seeing which method appears to be most successful.
My excuse in court may well be that I got the idea from Crimewatch and try to say I wouldn't have done it except for Crimewatch.
It's nice to try and blame something else for your own faults.
My watching Crimewatch and seeing a security camera view of a bank robbery won't make me want to rob a bank.
Since crimewatchUK has been on the go, crime has increased and there have been recorded instances of copycat crimes taken from crimewatchUK.
go figure, I thought that show was supposed to reduce crime? It didn't do Jill Dando any good did it?
Since crimewatchUK has been on the go, crime has increased and there have been recorded instances of copycat crimes taken from crimewatchUK.
go figure, I thought that show was supposed to reduce crime? It didn't do Jill Dando any good did it?
The show is meant to help catch those who have already committed crimes not to prevent future crime. That would take a programme with a different format.
I take it you think Jill Dando was killed by a method seen on Crimewatch. I don't remember anything being said about a copycat crime at the time.
By recorded instances of copycat crimes do you mean that the people committing them only turned to crime because of what they was on Crimewatch.
What puzzle me is that there was so much crime before films and TV. What were Georgian and Victorian Thugs watching to make them criminals? Unless they got their ideas from Penny Dreadfuls.
Perhaps Elizabethan Thugs were influenced by Shakespeare.
yup im southern thru and thru.. i come from south of the mason dixie line in north carolina *Grins*
and i moved here in Nov. 1999 so not so long ago.. and we go home every year.. so not much has changed .
Not really much to add to your post Brandy, but just wanted to wave hello(!) and say that I agree with you! :) I also come from the states just outside of Chicago and haven't seen as much as I've seen over here. I also moved over in 1999, but not originally to Caithness. I enjoy rap music, and used to listen to it quite a bit growing up, and watched MTV and all that, and I think I turned out ok! :) And the kiddies sure do like Dora and are picking up some Spanish at the same time, so can't be that bad. ;)
My view is that too much time is spent watching the silver screen both here and in America and the tragedy is that it limits conversational and social skills and is a distraction from better communication within families. O.K., I prefer books and the pictures on the radio are much better and of course the language is not always dumbed down. Too many people never read a book or have even failed to establish the habit which is best learnt in childhood. I've even been in houses without books!
I also have to say that American radio is nowhere near as good as the good old BEEB and was one of my major disappointments when over there.
Not sure whether morality, behaviour and all the rest is necessarily all down to what people see and watch. The up side of changing attitudes is that folks are also more prepared to get up on their back legs and challenge the views and actions of our politicians and the good and the great. A little healthy disrespect for authority is no bad thing in a healthy society.
As for immorallity from music! The old court harpers complained about fiddlers with their devil's instruments contaminating their music. Jazz and the tango were the epitome of immorality and louche living when they appeared and I expect that Mozart and Bach had their critics when they set off on their musical journeys. Personally I think that rap will probably have failed or evolved beyond recognition in 10 years time but still be listened to in its original form by some sad purists.
The major downside to the American cultural influence in recent years has, in my opinion been on the youth of our nation. It's cool to be black these days it seems and with the 'coolness' comes a whole range of potential problems. Our teenagers, the dimmer ones, seem to revel in the macho image
presented by bling laden numbskulls. Everything from back to front baseball caps to pathetically imitated black American accents are parroted with glee.
Rap music and hip-hop is the music of choice for millions of British teenagers. It's lyrics are mysoginistic and pay homage, often to violence. Gun crime has soared in inner city areas as many live out the 'gangsta' lifestyle for real.
The videos promoting this music usually involves sexual imagery. It sells records & downloads doesn't it after all. Women seem to be represented with panting dancers fawning up to vocalists and waving their backsides at 'em.
Landmarker, I was brought up in Caithness, and have spent a total of over 11 years living in the USA. For the past year or so, I've lived in an area where a large portion of the population is black. I can assure you that the majority of them are NOT like the folk in the Rap and Hip-Hop videos, not even the young ones! American TV programmes and films do not give an accurate picture of life in the USA. Most people over here are honest, hard working folk, just like the average Brit. Not everyone's a gun totin' gangsta, and not everyone lives in a big, luxurious house, like the ones you see in Hollywood movies or on 'Desperate Housewives'.
Most Brits may be ignorant of what the US is really like, but most Americans have absolutely no idea of what the world outside their country is like. They're far worse than us in that respect -- at least we Brits travel abroad for our week or two of summer sun on the Costa del Somewhere-or-other every now and again.
That is quite true, DrSzin. But I don't think it's necessarily because most Americans have no desire to travel outside their country. It's a lot cheaper for a Brit to get to Costa del Somewhere-or-other from the UK, than it is for an American to get to the same place from the US! My parents and siblings have gone on some fabulous holidays that I can only dream of, because they got great holiday package deals from the UK.
wickerinca
03-Feb-06, 19:02
Landmarker, I was brought up in Caithness, and have spent a total of over 11 years living in the USA. For the past year or so, I've lived in an area where a large portion of the population is black. I can assure you that the majority of them are NOT like the folk in the Rap and Hip-Hop videos, not even the young ones! American TV programmes and films do not give an accurate picture of life in the USA. Most people over here are honest, hard working folk, just like the average Brit. Not everyone's a gun totin' gangsta, and not everyone lives in a big, luxurious house, like the ones you see in Hollywood movies or on 'Desperate Housewives'.
I agree with you Sporran.....but that is not the image of the US that is portrayed by some of their music, movies and tv shows that are shown around the World..... Same as.......(thinking!) Rab C Nesbitt was not typical of the population of Glasgow.....I think[evil] :lol: :lol:
Same as.......(thinking!) Rab C Nesbitt was not typical of the population of Glasgow.....I think[evil] :lol: :lol:Whaddya mean? I always thought Rab C was an archetypical weegie. :confused
wickerinca
03-Feb-06, 19:11
That's whi I did the....."I think":lol: Was never very sure:lol:
I agree with you Sporran.....but that is not the image of the US that is portrayed by some of their music, movies and tv shows that are shown around the World..... Same as.......(thinking!) Rab C Nesbitt was not typical of the population of Glasgow.....I think[evil] :lol: :lol:
That's exactly my point, wickerinca! TV, music and movies do not give an accurate picture of the country and people they are supposed to be representing! Yes, Rab C Nesbitt's a good example. Heaven forbid that the rest of the world think all Weegies are like that! :lol:
wickerinca
03-Feb-06, 19:30
That's exactly my point, wickerinca! TV, music and movies do not give an accurate picture of the country and people they are supposed to be representing! Yes, Rab C Nesbitt's a good example. Heaven forbid that the rest of the world think all Weegies are like that! :lol:
Good to have reached a concensus of opinion there, Sporran. Let's see what the rest think now?
Is the America that is portrayed on our screens the real America? and if not.....Why portray it that way?:confused
Sporran, are you seriously trying to convince me that Rab isn't your average Weegie? Come on now, be sensible. :roll:
I'll be quick with this one so I don't stop all those who want to watch reality TV from seven to half eight. I would hate them to miss those true to life programmes about everyday English Folk. 7 o'clock, Emmerdale, half past, Coronation Street, eight o'clock Eastenders.
And we get an unrealistic view of America from TV?
Never mind Rab, has anybody found that bit of Scotland where everybody behaves like Take the High Road?
No wonder a lot of Americans think we've just emerged from the Dark Ages if that's all they have to go off.
Ten minutes to go folks, start the generator now so it's warmed up for seven o'clock!
I cannot stand soap operas. They just go from one argument to another. Anyone watching one of the soaps tonight....count how many arguments there is within the half hour or hour that the program is on.
I can't bear to think of the image of the world young ones get from watching soap operas...
landmarker
03-Feb-06, 21:34
I cannot stand soap operas. They just go from one argument to another. Anyone watching one of the soaps tonight....count how many arguments there is within the half hour or hour that the program is on.
I can't bear to think of the image of the world young ones get from watching soap operas...
The only soap opera I bother with now is 'The Archers'.
I jettisoned Coronation Street about four years ago after half a lifetime watching when I could.
Eastenders is so full of unpleasant louts and harridans that I have seldom indulged.
As for the rest? No thanks.
However Rab Series 1 & 2 are being trakced in 'my e.bay' I feel a bid coming on.
wickerinca
03-Feb-06, 21:43
I have to confess that I watch Coronation Street!! Keeps me up to date with some UK stuff..........but we are about 6 months behind! Does Schmichel live???? (Not sure if that is how you spell the Dog's name!!).
Rab Series would be great........get those fingers going!!...watch out ebay..here he comes!! I'm an ebay watcher too!!!
Loved Father Ted as well and it is being shown here just now. Have introduced some of my friends and neighbours to it.......they are all East Coasters and Catholic.......and they love it!!!.....but that is us laughing at ourselves and I wish that others were allowed the freedom to laugh at themselves also. Would make for a safer world I reckon!!:(
landmarker
03-Feb-06, 21:50
Loved Father Ted as well and it is being shown here just now. Have introduced some of my friends and neighbours to it.......they are all East Coasters and Catholic.......and they love it!!!.....but that is us laughing at ourselves and I wish that others were allowed the freedom to laugh at themselves also. Would make for a safer world I reckon!!:(
I'd never seen Father Ted, then in 2003 we motor-cycled to South-central France looking for sunshine. It wasn't there strangely. We were trapped in an old farmhouse in Poitou-Charente with a boxed set of Auf Widersehen Pet & FATHER TED!! It was hugely enjoyable. When the rain was beating down we'd fill up the wood burner, crack open the stella, or red wine and settle down in't front of the telly. The day we left the sun shone, at least the 700 mile ride home was warm and dry.
Have you seen 'early doors' wickerinca?
wickerinca
03-Feb-06, 21:55
No I haven't seen Early Doors..but I have been intrigued by the few mentions of it in the forum. Have to see if I can pick up the DVD's or whatever when I am home in April. Is it a BBC production as we get BBC Canada and they can have some good series on? What is the gist of the story.and is it ironic...I love irony!!! Jaws can be as sarcastic as he wants as far as I am concerned!!:lol: :lol:
landmarker
03-Feb-06, 22:06
No I haven't seen Early Doors..but I have been intrigued by the few mentions of it in the forum. Have to see if I can pick up the DVD's or whatever when I am home in April. Is it a BBC production as we get BBC Canada and they can have some good series on? What is the gist of the story.and is it ironic...I love irony!!! Jaws can be as sarcastic as he wants as far as I am concerned!!:lol: :lol:
A bit off thread but it is about culture...pub culture - East Manchester pub culture I'd guess. The Grapes. Run down and losing money. Frequented by a regular clientele. A mixture of odd balls, almost all of them lovable. Old Tommy - a miserable auld cuss with a heart of stone. Eddie & Joan. As Gormless as they come yet harmless and warm hearted. Two blokes with wife trouble of different sorts and then there's Ken, the Landlord. Overweight & struggling to make ends meet, largely because he is leeched upon by two of the daftest and most inept coppers you'll ever see.
Ken fancies Tanya, the barmaid but has forgotten how to ask women out.
He has a step-daughter, Melanie who seeks out her 'real' Dad... a right plonker. Good pathos here. The acting generally is first class.
All this against a backdrop of early evening boozing on a budget, There's Debbie who leaves her kids in the car outside for hours on end, sending them a bag of 'cheese and onion' every so often. I used to get that treatment but at least my folks would slip me the odd 'Babycham' - I kid you not. (I loved it).
I havent done it justice here but I think it's side splittingly funny. Mind you , I'm a Manc. Not totally gormless but well....I think I'll stop right here.
Don't forget Shameless, classic television, and probably a lot closer to real life than we'd like to admit
wickerinca
03-Feb-06, 23:13
I definitely need to see this one!!!
American Culture as it exists is ok..........but as it is portrayed.....I think that is where the problem lies.....and that is controlled by the Film and music companies.
landmarker
03-Feb-06, 23:58
Don't forget Shameless, classic television, and probably a lot closer to real life than we'd like to admit
Never seen it, dont fancy it. The poster on billboards and what I've heard thru' the grapevine suggests to me it is about low life scum. The characters in Early Doors are worthy, Shameless? The title says it all - underclass ,uneducated, underwhelming....I dont need it.
Never seen it, dont fancy it. The poster on billboards and what I've heard thru' the grapevine suggests to me it is about low life scum. The characters in Early Doors are worthy, Shameless? The title says it all - underclass ,uneducated, underwhelming....I dont need it.
That may be but I would rather give an opinion on something that I had read/watched than making an assumption from word of mouth, yes maybe it's not for all tastes ( I have never lived in an area like the 'Chatsworth Estate' in Shameless, and their way of living certainly doesn't appeal to me) but to be honest I believe it may be quite an honest portrayal of the way some people live their lives, and it may not be the way I choose or want to live my life, but it also shows the trials and tribulations of people that live in this environment, and it is entertaining, give it a bash landmarker and prove me wrong :)
The characters in Early Doors are worthy
No they are not. They are reprobates that spend too much time in e afternoon on e drink. Especially e bird who taps up e money for drink at the expense of child welfare. If you are identifying yersel wi' e characters in early doors then you have got yer poles reversed in regards to common decency.[lol]
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