View Full Version : I would rather speak Norse than Gaelic
Eagleclaw68
31-Dec-08, 13:46
If Gaelic should be a compulsory language taught in Scottish but with Caithness Orkney and Shetland having Norse heritage and connections in the Far North should the Norse language be taught in the schools in the Far North of Scotland and the Northern Isles.
Plus one other point do you all think the road signs in Caithness and the Northern Isles should be in Norse not Gaelic?.
i would rather speak none of the 2 you mentioned its not really much of a benifit if they were going to make one language compulsary it should be sign language and it should be compulsary in the whole of eu that way everyone can have a common langauge that everyone can talk to each other whether your speak another language or cant speak and its a skill u can learn in your own langauge and even blend it in other subjects at school
Whats wrong with the Caithness Dialect??
To be honest I prefer to think I have a norse and pictish bloodline.
percy toboggan
31-Dec-08, 16:37
I wish I could speak English in the 'correct way' without having to think about it.
My speech is sometimes slovenly and I cut corners. Dependant on the company I can lapse into foul mouthed swearing when, for someone with a vocabulary as varied as my own there is absolutely no excuse for it.
Upringing and laziness are at the root of my speech defects. So...whilst I ally myself with the cause of the Norse,rather than the Gael I'd be quite satisfied with mono-glot status so long as I could master it to my own satisfaction without the aforementioned effort.
We all need a repertoire of language but I'd just like my default status to sound
a bit posher. Mancunian accents...like a few others do lend themselves to the gutter rather more freely than say ... a Scottish accent.
Enough said.
Bad Manners
31-Dec-08, 16:41
If Gaelic should be a compulsory language taught in Scottish but with Caithness Orkney and Shetland having Norse heritage and connections in the Far North should the Norse language be taught in the schools in the Far North of Scotland and the Northern Isles.
Plus one other point do you all think the road signs in Caithness and the Northern Isles should be in Norse not Gaelic?.
It does not matter which language is written or spoken as long as everyone can understand each other, as for Road signs this has already been done in previous threads.
Slainte
If Gaelic should be a compulsory language taught in Scottish but with Caithness Orkney and Shetland having Norse heritage and connections in the Far North should the Norse language be taught in the schools in the Far North of Scotland and the Northern Isles.
Plus one other point do you all think the road signs in Caithness and the Northern Isles should be in Norse not Gaelic?.
Sorry Eagleclaw, go back a little further in your History of Scotland and you will find that Caithness was governed and ruled by the Gaels and spoke Gaelic, long before the Vikings took over, the Vikings were then thrown out by the Scots, so therefore the Scots have ruled for a lot longer than the Norsemen, and have to some extent been the Official language of the whole of Scotland. There is even a Gaelic School here in Auld Reekie, and why not, Gaelic is a part of the whole Scots physique.
Now Golach, I hate to disagree being a wee Sassenach and it being Hogmanay, but!
Until the ninth century the local peoples were the Picts and not the Gaels. After them came the Norse in the 800s and it was until 1196 that William the Lion managed to bring Caithness under the control of the Gaelic speaking Scots.
From what I can gather Caithness has never been mainly Gaelic speaking at any time. If anything, the nearest thing to being accurate historically is that the language of Caithness would be to speak Old Norse but when written using the original Celtic alphabet of Ogam script.
Just thought I would add to the confusion by throwing a little outside interference into a private family squabble. ;)
Now Golach, I hate to disagree being a wee Sassenach and it being Hogmanay, but!
Until the ninth century the local peoples were the Picts and not the Gaels. After them came the Norse in the 800s and it was until 1196 that William the Lion managed to bring Caithness under the control of the Gaelic speaking Scots.
From what I can gather Caithness has never been mainly Gaelic speaking at any time. If anything, the nearest thing to being accurate historically is that the language of Caithness would be to speak Old Norse but when written using the original Celtic alphabet of Ogam script.
Just thought I would add to the confusion by throwing a little outside interference into a private family squabble. ;)
Not the way I saw it Jaws, I followed this very good programme avidly, but maybe your interpretation is different from mine
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/history/
Alice in Blunderland
31-Dec-08, 22:48
If Gaelic should be a compulsory language taught in Scottish but with Caithness Orkney and Shetland having Norse heritage and connections in the Far North should the Norse language be taught in the schools in the Far North of Scotland and the Northern Isles.
Plus one other point do you all think the road signs in Caithness and the Northern Isles should be in Norse not Gaelic?.
Oh hear we go again some of us have a hard enough job understanding and speaking English on a daily basis with the Caithness dialect being added in. :confused
As for road signs aaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhh good God lets go back to the horse, cart and foot and be done with everything since we are all suddenly interested in the past. :cool:
Thats me off to the bath now and Ill come back a nicer person all ready for 2009 and more debates. :lol:
.....
As for road signs aaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhh good God lets go back to the horse, cart and foot.....
Why should we Alice? How many horses do you know speak Gaelic? ;)
Enjoy your bath and a very Happy New Year when it comes. :D
I recognise the chap but I didn't see that particular series of programmes.
In history there are always several variations, amongst them being the Authorised Version, which is the one taught and used by the “Establishment”, the Preferred Version, which is the popular, moral boosting version the people like to believe (and that goes for any Nationality) and then there is the one which is probably far nearer the truth where grand plans and wonderful victories, with a little digging and lateral thought, look far more like convenient luck and shear accident.
Oh, and then there is the Hollywood version which leads to even serious programmes on history now describing William Wallace as “Braveheart” and not Robert the Bruce.
You have to dig around a little usually to find out the most probable way things happened. Certainly Gaelic was widespread in the Western Highlands but it certainly wasn’t universal throughout Scotland by any means, the Borders and the East Coast being examples.
Off the subject but on the same theme are the Romans who, if nothing else, are famous for the wonderful roads they built all over the place.
Unfortunately a letter has been found at a site on Hadrian’s Wall. It was written by somebody complaining that he had been told to take a cart to York for supplies but there was no chance of him going because he had no intention of risking damaging his cart “because the roads are so bloody awful.”
I know who’s version I believe about Roman Roads and it’s not the Authorised Version which came down to us via Roman and Roman inspired Historians.
I would be delighted for Scotland to be co-opted into Scandinavia. Alluring blonde women, exquisite design for the home, the music of (Scottish-roots composer) Greig, the best detective stories...I could go on. Dont get me started.<br> Only one drawback - I am useless at assembling Ikea furniture. But what furniture did the Picts have - flat stones!!!!<br>In my worst moments I think I may be a Pict. <br> Say it isn't so, Gollach.<br>I want Runes on the road signs. Can we have a special one for longboats...?
Aaldtimer
01-Jan-09, 04:34
Jaws..."Oh, and then there is the Hollywood version which leads to even serious programmes on history now describing William Wallace as “Braveheart” and not Robert the Bruce."...
Erm, why would anyone want to describe WW as R t B?
Or do you mean R t B as Braveheart?
Are you trying to confuse me?...'cos you're succeeding!:confused
Both men were pure heores to Scotland and wanted the same thing our freedom :D
I've always found Gaelic to be a bit of a non language with so many words not translatable from Englich, but lots of languages are the same. For me French is the easiest followed by German and Arabic.
I don't see what difference bi-lingual signs will be.
Bi-lingual signs are pointless - end of!
Teaching Galiec is pointless, its only spoken on the islands and if thats what they want then so be it. Its not an international language in the way that English, German, French and possibly Mandarin are. I think its a waste of our limited financial resources. There are millions being poured in to it...what for? Even those employed to administer this, do not agree with the allocation of the money into Galiec signage etc....Grrr. [evil]
Jaws..."Oh, and then there is the Hollywood version which leads to even serious programmes on history now describing William Wallace as “Braveheart” and not Robert the Bruce."...
Erm, why would anyone want to describe WW as R t B?
Or do you mean R t B as Braveheart?
Are you trying to confuse me?...'cos you're succeeding!:confusedRobert the Bruce was Braveheart. His dying wish was that his heart be removed and taken on a Crusade to the Holy Land. His wish was followed and Black Douglas carried Bruce's heart, encased in silver, intending to take it to the Holy Land. On route, whilst in Spain, there was a skirmish with the Moors during which Black Douglas threw the Bruce’s heart ahead of him crying, "Forward, brave heart, as ever thou were wont to do, and Douglas will follow thee or die". Hence, Braveheart. Black Douglas was killed in the fight and the heart was returned to Scotland by another knight.
Well, that is the original legend, at least. One thing is correct and that is that at one stage the Bruce’s body was exhumed and it was found that the ribcage had been sawn open which would have been done if his heart was removed.
Calling Wallace “Braveheart” was just a good method of creating an eye-catching, memorable film title.
The rather unfortunate thing is that when history is manipulated and turned into a popular book or film it is that version which tends eventually to become the accepted version. The film Braveheart is certainly not the first time it has happened by any means and I’m positive it won’t be the last.
It was still a good film though.
2little2late
02-Jan-09, 21:09
Oh, Eagleclaw where are you?....................
ShelleyCowie
02-Jan-09, 21:23
Oh, Eagleclaw where are you?....................
Off picking at his prey! ;)
I was about to say at the end of an Eagleleg... I'll get my coat ;)
Oh, Eagleclaw where are you?....................
His Ma put him to Bed early............:D
2little2late
02-Jan-09, 21:34
His Ma put him to Bed early............:D
Ahh, bless [lol]
I'd rather speak Gaelic, Norse or Mandarin than this foreign English spiel.
ShelleyCowie
02-Jan-09, 22:58
I was about to say at the end of an Eagleleg... I'll get my coat ;)
Lol! :lol: I love gettin laughs on the Org! Makes my day!
I would rather speak Klingon than Gaelic!!![lol]
Klingon makes alot more sense than all that phlegm throwing that gaelic is!!!.
Theres probably more Polish speakers than Gaelic speakers in Scotland.
I would rather speak Klingon than Gaelic!!![lol]
Klingon makes alot more sense than all that phlegm throwing that gaelic is!!!.
This would make quite a fight!
Klingon against Gael - Bat'leth vs Tuskar
:lol:
I recognise the chap but I didn't see that particular series of programmes.
You have to dig around a little usually to find out the most probable way things happened. Certainly Gaelic was widespread in the Western Highlands but it certainly wasn’t universal throughout Scotland by any means, the Borders and the East Coast being examples.
.
Jaws the programme "History of Scotland" is being repeated on BBC 2 tonight at 2000, Neil Oliver's exploration into our complex nation's history, it totally different to what I was taught at school, much more detailed.
Haweswater
03-Jan-09, 18:22
A point perhaps worth remembering; the parishes of Latheron, Halkirk and Reay were, until well into the 19th century, the last refuge of spoken Gaelic in Caithness. Indeed, one elderly man in Dunbeath was fluent in the language as recently as the 1950's.
Gaelic scholars might argue that Caithness Gaelic speakers were not as 'pure' in diction and vocabulary as their Hebridean counterparts. However, a friend who is a native Gaelic speaker from Lochs in Lewis once claimed that his relatives in Nova Scotia could actually hold far more fluent and 'purer' conversations in their native tongue than anyone he had ever known in Scotland.
Furthermore, take a look at a map of Caithness and see just how many Gaelic place names exist in the parishes mentioned. Therefore, bilingual signs (or monolingual as established by Comhairle nan Eilean Siar) would not be alien to parts of the county.
As for Norse, the last known varient of this was the Shetland Norn, heavily influenced by both Old Norse and Scots.
Road signs in Gaelic help, I'm sure, to promote Gaelic as an ancient yet still very valid language - as valid as it is (albeit pronounced Gay-lic) in Ireland where it is now compulsary in primary education.
The Republic of Ireland's approach to the preservation of its heritage and culture must surely be a model for all.
A country and its people can remain culturally independant within the wider European context, adding to the colourful diversity of life and cultures therein.
Oh...and I suppose someone is bound to raise the issue of whether Orkney and Shetland was legally acquired by Scotland in the first place....??
Welcomefamily
03-Jan-09, 23:25
I am a firm believer in heritage and it is important that it is potected, however I also believe in education and the later has a few priorites so seeing the money put into schooling would be much better.
At the end of the day, money coming from visit scotland or HIE or Dounray is generally still government money and if the above has additional un used funds then why not give them to the council for a new high school for Wick.
As most of the world speaks English, I will stick to that. I learnt French, went to France and they all spoke English, I learnt Spanish, went to Spain and they all spoke English, I learnt some Cornish, went to Scotland they all spoke English.
If every one content to learn English why change?
I'm very glad that Neil Oliver disagrees with the more recent spin that the Vikings were really misunderstood, peace loving farmers who simply wanted to settle down in the north of Scotland.
No, he reckons they were every bit as barbarous and blood thirsty as the movies and novels depict and that's how I'll regard them until the next bit of historical revisionism. But should it be Danish, Norwegian or Swedish that we take up in the northern counties as an antidote to Gaelic and English ?
butterfly
04-Jan-09, 21:00
i agree with eddie,sign language is a handy thing to know.there is a lot of people that rely on it.i wish sometimes i knew it because i serve a few deaf people and i wish i could communicate more with them .
Welcomefamily
04-Jan-09, 21:19
i agree with eddie,sign language is a handy thing to know.there is a lot of people that rely on it.i wish sometimes i knew it because i serve a few deaf people and i wish i could communicate more with them .
I can sign a little which is handy but Eddies idea does not take into account the large numbers of people who for some reason cant sign which could be anything from a broken arm to parkinsons, or just poor vison.
butterfly
04-Jan-09, 21:44
gaelic and norse is of no interest to my daughter and friends but they are learning sign language and enjoying it[lol]
gaelic and norse is of no interest to my daughter and friends but they are learning sign language and enjoying it[lol]
Thats great to know...I learnt sign language and Makaton many years ago and would love to brush up on my skills. An older deaf lady from Dingwall taught me and would fall about laughing when we made mistakes....pity only she got the joke. Does anywhere in Caithness teach sign language?
butterfly
04-Jan-09, 22:54
mccaugm what is makaton,is it like sign language?there is a lady who runs a youth group that has deaf people in it and it is them who teaches the sign language to any body who wants to learn.mostly teenagers who meet up every week at morags cafe or wetherspoons for a couple of hours
Makaton is like a very basic sign language for younger learners. My youngest came home from school the other week having learnt a few words in sign language. "Thank you" and "Good Afternoon". He still uses the signs on an almost daily basis. It was lovely to see, not sure who taught him. Where are you, re the sign language teacher?
butterfly
04-Jan-09, 23:04
wick,this lady is called christina raeburn.
Alice in Blunderland
05-Jan-09, 22:18
Makaton is like a very basic sign language for younger learners. My youngest came home from school the other week having learnt a few words in sign language. "Thank you" and "Good Afternoon". He still uses the signs on an almost daily basis. It was lovely to see, not sure who taught him. Where are you, re the sign language teacher?
Dont know about your kids but mine have learned most of their sign language from Justin ( Mr Tumble ) on CBeebies. :D
2little2late
06-Jan-09, 01:24
Makaton is like a very basic sign language for younger learners. My youngest came home from school the other week having learnt a few words in sign language. "Thank you" and "Good Afternoon". He still uses the signs on an almost daily basis. It was lovely to see, not sure who taught him. Where are you, re the sign language teacher?
My daughter (15) is very fluent in sign language. She is self taught and works with Enable link.
Her best friend at school is deaf and my daughter is one of the few at High School who can communicate with her. Even the teachers occasionally ask my daughter to sign for them.
My daughter has even helped her friend to speak certain words much to everyones surprise.
We are very proud of her, considering we didn't even know she was learning sign language.
George Brims
06-Jan-09, 01:51
I Only one drawback - I am useless at assembling Ikea furniture.
Well the worst experience I ever had with Ikea stuff was when my daughter moved to Australia to study, and I went over to get her settled in. I spent about a day and a half assembling a wardrobe/dressing table thing in white "laminated sawdust" as my colleague calls it. It was a piece of rubbish. I had to go out and buy her a cordless drill just to make holes in some parts to match up correctly with the more visible holes in others. After much cursing about the Swedes, I realised as I was throwing out the debris that it said in big letters on the instruction sheet "Made in the UK"!
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