View Full Version : prostitution.
What do you all think of prostitutes/brothels? I heard the other day that a brothel by law is allowed 1 madam and 1 working girl, but now its changing to 1 madam and 2 working girls. Do you think it should be like in Amsterdam where everything is legal to go to these places? and all the girls have regular check-ups.? surely it must be safer for them working in that environment. After all its the oldest profession in the book.
It really depends on how you look on it beacause a vast amount of woman that are prostitutes are vunerable woman that need the money to support there drug addictions thats one reason that i think it should be illegal to be a prostitutes.
Then there is the otherside of the argument were assuming the prostitutes arent addicted to drugs or alcohol and want to be a prostitute through there own choice then i dont see a problem with it because at least you can tax them for there work and they can be in a safer environment and i no this sounds silly but i think it would reduce rapes and sexual assualts on woman because people that commit these kind of crimes would have an alternative to go to a prostitute instead of committing that types of crime.
It really depends on how you look on it beacause a vast amount of woman that are prostitutes are vunerable woman that need the money to support there drug addictions thats one reason that i think it should be illegal to be a prostitutes.
Then there is the otherside of the argument were assuming the prostitutes arent addicted to drugs or alcohol and want to be a prostitute through there own choice then i dont see a problem with it because at least you can tax them for there work and they can be in a safer environment and i no this sounds silly but i think it would reduce rapes and sexual assualts on woman because people that commit these kind of crimes would have an alternative to go to a prostitute instead of committing that types of crime.
I agree with your first point but not that making prostitution legal, or even prostitutes more easily available, would affect assaults on women. Surely sexual assaults are random and impulsive (unless it's date rape) - maybe planning to attack any woman and just waiting for a suitable victim. Whereas visiting a prostitute is a more deliberate and organised action. I'm not really explaining this very well but I do think the two things are different. Many otherwise "respectable" men use prostitutes but wouldn't dream of attacking a stranger and the pattern of serial rapists never seems to include visiting prostitutes.
Something needs to be done as the thought of all those women, many very young, condemned to this kind of brutal slavery is unbearable. Maybe it needs to go higher up the list of police priorities as it can't be that difficult to find places where women are held against their will.
My personal opinion is that prostitution and all things connected with prostitution should be totally and 100% illegal!
Men may well have needs or desires that these women can fulfill but what about folk that have desires or fantasies about robbing banks or mugging old ladies, that behaviour would not be welcomed or tolerated, the thought of having somewhere to go to play out those ideas would be unthinkable. So what if it's the oldest profession, it does not mean it is right!
I'd say the majority of women who are prostitutes probably don't want to be and simply their circumstances or lifestyle has forced them into the profession.
It's not easy to dig yourself out of a hole but it can be done, if you want it badly enough!
I think we should remember that its gonna be the MP's of this country who are voting on this, who are mainly male. There ain't many male brothels are there??
It shouldn't be legal, its pretty degrading to women. There are plenty other ways to make money. If they can't get a job, they should stick to claiming their benefits. Lowering themselves to that sort of level is a damn shame
Degrading yes, but isn't it a free country so I'm told. I have spoken to females in this profession, well quite a few actually and most like what they are doing, there's no drugs involved with the ones i have spoken to just a huge draw to the large sums of money they can make.
I find the stories fascinating to be honest as i didn't realize that alot of what they do doesn't always involve sex. The girls i have spoken to all have children who want for nothing i might add, one even sends her 2 kids to private school with her earnings.
Tugmistress
28-Jan-06, 14:10
I am glad to see Paris has the sense to say she has spoken to people in the profession.
Not all prostitutes are 'druggies' or run by pimps that beat them up. A lot enjoy the profession due to the high earning potential. Safety is ALWAYS paramount in these girls eyes. Guys DO use prostitutes with fantasies that would turn some peoples stomaches - rape - daddy daughter scenario etc and these same gentlemen hold down respectable jobs in all communities and all walks of life. some of these guys have even been known to say to the girls helping them with their fantasy that if the girls were not available they are frightened they would do it for real.
other guys are single, they do not want complications of a relationship. others are widowers who still have an active sexual appetite. other are just your normal everyday husband looking for a little bit of something he 'dare' not ask his wife to do.
there are all sorts of reasons why guys go to a brothel.
Girls looked after in a properly run brothel that enter the profession over the age of 18 and of their own free will deserve all the support any other professional gets. they do not need the stigma of being, dirty, degraded, druggies out for their next fix, or being felt sorry for.
the act of prostitution is itself not illegal, it is the act of soliciting that is.
the sooner the archaic laws of this country are changed, the better.
a survey done a few years ago came to the conclusion that if brothels in this country were to be legalised, then the government would gain an extra £250 MILLION in revenue.
Firstly I think that prostitutution should be made legal as Eddie said in his first point yes it would help protect the working girl as for his second point No I dont agree it would not reduce sexual assaults and rapes as more often than not these crimes are not committed because the men cannot get sex it is more a factor of power and the men wielding the power.
If brothels were legalised such as in Nevada not only would the girls be protected but the men also.
Mickey 101..... Why do you think this is a totally useless thread?? I'm afraid its something which is part of life weather you like it or not. Surely this site is for discussions about every thing in life, things that we don't nessasarly like, but never the less its been here for years and will be here for many years to come. I for 1 are interested in other peoples lives and value others comment's with out going into detail if you knew my life/family maybe then you could understand why i asked this question. And i must state now i am not a working girl nor do i want to be just inquisitive to put my own mind in order.
cuddlepop
28-Jan-06, 15:10
Isn't it suppose to be one of the oldest professions? I agree it should be legalised.Has anyone thought of the handicapped or the ones with a learning disability They have needs and desires to. Dont they deserve some pleasure without the fear of being prosecuted![mad]
As far as I am aware prostitution is not, in itself, illegal. It becomes illegal by the methods used to obtain clients and the numbers involved.
Prostitutes trading on the street is illegal and where a premises is involved then two or more prostitutes, I think the term 'resorting thereto' is used, makes it a Brothel.
One prostitute, working from home, and obtaining her own clients I understand is perfectly legal.
Street-walkers are in obvious danger disappearing into the night with heaven knows who or with what intent. Prostitutes operating from home and doing so alone are equally in danger but usually their client list can be of use but only when it's too late.
Prostitution is not going to go away however much some people despise it.
The question is, how can it be made safer for the women involved both physically and medically.
How do we stop very young girls from becoming involved.
How do we stop foreign girls being enticed to this country and then becoming enslaved into working as prostitutes by unscrupulous gangs.
Distaste and moral indignation are fine but do nothing to stop women being placed in danger.
And the myth that all prostitutes are only forced into it by circumstances or by force should be dispelled. Some are, but others become prostitutes by choice, and some make a very good living from it.
Of course, they would never class themselves as anything so crass as prostitutes, they usually go under the description, amongst other titles, as Call Girls and operate out of sight.
IMHO Tugmistress makes a rather convincing case, and JAWS widens the discussion rather nicely -- as usual. :)
Note, however, that legalisation is not a panacea. I often read stories of young girls being forced to work in Amsterdam's red light district. All sorts of nasty tricks can be used to enforce this kind of "slavery".
landmarker
28-Jan-06, 16:27
Degrading yes, but isn't it a free country so I'm told. I have spoken to females in this profession, well quite a few actually and most like what they are doing, there's no drugs involved with the ones i have spoken to just a huge draw to the large sums of money they can make.
I find the stories fascinating to be honest as i didn't realize that alot of what they do doesn't always involve sex. The girls i have spoken to all have children who want for nothing i might add, one even sends her 2 kids to private school with her earnings.
Probably because she doesn't pay any tax on her earnings.
It's down to self respect isn't it?
I dont want to be overly judgemental but I dont think I'd ever use a prostitute.
It is not illegal, but to solicit oneself on the street is I think.
Now the government is relaxing the law on brothels. Fine. I expect John Prescott and his ilk will be happy for one to open next door to them, in those leafy Surrey lanes and suburbs.. I wouldn't want one next to me, would you?
Men do not have a right to find recepticles for their urges. It only because some women are either unable to support themselves in any other way or are so lacking in morality and self respect that they allow themselves to be used to this end. They leave themselves open to vile abuse.
It's a difficult subject but I'm not easy about relaxing the law. Kerb crawlers should be named, shamed, and have their vehicles crushed.
Most prositutes I imagine end up doing something else by the time they are forty - ish. Well used, clapped out and knackered. Victims in a way, yet often architects of their own misfortune.
The real downside to this is that young teenage girls -often very young- ar being pushed onto the streets. Anyone implicated in this or using their services should be done for child abuse. Simple as that.
Foreign nationals, or indeed British racketeers found guilty of trafficking girls for Prostitution should receive twenty years minimum in prison.
IMHO Tugmistress makes a rather convincing case, and JAWS widens the discussion rather nicely -- as usual. :)
Note, however, that legalisation is not a panacea. I often read stories of young girls being forced to work in Amsterdam's red light district. All sorts of nasty tricks can be used to enforce this kind of "slavery".
Very true Doc, recent high publicity Police raids in Birmingham I think have proved your point
IMHO Tugmistress makes a rather convincing case, and JAWS widens the discussion rather nicely -- as usual. :)
Note, however, that legalisation is not a panacea. I often read stories of young girls being forced to work in Amsterdam's red light district. All sorts of nasty tricks can be used to enforce this kind of "slavery".
I hope that's not a confession of why you've been absent! :evil
What you say about Amsterdam, Dr Szin, is a good point and yet another reason why the matter deserves long and serious thought.
The various extremes ranging from the Victorian "Fallen Woman" who needed to be 'Saved' and be taught some Decent Moral Standards, to the current 'Poor helpless victims of Circumstance' and the decision by both that it's all the fault of 'Evil Men' does nothing to help the prostitute.
No woman should be put in a position where they feel 'forced' to become a prostitute because they have no other choice.
Those who do so from their own choice should be allowed to and be afforded every protection that society can provide.
Doing otherwise means that they are being cared for with the same disregard as womwn and children used to be when working in the coal mines and cotton mills of Victorian Times an frankly I think they deserve better.
Tugmistress
28-Jan-06, 17:47
Probably because she doesn't pay any tax on her earnings.
Surprisingly quite a few do by using the guise of escort service which is not illegal as the girl is selling time and not services.
It's down to self respect isn't it?
I dont want to be overly judgemental but I dont think I'd ever use a prostitute.
Plenty of the girls that do this job as their own choice have a great deal of self respect, as you for yourself not using a prostitute it is every persons own individual choice.
It is not illegal, but to solicit oneself on the street is I think.
I said this earlier, well done on knowing this fact.
Now the government is relaxing the law on brothels. Fine. I expect John Prescott and his ilk will be happy for one to open next door to them, in those leafy Surrey lanes and suburbs.. I wouldn't want one next to me, would you?
that would depend on the situation, ie how well it was maintained, how discreet and being properly managed
Men do not have a right to find recepticles for their urges. It only because some women are either unable to support themselves in any other way or are so lacking in morality and self respect that they allow themselves to be used to this end. They leave themselves open to vile abuse.
This is your own personal opinion and not the way the girls see themselves.
It's a difficult subject but I'm not easy about relaxing the law. Kerb crawlers should be named, shamed, and have their vehicles crushed.
I am not a fan of prostitution on the streets, but why go to the extremes of named, shamed & car crushing when it is about their choice ... see my post above for various reasons why men seek out prostitutes. This discussion is about legalising brothels not street prostitution, two totally different scenarios.
Most prositutes I imagine end up doing something else by the time they are forty - ish. Well used, clapped out and knackered. Victims in a way, yet often architects of their own misfortune.
Not all, there are plenty of girls around after the age of 40 and after the age of 50 too. Different men like different women. Some working girls do this to put themselves through college or university to get onto the career ladder, they see it as better than getting into huge amounts of debts with a student loan and no guaranteed job at the end of it.
The real downside to this is that young teenage girls -often very young- ar being pushed onto the streets. Anyone implicated in this or using their services should be done for child abuse. Simple as that.
I certainly agree that there is no place for young teenagers in this scenario and agree with you.
Foreign nationals, or indeed British racketeers found guilty of trafficking girls for Prostitution should receive twenty years minimum in prison.
And again, well said :)
I dont want to be overly judgemental but I dont think I'd ever use a prostitute.As Tugmistress said, that's your individual choice.
Have you visited the "upmarket" corner of Amsterdam's red light district late at night? Some of the most gorgeous-looking women I've ever seen in my life either stand or sit in the garishly-lit windows there. I suspect that a good number of men who share your opinions might succumb. Of course, since I don't know you, I'm not suggesting that you personally would succumb, but it's hard not to be tempted, especially when the brain is fuelled by alcohol or waccy-baccy together with large quantities of a certain C_19 H_28 O_2.
i no this sounds silly but i think it would reduce rapes and sexual assualts on woman because people that commit these kind of crimes would have an alternative to go to a prostitute instead of committing that types of crime.
Rape is very rarely about having sex. It's usually about power and contol.
In my opinion, what two consenting adults do in a private space for whatever reason is their own business.
Prostitution exists and will always exist, so why not legalize it to monitor and contol instead of marginalizing the weakest element (the sex worker) and creating more oportunity for enslavement of them by strong and organized illegal cartels? By all means make pimping illegal so that these people do not have to degrade themselves to line another persons pocket.
By the way, I once heard sarcastic comment that one way or another a man "has to pay for it". :-)))))
How do we stop foreign girls being enticed to this country and then becoming enslaved into working as prostitutes by unscrupulous gangs.
I read an excellent article which suggested that it's time the 'clients' of trafficked women were prosecuted for rape instead of being allowed off scot-free. Too many clients turn a blind eye to the situations the women are in and it's time they accepted some responsibility.
Tugmistress
28-Jan-06, 21:15
I read an excellent article which suggested that it's time the 'clients' of trafficked women were prosecuted for rape instead of being allowed off scot-free. Too many clients turn a blind eye to the situations the women are in and it's time they accepted some responsibility.
And it is also these clients you wish to prosecute that invariably inform the authorities of the girls in this situation :confused
I read an excellent article which suggested that it's time the 'clients' of trafficked women were prosecuted for rape instead of being allowed off scot-free. Too many clients turn a blind eye to the situations the women are in and it's time they accepted some responsibility.
If the men are aware that the woman is an unwilling participant then I would agree, it would fall well within the definition of "force, fear or fraud".
The girls are brought here as illegal immigrants with promises of well paid jobs and then kept prisoner and forced into prostitution "until such time as they have paid the debt they owe the gang for being brought here", Of course, that debt never gets paid in full.
The gangs have got the girls into the Country without being caught so I see no difficulty in them making one of them "disappear" completely if she shows any sign of not making a pretence of being a willing participant.
Being in abject fear of your life can concentrate the mind wonderfully and they have probably been raped enough times by gang members to have become resigned to their fate before they ever see a client.
If the clients are aware of those facts then I see no reason why they shouldn't be prosecuted but you can guarantee that the girls won't complain until they are away from the gang and are sure they won't be returned home!
I think it should be legal. If you picture the stereotypical British one night stand it is a case of a man taking a woman for a meal and a drink. The man pays, they have sex and never see each other again. In what way does that significantly differ from someone saying "How much Luv?" and the same deed being done?
If women want to do that sort of work for money then who are we to say no? If a woman is desperate enough to make cash and you prevent her from raising the money via prostitution, then what other, potentially more desperate, measure might she feel the need to resort to?
By the way, women also pay for sex. It might be less common and potentially via the more sanitized route of the Escort industry but it happens.
I say, let the women cut out the middlemen (pimps) and carry out their business without the stigma of illegality imposed by a two-faced government to appease certain, outdated sections of the community.
As Silvio replied to Tony Soprano, "The only two industries that have proved to be recession proof throughout History are, Certain Aspects of Showbusiness and, Our Thing"
As a father of daughters and a son of an unmarried mother who felt societies prejudices from the shame of the times I have great difficulty with this question.
I cant for the life of me say its ok lets have a brothel in Caithness. No matter how pretty a picture some of you paint regarding legalisation its a deeply moral area of human relationship that affects countless people, men women and children. There are many moral questions to be posed and considered.
Of course my concerns are purely subjective and I am not daft enough to think my personal prejudices matter one iota but if you guys and gals who consider it should be legal could tell me how you would feel if your daughter or your son was taken on as an apprentice at the local brothel how you would feel and handle it, perhaps it would help me to be more objective.
landmarker
28-Jan-06, 23:57
[QUOTE=DrSzin]As Tugmistress said, that's your individual choice.
Have you visited the "upmarket" corner of Amsterdam's red light district late at night? Some of the most gorgeous-looking women I've ever seen in my life either stand or sit in the garishly-lit windows there. I suspect that a good number of men who share your opinions might succumb. Of course, since I don't know you.....QUOTE]
No, you dont, nor I you.
I have no wish or desire to get intimate with a woman who may have had half a dozen other blokes do the same in the space of a few hours. It's personal choice as you confirm.
I've been married a long time, and loyal. If circumstances were different I'd rely on my social skills were I to require another bed mate.
Of all the European capitals Amsterdam appeals the least. Upmarket or not.
There are things I do in my personal life which do not always meet the highest criteria. I wear the same socks two days in a row sometimes & leave my clothes in a heap by the bed, much to the chagrin of my wife ! I do have some standards though and not
using prostitutes is one of 'em.
As a father of daughters and a son of an unmarried mother who felt societies prejudices from the shame of the times I have great difficulty with this question.
I cant for the life of me say its ok lets have a brothel in Caithness. No matter how pretty a picture some of you paint regarding legalisation its a deeply moral area of human relationship that affects countless people, men women and children. There are many moral questions to be posed and considered.
Of course my concerns are purely subjective and I am not daft enough to think my personal prejudices matter one iota but if you guys and gals who consider it should be legal could tell me how you would feel if your daughter or your son was taken on as an apprentice at the local brothel how you would feel and handle it, perhaps it would help me to be more objective.
Not often I agree with my owld pal Gleeber, but I am 100% with you on this issue, I have tried to imagine how I would feel if any of my family had felt to go down that road, but I just cannot get my head around that. :confused:
landmarker
29-Jan-06, 00:08
I quote 'gleeber'
What's this title supposed to mean ?
Who says prostitutes are not loved by someone?
Many have children who will love them.
Many of their 'punters' will be loved.
To reduce the debate to such a personal level
as 'would you like your daughter to be an apprentice at a brothel' is hardly a basis for objectivity.
I repeat I would not want a brothel next door to me or just up the street.
In Manchester there are scores of massage parlours which are fronts for Prostitution. The Police seem to tolerate them. I couldn't tell you where one of them was located , but at least our neighborhood is brothel (and massage parlour) free. Long may it remain so.
It's a topic best swept under the carpet (and OFF the streets) in my opinion. It will never be stopped. It's largely down to human weakness and the law of supply and demand.
i'll vote legal see no probs there theres plenty in every town.
No, you dont, nor I you.
I have no wish or desire to get intimate with a woman who may have had half a dozen other blokes do the same in the space of a few hours. It's personal choice as you confirm.
I've been married a long time, and loyal. If circumstances were different I'd rely on my social skills were I to require another bed mate.
Of all the European capitals Amsterdam appeals the least. Upmarket or not.
There are things I do in my personal life which do not always meet the highest criteria. I wear the same socks two days in a row sometimes & leave my clothes in a heap by the bed, much to the chagrin of my wife ! I do have some standards though and not
using prostitutes is one of 'em.
You quote YOUR feelings on the matter. Just as it is with Homosexuality, it is YOUR opinion. Why not try to look beyond your own feelings and look at how society should approach a situation? After all YOUR opinion is unlikely to match that of the populous. What if your social skills were not enough to attract another mate? Should you deny your urges, commit suicide, how would you deal with your desires?
The human being is a sexually driven being, after all who would bother with sex if it was only for having kids? If the act did not give pleasure you can be sure the race would have died out many moons ago.
I understand the feelings of some on this thread with regard to family members being involved in this line of work, but unfortunatley it is a fact of life that prostitutes exist and do you not think that if it was legalised it would bring in more rights for these women. These women are raped and assaulted every day and although it their choice to go into this line of work we cannot tar them all with the same brush of being drug abusers, when is rape a rape when your refusing to pay for it?? Nobody wants a brothel on their doorstep but if it was controlled in some way could they not keep these establishments away from residential areas....
Of all the European capitals Amsterdam appeals the least. Upmarket or not.Lol, by "upmarket" I meant the corner of the red light district where the best-looking women ply their trade. It's not really upmarket in the usual sense of the word. There are more "downmarket" areas I can assure you.
I like Amsterdam, it's not nearly as sleazy as it sounds. The canal area is great, with interesting architecture, and great markets. It has good pubs with good beer, decent restaurants, good cafes and interesting "coffee shops". It has fabulous museums: the van Gogh museum is superb, Anne Frank's house is humbling, and there are even sex museums which I won't go into here. The Scheepvaartmuseum is worth a visit if only because it's pronounced "sheep fart museum". :lol: There are many, many more museums but I haven't been to them. It's also very cosmopolitan.
I'm far from convinced by their liberal attitude to soft drugs like cannabis, but it's an interesting society nonetheless.
BTW Amsterdam isn't the capital of the Netherlands. That honour falls to The Hague. Now, there's an uninspiring place if ever there was one. I've spent a few days there and couldn't find many redeeming features -- I'd much rather spend time in Amsterdam. In fact I can't think of any European capital city that's less interesting than The Hague.
Hmm, I've gone hopelessly off-topic, and I don't have any first-hand experience of the subject at hand, so I'll shutup right now.
Tugmistress
29-Jan-06, 01:26
Not often I agree with my owld pal Gleeber, but I am 100% with you on this issue, I have tried to imagine how I would feel if any of my family had felt to go down that road, but I just cannot get my head around that. :confused:
unfortunately because of the outdated stigma attached to this profession i would be surprised if even your sister (as an example) would tell you if she were to follow this profession.
many of the girls have to lead double lives and husbands, boyfriends, brothers, mums, aunts sisters etc just thing they are 'cleaners' or 'restaurant workers' or any other job title they make up that fits in with the hours they choose to work. most are never found out either even by their closest family member or friend. it can be a very loney and stressful life, the only true friends you have are the other girls you work with that are in the same situtation.
Lonely indeed, Tugmistress, and when something happens to one of them, provided it's not too horrific, they have a natural reluctance to talk to the Police. It takes a lot of persuasion to convince them that any questions are not intended to set some of them up for arrest.
And the general public don't help. It was only when the Yorkshire Ripper happened top pick a nice, sweet, young lady for a victim, instead of 'just another prostitute', that most people increased their level of interest.
Until then it was only prostitutes who were half asking for it anyway, weren't they. If they'd been decent girls it wouldn't have happened to them, they had only themselves to blame really, hadn't they? As if that made them less of a human being and less deserving of protection.
"Have you seen this in the paper? Another prostitute murdered. Ooh look! Sell-it-all have a sale on, lets see what's on offer!"
Lol, by "upmarket" I meant the corner of the red light district where the best-looking women ply their trade. It's not really upmarket in the usual sense of the word. There are more "downmarket" areas I can assure you.
I like Amsterdam, it's not nearly as sleazy as it sounds. The canal area is great, with interesting architecture, and great markets. It has good pubs with good beer, decent restaurants, good cafes and interesting "coffee shops". It has fabulous museums: the van Gogh museum is superb, Anne Frank's house is humbling, and there are even sex museums which I won't go into here. The Scheepvaartmuseum is worth a visit if only because it's pronounced "sheep fart museum". :lol: There are many, many more museums but I haven't been to them. It's also very cosmopolitan.
I'm far from convinced by their liberal attitude to soft drugs like cannabis, but it's an interesting society nonetheless.
BTW Amsterdam isn't the capital of the Netherlands. That honour falls to The Hague. Now, there's an uninspiring place if ever there was one. I've spent a few days there and couldn't find many redeeming features -- I'd much rather spend time in Amsterdam. In fact I can't think of any European capital city that's less interesting than The Hague.
Hmm, I've gone hopelessly off-topic, and I don't have any first-hand experience of the subject at hand, so I'll shutup right now.
Have to agree with you Doc, been in Amsterdam a few times, nice for a look around, Teasers is a good bar! Must try out some o the museum's next time i'm over!!!:grin:
As a father of daughters and a son of an unmarried mother who felt societies prejudices from the shame of the times I have great difficulty with this question.
I cant for the life of me say its ok lets have a brothel in Caithness. No matter how pretty a picture some of you paint regarding legalisation its a deeply moral area of human relationship that affects countless people, men women and children. There are many moral questions to be posed and considered.
Of course my concerns are purely subjective and I am not daft enough to think my personal prejudices matter one iota but if you guys and gals who consider it should be legal couldtell me how you would feel if your daughter or your son was taken on as an apprentice at the local brothel how you would feel and handle it, perhaps it would help me to be more objective.
With regards to my first post, i asked this question as it is the sole reason i at the ripe old age of 46 are now bringing up a 5yr old ( my grandson ) My son got involved with a young girl who we didn't know any history about having just moved to the area some years ago. A few months down the line we heard through the grape-vine that she AND her mother were /are..ladies of the night.. our son and us didn't believe it and just thought it was people gossiping like they do. Unfortunately it turned out to be true and to say our son was devastated is an understatement. Yes our grandson is my sons without a doubt but she will not take responsibility for him so its down to us. Its like Gleeber says " how would you feel if it was one of yours " It is one of ours via my son and even though our little man is now 5 i still find it very hard to deal with what his mother does for a job. I don't have a problem with prostitutes in general but when its that close to home its a different matter all together. How do i tell our grandson why he doesn't live with his mum? or why she doesn't want him,? when do i tell him????? Do i tell him ? What is the answer? because i sure the hell don't know what to say when the questions start coming.My son and his lady friend split when his son was born as she went back to WORK !!!!
unfortunately because of the outdated stigma attached to this profession i would be surprised if even your sister (as an example) would tell you if she were to follow this profession.
many of the girls have to lead double lives and husbands, boyfriends, brothers, mums, aunts sisters etc just thing they are 'cleaners' or 'restaurant workers' or any other job title they make up that fits in with the hours they choose to work. most are never found out either even by their closest family member or friend. it can be a very loney and stressful life, the only true friends you have are the other girls you work with that are in the same situtation.
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Im no convinced that it should be legalised willy nilly although I am convinced legalasion would help the girls.
My concerns surround the punters. Would anyone with a fistful of dollars be entitled to his goods? Would there be any way of checking these guys out? How about a guy would need a license to be in a brothel. He could get one from the council offices renewable yearly? What about advertising? Would schools promote prositution as a career for their pupils?
The stigma as I see it is the main problem. Whilst in principal I could agree with the notion in practice it would be a nightmare. Society already sweeps enough taboos into the back alleys and corners of our towns without facing up to the reality of the situation.
Education about prejudice and stigma, neither of which are unchangable human emotions would be a step in the right direction.
If we are going to legalise things on paper we have to make attempts to legalise them in the minds of people too.
Sorry Paris, I missed your post about your personal experiences. Thats fantastic. you got a 5 year old boy out of something so destructive to your sons emotions. He will bloom I am sure. Love has a way of healing infected emotions.
when the time comes for him to ask questions he will be equipped to handle your answers. Family secrets are one of the major difficulties wee people have to grow up with. They are aware something is wrong and often because they dont know or understand what is wrong, they will interpret there is something wrong with them. Thats an unconscious notion many of us bring with us from our childhoods.
Hope your right Gleeber, life can be so cruel sometimes. It makes you think what you did wrong to deserve the crap life throws at you.
landmarker
29-Jan-06, 17:36
[QUOTE=DrSzin]
BTW Amsterdam isn't the capital of the Netherlands. That honour falls to The Hague. Now, there's an uninspiring place if ever there was one. I've spent a few days there and couldn't find many redeeming features -- I'd much rather spend time in Amsterdam. In fact I can't think of any European capital city that's less interesting than The Hague.
QUOTE]
You are quite right Doctor and I am appalled at my mistake. I blame the bitter. Though in truth I may have made the same mistake sober. I have been to Holland many, many times but sped through on those fine roads.
Never lingered long enough for anything more than a cup of coffee.
landmarker
29-Jan-06, 17:39
You quote YOUR feelings on the matter..
Just re-read the very first sentence of this thread please Scorrie.
landmarker
29-Jan-06, 17:50
Paris: though the circumstances are very different I am also a grandfather of a little girl whose father has chosen to remain absent totally from her life.
He was engaged to my daughter (in her thirties) & when wedding plans were firmly laid she fell pregnant. The oaf was then discovered dallying with ex-girlfriends and given his marching orders.
We may well have similar questions to face in the future about absent parents. We already have actually, she is not behind the door when it comes to seeing children with their 'Daddy's'.
At the moment she is satisfied with my ' ....I never had a grandad, but you have one, all families are different '
Of course some years down the line her curiosity might be all consuming.
Honesty has to be the best policy, even if it is hard to take. Of course in your case the full facts might have to be embroidered a little but you strike me as well up to the task. When adolesence passes I believe all bets are off and the whole truth , if sought, should be given.
Paris, I think that both you and your son can be very proud and have every cause to hold your heads high in a very difficult situation.
How much simpler it would have made your lives to just shrug, write it off to experience, turn your backs, and walk away. That would have been many peoples actions in your situation.
Neither of you did that, you took responsibility for your grandson's upbringing when the mother obviously couldn't be bothered.
You should accept no blame or be made to feel any shame by anyone. If anybody tries that then ask yourself one question, "Would they have been brave enough to do the same as you?" In fact, ask them straight out, "Are you saying I should have turned my back on an innocent baby and left it to it's fate?" And I suspect they won't want to answer that question too quickly.
The mother's chosen life and her behaviour towards her child are for her to explain away, it's not your responsibility to do that, and if anybody thinks otherwise, tell them to go to Hell were they belong!
People who pass the actions of the parents onto small children make my blood really boil. It's one of the few actions in life that is still able to affect my feelings, I find it a really hateful thing to do!
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