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bekisman
29-Nov-08, 16:54
Been down here in Lancashire for a bit and took a trip over to St Annes on the Sea and parked up in a disabled space, making sure my blue 'Highland Council' issued Blue Badge was in the correct position (I also get Road Tax exemption, so 'Disabled' is on the tax disk). we come back to the car half an hour later and find a 'Penalty Charge Notice' stuck on the windscreen - some 'Jobsworth' stating; "Your clock is missing"..
Well I don't have a bloody clock (as is with all of Scotland) so I've got to fork out £70 or £35 if I pay up quickly.. Seems totally moronic that had I parked without a disabled badge OR a tax exampt disk I would still be done for the same amount..
Being a cripple ain't much fun and as I was trained by Lancashire Fire Service at Washington Hall before getting knackered legs and moving to Scotland 20years ago, I'm not impressed with the Morons who work for Lancs Council who don't have an ounce of common sense..

Appeal? why? I did not follow the 'rules' so tough!

changilass
29-Nov-08, 17:04
Could you not have gotten a clock so you would have been legal???

bekisman
29-Nov-08, 17:17
"Could you not have gotten a clock so you would have been legal??? "

Where? I live in Highland region where clocks don't exist, I was unaware that the English system made them mandatory, where do I get one? My point was that although it was bleeding obvious I am disabled my lack of clock is treated as very serious..

changilass
29-Nov-08, 17:22
Sorry but when in Rome and all that. From what I remember it does say on the notices that clocks must be visible. Unfortunately, they are well within their rights to expect you to follow rules, why should you get away with it when locals don't.

May seem a bitty harsh, but Scotland and England have different rules on a number of things, and its up to us to work out what we can and can't do, just the same as it would be if we were going abroad.

Aaldtimer
29-Nov-08, 17:24
To help me understand...what is the "clock" you speak of, and why do you have to have one? :confused

changilass
29-Nov-08, 17:27
In England you have a cardboard clock with hands that you set to the time it is when you leave your car (a bit like the ones you use to teach kids the time), its so that the traffic wardens know how long you have been there.

Aaldtimer
29-Nov-08, 17:32
Ah right, I see. If the same system isn't used here, would you not have the right to some sort of appeal (as a visitor)?

changilass
29-Nov-08, 17:39
If you are going to appeal, it might be a good idea to see if they will still allow you to pay the reduced amount after the appeal, if not it may not be worth it.

The main problem would be if there was a sign near where you parked, stating that you must have your clock visible, if so you probably don't stand a chance.

Goldie
29-Nov-08, 17:44
Hi there bekisman just to say same happened to my husband. We didn't realise that we had to display a clock either. We wrote to the address at the back of the ticket expaining that Scotland don't issue the clock display card. We recieved a letter back saying they had withdrawn the fine and apologised for the inconvience. It is a pain as most parking wardens are aware and will accept a badge with no clock if they see the badge is issued (which is stamped on the badge) in Scotland. So it will be worth you sending a letter with a photo copy of your badge as proof explaining the Scottish system. If you want any help give me a shout. Good Luck (we have now got a clock display card ready for our next visit!)

TBH
29-Nov-08, 17:50
I think they should fine disabled people for parking in the parking spaces of the able-bodied.

binbob
29-Nov-08, 18:20
I think they should fine disabled people for parking in the parking spaces of the able-bodied.

u are sick..and sad...[disgust]

Bad Manners
29-Nov-08, 18:41
We had a similar problem and we spoke to the highland council who issued my blue badge and they supplied me with a clock for use when I travel down south

Goldie
29-Nov-08, 18:47
I think they should fine disabled people for parking in the parking spaces of the able-bodied.



To be honest TBH! the percentage of disabled parking spaces in car parks are very low -So sometimes there is no choice but to use spaces that are not marked for the disabled badge holder - some car parks do charge you if you are in a space that is not put in place for disabled badge holders - so that will please you!

Non badge holders can be fined for using the disabled space so if there were more disabled parking spaces - leaving less space for non-badge holders wouldn't that make you cross if the disabled spaces were empty and you couldn't park!!

By the way I have never met a disabled badge holder that wouldn't trade in their badge if they could trade in their disability and their pain to go with it!

So to be honest TBH think before you type!!!

manloveswife
29-Nov-08, 18:48
Hi,
Any form of parking in Lancs is hardwork, just hailed from there about 18 month back.
The Wardens are now some sort of independent company, and no longer fall under the Police / council.
They have targets to meet and I believe also get paid (or did) in some shape or form based on the number of tickets they issue.

I have to say they are most definately sneaky and jobsworth in their behaviour, many a time you can watch them hiding round a corner or even in bushes, they fill out the ticket then promptly walk past the "offending" vehicle and slap it on.

They can walk past the same car day in day out, with a permit in place for residents parking, but should it fall on the floor, get displayed upside down or such like you can guarantee a ticket within minutes.

It is worth appealing though, as from time to time they will overturn a decision and I would have thought this was as good a candidate for appeal as any. My parking permit fell on the floor when a draft caught it as I shut the car door, 5 minutes later the penalty notice was on the window, I managed to get that one overturned so its definately worth a go.

As an aside, I know washington hall, and it is still a sight to see the plumes of black smoke when they are training, looks like armageddon. Bet you were keen to come back here though O.P, nothing much good down there anymore.

wifie
29-Nov-08, 18:49
May I ask what is the point of the badge? Are you limited to time constraints of car parks too? I thought the whole point of disabled badges was you could park where and when you wanted.

muffin
29-Nov-08, 18:50
I really sympathise with you getting a ticket, I can imagine your heart sinking when you realised you had got one, just another example of the petty beurocracy throughout England and Scotland, please do appeal and perhaps a letter to Watchdog.

TBH
29-Nov-08, 19:21
u are sick..and sad...[disgust]I don't feel particularly sad at the moment but thanks for the adjective. Please explain why you think I am sick?:roll:

Goldie
29-Nov-08, 19:58
May I ask what is the point of the badge? Are you limited to time constraints of car parks too? I thought the whole point of disabled badges was you could park where and when you wanted.


Hi there wifie - The badge comes with a whole set of do's and dont's and whilst it gives a great help there are restrictions. However the badge is a great help.

northener
29-Nov-08, 20:20
Bekisman,

Appeal definitely.
What Chaniglass says about there being notices telling you to set your clock is only partially correct. These signs are not displayed everywhere...in fact I would say that the majority of disabled bays make no reference to clocks.

Goldie's experience echoes that of an acquantance of mine, so get yer appeal in.

wifie
29-Nov-08, 20:27
Yes I forgot to say - appeal appeal!

Thanks Goldie!

JoeSoap
29-Nov-08, 22:06
Been down here in Lancashire for a bit and took a trip over to St Annes on the Sea and parked up in a disabled space, making sure my blue 'Highland Council' issued Blue Badge was in the correct position (I also get Road Tax exemption, so 'Disabled' is on the tax disk). we come back to the car half an hour later and find a 'Penalty Charge Notice' stuck on the windscreen - some useless "I can't do anything else so I'm a parking warden moron" states that; "Your clock is missing"..
Well I don't have a bloody clock (as is with all of Scotland) so I've got to fork out £70 or £35 if I pay up quickly.. Seems totally moronic that had I parked without a disabled badge OR a tax exampt disk I would still be done for the same amount..
Being a cripple ain't much fun and as I was trained by Lancashire Fire Service at Washington Hall before getting knackered legs and moving to Scotland 20years ago, I'm not impressed with the Morons who work for Lancs Council who don't have an ounce of common sense..

Appeal? why? I did not follow the 'rules' so tough!
I don't get it. Did you know you needed a clock but parked there anyway or did you not know you needed one?

If the former then you wilfully ignored the parking regulations and shouldn't be surprised to get a ticket.

If the latter, why is your understanding of the rules governing your blue badge anybody's responsibility but yours? Lancashire Council is hardly going to write to every blue-badge holder in Britain reminding them to display their clock.

As for the way you talk about the Parking Warden – you should be ashamed of yourself. [disgust]

The time restrictions on disabled bays are there for your benefit. Disabled spaces are obviously in demand where you parked so you are limited to a few hours parking so others can also use the space (and vice versa). The only way to enforce that is to have wardens and they need some way of knowing when you arrived – the clock.

Your blue badge looks very similar to those issued by Lancashire Council so how is the warden to distinguish between somebody who doesn't have a clock (you) and somebody who hasn't displayed their clock to try and avoid having to move their car?

Clearly you feel angry about getting a ticket. By all means, throw the dice and submit an appeal if you think you'll get away with it... but don't pretend you weren't in the wrong.

wifie
29-Nov-08, 22:11
Hmmm I have to say I didn't think of it the way you are describing Joesoap! This is the kind of thread I like on the org where I find out stuff I did not know or perhaps even think about! To some, several of the posts in this thread may seem like moaning, whingeing or even a slanging match but I think this is a good goin discussion which raises some interesting points.

binbob
29-Nov-08, 22:13
I think they should fine disabled people for parking in the parking spaces of the able-bodied.

i personally have NEVER seen any parking bays saying .ABLE BODIED PARKING ONLY............maybe one day u will be unfortunate to need a disabled badge/parking bay...so be careful.thanks for bad rep ..well done.MERRY CHRISTMAS.[disgust]

TBH
29-Nov-08, 22:20
i personally have NEVER seen any parking bays saying .ABLE BODIED PARKING ONLY............maybe one day u will be unfortunate to need a disabled badge/parking bay...so be careful.thanks for bad rep ..well done.MERRY CHRISTMAS.[disgust]Most people make the best of their lives no matter what disability they have but I am sure they will be grateful for the patronization.

sweetpea
29-Nov-08, 22:21
I used to have a job near a car park that welcomed disabled drivers but their disabilities got worse so they couldn't drive and they couldn't park there so the spaces went unused:(

Kevin Milkins
29-Nov-08, 22:29
i personally have NEVER seen any parking bays saying .ABLE BODIED PARKING ONLY............maybe one day u will be unfortunate to need a disabled badge/parking bay...so be careful.thanks for bad rep ..well done.MERRY CHRISTMAS.[disgust]

Its not the first time you have jumped to the wrong conclusion when a poster is introducing a bit of humour to a thread.

I would find it hard to believe that anyone would have taken TBH's post serious or been offended by it.

STUDMUFFIN
29-Nov-08, 22:36
its not the first time you have jumped to the wrong conclusion when a poster is introducing a bit of humour to a thread.

I would find it hard to believe that anyone would have taken tbh's post serious or been offended by it.




ditto.............

TBH
29-Nov-08, 22:47
Its not the first time you have jumped to the wrong conclusion when a poster is introducing a bit of humour to a thread.

I would find it hard to believe that anyone would have taken TBH's post serious or been offended by it.


ditto.............Thank you both for taking the post as it was intended. You both obviously realise that people with a disability are no different to anyone else and they have no wish to be patronized, hell, here's a shock to some, they even have a sense of humour.:D

poppett
29-Nov-08, 23:15
OH has a blue badge and a clock for visits south, courtesy of Highland Council.

What we have found most annoying in the south is that some car parks even though they have disabled bays expect the car to be "paid and displayed" as having the blue badge does not make one automatically exempt.

It means always treking to the notice board to read the rules, but if it saves a fine, then it`s worth it.

wifie
29-Nov-08, 23:21
OH has a blue badge and a clock for visits south, courtesy of Highland Council.

What we have found most annoying in the south is that some car parks even though they have disabled bays expect the car to be "paid and displayed" as having the blue badge does not make one automatically exempt.

It means always treking to the notice board to read the rules, but if it saves a fine, then it`s worth it.

Not bein patronizing at all but I am gonna stop moanin about car parks and parking! (Well except for the NCP one near the Ramada Jarvis in Perth cos it is full of huge pot holes - no make that craters!)

bekisman
29-Nov-08, 23:32
Joe Soap: I don't get it. Did you know you needed a clock but parked there anyway (what!?) or did you not know you needed one? (did not know)

If the former then you wilfully ignored the parking regulations and shouldn't be surprised to get a ticket. (see above)

If the latter, why is your understanding of the rules governing your blue badge anybody's responsibility but yours? Lancashire Council is hardly going to write to every blue-badge holder in Britain reminding them to display their clock. (no sign to say put 'clock' in window - is that ok with you?)

As for the way you talk about the Parking Warden – you should be ashamed of yourself. [disgust] (why do you assume you have the right to tell me my action is shameful ref my opinions?):confused

The time restrictions on disabled bays are there for your benefit. Disabled spaces are obviously in demand where you parked so you are limited to a few hours parking so others can also use the space (and vice versa). The only way to enforce that is to have wardens and they need some way of knowing when you arrived – the clock. (having been a cripple for over 20 years I find it hard to 'move around' and like kindred spirits are usually back in the car withion the hour - wierd how it has not occured to you to qustion why Scotland do not have 'clocks')

Your blue badge looks very similar (is this observation from experience? mine states in large leters HIGHLAND COUNCIL - if a warden cannot see that from a passing glance he's blind) to those issued by Lancashire Council so how is the warden to distinguish between somebody who doesn't have a clock (you) and somebody who hasn't displayed their clock to try and avoid having to move their car? (see 'Highland Council' in one inch high letters?)

Clearly you feel angry about getting a ticket. By all means, throw the dice and submit an appeal if you think you'll get away with it... but don't pretend you weren't in the wrong. (Right, I will reiterate just for you; 1. I live in Scotland. 2. Scotland do not use clocks. 3. I parked in a disabled bay with my 'badge' on display. 4. No sign says I must also display a -non-existant clock.
Is that clear enough even for you?

Kevin Milkins
29-Nov-08, 23:35
I have sympathy for berkesman on this as it's such a nightmare with parking down South without any added stress.:(

My elderly mother-in-law has a blue ticket and a clock for parking.

Whenever she is with us up here or when I go down to Wales I use her ticket ,but have never used the clock, so I am now warned.:eek:

I have never been much of a one for reading instructions or signs and it has left me out of pocket on more than one occasion:mad:

changilass
29-Nov-08, 23:38
I would have had sympathy if they hadn't come on making nasty remarks about others just cos they were doing their jobs and then getting very nasty and defensive when others have queried the situation.

wifie
29-Nov-08, 23:43
"I can't do anything else so I'm a parking warden moron" states that; "Your clock is missing"..
As for the way you talk about the Parking Warden – you should be ashamed of yourself. [disgust] (why do you assume you have the right to tell me my action is shameful ref my opinions?):confused

Bekisman you do have a right to your opinion but Parking Warden is a job, albeit probably not a great one, and some poor beggar has to do it! Sadly have you thought as well that they might not know that "Highland" is infact in Scotland!

ads
29-Nov-08, 23:56
While in Dumfries a few weeks ago I had to display a clock on the front dash to comply with parking regulations. I have been required to use this system in Fort William and Stornoway.

brokencross
30-Nov-08, 00:04
When you got the Blue badge there will have been a leaflet/booklet which you were asked to read and it clearly states:-

"HOW TO USE THE DISABLED PERSON'S PARKING DISC

+ In Scotland and Northern Ireland, there is no time restriction on parking for Blue Badge holders, unless local restrictions apply.

+ In England and Wales you will need a parking disc which must be displayed every time you park. This should be set to show the time of arrival.

+ Badge holders living in Scotland who intend to visit England or Wales should apply to their Local Authority for the loan of a parking disc which can be used for the duration of their stay in England and Wales."

On the other hand, very recently in Wales a ticket was issued but on explaining and appealling the ticket was withdrawn. http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2008/10/09/warden-books-car-for-scots-disabled-badge-at-llandudno-55243-21994107/

So appeal politely with timid humility and hope for the best. (Then it might be an idea to read all the blurb about the Blue Badge scheme)

TBH
30-Nov-08, 00:14
When you got the Blue badge there will have been a leaflet/booklet which you were asked to read and it clearly states:-

"HOW TO USE THE DISABLED PERSON'S PARKING DISC

+ In Scotland and Northern Ireland, there is no time restriction on parking for Blue Badge holders, unless local restrictions apply.

+ In England and Wales you will need a parking disc which must be displayed every time you park. This should be set to show the time of arrival.

+ Badge holders living in Scotland who intend to visit England or Wales should apply to their Local Authority for the loan of a parking disc which can be used for the duration of their stay in England and Wales."

On the other hand, very recently in Wales a ticket was issued but on explaining and appealling the ticket was withdrawn. http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2008/10/09/warden-books-car-for-scots-disabled-badge-at-llandudno-55243-21994107/

So appeal politely with timid humility and hope for the best. (Then it might be an idea to read all the blurb about the Blue Badge scheme)Maybe it would have paid to look into the different laws that the dark side, Englund, live by.

Kodiak
30-Nov-08, 00:26
Just for information here is the Link for the Department of Transport Booklet on the Blue Badge Scheme, Rights and Responsibilities in England :-


http://www.dft.gov.uk/transportforyou/access/bluebadge/pubs/factsheets/thebluebadgescheme.pdf


I would suggest all people who have a Blue Badge download and print off a copy for future reference, I have.

Moira
30-Nov-08, 00:41
As the main driver for a Blue Badge holder in the Highlands, I find this thread very interesting. There have always been HUGE misunderstandings about what the Badge entitles the holder to do. Here's a link I found helpful :-
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/MotoringAndTransport/DG_4001061

I have to say that I was not aware of the clock law in England as highlighted by Bekisman. I had wrongly assumed that the European symbol meant we could park anywhere, anytime (within reason of course) without fear of a parking ticket.

I must admit that I wouldn't have given the local parking restrictions a glance ordinarily. I'll take better care now. :D

Kevin Milkins
30-Nov-08, 00:46
Not wishing to go off thread, but an example of why it can make a person that has respect for the law and tries to live by the rules change attitude.

I worked as a sales rep covering South Wales for a DIY supplies wholesaler and had to make a call to a builders merchant in the back streets of Abergavenny.

It's not a good place to pull your car into as lorrys and forklift trucks doing what they do and not a lot of space, but the side street next to the yard has plenty of space to park.

I have read the sign that says residents parking and my understanding is that its Ok to park there in the day because the residents are all at work and there is plenty of space to park (about 20 spaces and only 2 cars parked).

I make this call every 2 weeks and have parked there for over a year and suddenly I get a ticket, so I read the sign again and it still looks as I read it in the first place.:eek::confused

I made an appeal and although everyone agreed that it made sense that its OK to park in the day, but not after 6pm when the residents would need to park there I still had to pay the the fine.:mad:

JoeSoap
30-Nov-08, 00:47
no sign to say put 'clock' in window - is that ok with you?
Do you go through life expecting everything covered by regulations to be adorned with signs stating what those regulations are? I certainly don't.

The fact remains, you went to another country which has different legislation to your own and you are responsible for ensuring you understand those differences. Your blue badge may be portable but the legislation behind it is not.


why do you assume you have the right to tell me my action is shameful ref my opinions?
Why do you assume you have the right to inflict your opinions upon me? Tit-for-tat.

If you are going to publicly state that somebody you have never met is a 'useless moron' simply for doing their job then I am going to publicly disagree with you.

I've said it before and I'll surely say it again, freedom of speech cuts both ways.


wierd how it has not occured to you to qustion why Scotland do not have 'clocks'
You were driving in England. You parked your car in England. You were fined by an English council. You were subject to English legislation.

The reasons for Scotland not adopting the 'clock' system are, in this instance, irrelevant.


mine states in large leters HIGHLAND COUNCIL - if a warden cannot see that from a passing glance he's blind
Or, perhaps, the training to be a traffic warden in the English county of Lancashire does not include any lessons in Scottish law?


Right, I will reiterate just for you;

1. I live in Scotland.
2. Scotland do not use clocks.
3. I parked in a disabled bay with my 'badge' on display.
4. No sign says I must also display a -non-existant clock.

Is that clear enough even for you?
You missed a few.

2a. You were in England
2b. England does use 'clocks'

Let's put it another way... In America it is legal to turn right on a red light. If an American were visiting this country and did the same should they be reprimanded/fined by the authorities for dangerous and illegal driving?

If you think they should, how would you feel if they then told you that it was a disgrace and they should have been allowed to drive that way because that's how they drive in the States and there were no signs on the lights to tell them that red meant stop even when turning right???

JoeSoap
30-Nov-08, 00:59
+ Badge holders living in Scotland who intend to visit England or Wales should apply to their Local Authority for the loan of a parking disc which can be used for the duration of their stay in England and Wales."
Well that's what's wrong then... as soon as a council in England learns that somebody from Scotland has booked a hotel room in their area they should immediately telephone that person and remind them to bring a 'clock' along if they are a disabled driver.

Heaven forbid we should expect the individuals to take any kind of responsibility for reading and remembering a leaflet they received with their blue badge. :roll:

Whitewater
30-Nov-08, 01:12
My first encounter with a clock was in Ramsay, Isle of Man. It was a free carpark with a time limit of 2hrs. However, if you did not have a clock there was a notice telling you that one could be had from the shop on the corner, so I simply went along, obtained one, and displayed it. No problem. But I can understand where 'bekisman' is coming from and his annoyance at being booked, particularly when he thought he was right and in a municipal car park with no friendly notice telling you that a clock was required or where to get one. It may be all very well saying you should read all the blurp that comes along with the badge, but how many of us do so, and if we did, do we remember all the fine details, particularly if you have had the badge for many years and have not been in the habit of flitting between countries. I am not disabled but, my mother in law is, and my wife and I take he out shopping from time to time. So I have come to the conclusion that 'TBHs' suggestion of using an ordinary parking slot is not really a good idea. You need the extra space provided at the disabled spot so that you can erect the wheel chair and take it round to the side of the car so that the disabled person can be assisted out of the car and placed in the chair. I'm sure that if you attempted to do that in an ordinary space there would be an uproar, you would probably remove chunks of paint from the neighbouring vehicles as you attempted to carry out the transfer. That is of course if you could get between the vehicles in the first place, there is not normally enough room to get the car door opened properly, let alone to exit the car.

'bekisman' may have been wrong not to have a clock but does it really matter, most traffic wardens I know who are doing their job properly are aware of the time when a car is parked, and work out their time limits from that, a simple bit of observation.
Make your appeal berkisman and good luck with it.

wifie
30-Nov-08, 01:45
I would like to say that I hope the idiots, who have no need to, who park in disabled spaces have a good read of this thread! I hope it at least makes them think of the problems which disabled drivers or passengers may come across. Sadly most of them do this in places like supermarket car parks where they will get away with it! I think this should be better dealt with by the shops instead of impressing us with their hiding of the carrier bags! [disgust]

changilass
30-Nov-08, 01:48
Mother reported someone wrongly parking in the disabled spots in Asda (funnily enough that was Lancaster too) and was told that they wouldnt do anyhing about it as staff had been attacked in the past, so looks like they will stick with hiding the carriers wifie.

wifie
30-Nov-08, 01:52
Mother reported someone wrongly parking in the disabled spots in Asda (funnily enough that was Lancaster too) and was told that they wouldnt do anyhing about it as staff had been attacked in the past, so looks like they will stick with hiding the carriers wifie.

Blooming shameful! [disgust]

mm1ii2aa3
30-Nov-08, 03:50
Bekisman:

in my opinion, you should really try to explain by writing letter, i think they will withdrawn the ticket. good luck

brokencross
30-Nov-08, 09:54
There have always been HUGE misunderstandings about what the Badge entitles the holder to do.

You are not kidding. Here some people think the Blue Badge is a licence to abandon their car at the point nearest to where they want to go....no matter what obstruction it causes..or what safety implications for other road users.

I have a Blue Badge and object strongly to those disabled drivers who abuse their use....

bekisman
30-Nov-08, 10:09
joesoap: "Or, perhaps, the training to be a traffic warden in the English county of Lancashire does not include any lessons in Scottish law? "
Eh? I think most if not all know HIGHLANDS a'int in Lancs -

"Heaven forbid we should expect the individuals to take any kind of responsibility for reading and remembering a leaflet they received with their blue badge" And I presume you read everything? my basic premise which you unfortunately fail to comprehend is that I have parked in Scotland without using a 'clock' since I was disabled, and that because of a one-off incident of not displaying a non-existant clock I am threated with a £70 fine, I know that Traffic Wardens are able to use their discretion and yes, my description of this particular TW was un-called for, it was my pure gut-reaction of having (I honestly presumed) undertaken and carried out the correct rules. I found, after sweating and struggling to get back to the car I had received a PCN for £70.. OK you seem to think that I was totally in the wrong for not perusing the various regulations but it was an honest mistake. I have in the interim discovered a number of cases where folk in exactly my own situation had their PCN cancelled. Right this minute I am endevouring to discover their names and addresses and sternly inform them they should have 'read and remembered a leaflet they received with their blue badge'..
I won't go down the road of try being a cripple yourself and see it from 'their' side, let it be said it a'int fun.
Thanks to the many others on this thread who have a more cosmopolitian and understanding view, and yes I will appeal - incidentally at ASDA in Preston there is a £60 wheel clamping chage for parking in the disabled bays (no mention of clock) this is carried out by a private company.

Bad Manners
30-Nov-08, 10:25
I have sat and read all the comments thus far and can see points for both sides. I am a disabled person and walking causes great pain but that is something I have to live with 24-7. I have a blue badge and am greatful for it and the majority of occasions has saved me many long walking trips.
There are limitations to where you can use it and for how long We are lucky that in Scotland we can park for an indefinate time. Whilst in England the time slot is limited this is also ok at least I can park to doe what every I have to within the time span. Those car parks that charge disabled drivers are only making a living they provide spaces for disabled drivers near the exits and that is a great help.
In my opinion every authority has done something to help people like me and for that they have to be thanked. I dont want anything for nothing just a little consideration for people who are in my position
We all have differant natures most of us have a good sense of humour but we do not find it funny when someone who does not have the blue badge takes up a space that is set aside for people in our situation.
Many of us would give up the blue badge if we could trade it in for better health or the ability to walk pain free.
The above is my opinion and may not be the opinion of everyone I would gladly swap with anyone for a day to see it from my side any offers?

brokencross
30-Nov-08, 10:48
"Heaven forbid we should expect the individuals to take any kind of responsibility for reading and remembering a leaflet they received with their blue badge" And I presume you read everything? ...............I won't go down the road of try being a cripple yourself and see it from 'their' side, let it be said it a'int fun.

There is no point in taking your anger and angst out on people who are purely pointing out salient facts. I wasn't suggesting you learn it verbatim, I was only indicating where the info was to be found.

The information leaflet is issued with the badge to cover all the anomalies of its use and to enable users to use the badge in the manner it was intended.
I do happen to read things, but do not necessarily retain all the information. I did not know about Scotland not having clocks and no parking time limit for disabled because at this time it is not relevant to me.

I may well have another read of the said leaflet to refresh my memory.

I wish you luck, as many others have said you made a genuine mistake which hurt no-one and a well worded appeal should be successful.

I can concur with the last statement in the quote, I have been disabled (not a cripple) for nigh on 15 years now and am well aware of every downside, but thanks for the reminder anyway.

binbob
30-Nov-08, 11:09
Its not the first time you have jumped to the wrong conclusion when a poster is introducing a bit of humour to a thread.

I would find it hard to believe that anyone would have taken TBH's post serious or been offended by it.


then u are like him....i do not think it was funny or meant to be funny.[disgust]

binbob
30-Nov-08, 11:10
maybe it would have paid to look into the different laws that the dark side, englund, live by.
englund?????

brokencross
30-Nov-08, 11:20
englund?????

Should be Ingerlund as in the football chant:)

JoeSoap
30-Nov-08, 15:45
I won't go down the road of try being a cripple yourself and see it from 'their' side, let it be said it a'int fun.
I like to think that I have enough empathy to be able to imagine how difficult it can be for you at times without actually being disabled myself, just as I can imagine how horrible it must be for traffic wardens to be on the receiving end of regular abuse from the public just for doing their jobs without having to do that job myself.

Whilst asking others to walk a mile in your shoes, perhaps you could consider what it would be like to try theirs on for a while?


OK you seem to think that I was totally in the wrong
It might surprise you to know that whilst I do think the fault here is yours, I am not unsympathetic to your situation. We all make mistakes and £35 is a heavy price to pay for not reading a leaflet.

Had you started this thread accepting responsibility for an honest mistake and asking for advice on an appeal I'd have wished you the best of luck. Instead you flew into a rage and pointed a nasty finger of blame anywhere but inwards. You still seem unable to accept that you are a grown man who is responsible for his own actions.

bekisman
01-Dec-08, 10:30
JoeSoap:
1. Heaven forbid we should expect the individuals to take any kind of responsibility for reading and remembering a leaflet they received with their blue badge
2. You seem unable to accept that you are a grown man who is responsible for his own actions.

"Take any responsibility"? "grown man"? Oh gosh Joe I bow to your superior interlect, you are obviously into Kant.. nah not really just a bit of a burbler who've I've come accross many many times in my interesting life..[lol]

The macs
01-Dec-08, 13:06
Go to the Highland Council service point, and they will arrange for you to get a clock, for use in England.

JoeSoap
01-Dec-08, 14:54
...just a bit of a burbler who've I've come accross many many times in my interesting life..
Personally, if I found that "many, many" people were questioning why I don't take responsibility for my own actions it might make me wonder if perhaps they had a point.

However, I'm really not surprised to see that your instinct is to attack the "many, many" people questioning you rather than consider the questions they are asking.

bekisman
01-Dec-08, 16:32
just a quick one; thanks to the many, many who recommended I appeal: it's gone off today, will keep you posted

wifie
01-Dec-08, 16:33
just a quick one; thanks to the many, many who recommended I appeal: it's gone off today, will keep you posted

Glad to hear it - good luck! (If that is the right phrase!)

Thursolass
01-Dec-08, 19:39
Sorry, don't mean to add fuel to this fire, or change the subject, but you are wrong Joesoap. You said:-
"Let's put it another way... In America it is legal to turn right on a red light. If an American were visiting this country and did the same should they be reprimanded/fined by the authorities for dangerous and illegal driving?

If you think they should, how would you feel if they then told you that it was a disgrace and they should have been allowed to drive that way because that's how they drive in the States and there were no signs on the lights to tell them that red meant stop even when turning right???

Not true, you can only do a "Right on red" as we call it when you have, wait for it..............A sign! Try turning right on a red light without that sign and you get a ticket.

Goldie
01-Dec-08, 21:40
just a quick one; thanks to the many, many who recommended I appeal: it's gone off today, will keep you posted


Well done bekisman - I hope you get the appeal - just a note - don't panic if they send out another demand - they did to us - the first appeal letter, so they say got lost in the post!! - we did pay for registered but hey ho! - we sent out another letter and the appeal came through.

Good Luck


Just a note to some of the comments on the board - we were told by the issuing office that the Traffic Warden who issued the ticket to us knew that Blue Badge Holders in Scotland didn't have a clock and was instructed to give a warning first - we were parked and recorded for 15 mins - the parking time limit was 3 hours - before we parked there we pulled along side the Traffic Warden in question and said we were not from the area and asked him where we were able to park. He siad we could park anywhere along the road with no mention of a clock - and yes we will know next time.

Moira
01-Dec-08, 22:14
I like to think that I have enough empathy to be able to imagine how difficult it can be for you at times without actually being disabled myself, ..............


JoeSoap:
1. Heaven forbid we should expect the individuals to take any kind of responsibility for reading and remembering a leaflet they received with their blue badge
2. You seem unable to accept that you are a grown man who is responsible for his own actions.

"Take any responsibility"? "grown man"? Oh gosh Joe I bow to your superior interlect.............

For Goodness Sake boys, grow up! You're turning an interesting thread into a playground scrap and I, for one, would like to bang your heads together. :roll:

No doubt someone will be along soon to tell me just how in-Politically Correct I am.

TBH
01-Dec-08, 22:45
i do not think it was funny or meant to be funny.[disgust]You can think what you like, it doesn't mean you are right but I am sure there are people that are glad that you are getting indignant on their behalf

englund?????Sorry, I did indeed mean Ingerlund. Kudos to Brokencross for the correct terminology.

bekisman
02-Dec-08, 10:30
Moira, there's no need to worry, Joe & I have similiar thoughts (we're both atheists!) and this is just a harmless bit of banter..

JoeSoap
02-Dec-08, 11:43
Not true, you can only do a "Right on red" as we call it when you have, wait for it..............A sign! Try turning right on a red light without that sign and you get a ticket.
Good job I don't drive in the US then or I'd have gotten me a ticket! [lol]

Thanks for the correction - you learn something new every day.

JoeSoap
02-Dec-08, 11:46
Moira, there's no need to worry, Joe & I have similiar thoughts (we're both atheists!) and this is just a harmless bit of banter..
Quite so :D

binbob
02-Dec-08, 13:18
my friends disabled sister has visited her in staffs.many times...used her blue badge then,has no clock and NEVER had a problem.

this is over 20 years of visiting from scotland.........so i think u were unlucky.

but best to get a clock and play by the silly rules .:roll:

catran
02-Dec-08, 23:07
What an interesting subject. If one is disabled how on earth can they drive all the way to England? I thought the badges enabled disabled to manage to get their shopping and go to the drs locally and all that and maybe even allow them to get to work when they cannot use public transport.

I am ignorant about all this and what is meant by the tax disc????

mm1ii2aa3
02-Dec-08, 23:39
I don't feel particularly sad at the moment but thanks for the adjective. Please explain why you think I am sick?:roll:
i think we are all here showing our kindness and surpots for the other people!

Aaldtimer
03-Dec-08, 04:13
What an interesting subject. If one is disabled how on earth can they drive all the way to England? I thought the badges enabled disabled to manage to get their shopping and go to the drs locally and all that and maybe even allow them to get to work when they cannot use public transport.

I am ignorant about all this and what is meant by the tax disc????

The disabled person doesn't have to be the driver!

I take it you're not a driver yourself if you don't know what a "tax disc" is?

brokencross
03-Dec-08, 08:07
I am ignorant about all this and what is meant by the tax disc????

Certain categories of disabled drivers (but not all Blue Badge holders) are exempt from paying car tax as the car is a necessity and a lifeline to their mobility. The tax disc shows this exemption.

dessie
03-Dec-08, 09:16
bekisman..just appeal the fine ..you should be ok..

bekisman
03-Dec-08, 09:37
catran; "What an interesting subject. If one is disabled how on earth can they drive all the way to England? I thought the badges enabled disabled to manage to get their shopping and go to the drs locally and all that and maybe even allow them to get to work when they cannot use public transport. I am ignorant about all this and what is meant by the tax disc???? "

Most of this has been answered above, but it's directed at me (I live in Scotland and came by car to Lancashire) I'll answer, A high percentage of disabled drivers cannot drive, so they are unable to go on holiday outside the distance of the local Drs etc and have to sit at home and twiddle their fingers. No, of course not! My wife is the registered keeper and drives me, and yes it is often quite far, although she DOES drives me to the Drs too!..
If the disabled person is badly disabled they also get their road tax paid too! sometimes I think it's really worth getting disabled for all these perks (not)..
Never mind I expect you understand more now..

Moira
03-Dec-08, 20:41
Moira, there's no need to worry, Joe & I have similiar thoughts (we're both atheists!) and this is just a harmless bit of banter..


Quite so

Glad to hear that you both agree on some things :D

Not so sure about the atheist thing but that is another thread ;)

catran
04-Dec-08, 22:54
Thanks Bekisman for letting me know about the driving and the tax disc for disabled drivers Fortuntely I have had no previous knowledge of getting a mobility thing for the tax or anything like that.I did know that disabled people got a moblty allowance but was unaware of the tax disc.

Being an able bodied driver myself, driving fairly long journeys on occassions which I find very tiring with all the trffic, roadworks ect., I did wonder how a disabled driver could drive all that way. I did not know that one could have a driver nominated . Thanks for enlightening me on this subject and many more happy outings and hope you get your fine reimbursed.

bekisman
05-Dec-08, 10:20
Hi Catran
Thanks for that. Like you, previous to being injured I had no idea of what disabled drivers were or how it worked, I honestly thought that with a Blue Card (Orange, years ago) a disabled driver could park where they liked with no problem whatsoever.. My own recent clash with the warden of parking in a proper disabled bay in a car park with my 'disabled tax disc' as well as my blue badge would have obviously sufficed, but no, I missed displaying a clock I did not have - and may have a £70 fine to pay - so the regulations ARE very strict..

Hopefully hear result of my appeal sometime soon..

brokencross
05-Dec-08, 10:57
so the regulations ARE very strict....

I only wish they were as strict on the totally selfish able bodied persons who insist on using disabled bays as their personal space. I do realise all disabilities are not visible, eg serious heart/lung conditions etc so you can't judge by a cursory glance.

However, at our local shopping centre there is a bank of disabled bays which are adjacent to a fitness centre and I would regularly see the same man park up in the disabled bay, get his sports bag out of the boot and quite happily run up to the fitness centre. If caught his fine would be around £70, but he knows the centre is not patrolled by wardens so takes the chance.

If I willfully abuse the use of my Blue Badge I am liable of a fine of up to £1000 so I would like to see that amount of fine levied on these ignorant selfish drivers who park in disabled bays; it would make them think twice and cure their severe laziness.

bekisman
05-Dec-08, 17:18
Just had the results of my appeal;
"Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice. The PCN was issued as the vehicle was parked in a Disabled Bay. Although your Blue Badge was displayed, a clock disc was missing.
However, having looked into the issues raised, we are pleased to confirm that on this occasion we have accepted your explanation and have cancelled the PCN"

Great! common sense prevails.. many thanks to the many folks above who wished me luck - also quite impressed that Fylde Borough Council came back so quickly..
I'm now useing a borrowed clock everywhere!

Aaldtimer
05-Dec-08, 17:24
Great result Bekisman...as they say - "Nae herm in asking!" :lol:

Kodiak
05-Dec-08, 17:44
Well done you, a Good result indeed. Just remember to take your Tick Tock with you the next time you go South of the Border. :D

brokencross
05-Dec-08, 18:03
Just had the results of my appeal;
on this occasion we have accepted your explanation and have cancelled the PCN"

Nice one, are you going to acknowledge and thank them?

poppett
05-Dec-08, 19:01
Good result.

It always pays to ask and if your request if refused you can always ask why not.

If you contact Alness where blue badges are issued they will send you out a clock by return of post to keep in the car so you won`t be stuck again.

Bad Manners
05-Dec-08, 19:11
Excellent result it would appear they have acted quickly and at least you now know about the clock for down south. Hope you have many more trouble free trips

wonbat
05-Dec-08, 19:41
Maybe it would have paid to look into the different laws that the dark side, Englund, live by.


One has one Chip on ones sholder has one?

TBH
05-Dec-08, 21:16
One has one Chip on ones sholder has one?One has, has one? I much prefer to have my chips on a plate.

Goldie
05-Dec-08, 22:34
we are pleased to confirm that on this occasion we have accepted your explanation and have cancelled the PCN"



GREAT very pleased for you and such a quick response. :D

_Ju_
06-Dec-08, 10:13
Sorry but when in Rome and all that.

May seem a bitty harsh, but Scotland and England have different rules on a number of things, and its up to us to work out what we can and can't do, just the same as it would be if we were going abroad.


The point is: It isn't abroad. It's the SAME country. It isn't harsh: It's RIDICULOUS! Comon sense flew out over the cuckoo's nest long ago! In my line of work we "play" spot the ("cosmetic") difference between the various legislations. But the fundemental law is all the same, as it is in this situation.

bekisman
06-Dec-08, 10:34
Thanks for that _ju_..
"However, having looked into the issues raised, we are pleased to confirm that on this occasion we have accepted your explanation and have cancelled the PCN" the 'however we have looked into the issues raised" kind of answers a number of posters in that if 'they' the Authorities, can obviously see that this was purely an oversight and not 'a visit to Rome' it gives hope that there are sensible people around..

I was especially pleased as I am still in England and have a redirection on our mail, so the appeal (although initiated via my son's PC) was answered by letter by it going up to Scotland and back down again.
I've emailed and thanked the Parking Authority for their understanding - so that's all right.
Incidentally I seem to have had a couple of PM's which I were notified were there but was unable to open them - my son's PC is set up in what I can only describe as 'Weird' - he's an IT manager and has his strange ways.. so apologies if I've not replied...

wifie
08-Dec-08, 03:36
Delighted wi yer news! All's well and all that! :D Good thread for learning stuff too! Ty!

TBH
08-Dec-08, 03:49
The point is: It isn't abroad. It's the SAME country. It isn't harsh: It's RIDICULOUS! Comon sense flew out over the cuckoo's nest long ago! In my line of work we "play" spot the ("cosmetic") difference between the various legislations. But the fundemental law is all the same, as it is in this situation.Scotland and England are different countries.

_Ju_
08-Dec-08, 08:22
Scotland and England are different countries.

Historically.

Currently (wether you like it or not) they are rolled into one, along w/ N. Ireland and Wales.It's called United Kingdom. Look it up.