View Full Version : There's probably no God?
The humanist association are running a campaign by advertising on the sides of London buses that there's probably no God.
Apparently it's a counter measure to a recent campaign run by a number of Christian churches to increase their membership by running a weekly course explaining what it means to be a Christian. It's callled the Alpha course.
Is this a childish tit for tat spat or is there a need for people to question the existance of a supernatural God and if so can they ever come up with a satisfactory answer?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/21/religion-advertising
Theologian's and atheist's will argue this until mankind ceases to exist. It can never be proven one way or the other. A pointless argument because neither side will admit defeat.
Metalattakk
15-Nov-08, 13:29
Maybe so, but the Humanist Association's plan is to try to 'save' as many people from organised religion as possible. This, in my view, cannot be a bad thing.
As Humans we have the ability to think for ouselves we all have the right to question anything that other people want us to take on faith, specially if there is no real proof.
Religion is a very emotive subject and for every person who believes there is a God there will be another equally certain that there is not.
So this even if this particular campaign might seem a bit childish to some, I believe that everyone has a right to express their own opinion and if certain people wish to spend their money with Advertisements like this one on the side of London Busses, then that is their right.
But there will never be a satisfactory answer to the question :-
"Is there a God"
And so the debate will go on and on and on and on .....................................
I'm an atheist and I pray to God I stay that way. :D
We had a humanist ceremony for my daughter's wedding and my husband's funeral, and my son's wedding next year will be a humanist ceremony as well.
As none of the parties involved had/has a belief in a creator God, it would have been felt strange and hypocritical to have any kind of religious ceremony. This didn't mean that we were shouting that there was no God, since as a family we feel varying degrees of doubt and non-belief and have no desire to impose our views on anybody else.
We know that many friends attending did hold Christian or other religious beliefs. The humanist ceremonies, which concentrated on the value and meaning of each human life as it is lived out on this earth, didn't seem to offend anybody, though I expect some of the folk attending might have liked something different and more in tune with their own beliefs.
silverfox57
15-Nov-08, 13:59
I'm an atheist and I pray to God I stay that way. :D
just come to wards the light ,your sins will be forgiven:lol:
brokencross
15-Nov-08, 14:04
Other religions besides Christianity believe in God but just have a different name for the focus of their belief.
Some of the more devout religions may take very unkindly to this assertion of there is probably not a God.
before 'e concept o' christianity an previous likewise religions came aboot, man lookin for deity used 'e only resources available til them - their environment.
they studied 'e oceans an 'e moon, 'e sun an' 'e seasons, an they studied 'e ever changin night sky.
they collected an recorded data over thousands o' years. they made up 'e zodiac and 'e movement o' all the planets is our solar system.
'e information wis turned intil songs, stories an' chants, some that are still wi us aday! alot o' mythology is based on astrological fact.
for example 'e whole story aboot jesus/horice/etc (whichever period in time ye choose) 3 kings, followin 'e star, 12 diciples, crusified on a cross, resurrected after 3 days, its all astrologically related.
i doubt whether there was ever a man called jesus in 'e first place.
christianity is basicaly a new religion based on old religions, which came from ancient fables, that wis made up for entertainment.
i may hev gone off track here....but 'e son o' god that they speak aboot wis actually 'e sun!
god til me is mother nature...no some jewish guys faither :roll:
just come to wards the light ,your sins will be forgiven:lol:
'ats 'e lite o' 'e pub on a cowld, cowld nicht ;)
Atheism is a non prophet organisation....
mankind trys to play God, but personally I just believe in myself and the health of family + friends.
Religions the deadliest superweapon and will be "in fact is" the planets downfall.
percy toboggan
15-Nov-08, 14:37
I think on the balance of probabilities there probably is no 'God'
I do not object to posters on buses and elsewhere proclaiming this fact for atheists have a right to be heard.
Nobody can be sure though can they? Otherwise faith would not exist as a religious concept...it would become certainty...no bad thing perhaps. I feel if there really were a God of certainty ...to 'fear' and a surefire day of reckoning then the World might be a safer place, if not necessarily a happier one. Perhaps the first thing we could away with in the certainty of a God would be hierarchical religion.
In closing...God..if you see this then please show yourself - do us all a favour.
The concept of God is completely ridiculous, it's as believable as little green from Mars, although there would seem to be more proof of interstellar visitations than some supreme deity, it's all a bloomin nonsense.
There's probably no God?
What do you mean probably, there is no god!
In closing...God..if you see this then please show yourself - do us all a favour.
I dunno what to make of it. The humanists are just as bad as the people whose beliefs they scorn. If I had to stand on one side or the other, I would stand in ther middle. :confused
I'm not sure what causes the conflicts when men (mostly) insist on sharing their world view with anyone who will listen. Its caused more problems in the world than sex.
Its easy to dress that conflict up as religion when in actual fact its always the religious who cause the problems.
It shouldnt matter whether there's a God or not. I agree though that if there is a God he needs to come clean quick.
brokencross
15-Nov-08, 16:22
What do you mean probably, there is no god!
And your proof is........
And your proof is........
How about some proof that there is?
Sapphire2803
15-Nov-08, 17:14
Theologian's and atheist's will argue this until mankind ceases to exist. It can never be proven one way or the other. A pointless argument because neither side will admit defeat.
^^^^ What he said :D
Well you can't advertise cigarettes and tobacco on busses because they're bad for you so I don't think they should be advertising religion either.
Same goes for atheists stirring stuff up. I wish religion/nonreligion could remain a private individual matter. States certainly shouldn't be meddling with organised religion.
I agree with Trix. Been reading loads of stuff on the subject and just starting to follow my path ;)
And your proof is........
That's just my opinion as a devout Athiest
alistair harper
15-Nov-08, 18:37
How about some proof that there is?
if you had proof would this change things probly not because we would all be asking for stupid things. For all the disbeleavers how many people have said god help me when they are lost or in trouble how many of us have blamed god and said where were you when my loved one was ill and died. why dont you all tell your kids that santa does not exist, i will tell you why because we all need something to beleave in, yes we dont want it shoved down our throats but we all have free will we do or dont. It can never be proven untill we die will we see a bright light does it exist who knows, the loch ness monster does it exist who knows even if we saw it would we beleave it probly not.
And so the debate will go on and on and on and on .................................................. .................................................. ..................
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northener
15-Nov-08, 19:02
just come to wards the light ,your sins will be forgiven:lol:
Last time I went towards the light, I had misjudged a bend on the A9 and the lights were on a Stevens wagon:eek:
helenwyler
15-Nov-08, 19:18
just come to wards the light ,your sins will be forgiven:lol:
No, no SF! Always have the light behind you. Especially when looking in the mirror...it really does cover a multitude of sins. ;)
Last time I went towards the light, I had misjudged a bend on the A9 and the lights were on a Stevens wagon:eek:
Yup. 10 years or so ago my daughter and I were driving along the dunes between Dunnet and Castletown and the blasted mothership followed us all the way. Still haven't figured it out. My depth vision was OK back then too.
oldmarine
15-Nov-08, 21:02
The humanist association are running a campaign by advertising on the sides of London buses that there's probably no God.
Apparently it's a counter measure to a recent campaign run by a number of Christian churches to increase their membership by running a weekly course explaining what it means to be a Christian. It's callled the Alpha course.
Is this a childish tit for tat spat or is there a need for people to question the existance of a supernatural God and if so can they ever come up with a satisfactory answer?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/21/religion-advertising
People will believe what they want to believe. As for me after surviving the horrors of WW2 and an incoming mortar shell that took my buddy next to me but spared me, I remembered my religious training as a youth and immediately turned back to God. I still believe I was spared to marry, raise a family and to see my grandchildren and great grandchildren. I would never criitcise anyone for their choices, but then I expect the same in return.
fingalmacool
15-Nov-08, 22:01
Just a few thing to consider should you be in any doubt about this thread.
Jesus Saves,,Moses invests,,but only Buddha pays dividends.
Jesus Saves,,Darwin survives.
Jesus Saves,,But the Mongol Hordes.
Death is life's answer to the question why, and reincarnation is a pleasant surprise, and always remember that sudden prayers make god jump. So where does this leave us, will the meek inherit the earth, only if its ok with the rest of you?
Here endith the sermon:confused
I believe that Gods or Deities have existed from the day man felt there had to be more to life than just death. They have been there from the time that man communed individually with the Gods until now where there is organised religion.
That does not prove or disprove there is a God or are Gods.
Believing in God is a matter of faith and who and what you have faith in.
I have only ever met 2 people I have genuinely believed they believed.
What is the difference between a Saint who claimed to talk to God and people today who say the same? Today they are sent to a psychiatrist.
Some of the Worlds worst evils have been done in the name of Religion (any creed) as is seen in the Nigeria@s witch children..All in the name of religion. (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=61439) thread. But that is another Topic.
Honestly I don't know and if people really thought about it they would probably say the same.
Welcomefamily
16-Nov-08, 00:18
I am a firm believer that every one has a right to believe what they want and I am also of the view that the so called "humanistic" viewpoint and its influence has led our society to become so liberal that we have become a society out of control. We live in a sick society that allows the wrong doer great advantage than those who have been the subject of the crime. Just watch the TV
God is some thing personal and finding his influence in your life is a personal thing. Having reflected about this issue for many years from every possible angle, I would not say he does not exist as there are too many personal accounts of his influence in peoples lives, perhaps in a individuals own experience he might not exist.
can i just say,i think the word "god"is just another word for hope,man wrote the big book,just like stephen king and many other authors,we do have a great imagination,but some people really need to hold on to hope there could be nothing else for them,so each to there own,i will stick to stephen king,more believeable.
Why does anyone wish to disprove his existence. Personaly, It's no skin off my nose what people wish to believe in as long as they are harming no-one else then these humanists should just get on with their own lives and allow the same privilege to others.
Why does anyone wish to disprove his existence. Personaly, It's no skin off my nose what people wish to believe in as long as they are harming no-one else then these humanists should just get on with their own lives and allow the same privilege to others.
harm ye none, do as ye will ;)
omg, i just went to the humanist website to see what all the crack is about them, never really knew much, and im always open to learn more..
but im shocked! i have no problem with anyone being atheist, that is everyones choice what they belive. but this seems like an anti-faith cult!
they dont want religion anywhere! they dont want ANYONE to belive in God!
and have an active campaign to try and make that happen!
that is so wrong on so many levels!
they have a campaign to try and stop people of faith from working in schools, are trying to stop faith schools all together, we are not talking Hey lets not have religion in public school, but lets get rid of schools that are faith based all together no matter what people may wish to teach their children. while at the same time patting themselves on the back for winning a court case on discrimination of a christian group that started discriminating against non-christian staff.
this is what they say they are on thier website
Humanism
Humanism is the belief that we can live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs. Humanists make sense of the world using reason, experience and shared human values. We seek to make the best of the one life we have by creating meaning and purpose for ourselves. We take responsibility for our actions and work with others for the common good.
What humanists believe
Humanism is an approach to life based on humanity and reason - humanists recognise that moral values are properly founded on human nature and experience alone. Our decisions are based on the available evidence and our assessment of the outcomes of our actions, not on any dogma or sacred text.
Humanism encompasses atheism and agnosticism ‑ but is an active and ethical philosophy far greater than these negative responses to religion.
Humanists believe in individual rights and freedoms ‑ but believe that individual responsibility, social cooperation and mutual respect are just as important.
Humanists believe that people can and will continue to find solutions to the world's problems ‑ so that quality of life can be improved for everyone.
Humanists are positive ‑ gaining inspiration from our lives, art and culture, and a rich natural world.
Humanists believe that we have only one life ‑ it is our responsibility to make it a good life, and to live it to the full.
but if they belive in individuals rights and freedoms, why dont they want the individual to have the right to belive what they like? well they can as long as they dont belive in anything?
and if they are positive why are they so negitive in their outlook towards faith in any shape form or fashion..
reading the website is freaky... starting to wonder if they have a compound somewhere..
i was on the KKK website the other day after reading an article on the news about it, and even though its suppose to be a "christian thing (yeah right in thier deluded little minds) their oppresive outlook was similarly scary in a lot of ways to the humanist with their intolerance of anything out side their way of thinking.
scary huh?
I believe that there is something which we may never understand until it is time,but I cant prove it unless I Pop my clogs and then post from beyond the grave! do they have wi-fi in heaven?:lol:
I believe that there is something which we may never understand until it is time,but I cant prove it unless I Pop my clogs and then post from beyond the grave! do they have wi-fi in heaven?:lol:
What makes you think you're going on the Stairway To Heaven?...most probably the good ole Highway To Hell for you :lol:
What makes you think you're going on the Stairway To Heaven?...most probably the good ole Highway To Hell for you :lol:
No Highway to hell for me, I am definitely going up the way.I know this is true because David Icke told me so in a dream! [lol]
Either that or i'll change my religion attach some explosives to me and woo hoo loads of lovely ladies waiting for me at the pearly gates!:lol:
Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
--Benjamin Franklin.
I have huge sympathy for the insomniac, dyslexic, agnostic who lies awake all night trying to work out if there a dog!
Welcomefamily
16-Nov-08, 12:49
Its is a bit of an extremist quaker type group and not to be mixed up with humanistic psychology which many people do. By giving a prisoner equality will we get human change, ask his victim.
Humanists believe the soundest moral and ethical judgments are those based on rational humanist principles similar to quakers.
For this reason we strive to ensure a non-religious viewpoint is presented wherever moral or ethical matters are taught or discussed.
http://www.cumbria-humanists.org.uk/CHG/Report%20Quakers%2016%20April%2008.pdf
To quote Hamlet,
“There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”
they dont want religion anywhere! they dont want ANYONE to belive in God!
and have an active campaign to try and make that happen!
that is so wrong on so many levels!
You’re right, it is wrong. The first (and most important) level of wrongness being that what you say really is not true!
they have a campaign to try and stop people of faith from working in schools
No, they really don’t.
but if they belive in individuals rights and freedoms, why dont they want the individual to have the right to belive what they like?
Umm… I’m really struggling to find the page on their site where they express a desire to curtail an individual’s right to believe in God.
i was on the KKK website the other day […] their oppresive outlook was similarly scary in a lot of ways to the humanist with their intolerance of anything out side their way of thinking.
scary huh?
What? That your quick scan of the BHA website led you to equate them to the Klan? Yes, that really is quite scary. I wonder if there's an equivalent to Godwin's Law for the KKK? [disgust]
For anybody interested in seeing just how distorted Brandy's critique was for themselves (i.e. look at the evidence rather than take it on faith ;)) can find the BHA's website here (http://www.humanism.org.uk).
taken from thier web site....
Campaign Against Faith Schools
You can now donate online direct to our campaign against faith schools. We need to raise £30,000 to continue employing our dedicated campaigner for twelve months. Our campaigner will make sure that the voice of UK citizens who oppose faith schools is represented in the most powerful way. To do this our campaigner helps to stimulate and organise local campaigns against new faith schools and lobby government and parliament to reform the laws that allow state funded schools to discriminate in their employment and admissions and to teach unbalanced curricula of religious education.
so they dont want to stop faith schools?
and they dont want to stop people of faith working in state funded schools?
am i reading that totally wrong then? if i am im sorry.. but thats how i read it.
the whole point about the kkk was not that they burn crosses and do hate crimes.. more the single minded we are the good and rightious ones.. you are absolutly out of your mind for beliving in God, how can you be so stupid, and if you are not with us your against us mentality.
hey its ok to be an atheist but dont shove your atheism down my throat...
ive heard it so many times with the view of christianity as the subject.
when i find that non belivers are much harsher in trying to force people to drop their beliefs, and faith in the face of thier reason.
has anyone on here ever been told by me, what they belive is wrong? that they are gonna burn because they dont think like me?
nope nadda. .
but i have been told many many times how stupid i am for beliving in God, how im brain washing my children, how its basically child abuse and conditioning.. to force them to belive in God. as they have no defence against it.
i am a great beliver in God, and will always be,
i cant help what others belive, and i wont ever say they are wrong for their beliefs.
however i will say that i found the website to be very harsh and angry.
and neg. even though they were trying to put a pos. spin on it.. but hey thats just my opinion.. and like armpits everyone has one.. and most two!
Thats the problem with beliefs and non beliefs. There's no leeway.
I have spiritual beliefs but is there a God? Suffer little children, come unto me- haven't we as the children suffered long enough?
tell that to the events of the past week with the wee soul in Haringey gosh if only
Metalattakk
18-Nov-08, 03:54
taken from thier web site....
Campaign Against Faith Schools
You can now donate online direct to our campaign against faith schools. We need to raise £30,000 to continue employing our dedicated campaigner for twelve months. Our campaigner will make sure that the voice of UK citizens who oppose faith schools is represented in the most powerful way. To do this our campaigner helps to stimulate and organise local campaigns against new faith schools and lobby government and parliament to reform the laws that allow state funded schools to discriminate in their employment and admissions and to teach unbalanced curricula of religious education.
so they dont want to stop faith schools?
and they dont want to stop people of faith working in state funded schools?
am i reading that totally wrong then? if i am im sorry.. but thats how i read it.
the whole point about the kkk was not that they burn crosses and do hate crimes.. more the single minded we are the good and rightious ones.. you are absolutly out of your mind for beliving in God, how can you be so stupid, and if you are not with us your against us mentality.
hey its ok to be an atheist but dont shove your atheism down my throat...
ive heard it so many times with the view of christianity as the subject.
when i find that non belivers are much harsher in trying to force people to drop their beliefs, and faith in the face of thier reason.
has anyone on here ever been told by me, what they belive is wrong? that they are gonna burn because they dont think like me?
nope nadda. .
but i have been told many many times how stupid i am for beliving in God, how im brain washing my children, how its basically child abuse and conditioning.. to force them to belive in God. as they have no defence against it.
i am a great beliver in God, and will always be,
i cant help what others belive, and i wont ever say they are wrong for their beliefs.
however i will say that i found the website to be very harsh and angry.
and neg. even though they were trying to put a pos. spin on it.. but hey thats just my opinion.. and like armpits everyone has one.. and most two!
Do you really force your children to believe in God?
You come across as quite the religious zealot. Please let your children make their own mind up, when they are old enough to do so. Or do you not trust them to be able to do so?
hmm never been called a religious zealot before.. but ok
nope dont force my children to belive in God, how do you force someone to belive something?
they are only 5 and 4.
but i am teaching tehm about God
when they are old enough to make up thier own minds, and if they decided that they
dont want to belive in God, then that is their choice. it will hurt but i wont love them any less. i will still love and cherish them.
i think their is very little that they could ever do that would make me turn my back on them.
gonna go off and google zealot to see eaxtly what it means.. im interested now *Grins*
but basically i have a deep abiding faith in God. I love God and God is with me everyday.
i dont go to church everyday, i dont stand on street corners.
i dont hate anyone, i really dont dislike anyone to tell you the truth.
im very protective over my family and loved ones.
im loyal and have a very wacky sense of humor.
to tell you the truth i dont even follow the traditions of the church, in a lot of ways.
i believe what i believe and let others do the same..
when i get my back up i get really defensive.
i think its a human thing..
but all in all im just me.
so i am what i am... if that makes sense and if that makes me a zealot well im a zealot *G*
ok wow.. def. not a zealot.. just looked that one up to double check the meaning.
im not violent at all.. nor a jew *Winks*
but nahhh not so much on the join us or die thing.
i would really rather make love not war.
but seriously, cant say ive ever been intolerant of other religions and beliefs.
i am intolerant of others telling me how to believe and what to do. so do get antsy on that one.
for one thing, my personal beliefs would prob. get me thrown straight to the firey pits by a lot of old fashioned believers.
ahh well you can only please some of the poeple some of the time and none of the people all the time.
Metalattakk
18-Nov-08, 13:30
ok wow.. def. not a zealot.. just looked that one up to double check the meaning.
im not violent at all.. nor a jew *Winks*
but nahhh not so much on the join us or die thing.
Think maybe you should triple check the meaning. ;)
but seriously, cant say ive ever been intolerant of other religions and beliefs.
So you'll be teaching your children about other religions too?
i am intolerant of others telling me how to believe and what to do.
Don't you think your children will feel the same?
Birdie Wife
18-Nov-08, 13:41
To those who believe there is no God, the faith of others probably seems foolish at best, deranged at worst. To those who have faith in God, He is a very real and powerful guide in life. I don't want to be someone who has to apologise for my faith, because I truly think that if everyone had access to the same information and experiences that I have had, they would find it very difficult to argue against. God is all about changing hearts and minds with love, peace and gentleness so that we can live rightly with our neighbours. What is bad about that?
Religion is what you make of it. I Imagine religion as a car, if you put fuel into it ,it will run as long as it is fuelled.If you put nothing in the tank then your car will go nowhere and will always be parked outside your door.
It is up to the individual person if they wish to "fuel their car" or if they wish to merely park it and wait to see what happens!
I practice my own religion and have no problem with others practicing theirs and even those that dont practice anything at all!:lol:
My religion can be found every second saturday at the church of Ibrox(sermon starts at 3pm unless we play on gods day then we will be on Setanta!!!!!!!)[lol]
Thats a joke before the brigade jump on it!
AfternoonDelight
18-Nov-08, 15:29
I have huge sympathy for the insomniac, dyslexic, agnostic who lies awake all night trying to work out if there a dog!
[lol][lol][lol]...............................
I assume the humanists and atheists won't be celebrating Christmas??
The overwhelming majority of organised religion has a lot to answer for. Is it any wonder that churches are turning into cafes and bars in order to attract bigger congregations?
God? Well thats a different matter altogether. How anyone cannot see the obvious harmony and intelliegent design in creation leaves me baffled.
Romans 1:20 sums it up for me:- For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities— his eternal power and divine nature— have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
hmm never been called a religious zealot before.. but ok
nope dont force my children to belive in God, how do you force someone to belive something?
they are only 5 and 4.
but i am teaching tehm about God
when they are old enough to make up thier own minds, and if they decided that they
dont want to belive in God, then that is their choice. it will hurt but i wont love them any less. i will still love and cherish them.
i think their is very little that they could ever do that would make me turn my back on them.
gonna go off and google zealot to see eaxtly what it means.. im interested now *Grins*
but basically i have a deep abiding faith in God. I love God and God is with me everyday.
i dont go to church everyday, i dont stand on street corners.
i dont hate anyone, i really dont dislike anyone to tell you the truth.
im very protective over my family and loved ones.
im loyal and have a very wacky sense of humor.
to tell you the truth i dont even follow the traditions of the church, in a lot of ways.
i believe what i believe and let others do the same..
when i get my back up i get really defensive.
i think its a human thing..
but all in all im just me.
so i am what i am... if that makes sense and if that makes me a zealot well im a zealot *G*You should teach them about other religious beliefs as well as your own or better still, let them find out for themselves then if they want to they can choose to follow whatever makes them happy.
I assume the humanists and atheists won't be celebrating Christmas??
The overwhelming majority of organised religion has a lot to answer for. Is it any wonder that churches are turning into cafes and bars in order to attract bigger congregations?
God? Well thats a different matter altogether. How anyone cannot see the obvious harmony and intelliegent design in creation leaves me baffled.
Romans 1:20 sums it up for me:- For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities— his eternal power and divine nature— have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.:eek:
Birdie Wife
18-Nov-08, 16:40
Read the WHOLE of the Bible and then see what you think, rather than taking individual verses out of context... it's actually a really good read!!
Read the WHOLE of the Bible and then see what you think, rather than taking individual verses out of context... it's actually a really good read!!I have read it, not a bad read at all but tell me, what context do you put that particular verse? There are many more and just as vile to say the least and it would be interesting to know how you reconcile that in your mind?
Reconcile it to what?
Governments ask men and woman to do the same type of things on a daily basis around the world....and all in the name of freedom or so-called freedom.
Would you kill for your country? Would you die for your country?
What do you know about the Amalekites?
Its easy to condemn from our superior technology-enhanced hindsight, but the big picture tells the whole story.
ahem.. not that its anyones buisness what i teach my children, but yes when they are old enough to understand then they will learn about other religions. lets see on thier curriculum right now.. they are learning...
how to say bed time prayers... ie God bless mommy daddy sam ben granny and grandad and whomever else they want to bless.
at meal times, how to say grace.. ie thank you for this food and all the other things that we have in plenty and please let other boys and girls share in the bounty.
they are learning how to share and give to the less fortunate.
how to be nice and forgiving of others.
they will learn the christmas story, how jesus was born in bethleham in a manger and the shephards and the wise men came.
and as they are learning these deep doctorines ( a bit of sarcasm here) i must not forget to teach them of the intolerance of others. of how thier God is fake, and its just a silly bedtime story. and then go on to confuse their little minds with all the other fake Gods in the world, and how just because millions of other people belive in something that its not real.. just like santa isnt real. and that the right and PC thing to do is not to belive in anything, and because we live in an enlightened time you being 5 and 4 years old should be given the choice in what you belive in..even though you cant understand right now.
is that what you would like me to teach my children,
or better yet.. i know what the atheists out there would love!
lets not teach them anything at all... lets not teach them the morals and beliefs of their parents.. because thats just stupid.
so if you dont mind, i will ignore what you want me to teach my children.
and carry on teaching them in small stages what they are to learn.
when they grow up.. and i mean grow up and reach a stage.. not 7 and 8 years old.. but young men, then if they question their faith and want to explore, then by all means they may with me behind the 100 percent.
when they come home crying saying that some class mate has told them God dosent exist i will be there to hold them, and tell them that its ok.. that they do not have to listen to what other people say about God.
that God is always with them.
and when you open your heart and listen God is there.
You dont have to see or hear God, to feel Gods prescence.. you just have to have faith.
and if the day comes that they loose thier faith.
then i will be their beside them.
and i will continue to pray.
i wont turn my back on them and tell them they are wrong.
i will still be there day in and out, being their mother and helping them along the way.
i wonder how people think our daily lives are?
we are no dif. than any one else.
we do normal everyday things...
in fact sam right now is gurning because he has extra homework that he didnt get done in school. and hes not allowed tv until he has finished it.
the only thing dif. in our lives is that we say prayers at night and grace at tea.
and i tell them bible stories when they are willing to listen.
its like anything else.. just a part of daily life..
ahh well.. off to be a parent and make my sons life misreble by telling him nope.. no crisps before tea.. and def. no game tonight as he has 3 extra pages of work he didnt do!
ahem.. not that its anyones buisness what i teach my children, but yes when they are old enough to understand then they will learn about other religions. lets see on thier curriculum right now.. they are learning...
how to say bed time prayers... ie God bless mommy daddy sam ben granny and grandad and whomever else they want to bless.
at meal times, how to say grace.. ie thank you for this food and all the other things that we have in plenty and please let other boys and girls share in the bounty.
they are learning how to share and give to the less fortunate.
how to be nice and forgiving of others.
they will learn the christmas story, how jesus was born in bethleham in a manger and the shephards and the wise men came.
and as they are learning these deep doctorines ( a bit of sarcasm here) i must not forget to teach them of the intolerance of others. of how thier God is fake, and its just a silly bedtime story. and then go on to confuse their little minds with all the other fake Gods in the world, and how just because millions of other people belive in something that its not real.. just like santa isnt real. and that the right and PC thing to do is not to belive in anything, and because we live in an enlightened time you being 5 and 4 years old should be given the choice in what you belive in..even though you cant understand right now.
is that what you would like me to teach my children,
or better yet.. i know what the atheists out there would love!
lets not teach them anything at all... lets not teach them the morals and beliefs of their parents.. because thats just stupid.
so if you dont mind, i will ignore what you want me to teach my children.
and carry on teaching them in small stages what they are to learn.
when they grow up.. and i mean grow up and reach a stage.. not 7 and 8 years old.. but young men, then if they question their faith and want to explore, then by all means they may with me behind the 100 percent.
when they come home crying saying that some class mate has told them God dosent exist i will be there to hold them, and tell them that its ok.. that they do not have to listen to what other people say about God.
that God is always with them.
and when you open your heart and listen God is there.
You dont have to see or hear God, to feel Gods prescence.. you just have to have faith.
and if the day comes that they loose thier faith.
then i will be their beside them.
and i will continue to pray.
i wont turn my back on them and tell them they are wrong.
i will still be there day in and out, being their mother and helping them along the way.
i wonder how people think our daily lives are?
we are no dif. than any one else.
we do normal everyday things...
in fact sam right now is gurning because he has extra homework that he didnt get done in school. and hes not allowed tv until he has finished it.
the only thing dif. in our lives is that we say prayers at night and grace at tea.
and i tell them bible stories when they are willing to listen.
its like anything else.. just a part of daily life..
ahh well.. off to be a parent and make my sons life misreble by telling him nope.. no crisps before tea.. and def. no game tonight as he has 3 extra pages of work he didnt do!
Well put its your life and only you can choose how you live it.
If you want to install christian values into your kids why condemn that?. Whats needed is more condemnation of those that let their kids run wild and free and not someone who tries to bring their kids up to believe in a power greater than us and give them a choice in life.
Its the parents that sit back and let their "little darlings" run wild that should be condemned not someone who is at least trying to give her kids hope and at least they will have a choice when they are older which path they choose to follow.
The humanist association are running a campaign by advertising on the sides of London buses that there's probably no God.
is there a need for people to question the existance of a supernatural God and if so can they ever come up with a satisfactory answer?
The original thread title is 'There's probably no God?' I would agree that there is probably no god as defined by human interpretation and definition of such a god.
I do remember that agonizing essay we had to write in first year theology on the theme 'Proof of the Existence of God'. There are people who do need to question the existence and to substantiate it. I'm okay with letting them get on with their passion. It is just not something I either need to do or to try to prove to anyone else.
As to the issue of letting our children decide for themselves that is a very tall order if they have no information or experience to base a decision on. Had I been left to learn my numbers on my own would I have been able to develop my Math knowledge and skill to the level of being able to do my income tax? I doubt it. My father always thought that I should follow him into the world of accounting. But he never forced numbers on me. Rather he made sure that I had a working knowledge of them and then as an adult I could decide for myself. I decided against being an accountant, but nobody was terribly upset about it. My experience with leaving children without any knowledge or experience is that when it is finally offered to them as an adult they 'jump in' in a very unhealthy way. Loved, well informed, nutured (rather than indoctrinated) children don't usually join cults as adults.
I assume the humanists and atheists won't be celebrating Christmas??
The overwhelming majority of organised religion has a lot to answer for. Is it any wonder that churches are turning into cafes and bars in order to attract bigger congregations?
God? Well thats a different matter altogether. How anyone cannot see the obvious harmony and intelliegent design in creation leaves me baffled.
Romans 1:20 sums it up for me:- For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities— his eternal power and divine nature— have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Ah Saveman, you always say it so beautifully!
I would be quite prepared to accept the possibility of an omnipotent creator if he was said to have created everything except the human race.
Whoever created us humans must be mad or flawed in some way and therefore not to be venerated as a deity.[evil]
I would be quite prepared to accept the possibility of an omnipotent creator if he was said to have created everything except the human race.
Whoever created us humans must be mad or flawed in some way and therefore not to be venerated as a diety.[evil]
I can only think we are Version 1.0 Gleber2 - maybe the number in your moniker indicates that you have already matured to the next level:). I recall someone or other making the quote "If a job is worht doing, it's worth doing badly", I assume we are Gods first shot, and that future models will be have the self-destruct option removed.
You could be right Scotsboy, but in this game we are on to our last life.
efter readin brandys post am wonderin what il do when im a proper grown up wi babies o' ma very own.
il no be fillin their heids wi a lot o' nonsense aboot baby jesus bein born in bethlehem, 3 kings....blah blah blah...i guess when they learn it all at school il choost hev til humour them...:roll:
i can still teach them right fie wrong, guid manners an all 'e rest withoot gien them 'e added pressure o' hevin til believe that there is an invisible man in 'e sky who 'sees' everything. ats what i wis telt when i wis 5 years...!
il certainally no be getin merried in a church either, swearin til god that i do take thee...for ever an ever, til death do us part......blah blah blah.
what would happen if i hed til go til a court o' law an swear on 'e holy bible til tell 'e whole truth...so help me GOD!!!!
i wid hev til explain that 'e holy bible means absolutely nothin til me, tho i hev til agree wi a previous poster, that it is a guid read [lol]
i hear do by swear on ma element encyclopedia of 5000 spells til tell 'e whole truth, an nothin but 'e truth...so help me brighid :Razz
Lolabelle
18-Nov-08, 22:12
The original thread title is 'There's probably no God?' I would agree that there is probably no god as defined by human interpretation and definition of such a god.
I do remember that agonizing essay we had to write in first year theology on the theme 'Proof of the Existence of God'. There are people who do need to question the existence and to substantiate it. I'm okay with letting them get on with their passion. It is just not something I either need to do or to try to prove to anyone else.
As to the issue of letting our children decide for themselves that is a very tall order if they have no information or experience to base a decision on. Had I been left to learn my numbers on my own would I have been able to develop my Math knowledge and skill to the level of being able to do my income tax? I doubt it. My father always thought that I should follow him into the world of accounting. But he never forced numbers on me. Rather he made sure that I had a working knowledge of them and then as an adult I could decide for myself. I decided against being an accountant, but nobody was terribly upset about it. My experience with leaving children without any knowledge or experience is that when it is finally offered to them as an adult they 'jump in' in a very unhealthy way. Loved, well informed, nutured (rather than indoctrinated) children don't usually join cults as adults.
Ah Saveman, you always say it so beautifully!
I'm with you two!!
Well said Canuk & Saveman. :D
wouldnt you swear to the lord and lady?
*grins* well if your wiccan that is.
i thought i read that in another post(sorry if im wrong)
Reconcile it to what?
Governments ask men and woman to do the same type of things on a daily basis around the world....and all in the name of freedom or so-called freedom.
Would you kill for your country? Would you die for your country?
What do you know about the Amalekites?
Its easy to condemn from our superior technology-enhanced hindsight, but the big picture tells the whole story.How do you reconcile the God that commanded the genocide of the Amalekites with a loving, forgiving God? Not many governments around the world ask their soldiers to kill women and children let alone commit genocide.
So they dont want to stop faith schools?
At no point did I disagree with you on that one. They absolutely do want to see an end to faith schools... and I happen to agree with them.
and they dont want to stop people of faith working in state funded schools?
am i reading that totally wrong then?
I'm not sure what you are reading to reach this conclusion but I can find nothing on the BHA site that even comes close to suggesting that any person with faith should be excluded from teaching in a state-funded school.
Honestly, I really can't see how you've managed to twist a campaign against faith schools into a campaign to prevent anybody with faith from teaching. That's quite a distortion.
however i will say that i found the website to be very harsh and angry.
and neg.
You know, it does probably come across that way to somebody who does have faith. But if you try and look at the whole situation with an open mind, do you not agree that both sides of this are probably guilty of the same?
It baffles me – no, it infuriates me – that our democracy still offers the Church of England, by way of Bishops in the House of Lords, an automatic say in the way this country is run. I've been known to scream at the television when I see yet another Archbishop commenting on something which, let's face it, has absolutely nothing to do with his church or his area of expertise (honestly, when those two decided to give their opinion on the bankers and the financial crisis a few months ago I nearly threw the remote at them!).
Take the indignation you're feeling after reading through the articles on the BHA website.
Now imagine that instead of just reading their articles on the website you are faced with seeing their spokesman on the news three or four times a week; with the BBC dedicating several hours of programming just to them and their cause every weekend; with them being given an automatic seat in parliament; with them having three or four offices in every town you've ever visited and with posters proclaiming their policies on display outside them all; with your children having to attend lectures by this group several times each year.
I dare say that whatever indignation you are feeling now would pale by comparison.
You probably don't bat an eyelid when the church interferes with the running of the state – I wonder, do you even notice that the church has and does everything I've listed above? I notice and my eyelids are a-batting!
The BHA is, as far as lobbying power goes, like a fart in a tornado of religious rhetoric. But they are my fart.
remember i come from the country where church and state are seprate. we dont have religion at all in schools. i dont really watch parliment on tv here, as one i cant vote and two unless its something that directly effects me i tend not to pay attention to politics..
so ive no experiance what so ever of church and politics..
to tell you the truth i dont even go to church.
i dont feel you have to be in church every week to be faithful or religious.
in fact i dont follow a lot of the dogma that the church teaches.
but i am deeply religious and faithful to my beliefs..
i think back to when i was about 17 and i started to question my preacher... i didnt agree with a lot of things that he preached.
and i still dont.
for instance i dont belive in hell, well not in the firery everlasting punishment that the hard core old time religion teaches..
i was brought up a southern baptist and its was small children that was taught taht we were born sinners and that we will die sinners and no one deserves to go to heaven but only thru christ that we will find salvation. but on the other hand we were taught that God was aloving father and a benlovent God, who would hold his flock close in one hand and smite his enemies with the other...
well, i dont belive that.
i think of God as my heavenly Father, who gives us choices everyday.
we reap the rewards of what we sew..
if we make bad choices then we have to pay for them.
i belive in the afterlife..
wheter thats big pearly gates or what, well im still here so i dont know yet, just that theres something.
i belive in ghosts and spirits.. ive seen them their real..
i believe in good and bad, right and wrong.
i like how the church of jesus christ have thier after life..
that their are levels.. and the better you are the higher you get, and judgment dosent get forever passed from what you do in this world.
if you can grow and become more in the next and accept what you could not before then you will grow and reach more rewards.. just like here..
i belive in reincarnation..
that some people are very old souls and some not so old..
thier are so many things we do not understand, and until we reach the point when we
cross that path we will not understand.. all we can do is have an open mind and an open heart and be ready for what ever we find at the end of each journey.
so ive no experiance what so ever of church and politics..
Of course you do. You don't have to watch BBC Parliament to see the church getting involved, it's around you every day... you just don't notice it ;)
It occurs to me that I haven't answered the original question yet.
Is this a childish tit for tat spat or is there a need for people to question the existance of a supernatural God and if so can they ever come up with a satisfactory answer?
I think we'll all come up with our own answers and be individually satisfied with them.
As to whether there is a need for people to question the existence of God. Of course there is... especially if you have faith. If you've never questioned your own faith then you aren't a believer, you're just a parrot repeating what you've been told so you can have a nice cracker.
I think I've made it clear that I don't, in the slightest, believe in God. But if I were an omnipotent being lording it over the human race I think I'd be happier with my creations deciding for themselves that I was real than with a flock of sheep bleating in time to the church organ.
Better yet, weigh up the evidence and reach a rational conclusion without pandering to any fears about what comes next or feelings of insignificance when you see how vast the universe is.
Several years ago I went through a very bad time. Eventually in desperation I prayed to God for help and to this day I firmly believe I was given it.
of course i hev respect for yer beliefs brandy but im curious aboot yer line o' thought.
i may be wrong but i thought deeply religious people, lek yersel, christians, who believe in jesus, i thought they didna believe in reincarnarnation. kwite 'e opposite actually :confused
that ye only lived once an once ye passed judgement an went til heaven then 'at wis it...
it seems ye hev pickt an choosed all 'e 'guid' bits so til speak, an kinda made up yer own little religion, which disna involve goin til church or followin religious traditions.
no disrespect, choost curious as to what religion it is yer followin, an is it religious tradition for yer 'people' til believe in reincarnation?
oldmarine
19-Nov-08, 01:22
I am 84 years of age and served during WW2 with most of your grandparents. I see quite a change in the younger generations from what I remember of your grandparents. Most of them believed in God and went to church often. Even during war time I recall them going to military chapel often between battles. When I visited England and Scotland during the 1970s and 1980s I saw the beginnings of the younger generations drifting away from believing in God. I saw the same thing in my younger generations here in the USA but the changes are moving a bit slower. I guess I caught enough hell during the different battles I fought that helped me to want to believe in God and a life hereafter where I want to serve after I leave this earth in death which is not too much longer. I just cannot agree with most of you people. You are free to make your own choices but God help you if you make the wrong choices.
You are free to make your own choices but God help you if you make the wrong choices.
so yer no free then? :confused
no, cause o' all 'e pressure aboot what will happen if ye dina.
guilt an fear = control.
nope def. not part of my traditions as what i was raised on.. which was a very strict intolerance of other faiths, while at the same time had the holier than thou mentality.. well that was in the church anyway. but my grandmother and i use to read from the bible all the time together and spend many a night just reading to each other and talking about what we had read.
domething granny said to me has always stuck.. she said if you follow the comandments that you would be with God, and she was convinced that was all you had to do.
she loved church and to hear a good sermon, but if she didnt agree with the preacher, boy she would tell him what she thought.
like i said, when i was about 17 i started questioning religion A LOT..
its funny, i never ever questioned wheter God was real or not.. I always knew he was there.
God is always with me, when im at my best and when im at my worst.
i just really questioned the way the church portrayed him and how we were suppose to worship.
so i started to diversify..
i studied everything i could, every religion i could look up. all the dif. ways of believing..
i always wondered how God whom is a loving father could condem his children to an everlasting hell, with no chance of redemption.
that things in the big scheme of things really didnt make that much of a deal.
thats when being a history major came into play.
how the church use to rule by fear and power.
how God could be used as a way of controlling people without having to resort to bloodshed or monetary loss.
if you convince someone that they will be forever damned by God unless they do exactly what you tell them, you basically become a god to them.
i found that almost all religions have a basic truth.
that their is one supreme deity.
male or female with possibly many lesser gods and goddesses but the basic structer was there.
that no matter what name God went by.. God was still God.
so at the end of the day when i had went thru all the soul searching.. i found a place and i began to pray. and i continued to pray.
i asked for guidance, and peace.
i asked to be shown what was truth and which path i should take.
and i still pray every single day.
i talk to God every single day.
iohh heres a bit for you.. there was a point i almost became wiccan. i was about 20, i loved a lot of the beliefs and creeds. still do actually. right now im very interested in the spiritualist church, i dont know enough about it yet to make any comments. i have been searching since i was 17 years old for a church that was right for me, and im still searching.
i do belive that there is a heaven. and i do belive theres some kind of hell, as far as the fact that those that need punishment will get it, maybe not forever or in any way we can percive. maybe they have to learn and accept how to be good people.
dont get me wrong.. i do fear God, you dont want to be on his bad side.
the man wiped out the earth before he can prob. do it again.
but like any child an angry parent is a reckoning we just dont want to face.
but then a good parent will pick up their child and tell them, yes i love you but you still had to be punished..
i personally never understood why people blame God when bad things happen. its just that things happen all the time and we just have to go on with our lives.
when Tom died, i remember thinking (once i was able to think again) i am so lucky, i have two beautiful sons who are here and i have to be strong. and i prayed for strength to carry me on..i told the HV and MW who came to talk to me, that in a way i was glad it was me and not another young mum that it was their first baby. its hard to explain that but i was strong enough to get thru it where others would not be. and at least if it had to happen i still had things to be thankful for, if that makes any sense at all, to anyone else.
thier is no black and white in this world, everything is grey areas.
we are always learning and growing and becoming more.
im just really really glad that i have God with me every step of the way to give me a hand when i stumble.
Aaldtimer
19-Nov-08, 04:19
Yeh Brandy, keep on "pickin'n'mixin'" to suit yourself, way to go!
Personally I find it the ultimate Human Arrogance that some believe that we are somehow better than the other animals that inhabit this world....somehow we are superior, and that DEATH isn't the "gnashing of teeth and then SILENCE." Deal with it. :~(
dont get me wrong.. i do fear God, you dont want to be on his bad side.
the man wiped out the earth before he can prob. do it again.
but like any child an angry parent is a reckoning we just dont want to face.
but then a good parent will pick up their child and tell them, yes i love you but you still had to be punished..
im just really really glad that i have God with me every step of the way to give me a hand when i stumble.
im gled ye do too brandy, but the above is double dutch til me.....
god isna a man, he never wis an never will be....
How do you reconcile the God that commanded the genocide of the Amalekites with a loving, forgiving God? Not many governments around the world ask their soldiers to kill women and children let alone commit genocide.
I was speaking to a man last year who said that as part of his service to his country he was ordered to kill a family which included two young girls. He did it, because he was trained to follow orders, and he felt it was for the greater good. He feels very different now.
He has never got over it.
Whether he was telling me the truth or not I don't know, but the army he served in is your own British army.
God is a loving, forgiving God. But he's not a walkover, or a fool. And he's not sentimental. There has to be a basis for forgiveness. Thats why we're urged to repent etc.
He is also the Creator, or the "Source of life," as the Bible calls him. The Bible also says that He can see what is in the heart, something that you and I cannot do. Therefore He can judge perfectly and righteously. So how could I from my narrow, shallow existence question the judgement of a perfect Almighty God?
Some historians have pondered why God would let the Canaanites exist as long as he did because of their repugnant, disgusting worship and practices.
We reap what we sow.
It's good for us each individually to analyse what we are sowing.
You should teach them about other religious beliefs as well as your own or better still, let them find out for themselves then if they want to they can choose to follow whatever makes them happy.
I assume then all athiests should also teach their children about god so that they can also have an informed choice?
I assume then all athiests should also teach their children about god so that they can also have an informed choice?
surly children get enough education aboot god at school?
i wid hardly call it education but im prity sure its in 'e curriculum.
only when they get til highschool do they get til find oot aboot ither religions, christianity bein 'e main aine.
no, I don't think they do now a days. Come on fairs fair. If you bring up your kids not to believe in god, how is that giving them a choice? Is that not the same indoctrination that atheists are accusing those with religious beliefs?
no, I don't think they do now a days. Come on fairs fair. If you bring up your kids not to believe in god, how is that giving them a choice? Is that not the same indoctrination that atheists are accusing those with religious beliefs?
If I was an atheist I would certainly tell my kids about God. I would tell them God is a figment of my imagination. That does'nt mean God's not real. The evidence would suggest that God really does work in some peoples lives. But, I would tell my kids that I believe human beings have the potential of being god just by imagining it. Not an omnipresent miracle working disaster dealing kind of God but a God who works in harmony with nature and everything in it.
Mind you I'm not an atheist, but if I was. :eek:
oldmarine
21-Nov-08, 01:18
If I was an atheist I would certainly tell my kids about God. I would tell them God is a figment of my imagination. That does'nt mean God's not real. The evidence would suggest that God really does work in some peoples lives. But, I would tell my kids that I believe human beings have the potential of being god just by imagining it. Not an omnipresent miracle working disaster dealing kind of God but a God who works in harmony with nature and everything in it.
Mind you I'm not an atheist, but if I was. :eek:
Your comments makes you appear to be an atheist. What you say you would tell your kids is imaging that there is a god appears that you are saying there is no God. Sounds like double talk to me.
I assume then all athiests should also teach their children about god so that they can also have an informed choice?I would say so, although the better choice would be to let them find out for themselves without prejudice.
My son asked me today what Christ meant. He's only in the lower primary but I'm assuming that the indoctrination that folk are talking about, is less common these days. He vaguely knows who Jesus is but I was amazed by how much of my own Christian teaching had stuck in my head (not being a practising Christian).
I don't think they do get as much God bothering in school now, which in some ways saddens me. Not because I'm a 'bible basher' but because there is a lot of cultural/moral value in some of the stuff I was taught as a child.
Plus, I know all the words to the Christmas carols, so it was worth it at this time of year, if only for that.
I'm getting older: God, I hope there is a God!!!!!!!
Metalattakk
21-Nov-08, 02:39
I would say so, although the better choice would be to let them find out for themselves without prejudice.
I can only concur wholeheartedly.
I am in the fortunate situation whereby my parents, religious though they are, put absolutely no pressure on me to follow their chosen religion. I was not forced to attend Sunday School, I was not taught about religion by them in any way or form at all. I cannot thank them enough for that.
It was a shock to them then, when at the age of six or seven, I asked for 'The Illustrated Children's Bible' for Christmas. I was curious, and I wanted to know more.
Duly, I received the book at Christmas time, and read it avidly. It quickly became apparent that this was simply a book of fairy-tales. Since then, I have dallied with religion from time to time, but to me it always comes back to that original feeling that it's all just man-made fairy-tales.
I would have expected that if there really was a God, he would have had the sense and ability to send more than just fairy-tales to try to convince me, even at that youthful age.
I assume then all athiests should also teach their children about god so that they can also have an informed choice?
I wouldn't hide God from them, but I don't think I'd be teaching them 'about' God as a belief.
That would be the equivalent of teaching children biology and then pointing out - with equal conviction - that a spider bite can allow you to climb walls and cast strands of silken web from your wrists.
One is based in fact, the other is based in fiction. You teach your children fact. You allow your children to be entertained by fiction.
I can only concur wholeheartedly.
I am in the fortunate situation whereby my parents, religious though they are, put absolutely no pressure on me to follow their chosen religion. I was not forced to attend Sunday School, I was not taught about religion by them in any way or form at all. I cannot thank them enough for that.
It was a shock to them then, when at the age of six or seven, I asked for 'The Illustrated Children's Bible' for Christmas. I was curious, and I wanted to know more.
Duly, I received the book at Christmas time, and read it avidly. It quickly became apparent that this was simply a book of fairy-tales. Since then, I have dallied with religion from time to time, but to me it always comes back to that original feeling that it's all just man-made fairy-tales.
I would have expected that if there really was a God, he would have had the sense and ability to send more than just fairy-tales to try to convince me, even at that youthful age.
at least we agree on somethin metalattakk....
an choost for 'e record, i still read ma childrens illustrated bible :lol:
Green_not_greed
21-Nov-08, 12:28
There's probably no God?
Really? I thought he played guitar with The Red Hot Chilli Peppers.....
There's probably no God?
Really? I thought he played guitar with The Red Hot Chilli Peppers.....
if anythin, it wid be pink floyd :Razz
You see what you Blasphemors did?
You think yesterdays Thunder over Caithness was co-incedence?
No way, that was Mr Jesus' dad doing his dinger at all the bad press he's getting on here!!!![lol]
Better be nicer to David Icke's dad or prepare for worse!!:lol:
I agree with Trix. Been reading loads of stuff on the subject and just starting to follow my path ;)
an a fine path til follow....
i da ken if yer interested jasmine but i hev a beeg thick 'guide til astrology' book in 'e hoose that i hev no use for. i hev a couple o' copies an wonderin if yer wantin one?
obviously its free, ye wid choost hev til come an pick it up.
its a really guid one wi lots o' diagrams, shows ye how til do birth charts an stuff. its part o' 'e 'keep it simple' series.
pm me if yer interested...
I wouldn't hide
One is based in fact, the other is based in fiction. You teach your children fact. You allow your children to be entertained by fiction.
And that's what you would be teaching your children? By telling them one is based on fiction you would not be guilty of any kind of indoctrination?
What you should be telling them to my mind would be, 'there may well be a god - and just because I do not believe that, does not make it untrue. you must find out for yourself.'
I'm not arguing the existence of God or not - that's been done to death on this board, but it always amazes me how the most vocal among us appears to be the athiests.
By telling them one is based on fiction you would not be guilty of any kind of indoctrination?
What you should be telling them to my mind would be, 'there may well be a god - and just because I do not believe that, does not make it untrue. you must find out for yourself.'
Nooooooo… you see, that would suggest that both arguments are equally valid and they simply aren’t.
I accept that it is impossible to prove that God “does not” exist… but to say that, therefore, God “may well” exist is simply not true.
I’d teach my children to be able to look at the evidence and make rational conclusions based on that evidence… and lack of evidence for something does not mean that it “may well” exist, it means that it almost certainly does not exist.
Put it this way….
A man once wrote a book in which an omnipotent being created the earth and everything on it in six days. He then watched over his creation, interfering occasionally from on high, until he sent his only son to live among us, die for us and then be resurrected to eternal life.
Many years later another man, a television presenter by trade, wrote another book. In his book he claims that the human race is controlled by shape-shifting reptilians from outer space.
There’s absolutely no evidence to prove either. The only difference is that the first has been in print for longer and has a far wider audience.
I’d no sooner teach my children that God ‘may well’ exist than I would teach them that David Ike might be on to something or that Claude Vorilhon could well be the only one of us who sees the truth.
Lack of evidence doesn’t mean that the scales of probability are balanced.
it always amazes me how the most vocal among us appears to be the athiests.
Do you honestly believe that to be true; that atheists are more ‘vocal’ than, say, Christians?
Consider this:
We are having this discussion because the BHA paid for an advert on the back of a bus. That advertising campaign made the national news.
Christian groups have been running adverts on the backs of busses and in the press for years to promote the Alpha Course. Why didn’t their campaign make the national news? Was it because nobody saw it… or was it because we’re all so used to the constant barrage of religious propaganda that we simply accepted it as ‘normal’?
And that's what you would be teaching your children? By telling them one is based on fiction you would not be guilty of any kind of indoctrination?
What you should be telling them to my mind would be, 'there may well be a god - and just because I do not believe that, does not make it untrue. you must find out for yourself.'
I'm not arguing the existence of God or not - that's been done to death on this board, but it always amazes me how the most vocal among us appears to be the athiests.
For those who do not believe there is no explanation, for those who do believe, there is no explanation -------------------------- necessary!
There's probably no God?
Really? I thought he played guitar with The Red Hot Chilli Peppers.....Eric Clapton was the original, beware all immitations.
Bobinovich
21-Nov-08, 20:45
...because there is a lot of cultural/moral value in some of the stuff I was taught as a child.
I feel that I have sufficient 3rd party or self-experienced cultural & moral stories and don't need a book of fairy tales to pass on to my kids!
I was forced to go to sunday school & church choir as a youngster, and would prefer my kids to make their own minds up about religion as and when they're old enough to make that decision for themselves.
Although they both attend Beavers/Cubs and have to say prayers, I wish they didn't have to as I don't think it's necessary - the group could function exactly the same way without reference to an imaginary (IMO) deity!
Nooooooo… you see, that would suggest that both arguments are equally valid and they simply aren’t.
I accept that it is impossible to prove that God “does not” exist… but to say that, therefore, God “may well” exist is simply not true.
All this does is prove my point. You BELIEVE it is not true, and you will tell your children that is the case. you will tell them that science is the only way , because something YOU cannot understand cannot possibly be true. Then you, or some one like you, will have a go at some one else who has a strong faith and may well have had a religeous experience, from trying to influence their own children. bit one sided if you ask me.
All this does is prove my point.
No, I don't see that it does. Your argument is based on an invalid assumption – that science and religion are comparable. Science is based in fact and on evidence. Religion is based only on faith. They simply aren't at all comparable.
You BELIEVE it is not true, and you will tell your children that is the case. you will tell them that science is the only way , because something YOU cannot understand cannot possibly be true.
I'm not sure it's fair to assume that I can't understand religion just because I think it's irrational bunkum.
On the road through evolution it's not all that long since we were simple, pack animals. In a short space of time we've gone from being just another animal struggling to survive in small, close-knit family units to the dominant species on Earth.
There are billions of us swarming the planet now and our lives – those of us on here anyway – are far from a daily fight for survival. Most of us don't know our neighbours let alone everybody in our community and if anybody tried to become our 'pack leader' we'd cry havoc.
I don't think it's a surprise that so many of us feel like there's something missing; like there must be something more to life.
The very imaginative among us – the David Ikes and L Ron Hubbards –lock themselves away in the shed for a few months and emerge clutching an entire new world they've created to fill the void. For those of us who aren't that imaginative (or who simply don't like sheds) there is already a wealth of void-fillers that others (who do like sheds) have already written.
Personally, I'm perfectly happy to think that I just am. The confluence of coincidences that led to me being born is just astounding and I really don't need to allocate 'meaning' to them... but I can absolutely understand why that 'something more' could be comforting.
I'd like to think that whatever my parents did to give me whatever it is I have that allows me to be content with life is something that I, in turn, could pass on to my own children. I won't need to sit them down and instruct them that there is no God - I think I'll be able to give them the rationality to figure that one out for themselves.
Then you, or some one like you, will have a go at some one else who has a strong faith and may well have had a religeous experience, from trying to influence their own children.
Nice of you to put words into my mouth, but they aren't my words. I haven't criticised anybody else for raising their children with faith. What I did say was:
“I think we'll all come up with our own answers and be individually satisfied with them.”
Just as I don't assume that all Christians believe that the Bible is literal or that the Earth is only a few thousand years old, please try not to assume that all atheists think that religion should be outlawed.
I feel that I have sufficient 3rd party or self-experienced cultural & moral stories and don't need a book of fairy tales to pass on to my kids!
I was forced to go to sunday school & church choir as a youngster, and would prefer my kids to make their own minds up about religion as and when they're old enough to make that decision for themselves.
Although they both attend Beavers/Cubs and have to say prayers, I wish they didn't have to as I don't think it's necessary - the group could function exactly the same way without reference to an imaginary (IMO) deity!
Okay, that's fine by me. 'Turn the other cheek' and all that lol.... You believe what you like and vice versa.
Live and let live: that's my philosophy.........
Nice of you to put words into my mouth, but they aren't my words. I haven't criticized anybody else for raising their children with faith. What I did say was:
“I think we'll all come up with our own answers and be individually satisfied with them.”
Just as I don't assume that all Christians believe that the Bible is literal or that the Earth is only a few thousand years old, please try not to assume that all atheists think that religion should be outlawed.
Nothing you have said is a valid argument. Maybe you aren't one of those who criticizes Christians for 'indoctrinating' their children,or thinking christians should be outlawed, I really can't be bothered going back through the thread to find out who exactly said what - just the tone of your argument sounded as if you might be - so apologies if i got that one wrong.
Children should be taught to keep an open mind in all things, question all things, give equal consideration to all theories - IF they are looking for truth. Most are quite happy to go along as they are, not knowing or caring one way or the other. People with any spiritual belief (other than those of certain cultures who may be brainwashed and have never been allowed the freedom to investigate further) are for the most part NOT delusional or dim witted, but intelligent, caring individuals who live worthwhile lives. Before you jump on my head, i know these aren't your words, but by saying that what they believe is 'utter bunkum' is implying that they are. Don't throw David Ike at me, there have been a few mad scientists too.
I cannot say that I have ever had a spiritual experience myself, but I have talked and taken seriously several people who have. I do not think they are all liars or wrong in the head.
Just for the record - do you believe in the loch ness monster or visitations from outer space or is your mind as closed on these issues too?
I think one of the major gripes atheist have with religion is how the concept of God is accepted without any evidence.
I know atheists who have had spiritual experiences and I know Christians who havnt. Spiritual experiences are not necessary to lead an active and useful life. In fact from experience I find them a hinderance.
It's really difficult to reconcile God believers and Atheists. Impossible probably. It takes 2 to tango though
If anyone has anything to add you better be quick otherwise i'll close this thread soon.
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