View Full Version : Nigeria@s witch children..All in the name of religion.
Was wondering if anyone else caught this programme last night, its about the horrific events that happen to children in nigeria.
They are brandished withches by ministers and are either beaten, tortured, burnt, macheted, acid thrown over them, buried alive or just banished from their homes and all in the name of religion.
This was an horrific programme to watch, seeing the fear on the faces of children as young as five. These children are banished from the family by pastors who take money from the parents to clear the child, then it apparently fails and then the children are thrown away or killed.We have many issues about parenting skills in the uk but what these poor children go through is sickening. And all in the name of Christianity..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/nigeria/3407882/Child-witches-of-Nigeria-seek-refuge.html
AfternoonDelight
13-Nov-08, 13:47
Organised religion - the root of all evil! [evil]
anneoctober
13-Nov-08, 14:08
Was wondering if anyone else caught this programme last night, its about the horrific events that happen to children in nigeria.
They are brandished withches by ministers and are either beaten, tortured, burnt, macheted, acid thrown over them, buried alive or just banished from their homes and all in the name of religion.
This was an horrific programme to watch, seeing the fear on the faces of children as young as five. These children are banished from the family by pastors who take money from the parents to clear the child, then it apparently fails and then the children are thrown away or killed.We have many issues about parenting skills in the uk but what these poor children go through is sickening. And all in the name of Christianity..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/nigeria/3407882/Child-witches-of-Nigeria-seek-refuge.html
I missed this programme fortunately, but am glad of your post justine. Some people can do no wrong it seems all in the name of religion! It makes me physically sick to think of these poor kids being slaughtered or maimed. I have 9 grandchildren aged from 12yrs - 5months, so relate to the age groups mentioned here. How anyone could even think of harming a bairn is beyond me.:~(
northener
13-Nov-08, 14:18
African culture -especially West African - is totally different to Western European.
What we see as abhorrent, they (thankfully not all) believe is perfectly right. When we accept that these people are different and stop viewing them as Westerners with no money, then we may get somewhere.
African culture -especially West African - is totally different to Western European.
What we see as abhorrent, they (thankfully not all) believe is perfectly right. When we accept that these people are different and stop viewing them as Westerners with no money, then we may get somewhere.
Did you watch this programme.
Children as young as 15 month old were being thrown away because they were blamed for the death of a friend, relative, sibling, and the whole village is involved. Its not a case of some dont believe, in one province there were over 6000 temples that believed in this religious ways.
One little girl(5) and her 17 mth old sister were abandoned by their mother for their own safety after her husband died and the 5 yr old was accused of being a witch and causing his death. She will never be able to go back to the village.The western guy who is tring to help these children took the child with the mother to the village where the head of the village threaten to kill her that night if the child was not taken away..
How does us seeing them as westerners with no money have any bearing on this. What gives anyone the right to treat a child like this just because there is poverty, and thats all its about, not having to cope with children, so lets brand them a witch.
Over 250,000 children are brandished a witch in the name of religion, and the ministers are getting rich of the parents of these so called witches.
One man(preacher) admitted to killing over 100 children in one village because of the witch theory. No where in the name of humanity does it say that we can treat any human like this.These children are ruined for the rest of their days because of this. Horrific circumstances for anyone.
I too watched this programme and found it disturbing. The so called 'minister' (who's film was little more than a home made horror film) was instrumental in the escalation of 'witch children' being identified. I found it sad that a woman, a mother herself, could spread such rubbish that has lead to so much suffering all in the name of religion and then defend herself by hiding behind her Bible. I doubt she has read it, especialy the 'suffer the little children' passage. Their version of christianity looked very much like sensationalism with undertones of voodoo. It was so hard to see those children chained and the one I found hard was the girl who had a nail driven into her head in the past and was irreparably brain damaged as a result.
Well done to Steppingstones Nigeria for all the work that they do. Without them many of those children would be dead or worse.
It was very disturbing to watch and when you think that these same parents are paying anything up to 24.000 pounds(40,000 NGN) for the minister to pronounce the child free of being a witch, someone is getting fat off the parents.If they can pay that type of money to some idiot with a microphone then they can surely be able to afford to look after there child.
northener
13-Nov-08, 15:58
You're missing my point, Justine. what you describe is truly awful.
But we Westerners judge everything by our standards, to us, West Africans think the same as we do and have the same social code, world views and cynicism when presented with 'Witchcraft'.
Until we can say that these people are culturally inferior when it comes to religion, witchcraft and animist beliefs we won't get very far in curing this problem......I'd like to see anyone stand up on telly and state this cultural inferiority exists without being howled down by PC saddoes and wittering 'do-gooders'.
It is not the done thing these days to point out a national/religious trait towards brutality - especially if it involves black people. Everyone is running scared of the 'R' word.[disgust]
Valerie Campbell
13-Nov-08, 16:46
I didn't know about this programme Justine and reading this was upsetting to say the least. The treatment of children in this way absolutely abhorrent, as anyone in the west would agree, although northerner has a point. I think it's disgusting that the 'preacher' dared to use Christianity in such a way. Nigerians have embraced our western religion so they must know that what they are doing is morally wrong, if they can't see it as culturally wrong.
Where are the parents getting the £24,000 money from? The social fund I bet,no doubt some people will be paying for these rich(24k) families to blame everything on Witch craft and in the name of religion. Sickening what some will do to their children,line them up and shoot them or if thats too harsh sterilise them.
Do get your point Northerner if us westerners dont "get it" then we dismiss it, but thankfully we should all dismiss this for what it is-Madness[disgust]
Where are the parents getting the £24,000 money from? The social fund I bet,no doubt some people will be paying for these rich(24k) families to blame everything on Witch craft and in the name of religion. Sickening what some will do to their children,line them up and shoot them or if thats too harsh sterilise them.
Do get your point Northerner if us westerners dont "get it" then we dismiss it, but thankfully we should all dismiss this for what it is-Madness[disgust]
didn't know Nigeria had a social fund,so what do we do rod ? dismiss it?pretend it doesn't happen?let folk continue butchering kids for their own means?black white religious or not,nothing excuses this.
child cruelty is a crime ,so is murder, a crime against humanity itself not just in law.
battering kids into thinking they are witches,like all the abused kids are made to beleive it is their fault and they are wrong for speaking out against their abusers,or say nothing out of sheer terror of what might else happen to them.
folk that commit violence against kids are no better than the ones that think that thrashing respect into a kid is ok too.
bottom line is this type of crime continues because folk dismiss it as madness nonsense and a waste of their time,or they just don't have the humanity too give a toss.[evil]
percy toboggan
13-Nov-08, 17:27
People from this culture are walking cheek by jowel with us on the streets of our large cities. It's inevitable that at least a few will accept such barbaric practices as normal behaviour. Hence the torsos of African kids are occasisonally found floating in our rivers, and the living ones are sometimes sold into domestic slavery
Do we want it - no we don't....spekaing purely personally you understand...I wouldn't want to offend anyone.
percy toboggan
13-Nov-08, 17:28
Whatever numpty described this as 'organised' religion, thereby bracketting it with more benign faiths from more civilised parts of the world should hang their head in shame.
folk that commit violence against kids are no better than the ones that think that thrashing respect into a kid is ok too.
bottom line is this type of crime continues because folk dismiss it as madness nonsense and a waste of their time,or they just don't have the humanity too give a toss.[evil]
Teaching a kid respect is not "thrashing" it into them, respect makes children better grown ups.
Its easy to say that people "dismiss" it, or its a "waste of time" that isnt the case.Its a country miles away from us that we have no jurisdiction over. What they are doing is terrible,no argument their.But what are UK citizens powers over Nigeria?
This type of crime will continue because that country sees fit to allow it.If you want to change Nigerias stance then why not use some of "your time" to show everyone what we can all do to stop it.? Or do you write cheques your butt cant cash? [lol]
Its not just happening in Nigeria.
There was a recent case in England of kids being tortured for being a witch. This child was taken from Nigeria after their parents died by an aunt who branded her a witch.
My wife was in floods of tears watching this. We have gone onto the website to donate monthly and I hope many now do after the Dispatches programme.
If we had left them alone in the first place they wouldn't be having these problems.
Justine, I didn't see it but wish I did. Although I do find these things abhorrent and disturbing to watch and listen to I think people need to 'see' it to believe it. I don't buy this stuff about culture and norms. I'm going to PM you with some action you can take if you feel strongly enough.
Justine, I didn't see it but wish I did. Although I do find these things abhorrent and disturbing to watch and listen to I think people need to 'see' it to believe it. I don't buy this stuff about culture and norms. I'm going to PM you with some action you can take if you feel strongly enough.
Why not post it so we can all take action?
I would gladly help out, dont agree with this for a minute, no right minded person would.Good for you for doing something positive instead of just talking about it!:grin:
Shabbychic
14-Nov-08, 12:38
This was a really disturbing programme. For those who missed it, it is on again on Sunday 16th, at 10pm on More4.
For those who want to take action, here (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/help-the-child-witches-of-nigeria---support-the-prevent-abandonment-of-children-today-pact-campaign) is a link to a petition on this issue.
you beat me to it. I was going to remind people when it was on. I have signed the petition and i hope that many many others will do this aswell. These children deserve the help and need the help, not tomorrow but today, so come on folks PLEASE SIGN>
Justine, I didn't see it but wish I did. Although I do find these things abhorrent and disturbing to watch and listen to I think people need to 'see' it to believe it. I don't buy this stuff about culture and norms. I'm going to PM you with some action you can take if you feel strongly enough.
Thanks sweatpea. Signed the petition.
I would not normally watch something so horrendous as this but i had never heard about it,so you could say i was curious.Now the images i see of these poor children will haunt me for a very long time.I knew of the hardships and dangers of Nigeria but never this.I dont understand why they feel the need to do this other than to rid them selves of an unwanted burden.I dont see it as a religious sect, i see one person making money from parents and murdering children at their own wil.
Hotrod. i find your offer of help strange after the fact you said it ws easier to dismiss/thinking like westerners as we do.[disgust] but then i suppose we can all have a change of heart
Hotrod. i find your offer of help strange after the fact you said it ws easier to dismiss/thinking like westerners as we do.[disgust] but then i suppose we can all have a change of heart
Maybe what you should do is re-read what I posted then you may understand that I condemn it [disgust] Better still try some carrots heard somewhere they are a good fruit for your eyesight!!!!!![lol]
Maybe what you should do is re-read what I posted then you may understand that I condemn it [disgust] Better still try some carrots heard somewhere they are a good fruit for your eyesight!!!!!![lol]
haha made me laugh
better watch as her and router will be after you
percy toboggan
14-Nov-08, 19:28
Lets own up to it,and as Northener suggests admit that Nigeria is a million miles away from Britain in every sense but the Geographical one...more's the pity.*...
....*the final sentiment is all mine, I wonder who will agree with me.
northener
14-Nov-08, 20:33
Justine, to explain my point:
One only has to scratch away the thin veneer of 'civilisation' to uncover atrocities such as the ones carried out by religious/witchcraft sects in Nigeria and across W. Africa.
Here's some figures for the amount of people executed for Witchcraft in Scotland alone:
558 definitely recorded executions with as many as 300+ unrecorded.
Ref: http://www.summerlands.com/crossroads/remembrance/current.htm
We've moved on since then, harrassment of 'different' people was commonplace in the UK - right up to executing them because they didn't fit in or were to blame for unexplained crop failures, human and livestock deaths.
So why are we so shocked to find out that these practices are still being carried out in some parts of the world?
Thats the point I'm getting at - these terrible acts are being carried out on an almost daily basis in some corners of the world. Yet we cannot comprehend the reasons behind this 'evil' mindset.
It's not 'evil' to those who are involved - it is a necessity to them.
Thats why I said we should not view these people as a bunch of Westerners who are a bit skint and ignorant. They do not have the same social structure, religious beliefs, code of conduct and regard for the individual that we have.
That's not necessarily a bad thing most of the time...but sometimes it can be very, very ugly to our way of thinking. The only way to solve this problem is to appeal to their core beliefs and not simply preach the Great White Western Way to them - that's never worked yet, and it never will.
The petition is a good starting point, but, like I said...this is Nigeria - not Nigg.......
I heard a political commentator remark a few years back , "You cannot take a stone age people and move them into what we call modern civilisation in four generations, especially as it has taken us some thousands of years and we still perpetrate heinous crimes."
Before we condemn others for their mixed up beliefs just take a look at what has happened within our own society within living memory, the rise of facism with millions systematically murdered being the classic case,the horrors of The Russian Revolution, Spanish Civil War, the so called "Troubles," in Ireland to mention a few close ones.
Many of us will shortly be celebrating The Christmas Season and just look at all the pagan traditions that are incorporated into that without most people even realising.
The best that we can hope for is that eventually there will be enough educated people who can challenge these theocratical ideologies and banish them from their societies but I will not be holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
northener
14-Nov-08, 21:56
I heard a political commentator remark a few years back , "You cannot take a stone age people and move them into what we call modern civilisation in four generations, especially as it has taken us some thousands of years and we still perpetrate heinous crimes."
Before we condemn others for their mixed up beliefs just take a look at what has happened within our own society within living memory, the rise of facism with millions systematically murdered being the classic case,the horrors of The Russian Revolution, Spanish Civil War, the so called "Troubles," in Ireland to mention a few close ones.
Many of us will shortly be celebrating The Christmas Season and just look at all the pagan traditions that are incorporated into that without most people even realising.
The best that we can hope for is that eventually there will be enough educated people who can challenge these theocratical ideologies and banish them from their societies but I will not be holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
Well put, Lizz.
Well put, Lizz.The Dogon tribe knew about Sirius B and it's moon, none are visible with the naked eye. Maybe not so 'stone-age' as we think.
northener
14-Nov-08, 22:33
The Dogon tribe knew about Sirius B and it's moon, none are visible with the naked eye. Maybe not so 'stone-age' as we think.
I agree with you 100% TBH, there were many African peoples and nations who were extremely sophisticated. And there's the rub, We view the as being 'stone age' because they do not fit in with our view of the world.
Unfortunately much of those great civilisations has been eradicated over a long period of time.
Having said that, I can sympathise with the commentator who came up with the quote - I know exactly what he means. - 'Pagan' beliefs, tribal hatreds, impoverished farming methods, ethnic boundary lines that are invisible to Westerners etc, are not going to disappear just because the people who live there start wearing baseball caps and walking around with Ipods.....
That's if you agree that we should be trying to 'convert' all nations to the Western way of life. Which I don't think we should. (getting a bit off topic now, so i'll shut me gob).
Not my words, "Stone Age," I was merely quoting.
I am well aware that the peoples of Africa had cultures and knowledge but unfortunately along came a group of colonialists who carved up a continent with no thought about tribal and religeous boundaries an then tried to foist there own often perverted beliefs on the locals.
If as the the geneticists would have us believe then all womankind can be traced back to I think six ancestors that originated from the southern part of the continent then maybe we should all be asking a few questions about who has it right or wrong.
I agree with you 100% TBH, there were many African peoples and nations who were extremely sophisticated. And there's the rub, We view the as being 'stone age' because they do not fit in with our view of the world.
Unfortunately much of those great civilisations has been eradicated over a long period of time.
Having said that, I can sympathise with the commentator who came up with the quote - I know exactly what he means. - 'Pagan' beliefs, tribal hatreds, impoverished farming methods, ethnic boundary lines that are invisible to Westerners etc, are not going to disappear just because the people who live there start wearing baseball caps and walking around with Ipods.....
That's if you agree that we should be trying to 'convert' all nations to the Western way of life. Which I don't think we should. (getting a bit off topic now, so i'll shut me gob).When you explain it like that I agree with his sentiments also, albeit not with his terminology.
percy toboggan
15-Nov-08, 09:45
your ideas of 'our society' do not tally with my own Lizz.
Russia? Spain? even Ireland?? and Germany...where you have confused facism with overt, maniacal nationalism (the latter appealed to the teutonic tendency of inbuilt arrogance and scapegoatism)...these countries are all cultural 'islands' historically and for various reasons differ from mainland Britain.
Isolated communities and cultures evolved at different rates over eons...to assume otherwise flies in the face of common sense.
We are lucky in that our own island culture civilised itself (comparatively) fairly early on and we were a dominant world force. This imbued a society fairly at ease with itself with a relaxed deference which allowed a ruling monarchy to evolve into the role of benign figurehead. Climate helped play a sedating influence and bred a degree of individual insularity.
This took centuries....it could be undone much quicker by handing out careless invitations to the world and his wives.
You just lost me Percy, sorry but I don 't see what point you are trying to make as if any nation has been insular then certainly this one has an can still be blinkered when it suits.
Aaldtimer
16-Nov-08, 18:21
If anyone is interested this programme is being repeated on More 4 at 10.00pm tonight.
Freeview 14
Freesat 124
Sky 138
virgin 142
percy toboggan
16-Nov-08, 19:04
You just lost me Percy, sorry but I don 't see what point you are trying to make as if any nation has been insular then certainly this one has an can still be blinkered when it suits.
You said<Before we condemn others for their mixed up beliefs just take a look at what has happened within our own society within living memory, the rise of facism with millions systematically murdered being the classic case,the horrors of The Russian Revolution, Spanish Civil War>
I wondered why you cited these examples of ' our own ' society...A bit of insularity is good in my opinion...blinkers okay at times too. 'Though Britian has sprobabyl been one the least 'insular' countries since World War Two.
Never mind..none of it matters much, just wanted to explain myself.
I think we may have strayed off the point here somewhat..although interesting reading different arguments!
The main thing is that whatever society, country etc.. what is happening here is absolutely heartbreaking! I am not at all saying that things have or do not happen in our own backyard that are equally appalling. My work takes me to various extremes but none nearly as close as what is happening in Akwa Ibom. We have set up a direct debit to the heroes who are offering shelter, food, education, medicine, to help their cause. They have a great christmas present section on their website which you can donate items in other people's name such as a goat or a bike, great gift. www.steppingstonesnigeria.org (http://www.steppingstonesnigeria.org) . If like us you already have direct debits to other charities then watch the programme and it will have an impact. I am sure the charity is hopefully doing well after the exposure it received on dispatches. We go on about credit crunch and really we have no idea of hard living at all.
percy toboggan
17-Nov-08, 17:30
I think we may have strayed off the point here somewhat..although interesting reading different arguments!
The main thing is that whatever society, country etc.. what is happening here is absolutely heartbreaking! I am not at all saying that things have or do not happen in our own backyard that are equally appalling. My work takes me to various extremes but none nearly as close as what is happening in Akwa Ibom. We have set up a direct debit to the heroes who are offering shelter, food, education, medicine, to help their cause. They have a great christmas present section on their website which you can donate items in other people's name such as a goat or a bike, great gift. www.steppingstonesnigeria.org (http://www.steppingstonesnigeria.org) . If like us you already have direct debits to other charities then watch the programme and it will have an impact. I am sure the charity is hopefully doing well after the exposure it received on dispatches. We go on about credit crunch and really we have no idea of hard living at all.
I had a brief look at your link & with respect, why are you directing me towards a donation to the children of an oil rich state like Nigeria?
I am not of the belief that charity begins and ends at home but when people will not help themselves or their own I have to draw the line.
You obviously have a much wider experience of poverty than I do but isn't the essential truth here is that the ruling classes in Nigeria have questions to be asked of them and I'm not likely to help 'em sidestep the answers by chucking a few quid into a bottomless pit.
I'm open to persuasion if you can be bothered.Incidentally many of those kids look much happier than some of the children I see hanging around street corners and shopping precincts here.
Just watch the programme Percy and you will see.
Maybe what you should do is re-read what I posted then you may understand that I condemn it [disgust] Better still try some carrots heard somewhere they are a good fruit for your eyesight
Pure conjecture, rabbits go blind wether they eat carrots or not.[lol]
Pure conjecture, rabbits go blind wether they eat carrots or not.[lol]
Carrots contain Vitamin A which aid the signals sent by the nervous system along the optic nerve to the brain, thus aiding eyesight.(Thats not Dr Google as I have a C&G in health and Nutrition)But then again are you comparing yourself to a rabbit? in that case I dont have a scooby what they get up to![lol]
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