View Full Version : Inverness Cast-offs - Wick Ward Forum
I'm sure many of you saw footage on STV or read in the P & J about the new Millburn Academy, Inverness, which opened yesterday at a cost of £26million. The old school built in the 60's is being demolished to make way for new playing fields.
On the other hand Wick High School is struggling on, trying to make the best of a bad situation for its pupils and staff, only to be hit again by problems to do with antiquated equipment in the school. A total failure of two of the school's boilers during the October break has resulted in major problems with the already inadequate central heating system within the school.
You would think the obvious thing to be done, to rectify the situation, would be for the landlord to have new boilers installed ASAP. Ah but wait a minute, its Highland Regional Council we are talking about here and the school is situated in the "forgotten county", Caithness. Let's save money here. Instead of buying new boilers for Wick High School, let's just use the old ones from the soon to be demolished Millburn Academy. What a disgrace, that on a day that Millburn pupils enjoy their new surroundings, Wick High takes delivery of their cast-offs. A load of old rusted junk soon to be installed within the school to replace the failed boilers.
After the opening yesterday of Millburn, the chairman of the education committee, said: “I am really pleased that the council has been able to make this huge investment in the city of Inverness. This 21st-century school will provide a smart learning environment not just for the pupils but also for the community who will use the sporting and theatre facilities.” Will we ever hear him say the same words about Wick?
On Tuesday, November 18th at 7 pm, Wick High School hosts the Wick Ward Forum. The subject of this specially convened Forum is the condition of the fabric of Wick High School. A chance for the public, parents in particular, to question local councillors and HRC officials on the present situation in the school.
A word of caution should you decide to come. Wear your thermals and if you need to visit the toilets in the school, make sure you bring your own toilet tissue and soap.
Please try and come along - Wick High School needs your support.
Wick Ward Forum Tuesday 18th November, 7 pm, in Wick High School.
Of course the Chairman of the Education Committee, is Wick, and the ORG's very own Councillor Fernie.
This is a horrendous situation, I actually thought about the Wick High issue when I saw the article about Millburn Academy. I know we are amidst a credit crunch but I think our childrens education in a safe and positive environment is as important as Inverness getting a new improved academy.
I also feel that the issue of building a new academy in Dingwall on a flood plain is worthy of a mention. Are Highland Council really that stupid...well it would appear that they are.
We pay our council taxes so we should really have a say in the way our counties are run. I also hate the way that sometimes we are referred to as "Highland Region" and other times we are "Caithness" surely we cannot be in two places at once!
Rant over....for now anyway!
What many folk should be asking themselves is, would they be happy working in a place that was cold, damp, no toilet paper or soap ? I think the answer would be no, so why should our children have to put up with it.
Typical of the way we are treated in Caithness. As long as the Highland Council gets our money they forget about us after. I suggest we all stop paying our council tax until something is done for us. They can't put us all in jail.[disgust]
Highland Region ceased to exist following the last local government reorganisation in 1995. Interestingly enough Inverness-shire and Caithness and all the other counties were technically brought to an end at the previous reorganisation in 1975. But in spite of all that we still use the old county structure in addresses and long may it continue despite gerrymandering by people like the Boundary Commissioners and the latest thoughts on local government units from on high.
The whole reason for setting up the large council areas was so the large town or city around which they were formed could raid the surrounding areas for funds.
The "official" excuse, sorry that should be reason, was that all the people from the surrounding areas made use of all the things provided by those towns/cities and never paid a penny towards them.
Total rubbish, to put it politely, but that is also the excuse for them grabbing everything and centralising them there.
Having done that they then scream about people from outside cluttering the places up with their cars as an excuse for demanding more money from people outside their tiny enclave.
Don't worry though, they will throw you the odd crumb, probably a new coat of paint for the school to cover the rot, so that they can fob you off by telling you how lucky you are to have so much from deprived areas spent on you. Oh, and you really don't understand how lucky you are, just keep sending the money.
I'm relatively new up here, by comparison, but even I use the County names and I always will.
Since I first started coming to Caithness in the mid 1990s, before I moved here, even I have noticed a great deterioration in the County's infrastructure during that time.
When I first came up things had obviously been well looked after and kept in good order which is more than can be said now by any stretch of the imagination.
Caithness? wheres that? Oh thats that place north of Inverness isnt it. That could be that place that isnt on the British mainland isnt it!
We can never win because our councillors arent reallty interested in the counties they are supposed to represent.Why they are even saying that providing free school meals to primary children is too much of a drain on the system!
inverness will always get what it wants it always has.caithness and Sutherland will always be the poor cousins.
Wick high is a disgrace(its condition) but we will have to make do with it and they just hope in their lovely warm offices sipping cups of tea and claiming expenses for everything and anything that we will forget about it. NO CHANCE!!!!
Maybe we should send our children to study in their modern well equipped warm,SAFE offices?
I wonder what would happen if all the parents complained to the European court of human rights? after all the conditions our kids are working under is surely unjust?
Now that would make them take notice!!! [disgust]
if wick high is in such a bad state ,has the HSE been brought in or are they too under direction of inverness
if wick high is in such a bad state ,has the HSE been brought in or are they too under direction of inverness
Good point, There are Laws governing workplaces surely schools are higher priority than a workplace?
dirdyweeker
06-Nov-08, 01:52
well, we will not be getting a chance to go and air our views. :(
The meeting has already been cancelled before it got off the ground.
Meeting has been rearranged for 18th November.
i can only assume too that the headmaster and teachers have done nothing either about the state of the place aren't they union members are they happy working in these conditions or are they too like the councilors and mp's and just don't care,cause they are only in it for the money
maybe an all out strike ,staff and kids,would shake up the authorities and get the problem sorted out and stop all the twiddling about holding meetings that will go on and on and get no one anywhere.
Penelope Pitstop
06-Nov-08, 12:39
i can only assume too that the headmaster and teachers have done nothing either about the state of the place aren't they union members are they happy working in these conditions or are they too like the councilors and mp's and just don't care,cause they are only in it for the money
maybe an all out strike ,staff and kids,would shake up the authorities and get the problem sorted out and stop all the twiddling about holding meetings that will go on and on and get no one anywhere.
I would imagine the headmaster, teachers, etc have been drumming on about this for years, but their cries falling on deaf ears?
An all out strike would only hurt the kids more.....Standard Grades and Higher Grades coming very shortly.
The high school is in need of repairs/replacement, everyone knows that but a new school or major repairs can't just happen overnight. Therefore surely the boilers, second hand or otherwise, are better than freezing?
i can only assume too that the headmaster and teachers have done nothing either about the state of the place aren't they union members are they happy working in these conditions or are they too like the councilors and mp's and just don't care,cause they are only in it for the money
maybe an all out strike ,staff and kids,would shake up the authorities and get the problem sorted out and stop all the twiddling about holding meetings that will go on and on and get no one anywhere.
Unfortunately for the rector and staff they are employed by HRC who are also the landlords of the school. I'm afraid small wording in employment contracts prevents them from speaking out publicly. They are doing what they can, I can assure you of that.
Strikes are an option, but not one that would benefit the pupils. Fair enough there have been plenty meetings and you might be of the opinion they are pointless. The Parent Council have done a lot to bring out into the open the problems at the school and lack of funding etc from HRC. This has been done by them due to the lack of effort and input from our local councillors to bring the school into the 21st century. The school has been delapidated for years and they have sat back and watched all the money go to Inverness. An immense amount of time and effort by members of the Parent Council has resulted in letting HRC know that we are not going to go away or be fobbed off with paltry sums of money or second-hand equipment to patch over what should be replaced. The 1 million promised for repairs does not mean the fight for a new school goes on hold. The opposite is the case. The more we delve into the why's and wherefors of how HRC allocate their money the more determined we become that only a new school will suffice.
Can I ask you, as a parent how many meetings you have attended to show your support or express your concerns to the powers that be?
Alice in Blunderland
06-Nov-08, 23:41
I am glad to see that the meeting will be going ahead . I am still able to manage to go so I will hopefully be there. :)
This is just a thought but one to share with you.............. IMHO
Yes the boilers are someone elses cast offs but is that not better for the high School at this time than new ones.
If by installing old run down second hand boilers then there is a strong chance that within a short time they too will cause problems. Okay this will then impact on the repair bill but it still means that the heating system is not up to scratch thus still giving you ammunitionin the fight for a new build.
Yes the school is in a bad state and the present parent council are doing a great job in keeping pressure up for a new build which is deserved.
It will be a long haul as there are a few schools out there pressing for new builds and there is not a lot of money to go around. :~(
i asked my daughter earlier what she thought about the conditions,she said it was ok apart from the maths dept and part of a new block that was put up she is quite happy going there though it's a bit old fashioned and usualy quite warm throughout the classrooms.i have seen the inside of the school on quite a few occasions and agree it could do with some tidying up and a bit of refurb here and there.
i agree on the striking,it wouldn't do much good and apart from that they don't appear to have any grounds for it cause it doesn't realy appear to be that bad,how much of all this is down to the more personal standards that some people expect of their local high school.
the building on the whole seems sound and weather tight ,for a building its age its fairing up pretty well.
the councilors at the end of the day have there own hands tied,as they can only do what they have the funds for it's not up to them how much inverness gets.
as for the million promised,if the school are frugal that much can go a long way,nice shiny new doesn't stand much these days ,you get what you can for your money.
concerns over the supposed state of wick,i have none,hence i have no need to attend meetings.
Alice in Blunderland
07-Nov-08, 09:16
Yes the high school isnt quite at this momment falling down around the children. :eek:
My older three also attend and some days its warmer than others some classes are better than others and in some classes you take your coat off and in others you keep them on.
The high school over the years has been and still is being underspent on maintainance. Over the years when the money has been made available in the pecking order Wick and other schools in Caithness and Sutherland havent quite managed to get as much if any at all.
Yes to a degree its down to what the individual expects but its also down to a fair share for all in the Education spending pot.
In the next few years if the Parent Council and councillors dont keep the pressure up, again the High school may be passed over in favour of schools in larger populated areas until it falls into such a state then action will have to be taken.
The down side in all this is there is only so much money in the pot so one schools joy will always be another schools sorrow. :(
If conditions are as bad as reported at Wick High School, has no one thought of contacting the press ? By that I mean the scottish nationals, not those over the border.There is also the other media that could be contacted i.e, television and radio.
Why not run a campaign to shame the authorites into action? If every person with a pc either drafted a letter or e-mailed the media with a copy to their elected representitive then just possibly the deluge of correspondence might produce a result.
I know it can feel like hitting one's head against a brick wall when dealing with authority but if enough of you are prepared to take action then from my past experience they will have to react.
As I am not resident in the county I cannot set up such an action group but would be happy to pass on my experiences in dealing with such matters if there are those amongst you who do feel strongly enough about it.
Get in there and raise a storm!
Sapphire2803
07-Nov-08, 11:05
Tried that.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/7342422.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/7359331.stm
Honestly, the apathy around here is unbelievable.
Tried that.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/7342422.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/7359331.stm
Honestly, the apathy around here is unbelievable.
i wouldn't say that the faults highlighted so far warrant a whole new build,your first link shows a picture of a wall that needs a bit of filling a coat of paint,i have never seen signs of subsidance or any serious structural faults.
"Problems are said to include small classrooms, damp, rusting radiators and rotten window frames".
all these faults i would say can be repaired,if your home has a bit of damp rusty radiators and rotten windows would you knock it down or build new.
doubt it.
If conditions are as bad as reported at Wick High School, has no one thought of contacting the press ? By that I mean the scottish nationals, not those over the border.There is also the other media that could be contacted i.e, television and radio.
Why not run a campaign to shame the authorites into action? If every person with a pc either drafted a letter or e-mailed the media with a copy to their elected representitive then just possibly the deluge of correspondence might produce a result.
I know it can feel like hitting one's head against a brick wall when dealing with authority but if enough of you are prepared to take action then from my past experience they will have to react.
As I am not resident in the county I cannot set up such an action group but would be happy to pass on my experiences in dealing with such matters if there are those amongst you who do feel strongly enough about it.
Get in there and raise a storm!
Thanks for the good advice Lizz. The Parent Council started a Campaign in March this year.
The BBC, STV, Daily Mail, Scotland on Sunday, Press & Journal, Big Issue, John O'Groat Journal and Caithness Courier, Radio Scotland and Moray Firth Radio have all publicised the problems in Wick High School. We have sent also sent over 700 postcards highlighting the condition of the school to Alex Salmond, organised an online petition and one from the pupils, organised MSP visits and met with Alex Salmond, written countless letters and given Power Point Presentations to the public, local councillors and HRC officials.
The biggest problem we have is getting people to openly show their support for the campaign. Everyone agrees (well that's apart from Router) that we need a new school but its only a small group who are willing to stand up and shout for it.:(
http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/4184/Wick_High_School_-_the_fight_goes_on.html
Sapphire2803
07-Nov-08, 11:59
i wouldn't say that the faults highlighted so far warrant a whole new build,your first link shows a picture of a wall that needs a bit of filling a coat of paint,i have never seen signs of subsidance or any serious structural faults.
"Problems are said to include small classrooms, damp, rusting radiators and rotten window frames".
all these faults i would say can be repaired,if your home has a bit of damp rusty radiators and rotten windows would you knock it down or build new.
doubt it.
You're right up to a point and that's half the problem (IMO), the media want faults that they can show in a picture, so they show peeling paint, rotten window frames and a crack in the wall (which while rather worrying, isn't structurally unsound)
If you've got 1/2 an hour, try googling HAC (High Alumina Cement). The beams in ceiling beams over the pool are made from that stuff. The motion sensor alarms on the beams were activated a few years ago. The council's answer? Switch them off. Two inspection reports on those beams have advised that they should be investigated properly. One of those reports was in the 70's. Has anything ever been done? NO!
Now...
An alkaline environment is very aggressive for HAC.
A warm, damp environment is very aggressive for HAC.
Remember now, these beams are in the room that houses the pool! So we have HAC beams (famed for their ability to fail) in the room which houses the pool (Probably the worst possible environment).
So what I hear you say? The roof may fall in?
It's not the roof, that's a two storey building.
The gym is above the pool... Yes, THE GYM! All that jumping about gives me nightmares!
For the record. It was advised in a report that the gym, pool and showers should NOT be used until a full inspection/survey was carried out on those beams. It was ignored!
If none of that worries you, then asbestos is a lovely word that tends to get people worried. There's plenty of that too.
[/rant]
i wouldn't say that the faults highlighted so far warrant a whole new build,your first link shows a picture of a wall that needs a bit of filling a coat of paint,i have never seen signs of subsidance or any serious structural faults.
"Problems are said to include small classrooms, damp, rusting radiators and rotten window frames".
all these faults i would say can be repaired,if your home has a bit of damp rusty radiators and rotten windows would you knock it down or build new.
doubt it.
Just let me know when it was that you qualified as a structural engineer, then I'll be willing to reply to your "advice".
It is in a truly shocking state and cant believe that some think all it needs is a lick of paint :(
What you have described sapphire is nothing short of Blinkered thinkinh from HRC. They were advised to close the gym etc and they didnt/
I have 2 kids at the school and will write a letter to advise that I do not wish my Children to take part in ANY activities in that building, If more parents do the same then maybe they will have to do something about it? After all how can HRC justify putting Children at risk?
Pulling kids out of being in that building would surely be a good story for the press,as they love a "David and goliath" story. It'll take alot of "davids" but dont we all love underdogs :)
Its about time our elected officials actually did what we elected them to do!! [disgust]
Sapphire2803
07-Nov-08, 12:13
The thing is they were "advised" and not ordered. What do they care? Do any of their children attend Wick High?
For anyone who wants to see the worst case scenario with HAC beams in schools. Just google Camden school for girls, roof collapse.
Scary stuff.
all these faults i would say can be repaired,if your home has a bit of damp rusty radiators and rotten windows would you knock it down or build new.
doubt it.
But if its putting your children at risk wouldnt you be the first in the queue at the council offices? I know I would.
After all the posts you and yours have made about keeping children safe and knowing about people in the area,trying to give everyone advice about how to raise their kids,I would've expected a bit more from you regarding kids safety in a school building!
Double standards? :(
http://www.rmd.communities.gov.uk/project.asp?intProjectID=11090
More info on HAC, very scarily it hasnt been recommended for use since the 70's due to structural failings!!!!!
Mr P Cannop
07-Nov-08, 14:45
LOCAL campaigners are boiling mad after learning that Wick High's replacement heating system has come second-hand from a school due to be demolished.
Education chiefs moved quickly after the heating system failed at the dilapidated school. They drafted in a couple of replacement boilers – but action group members campaigning for a new school are angry that the Wick has received old equipment from the now vacated Millburn Academy, Inverness, which is to be knocked down.
The campaigners resent getting the Highland capital's "cast-offs" which they feel will have a limited life, but the arrangement has been defended by the Highland Council.
The action group also feel that local councillor Bill Fernie has added insult to injury by singing the praises of the Highland Council over the opening of the new £26 million Millburn Academy – on the day that the Wick school got the news about the boilers.
The group, which has been fighting an uphill battle for a new school, intends to lodge a strong protest to the council.
The four-boiler, oil-fired heating system failed during the fortnight-long October break. The council's estate strategy manager Brian Hemming immediately put plans into action to press the redundant Millburn boilers into service. They are currently being fitted. A third boiler is out of action and awaiting spare parts, leaving one unit struggling to cope with the school's increased winter heating demands.
Graham Nichols, area education, culture and sport manager, described the use of the surplus boilers from the redundant Millburn Academy as normal practice and added: "Not only is it best value for the council, it is a particular solution to meeting a need."
The cost involved will be met from the Highland Council's maintenance budget and won't encroach on the £1 million set aside for refurbishment work at Wick High.
Action committee spokeswoman Julie Mackinnon said: "We were led to believe that we were going to get a new heating system so the patch-up job is a slap in the face. It is another indication of the extent of the deplorable state of the school.
"The boilers have come from an old school and, as they are second-hand, they are unlikely to solve the problem for any length of time.
"The truth of the matter is that the heating system is inadequate... the pipes are constantly bursting."
Rust was clearly visible on the new heating system as it lay under tarpaulin at Wick High this week.
Mrs Mackinnon said that Wick councillor Bill Fernie, enthusing about the opening of Millburn Academy, had rubbed salt in the action committee's wounds.
Mr Fernie, who chairs the Highland Council's education, culture and sport committee, referred to it as "a 21st-century school" which would be "a wonderful facility" for the city.
Mrs Mackinnon commented: "When is he going to make similar statements about Wick High? It really annoyed us."
Mr Fernie told the John O'Groat Journal that it would have been strange if the chairman of the education committee had not welcomed the opening of a new school in any part of the Highlands and went on: "It does not mean to say I am not keen to try to promote improvements at Wick High. I would be happy if we could find a way to get a new school there, but we have budgets for some 200 schools in our area to consider."
Turning to the boiler replacements, Mr Fernie said that the two Millburn Academy units have an estimated life of between 10 and 15 years left in them, and are only intended to be a temporary measure.
The possibility of Wick High's heating system being linked to the Wick woodchip plant is under consideration by the Highland Council and if, that isn't possible, the alternative would be an independent system.
Mr Fernie made the point that in the current economic climate it would not have been prudent for the council to fork out a capital sum for new boilers as a short-term measure.
The new school issue will again be to the fore at the rescheduled Wick ward forum at 7pm on November 18, at the high school, when the guest speaker will be Hugh Fraser, the Highland Council's director of education.
Good on them for a bit of recycling. Seems to make sense and saves money.
telfordstar
07-Nov-08, 15:44
In the state the high school is in why waste money on the new!!
My wee cousin started back at her new school in Inverness and I was asking her what it was like, she is into music and drama and she says the facilties are amazing, dance studios, booths for recording, laptops and all sorts of hi-tec stuff. By the sound of it the kitchens in the cooking department are top of the range appliances. I'm delighted for her and her pals. I've been in the old Millburn and have to say it was in a lot better state than Wick is in my opinion.I feel sorry for the pupils and teachers in Wick. It must have an awful effect on learning and morale and how they feel about the school. It must also limit the school on having outsiders coming to do events and things as well which all add to the experience.
Mr Fernie made the point that in the current economic climate it would not have been prudent for the council to fork out a capital sum for new boilers as a short-term measure.
What I cant understand is-Why would new boilers only be a short term measure?.
Add the cost of removing the Millburn boilers+transporting the boilers+re-installing the boilers+connecting them to the system+alot of maintenance over their life as they are old+callouts when it breaks down in Winter(it will) against new boilers installed?
new boilers ordered and installed=less maintenance,little set up costs.
It seems a false economy to me, most people know that if you remove something that was installed somewhere and move it to another location it never lasts long!
Surely the boilers were purpose built for Milburn Academy? if thats the case then surely money will be needed to modify them to work in Wick High?
But then again new boilers would upset them in Inverness who couldnt give two hoots about anyone north of them, why should they when those elected to represent us dont care? (or dont seem to let us know how they feel)
They may have a "school for the 21st century"and "a wonderful facility" in Inverness but the Wick one is more Victorian, something to be proud of eh?
Bad Manners
07-Nov-08, 16:04
I think the council have acted in good faith and are to commended for their action. They have taken working surplus heating units that would have either been in storage or scrapped and put them to good use.
The fact there is heating in the school is fine it makes no difference to the pupils wheather the heat is generated from an old boiler or a new boiler Heat is Heat.
By taking this action the council has given themselves time to come up with another solution if one is required and at the end of the day it is Our money they are spending and in this case I praise them for resolving the problem in an economical way
Recycling as it should be
By taking this action the council has given themselves time to come up with another solution if one is required and at the end of the day it is Our money they are spending and in this case I praise them for resolving the problem in an economical way
Recycling as it should be
I can see your point and agree to a degree. The only thing is how long do they need to come up with more solutions? The only solution that the people of Wick want is to be treated fairly and have a school that is both safe and warm.
I have to say that having followed this and the other thread on much the same lines that at first I was amazed at them using the old boilers from Inverness. Having thought about it tho it would seem that it is a sensible idea. The point at the moment seems to be that the heating system doesn't work and if the replacement works then at least that is one thing sorted and at a fraction of the cost of a new boiler or even heating system. Perhaps the council are doing something sensible, cost effective and environmentally friendly.
I would like to add that I am not overly keen on your apparently posting whole chunks for the local paper Mr Cannop - I notice that a link could be posted from the Groat online which might be the better option.
Bad Manners
07-Nov-08, 16:57
I can see your point and agree to a degree. The only thing is how long do they need to come up with more solutions? The only solution that the people of Wick want is to be treated fairly and have a school that is both safe and warm.
I can see that the council has taken a bit of thought with this they would not undertake this if it was not going to be cost effective and I do agree that in inverness they have these wonderful new buildings but I do think everything takes time and had wick had a new building and inverness left with a victorian school would you condem the council for that.
Whilst it would be nice to have all new buildings all new equipment etc at times it is not possable however we still have a lot to be thankful for There are some schools that are in a worse state than wick I have been in some seriously bad schools where no money has been spent where the staff would rather stack shelves than teach because of the conditions and the fear of being attacked Whilst Wick is by no means a show school it is a lot better than some
Alice in Blunderland
07-Nov-08, 17:52
As I said in the other thread one schools joy will almost certainly be another schools sorrow in the current financial climate. There is unfortunately not a huge never ending pot of cash so not everyone gets and some get less than others unfairly.
The boilers are second hand and as it has been stated will most probably fail in the near future.................this would be an advantage for the parent council to use in their fight for a new school.
If the council were to spend mega money on a brand new system and then a few years down the line pull it out as a new school is to be built then that wouldnt be a good use of taxpayers money :confused I would think.
Its been accepted that its a good few years down the line before a new school may happen and in the meantime other schools will also be falling into a worse state of repair competing with Wick for the title of 'most in need of repair school'.
First reactions are always emotional but when you sit back and think things through some reason can be found in what has been done and it can be used to the schools advantage. :)
I reckon the old front building could be re-furbished b ut the old concrete blocks at the back need to be knocked down and start again.
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