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teddybear1873
18-Jan-06, 18:16
Just wondered what people views are on religion, ghosts etc. I'm not a believer dont think i ever will. I havent got anything against it, its just not for me. Where is the proof that God excists the same with ghosts. I will say i'm interested in the paranormal but i'm still not convinced that theres ghosts and ghouls walking the night.It's the same with the Loch Ness monster, yeti etc..In my view i think its just all a money making scheme but the religious part has alot to answer for as most wars this last few hundred years have been fought over religion...Would the world be a better place without it ?

scotsboy
18-Jan-06, 18:43
A tad simplistic, I disagree on that most wars have been fought over religion - the conflicts even religous ones are more political than religous.

motopitcrew
18-Jan-06, 18:43
when your dead your dead end of story no ghosts or reincarnation as for the religion side of things science has proved the whole god thing to be a farce
the bible is the biggest selling book of fiction of all time

teddybear1873
18-Jan-06, 19:02
A tad simplistic, I disagree on that most wars have been fought over religion - the conflicts even religous ones are more political than religous.
So what makes u think its more political than religious based.I'm not saying there not but there's been millions of people killed over the years due to religion.I can understand the USA invading Iraq was probebly political due to oil but at the end of the day Saddam was a religious nut

_Ju_
18-Jan-06, 19:21
I believe in etc

captain chaos
18-Jan-06, 19:30
Religion....... Nope don't believe

blackbess
18-Jan-06, 19:38
better place than this for us all - you dont believe that aint got much going for you.

cullbucket
18-Jan-06, 19:39
So what makes u think its more political than religious based.I'm not saying there not but there's been millions of people killed over the years due to religion.I can understand the USA invading Iraq was probebly political due to oil but at the end of the day Saddam was a religious nut

Was Saddam really a religious nut? Or have you been believing the hype??

Here is some quotes from wikipeda.com

Saddam saw himself as a social revolutionary and a modernizer, following the model of Nasser, President of Egypt. To the consternation of Islamic conservatives, his government gave women added freedoms and offered them high-level government and industry jobs. Saddam also created a Western-style legal system, making Iraq the only country in the Persian Gulf region not ruled according to traditional Islamic law (Sharia). Saddam abolished the Sharia law courts, except for personal injury claims.

captain chaos
18-Jan-06, 19:46
Blackbess "better place than this for us all"
Yeh right and this would be... Orkney??

Blackbess "you dont believe that aint got much going for you"

Again you know nothing of my life...... which along with a great wife and healthy 16 month old I would say I have it all going for me. Its what you make of life and not what you pray your life would be like.


End

teddybear1873
18-Jan-06, 19:50
Was Saddam really a religious nut? Or have you been believing the hype??

Here is some quotes from wikipeda.com

Saddam saw himself as a social revolutionary and a modernizer, following the model of Nasser, President of Egypt. To the consternation of Islamic conservatives, his government gave women added freedoms and offered them high-level government and industry jobs. Saddam also created a Western-style legal system, making Iraq the only country in the Persian Gulf region not ruled according to traditional Islamic law (Sharia). Saddam abolished the Sharia law courts, except for personal injury claims.
Are you believing the hype that he isnt just by a few articles you have read. Maybe he is or isnt a religious nut, we could go on debating that. If you read that article that gives a different view http://courses.washington.edu/com361/Iraq/religion/saddam_political.html

landmarker
18-Jan-06, 19:58
better place than this for us all - you dont believe that aint got much going for you.

What a gloom laden post Bess.

We can't live our lives in the hope of some heavenly afterlife.
Life is what you make it, rather than letting a 'maker' improve your lot when yer deed.

I have no truck with organised religion, which is often hierarchical. In times of great stress and impending tragedy, I have prayed.
I suppose I am a hopeful agnostic weho has tried to live a good life.

Hedging my bets ? - very probably.

Buck up a bit ? eh?

cullbucket
18-Jan-06, 20:11
Nope, I am saying he was not a religious nut because he didnt act like one... if he used religion it was for political gains, not any other reason (IMO)

Ayatollah Khameini - Religious nut
Suicide Bomber - Religious Nut
Iain Paisley - Religious Nut

I rest my case (I'm too busy to be doing this......still at work)

Also suggest you read "Angels or maggot food?" thread from a few months ago.

PS I believe god is an invention of man the best insurance policy you can get....

Saveman
18-Jan-06, 20:19
Quite a few of the forum members, including myself, have already expressed their views on the subject of religion, ghosts and such like. There are widely differing views on this subject throughout the world, debates rage on and on.

Religion seems to be at the centre of a lot of the trouble spots in the world today. I grew up in one of those trouble spots. Though I was never personally affected by the troubles, I did experience some of the tension and stress that living in such a climate inevitably brings.
It's funny that one of the things that Jesus (a figure hailed as a prophet by many religions, not just Christians) said was to "love thy enemies." Yet both sides claimed to be Christian.

Whether religion is used as an excuse for political action, or whether it's a doctrine of violence against innocent people, its clear there's something very, very wrong with the world. Religions fault?
Some wise person once said that "life is what you make it."

Maybe religion is what you make it too.

Phoebus_Apollo
18-Jan-06, 20:22
I have leanings towards Nietzsche....

Gleber2
18-Jan-06, 20:28
I have leanings towards Nietzsche....

Ye'd better watch boy,or they'll be callan ye a Nazi for believan Neitzche.

porshiepoo
18-Jan-06, 21:00
I believe in life after death, I believe in Jesus, just not as he's portrayed in the bible, which I believe is a load of nonsense put together to hope religious fear will keep people in check. I believe Jesus was a normal man with healing hands and was crucified for that.
I believe in ghosts. I believe they're spirits that have passed over but are stuck in limbo for reasons of their own.
I believe some people have the ability to talk to spirits that have passed over, unfortunately i'm not one of them.
I believe religion has a place for any person that wants it, I believe any person has a right to it - whatever their race - however I believe murder in the name of religion is never carried out for that reason no matter what the claim.

However, I don't consider myself religious.

Pink Lippy
18-Jan-06, 21:28
What a to do,
On religion from poo,
What a mish mash,
Of opinions she's trashed.

She has lots of her own,
So far largely unsown,
By men of the church,
Upon their high perch.

She thinks quite alone,
And produces a tome,
Lots of belief,
Yet no facts to bequeath.

Yer religious,
Ye have faith,
Ye'll go a long way babe. :)

porshiepoo
18-Jan-06, 21:33
Jeepers, it comes to something when my replies are inciting poetry.
See, my opinions aren't that useless after all! ;)

paris
18-Jan-06, 22:26
I believe I'm classed as an atheist, a non believer, but i do believe in the after-life. I will probably come back as a maggot. !

Bobinovich
18-Jan-06, 22:41
Yep, another athiest here. Had religion shoved down me as a child and promise not to do it to either of my children. They'll get basic religious teachings at school and if they choose to believe then that's their choice.

I also believe religion has caused too much death and conflict - so much for preaching peace, love and tolerance for your fellow man (which I understand is the basis of most religions isn't it?)

melted_wellie
19-Jan-06, 00:13
In the beginning there was nothing,Then the Lord said "Let There Be Light". And there was still nothing,but at least you could see it.

JAWS
19-Jan-06, 00:46
I have no strongly held beliefs.

I have been led to believe that if that is the case I should shut up and go away, so I will, to save others distress. :p

Gleber2
19-Jan-06, 01:32
Tush tush and then again tush.If that's your attitude Jaws,then ye are not the man I took ye to be.

JAWS
19-Jan-06, 02:54
I was always taught to be very wary in certian circumstances to avoid, at all costs, discussing Religion, Politics or Football because it caused fights.

I think mummy mentioned something about the demon drink, but her speech was very slurred at the time and she seemed to be looking for something on the floor. :eyes

JAWS
19-Jan-06, 02:59
OK, I'll cough.

I am actually a Confirmed and very active member of the Devout and Absolute Faith of Cowardice.

Now I will never again be able to use the excuse that I slipped on my behind painting Parking Restrictions. :p

scotsboy
19-Jan-06, 10:59
Teddybear wrote[quote]So what makes u think its more political than religious based.[/unquote]

I'll turn the question around, what makes you think it is religion more than politics? Bear in mind that all religions are have been created by man, who also wrote the books (whether claiming them to be tyhe direct word of God or not), the same being also created many social and political structures, it could be argued that religion is just another one of those. Looking at certain religions they are clearly political in structure.
The troubles in Northern Ireland were nothing to do with religion. In fact tell me one of a war that is purley religous based - you could't even say the Battle of the Boyne was, it was purely political.

Tymey
19-Jan-06, 12:12
The troubles in Northern Ireland were nothing to do with religion.

Having grown up in Northern Ireland I would say it depends whose version of history you read.

scotsboy
19-Jan-06, 12:22
Enlighten me.......

squidge
19-Jan-06, 12:28
It appears to me that wars have all been about power - religion is a tool that that those in power use to encourage ordinary folk to support them and we are foolish ienough to be caught up by it.

Tymey
19-Jan-06, 12:29
For instance the Ulster Plantation in the 1600s. Some schools emphasise that it was 3 main branches of Protestantism and some minor ones which were "planted." Others emphasise the nationalities and occupations of those who were moved into the province of Ulster....

tisme
19-Jan-06, 13:02
I am a non believer also. I was brought up in a religious household, and chucked out to Sunday school every week, whilst my father sat in the pub!! I remember when I got when married 18 years ago in a registrar office there was a particular guest invited who couldn't attend, and I later found out she had said 'it doesn't matter coz it's not a real wedding anyway coz it's not in a church'. What a load of rubbish, marriage has nothing to do with god or Jesus, it's about 2 people who want to spend the rest of their lives together. Ironically that same person had the big church wedding, and has since divorced, so much for the blessing of God. I also have a 16 year old, who has been brought up in a religion free home. She believes in evolution, is a very well mannered, bright child - who if chooses to turn to religion will do so through her own choice and not because she was threatened by Hell and eternal damnation as a child if she did not believe.

hell raizer
19-Jan-06, 19:27
i do belive in some things but not alot some people do think there is a god but i aint to sure. :confused:

teddybear1873
19-Jan-06, 19:51
It appears to me that wars have all been about power - religion is a tool that that those in power use to encourage ordinary folk to support them and we are foolish ienough to be caught up by it.
thank u Squidge, your spot on there...Religion is a tool thats used wrong.I know wars are political but i cant understand why they bring religion in to it..mayb they should just have 1 religion and thats it lol.

JAWS
19-Jan-06, 20:43
For instance the Ulster Plantation in the 1600s. Some schools emphasise that it was 3 main branches of Protestantism and some minor ones which were "planted." Others emphasise the nationalities and occupations of those who were moved into the province of Ulster....
But that was yet another case of Religion being used for Political reasons.

The Protestant William of Orange had the Blessings and support of the Pope.
And for those who find that unbelievable there were, from the Pope's point of view, very good reasons.

I'm not sure of exactly why but the Pope considered that the Catholic Louis, King of France was becoming too powerful by far.

In view of the fact that the Catholic King James had the support of Louis in his attempt the regain the British Throne via Ireland, and presumably become a stong ally of Louis thereafter, was a possibility the Pope was not willing to risk.

A Protestant King on the British Throne was far less of a problem than a Catholic King of France who had become over powerful.

I'm not sure without checking but I seem to think that this was towards the end of the period where the most powerful thug of a Ruler in Europe just popped over to Rome, kicked the current Pope out and put in his place a Pope who would do his bidding.
The position of Pope around that time often had little to do with his Religious or Moral behaviour but more on the power of rulers who wanted him there.

Putting it bluntly, the position of Pontiff had become a political toy and Religion was not allowed to enter into the equation. Religion was just a political pawn in their power stuggles.

Probably the modern equivalent would be if the Archbishop of Canterbury were replace with each change of Government here.
That is always bearing in mind that Religion at that time was a very useful tool to help keep the masses under control.

The more modern history of Ireland I am staying well away from.
It manages quite to cause enough trouble itself without my delicate touch.