E.U. migrants

[landmarker]

There is a meeting of the relevant ministers going on in Brussels to decide whether the pre May '04 member states should now allow migrants from the new countries a right to enter and work in countries like Germany and France. You may remember, only Britain, Sweden and Ireland allowed people from new members like Poland, Latvia, Lithuania & the Czech Republic the right to enter and work.

Apparently there is 'blood on the carpet' at this meeting and much tough negotiating is being done, under the auspice of a Czech chairman !

Our Government estimated about thirteen thousand would arrive here in the first year. In the intervening twenty four months approximately one hundred and seventy two thousand migrants have arrived in this country and the vast majority have found jobs. That is quite a difference. I wonder who did the estimate.

Ireland has received roughly eighty thousand new workers and Sweden a similar number.

I think it is only right and proper that the founders of the E.U. ie. French , Germany, Belgium etc. should also allow free movement. Enlargement was as much their idea as anyone elses wasn't it?

Do you have a view? Our economy, for now, obviously seems to need these people.

I occasionally wonder how long it takes to get hold of a plumber in Riga,
or a carpenter in Kracow !! Ho-hum.

[gleeber]

My concerns are that the coming together of nations who only 50 years ago were at eachothers throats is going to be scuppered by bigots and racists and nationalists.
The only way that future generations of our children will be able to live in peace and harmony will be if ordinary people start fighting back against the fears of the above mentioned drivelmongers and find a way to integrate with our neighbours. There is no other way.

[landmarker]

My concerns are that the coming together of nations who only 50 years ago were at eachothers throats is going to be scuppered by bigots and racists and nationalists.
The only way that future generations of our children will be able to live in peace and harmony will be if ordinary people start fighting back against the fears of the above mentioned drivelmongers and find a way to integrate with our neighbours. There is no other way.

Here Here! (or is it hear hear ? - I have never written it down before)
I am all for more integration with our neighbours.
I fear you may have seized the wrong end of the stick.
Or perhaps this forum is making me paranoid.

[gleeber]

I fear you may have seized the wrong end of the stick.
Or perhaps this forum is making me paranoid.
I havnt got a stick in my hand and the forum will not make you paranoid without your permission.

[squidge]

Of course countries like Germany and France should allow people to move and work freely there. Its a European Union - the right exists they had no business denying people that right.

You are absolutely right Landmarker to say that our economy just now needs migrant workers and we have explored that on other threads. People find Britain an attractive place for a whole range of reasons but may also find France or Germany as attractive and they should be given the chance to find out.

[jjc]

My understanding of the legislation is that a citizen of any EU member state has the right to reside in another member state for a period of six months. If they wish to stay longer then they must be economically self-sufficent. If they wish to work in a particular state for longer than three months requires a residence permit from the national authorities. If they continue to live in a member state for a period of three years then they acquire a permanent right of residence.

However, the accession treaty allows the 15 existing members to continue to apply their own migration legislation until ‘at least’ 2006. Being as we have now reached 2006, I can well imagine that there is a heated discussion to determine just what ‘at least’ might mean.

That said Landmarker, I can’t find any information on the meeting you refer to. Can you provide a link?

Anyway, I agree – it is only right and proper that all member states come into line with the existing legislation.


Our Government estimated about thirteen thousand would arrive here in the first year. In the intervening twenty four months approximately one hundred and seventy two thousand migrants have arrived in this country and the vast majority have found jobs. That is quite a difference. I wonder who did the estimate. Acutally, an estimated 40% of those migrants were already in the country – it’s just that they were able to apply for longer work-permits (and permanent residency after three years) under the new legislation. The remaining 60% is obviously still a tad higher than the government estimate. I don’t really care that it is, but it is.

[golach]

Of course countries like Germany and France should allow people to move and work freely there. Its a European Union - the right exists they had no business denying people that right.

You are absolutely right Landmarker to say that our economy just now needs migrant workers and we have explored that on other threads. People find Britain an attractive place for a whole range of reasons but may also find France or Germany as attractive and they should be given the chance to find out.
With you all the way here Squidge, its the EU rules, we are stuck with it.
I recently worked for a short time with Sainsburys for a wee P/t job till get away from Mrs G, but thats another story.
At my induction to Sainsburys, there were two Polish Girls, one lassie from Hong Kong, chinese obviously, a Ghanan laddie, a 17 year old laddie from Bathgate & me. Now that was a right mix, but we all got on well and co-operated at the team building exercises ( why do they have these silly games?). Sadly I gave the job up, it did not suit me, but the others are still there.
Recently I have noticed that all the pamphlet and door to door deliveries are being done by Eastern Europeans, and I hear more and more Eastern European accents in the street on the buses, I at the moment see nothing wrong with this.....but in the future??????

[JAWS]

There is nothing new about Eastern Europeans working in this Country, there have been many here for decades.

My own father used to work with numerous people from Poland and that was in the 1950s.
A former colleague's wife had parents from the Ukraine.
A friend of my first wife was called Hrywnak, her father was also from the Ukraine.
Both of those families have been here for over 50 years.

I see no reason whatsoever why we should stop them from coming here.
If we allow free access for people from the EU Countries prior to the Enlargement then I see no reason to treat the new Countries any differently.

Does anybody know if they have placed any restrictions on British people going to their Countries? I've never heard of any information either way.

[landmarker]

That said Landmarker, I can’t find any information on the meeting you refer to. Can you provide a link?

.

B.B.C. radio 4. 'Today' programme yesterday.
I dont get much of my info from the net.

[JAWS]

My concerns are that the coming together of nations who only 50 years ago were at eachothers throats is going to be scuppered by bigots and racists and nationalists.
The only way that future generations of our children will be able to live in peace and harmony will be if ordinary people start fighting back against the fears of the above mentioned drivelmongers and find a way to integrate with our neighbours. There is no other way.

In the last 50 years I can remember many occasions on which the tanks have rolled and indeed been put to use in Eastern Europe.
At the time of the Berlin Wall East and West squared up and the tanks faced each other, fully armed and with engines running.

The biggest problem was that both sides were fearful of making any move at all because even a move backward could have been misunderstood.
Had that happened and some twitchy Ivan, Tommy or Wilbur had decided to get their shot in first and worry later then I don't think, with the tensions at that time, anybody would have hesitated, everybody would have waded in.
And all that without a squeak from any bigot, racist or Nationalist.
The whole thing took place in the middle of Germany.

[Abdullah]

Since WW2 Britain has become one of the richest nations in the world.

The European Union is a leveler.

Those poorer countries will have a higher standard of living, the richer will have a lower standard of living.

This will manifest itself in foreign holidays and more.

Since Blair came to office, he has increased the pace of this transition to a frenzy.

Then.....never mind the UN or any other organisation he has been identified with.

The fact that HE and he alone proposed the post of a permanent president of the EU.....

....that's where he is headed.

After what he has done to Britain, he will walk into the post with consumate ease.

The bottom line being, he sold his country for his own gratification.

[landmarker]

Since WW2 Britain has become one of the richest nations in the world.

The European Union is a leveler.

Those poorer countries will have a higher standard of living, the richer will have a lower standard of living.

This will manifest itself in foreign holidays and more.

Since Blair came to office, he has increased the pace of this transition to a frenzy.

Then.....never mind the UN or any other organisation he has been identified with.

The fact that HE and he alone proposed the post of a permanent president of the EU.....

....that's where he is headed.

After what he has done to Britain, he will walk into the post with consumate ease.

The bottom line being, he sold his country for his own gratification.

The only thing I disagree with here is the first sentence. I'd say the wealth has increased since the mid-eighties, with a hiccup in the early nineties. Governance of Britain in the late forties/early fifites/sixties and seventies was all about management of a steady decline in my opinion - and I for one was all the happier for it. Thatcher & Blair can stuff their booms where the sun does not shine. I'd like my old country back please. What I have now is a hotch potch of simultaneously evolving cultures on divergent paths.

The EU is a 'leveller' of sorts, though I prefered the seventeenth century kind.Though Blair will never preside over it if the Franco-German axis continues to rule the roost.

[Abdullah]

Within weeks of getting into office, Blair invited Mrs. Thatcher round for a cosy chat, and some tips on how to run the country. He's been implementing Tory policies ever since.