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justine
23-Oct-08, 13:36
Now we have had threads on this subject before, but i now have to say that this is going to turn to madness.[disgust]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7684810.stm

Im sorry but i think this is taking too far fort he kids and the parents to deal with. You start teaching young children the likes of this and you could end up with children maybe using the knowledge to make claims of abuse. or use it to their own advantages.
Would you allow your 5 yr old to sit and be taught sex education whilst they are supposed to be learning how to spell their own names and learning the times table.
This is just coming out in england but how long will it take to arrive here in Scotland...[disgust]

sweetpea
23-Oct-08, 14:11
Em, not sure about this. Personally I think too much pressure is on teachers to do the job of parents but that's probably because parents don't. It doesn't say they will be taught about sex, it mentions the parts of the body and relationships. I think relationships is a good thing to teach kids because of the amount of young people these days who don't know how to have them. I wouldn't be a teacher for any amount of money.

Rheghead
23-Oct-08, 14:25
If it is done appropriately, how can education of any kind be harmful? If parents are uncomfortable with what is being taught then perhaps it is them that need to go back to school and catch up....

henry20
23-Oct-08, 14:36
You start teaching young children the likes of this and you could end up with children maybe using the knowledge to make claims of abuse.

Maybe the opposite could be said? If children were more aware of the issue, they would be more inclined to tell people if they were being abused?

I'm not sure where I stand on this - I can see both good and bad with the idea, but at the same time, are children taught enough about it at home for it not to be needed at school?

mccaugm
23-Oct-08, 14:40
I think its a good idea, the UK has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in the EU. In other parts of the EU, children are taught about relationships at a much earlier age and their rate of teen pregnancy is much much lower. I think the sooner they are taught the better. For once I agree with the so called "Nanny State" in this instance.

TBH
23-Oct-08, 15:15
I think its a good idea, the UK has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in the EU. In other parts of the EU, children are taught about relationships at a much earlier age and their rate of teen pregnancy is much much lower. I think the sooner they are taught the better. For once I agree with the so called "Nanny State" in this instance.Why has the rate of teenage pregnancies gone up. That is the question they need to address rather than papering over the cracks with this garbage.

wifie
23-Oct-08, 15:30
PSHE - have they not spelt it wrong?

Tilter
23-Oct-08, 15:30
Why has the rate of teenage pregnancies gone up.

Um - cos you get benefits and a house to live in these days? (Instead of being kicked out by your dad and being forced to give the baby up for adoption?)

Um - you're going nowhere and it's a way of upping your self-esteem and getting much needed attention?

I could go on, but along with Rheghead, I think any education, appropriately done, must be for the good so I've no problem with this being done in primary schools.

Fluff
23-Oct-08, 15:33
When they talk about teaching them sex education I am guessing people normally think they are going to teach them all about sex etc.. Maybe if we start young enough and teach kids to respect themselves and that sex is best in a relationship. Or maybe we should start to teach them that no sex is also ok and that not everyone is doing it lol

TBH
23-Oct-08, 15:34
Um - cos you get benefits and a house to live in these days? (Instead of being kicked out by your dad and being forced to give the baby up for adoption?)

Um - you're going nowhere and it's a way of upping your self-esteem and getting much needed attention?

I could go on, but along with Rheghead, I think any education, appropriately done, must be for the good so I've no problem with this being done in primary schools.Um - You used to get more benefits years ago than you do nowadays so why has the pregnancy rate shot up, it's not as simple as aquiring a house.

balto
23-Oct-08, 15:37
i think this is wrong, why cant we let kids be kids especially a 5 year old, i find it hard enough that my 8 year old gets living and growing. i understand tabout the teenage pregnancies, but do they really have to start them of so early, my god how many 5 years olds know about sex.

TBH
23-Oct-08, 15:49
i think this is wrong, why cant we let kids be kids especially a 5 year old, i find it hard enough that my 8 year old gets living and growing. i understand tabout the teenage pregnancies, but do they really have to start them of so early, my god how many 5 years olds know about sex.The government in whatever guise cannot let children just be children. They are compeled to have have children taught about sex before they are ready and able to understand what it's all about.
What now, are they going to lower the age of concent which wouldn't surprise me when they came up with the idea of giving girls as young as twelve the morning after pill with no requirement for the permission of the parent.

balto
23-Oct-08, 15:51
The government in whatever guise cannot let children just be children. They are compeled to have have children taught about sex before they are ready and able to understand what it's all about.
What now, are they going to lower the age of concent which wouldn't surprise me when they came up with the idea of giving girls as young as twelve the morning after pill with no requirement for the permission of the parent.
hope that never happens, my god i doubt someone of 16 is really mature enough to have a sexual relelationsip.

hotrod4
23-Oct-08, 16:05
I believe that if kids Know more about it they would be less likely to be abused. If you read any stories from people that were abused they will state that they didnt know what was going on and accepted it. If the kids know what it is all about then they will know its wrong.
I do feel 5 is a bit young I would go for about 8. My youngest is 5 and I cant imagine him grasping the subject.
Maybe as an ultimatum they should warn kids of that age about "strangers" and mention that if anybody does tries to anything to you that you dont understand then tell a Teacher. That way the kids can keep their innocence that little bit longer. I know its a parents job to do this but what if its a family member.
All my kids have been taught about Strangers etc, but at least if the school did it too it would cover all angles.

TBH
23-Oct-08, 16:06
Kids are great at forming relationships, generations of them have managed it without any need to have it explained to them.
They are usually the least prejudiced when it comes to race. As a wise man once said, "the colour of someones skin has as much relevance as the colour of their eyes", children know this. Leave the kids alone, it's the adults that need to learn about relationships, tolerance and understanding.

wifie
23-Oct-08, 16:07
Kids are great at forming relationships, generations of them have managed it without any need to have it explained to them.
They are usually the least prejudiced when it comes to race. As a wise man once said, "the colour of someones skin has as much relevance as the colour of their eyes", children know this. Leave the kids alone, it's the adults that need to learn about relationships, tolerance and understanding.

Bang on the money TBH!

justine
23-Oct-08, 16:59
It mentions about dropping the age for sex education from 16 to eleven, which i think is appropriate as there seems to be more 12-13 yr olds getting pregnant, but children as young as five, :eek:
why the heck do they need to know about adult stuff. Basic sex education for teens is acceptable but the fact that it has been shown that primary schools are lacking in alot of other grades, eg, spelling, maths, writing then why batter the childrens heads with this cr*p.

Many parents find it very hard to talk to their teens about sex so how are they supposed to help the teachers by explaining it to a child that is five and above and has no understanding of what we are telling them.

its madness.:mad:

Rheghead
23-Oct-08, 17:10
That way the kids can keep their innocence that little bit longer.

Kids being innocent? Can it be possible?:confused

I can remember a few things way back then and I can assure you there is nothing innocent about the activities of kids.

Murdina Bug
23-Oct-08, 17:11
Well, I think it's a good idea! Scotland does not have any curriculum for this so it is very unlikely this is going to be extended any time soon so all those against it can calm down!

I think it is a good idea and quite appropriate to start talking about relationships with 5 year olds - they have already stated everything will be age-appropriate - they are NOT about to tell primary ones how to put on a condom for example!! I think what they are trying to do is bring in a standardised framework so that there is equality throughout the teaching of the subject - I guess that at best some kids are getting the basic biological facts and, at worst case, no education at all.

From personal experience, in Primary 7 we were split into boys and girls in separate classrooms and the girls got a talk on 'periods'. The boys got nothing. It was so vague that I remember asking a question along the lines of 'but, how do you know when you are pregnant then?' - I don't think I got a straight answer but I do remember feeling slightly humilitated at the response and the look I got in return from the 'nurse'. In High School basic human biology was covered in 2 diagrams in the same lesson as biology of other animals. Not even interesting enough to raise a snigger from the class!

Now I must say this was some years ago and I don't know how sex education is today, but imagine if those are the only facts you get and you don't have the kind of parent that can talk about this. Now, kids may be good at forming relationships but some are actually too open and appropriate education can go a long way to helping them form boundaries in life so that they know they have the right to say no, the confidence to resist peer pressure and the ability to develop self esteem. If you don't think your kid could benefit from that then I think you are wrong. Bravo to you if you think that you are covering the topic satisfactorily at home but your kids may not agree!

Ash
23-Oct-08, 17:21
i think aslong as they dont use words that are two graphic whats the harm my 4 and a half year old already asks questions... and to a certain extent ive explained what i can

hotrod4
23-Oct-08, 17:30
i think aslong as they dont use words that are two graphic whats the harm my 4 and a half year old already asks questions... and to a certain extent ive explained what i can

What yoo mean like "Janet and John do porn" ?[lol]

Ash
23-Oct-08, 17:34
What yoo mean like "Janet and John do porn" ?[lol]


haha no :Razz

lady penelope
23-Oct-08, 17:36
Children will always ask questions, age appropriate answers are what is needed and in context of the childs question.
The tv, internet and peers all change our childrens views so if schools provide the truth it can only be a good thing.
Most 10 year olds think they know everything anyway, and if they don't some of their peers will!

If you don't want your child to learn about something, you can withhold them from the lesson.

Sapphire2803
23-Oct-08, 17:45
Children as young as 5 are curious, they want to know where babies come from and quite often they also want to know how they got there. I can't see any problem with telling them that babies come from their Mummy's tummy and that it got there because the Mummy and Daddy had a special kind of cuddle (or something like that).
That's pretty much what I told my kids and as they got older, the explanation got more technical. They knew all about it before they had sex education at school, mainly because I wanted them to know the truth. I didn't want them to believe the misinformed rumours in the playground. My son is 14, he knows the ins and outs of sex (pun intended) and all about STIs and also what his responsibilities are. It has been explained to him that a girl telling him that she is on the pill doesn't always make it true and that not only could that get him an STI, it sould also lead to 18 years (or more) of paying through the nose for a child that he may not necessarily ever be allowed to meet. I think that is necessary information and there's never been any embarrassment about it because we've always talked openly.
As for children being innocent, why does healthy curiosity mean that they are not innocent?
I remember as a child in the 70's, aged 6 we were playing "You show me yours and I'll show you mine" It was not a loss of innocence, it was just plain old curiosity. Especially for those of us who didn't have siblings.

This attitiude of "Children don't need to know" is what causes half the trouble. They DO need to know and if we don't tell them, then they'll just go off and find out for themselves.

TBH
23-Oct-08, 17:46
Children will always ask questions, age appropriate answers are what is needed and in context of the childs question.
The tv, internet and peers all change our childrens views so if schools provide the truth it can only be a good thing.
Most 10 year olds think they know everything anyway, and if they don't some of their peers will!

If you don't want your child to learn about something, you can withhold them from the lesson.

You would have recognised my kids. They would be the ones that were quite happy being kids, not the ones worrying if they remembered to take their contraceptive pill or wondering if boyfriend would still respect them if they let him have sex with them.

George Brims
23-Oct-08, 19:39
This whole issue came up in the US presidential campaign a couple of weeks ago. The McCain people ran an add ranting about how Obama was going to force sex education on 5 year olds. In fact all he had done was vote for a budget item for education that included the basic stuff (which my kids were taught at around that age) about what is appropriate touching by an adult and what is not. There's not really much more a kid of 5 needs to be told, unless they ask.

However the "birds and bees" level of education is having to be moved to an earlier age because so many kids are hitting puberty so much younger nowadays.

Whitewater
23-Oct-08, 21:45
If it is done appropriately, how can education of any kind be harmful? If parents are uncomfortable with what is being taught then perhaps it is them that need to go back to school and catch up....

I agree with Rheghead on this. I remember the dark old days at school when I was young, all you learned was from your peers and most of that turned out to be rubbish.

sweetpea
23-Oct-08, 21:56
If only parents would be ordered by law to provide their kids with education. It would make the jobs of all paid carers including teachers, so much easier. I see them at the other end when they are teenagers and it's so obvious that all the early years stuff has been missing and they have had a bad start in life. I reckon it's doing more harm than good to ignore life and pretend they don't need to know things until they are older.