View Full Version : Sitting here half cut and thinking...........
Rampant consumerism, as far as I can see is a result of all the deregulation of credit introduced by Thatcher and continued by Gordon Brown.
Do many people honestly think ahead and consider the effects of repayments if they were to lose a job which seems perfectly safe at the moment....and currently means they can afford the repayments?
Does anyone live their lives expecting to be thrown on the dole tomorrow?
Maybe they should.....but how many do.....and how many would have expected the crisis we have now, with even bank employees, with concessionary mortgage rates losing their jobs?
At the end of the day, a Government which controls the minutiae of life for the inhabitants of the UK for "their own good", seems to have been unaware of the fact that a population which will happily smoke, drink and eat the wrong kind of food to excess without, in thei government's opinion, some measure of control, and consequently to their own detriment, couldn't see far enough ahead to realise that the result of allowing easy credit would mean vast swathes of society taking advantage of it.
Strikes me that the government has to bear the blame for instituting/continuing policies which have made the UK more vulnerable than necessary to the global meltdown. After all, we are either capable of deciding what is best for us or we are not...it isn't a case of "we can't trust the population not to smoke, drink or eat too much..........but we can trust them not to go wild when every bank and store are offering extremely easy (not to say irresponsible) credit levels!
I have been reading warnings of just this state of affairs on the internet for months........maybe the Government wants to trawl the internet rather than relying on advisors with, it appears, little knowledge of what is happening on the ground.
Oddquine you admit to sitting writin yer opener here half-cut but I find some sense in it. I think the problem is the people makin the decisions and ergo in charge of the country probably live a very different life to the vast majority of the constituents they represent so are therefore not qualified to be so. Of course they want us to stop eatin the wrong things, smokin and drinkin cos that is costing them money. The easy lends were makin big bucks but now it is gonna cost them dear. Ultimately tho who will end up payin? The man on the street of course - he never wins.
The first thought that popped into my head this morning was about credit card debt! Not mine, as I only have one credit card and only use it in an emergency. That's not meant to sound smug - I just know that if I started using cards for things I don't need, I'd go on and on and ON! :mad: It can be so easy to see money available on credit card as just 'free' money to spend on whatever you fancy.
Just the other week my credit card company (my bank) hurled another £1,000 of credit (i.e. the chance to rack up more debt) in my direction at the same time my bank (HBOS) offered me a loan of £3,500 (another chance for debt). I don't want -or need -either, but I can see how I could be tempted so that I could have things I'd like but know I can't afford.
Anyway, I resisted ;) but it got me to thinking about folk who have a lot of credit card debt, maybe struggling to make even the minimum repayments as it is, and making no inroads at all onto the debt. As things get tougher, these repayments will be come unmanageable for many people.
I've a bad feeling that this will be the next major problem to surface.
There has been so much irresponsible lending, but thoughtless borrowing as well. Society has changed so that shopping's become a 'leisure activity' and people seemingly must have 'must haves' which they don't need and can't afford -fuelled by the media and the cult of celebrity. People aren't seen to be glamorous or interesting if they live within their income, especially if it's a modest one.
The celebs and other rich people will be very little affected by the current financial turmoil, but the folk who have emulated their lifestyle without the money to fund it are likely to find themselves in very deep trouble.
Will this change us all? I'd like to think it will, and we'd become less greedy as a society. The statements coming out from a number of sources suggesting this might be a short and shallow recession, after which we can all get back to shopping again, tend to make me doubt it. Our economy depends on consumerism after all.
I do hope that the banks will use some of the money that we have pumped into them to help small businesses navigate the stormy waters we're in.
My OH and I had a business that went bust in the last recession. The bank, so willing to provide an umbrella for a sunny day, were pretty quick to remove it when the rain came on. As partners (not a limited company) we were personally liable, lost everything we had, and had to start all over again in our 40s.
It was such a dreadful experience. My sympathies are with anyone struggling to keep a small business afloat right now. These are the people the banks should be lending to, imo.
I would love to go on at length about the banking system, the politicians etc., but I am too tired. No one is listening anyway. It is all politics and designed to give Britain the ups and downs of boom and bust. That is what keeps politicians and the "top" people who make these decisions at the top; someone has to.....
A few days ago my bank phoned me too and wanted me to take a loan of £5000 - "no questions asked" - now what is all that about? I don't take loans, haven't been in the habit of taking loans, have never taken a loan with them before so why would I want one now?
To bail them out of course! Not all by myself (see I haven't lost my sense of humour) and they know that there are people out there with little common sense who will jump at the chance of having a holiday in the sun "I deserve it" or a new car "doesn't everyone?" or yet the latest thing in technology "I'm not a whole person without it" or a new kitchen "well the one I have now is ten years old!" or "I really need it for Christmas".
But I will add that surely we are all responsible for our actions and should take that responsibility seriously. I know it is so easy to live for today and spend, spend, spend but it does not work.
And yes, I know I have gone on at length but I'll keep quiet now and go back to my corner......not promising anything mind!;)
Just a note, our MP John Thurso is fighting the corner for small businesses and I think they are the ones who keep the local economy going by providing jobs and training the next generation. They should be encouraged and aided on all accounts.
I do agree with you, Torvaig, on all points.
What I can't quite get my head round is this....if we have an economy that's dependent on us keeping buying (mostly imported items) and spending on services, if we do all start to live within our means, instead of using credit cards and equity released from property, won't the economy just collapse? Isn't that what's happening now? :confused
We're not hearing quite as much as we were about 'spending our way' out of a recession....
I don't think there is an answer that will suit everyone; we've gone too far....that is what I find scary......the big earners will not want us to stop spending....commonsense has disappeared and we shall just limp from recession to boom and back again in shoes we have had repaired and re-heeled instead of ones costing in the three figures.
Thank God we don't all have inspirations to the high lifestyle or else we would have to take drugs, drink a lot, spend what is not ours, get cancer from too much sun, suffer from self inflicted disorders just to enjoy ourselves.
Oops, I forgot, a lot of us already do whether we can afford it or not....:confused
dont you think its shocking that some scottish councils have lost money coz they had it stashed in banks in iceland i say stashed coz i doubt for one minute it was invested, but at the end of the day who is going to suffer, we are the tax payers, didnt the western isles council get there fingers burnt a few years ago doing the same thing SHOCKING ...
OMG
half cut and thinking that?? i usually just think drivel when i am!!
maybe have a few more and start till think about normal stuff, lek fluff and whether or not you need the toilet!!:lol:
percy toboggan
23-Oct-08, 17:10
I live within my means and thankfully my means are more than adequate for regular living.(at least they have been, but that might be about to change)
Sadly I cannot afford to go a step further and indulge in a dream purchase.
Tough, but I have to accept it for the moment. An effort to rectify the situation in the long term has recently meant a significant loss of funds in the short term. Greed , you might think...in a sense you'd be right. I'm not immune from self-interest.
When it comes to wider society, I think the problem lies with expectation. Many, if not most have seen their expectations rise. People see more material things as progress. It's thrust in their face nightly on the box, and in manipulative advertisements. Add this to fifteen years of relative prosperity, historically low interest rates, short memories and hugely inflated house prices you have the recipe for a personal debt catastrophe.
At the end of the day it is about individual responsibility, and in the future a rather better regulated system of credit advances. I remember the days when any purchase on H.P. (hire-purchase) required a substantial deposit. Perhaps we should return to those practices, although general growth and any consumer led recovery will be delayed.
rockchick
23-Oct-08, 18:50
My future mother-in-law, who is VERY good with money, gave me some advice while I was still wet behind the ears...it was "if you can't pay cash for something, then you don't need it."
Twenty-plus years later, and her advice has yet to steer me wrong. Other than a mortgage (which is hardly a luxury nowadays) I've never been tempted to get myself into more debt that I can pay off within a month, or two at the most. I pay off my credit card every month, so essentially it is a debit card as I don't pay interest.
Sapphire2803
23-Oct-08, 18:53
My future mother-in-law, who is VERY good with money, gave me some advice while I was still wet behind the ears...it was "if you can't pay cash for something, then you don't need it."
Twenty-plus years later, and her advice has yet to steer me wrong. Other than a mortgage (which is hardly a luxury nowadays) I've never been tempted to get myself into more debt that I can pay off within a month, or two at the most. I pay off my credit card every month, so essentially it is a debit card as I don't pay interest.
Sapph's tip of the day #369.1
I do hope you have a cashback credit card then. If not... you should :)
My future mother-in-law, who is VERY good with money, gave me some advice while I was still wet behind the ears...it was "if you can't pay cash for something, then you don't need it."
Twenty-plus years later, and her advice has yet to steer me wrong. Other than a mortgage (which is hardly a luxury nowadays) I've never been tempted to get myself into more debt that I can pay off within a month, or two at the most. I pay off my credit card every month, so essentially it is a debit card as I don't pay interest.
I think that is very good advice. Unfortunately, in this day and age, too many people try to keep up with the Joneses and get themselves into debt buying what they don't really need and can't afford. I'd rather do without and be able to sleep at night.
OK, I've been thinking an' all. If we export so many thousand tonnes of meat to the continent and we import almost the same as many thousand tonnes of meat from the continent, why can't we just eat what we export and save all the bother?:confused
OK, I've been thinking an' all. If we export so many thousand tonnes of meat to the continent and we import almost the same as many thousand tonnes of meat from the continent, why can't we just eat what we export and save all the bother?:confused
Oh but that would be too simple - think Forrest Gump! It's like farmers; they grow the food be it animal or vegetable but they still go to the butchers! Not all maybe but most.
Just look at all that goes with exporting and importing; taxes, jobs, transport vehicles and communications. Work for the Customs and Excise and many forms to fill in along with keeping the EU in a job creating mutations of bananas and so on. Plus the Health and Safety guys, the Food Council etc. You wouldn't like to put them out of work would you? ;)
OK, I've been thinking an' all. If we export so many thousand tonnes of meat to the continent and we import almost the same as many thousand tonnes of meat from the continent, why can't we just eat what we export and save all the bother?:confused
This occurs to keep middle men happy and is the result of the WTO objectives of achieving zero tarriffs on trade worldwide. In other words, goods are sold off to oversea's countries with tariffs to protect their burgeoning capitialism and bought back in from those countries without tariff protection back here, to undermine standard living conditions and hard fought for basic conditions in the workplace! Add to this the new NONSENSE of carbon offset trading and it all looks like there is no hope for the planet and the ordinary person at the expense of huge corporations.
They will start taxing us all for breathing soon!
Sitting here, half cut too, I remember the old adage "look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves".....
Sitting here, half cut too, I remember the old adage "look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves".....
I've nothing in the house to get half cut on so can I have half of yours? ;) I'd forgotten that saying MP; a good rule to live by.....instead of just living for today.
For those who are confused about the workings of the Economy there is one thing you must bear in mind, you are in very good company.
The horrible truth of the matter is that Governments, the Heads of National Banks, Financiers and Economists are all exactly the same as you because they do not understand either if the truth is known. They are as likely to get it right or wrong as the pundit who predicts what the winner of next year's Grand National will be. Having studied all that is happening at any given time they then resort to the exact science of guess work. The only difference is that they have either developed or been taught more tricks than you have just as a good poker player or interrogator has learned to “read” the reactions of somebody they are dealing with which you or I would miss. .
That is not a casual dismissal of them as such but, just as with anything else, you cannot accurately predict the future, at least not with any great certainty when there are so many variables.
More often than not the most current figures of recent happenings that they work on, as often as not, eventually prove to be wildly inaccurate. Sometimes it can take a couple of years before the accurate figures become known because sometimes there is a long time lag before all the true facts drift through into the system.
Occasionally, very occasionally, somebody who is no longer in the firing line will tell the truth about why things had gone wrong on some occasion in the distant past, and I don't mean making excuses.
In effect they are like professional gamblers. They study past form, look at the current going and then place the best bet they can on what they hope will be a winner.
If they get it right then they proclaim how wonderful they are and how much they are in control of events, if they are hopelessly wrong then they invariably blame it either on others or on some unforeseen circumstances totally beyond their control.
When things are good it is never somebody’s or something’s doing and when things go horribly wrong it is never because it is their doing.
You've got it there JAWS; this climate of guesswork and targets doesn't work in many situations but "they" don't know that yet. Of course we have to learn from past figures and get an inkling of what may happen but so many of these predictions in so many situations just do not prove to be the case.
I find it so strange that people are given targets in a job where you can't predict what your customer base will want or need.
To be told that you have to reach a certain figure by a certain time selling a certain product is bewildering. What if people don't want it?
We can all see how banks, insurance companies, in fact any financial institution, develop a new product with new criteria and a bewildering array of rates of interest depending on how many sugars you take in your tea and we are supposed to listen to them telling us which is the best product for our own personal situation!
Some years ago now the financial services were given their own code of conduct based on the needs of the customer; "best advice" etc., but it still all hinges on the various targets and commission their salesmen, oops sorry, customer advisers, financial experts etc., want to earn (whether for themselves or for their company and then rewarded) regardless of what the customer actually needs. That can't be right.
So what happens now? Do all the customers who were sold mortgages, loans etc., way beyond their means just to generate business, meet targets, earn commission, have the right to sue these companies? What is the point of having these codes of conduct if they are not adhered to or at the very least used to service the customer to their best advantage?
How long do we have to suffer the hallucinations of big businesses and governments who have lost the plot? The allocation of our hard-earned taxes etc., seriously needs to be reviewed, with common sense at the forefront. Monetary rewards way beyond salaries should be stopped immediately and the wages/salaries of our most important servants in all quarters be adjusted to their importance to society, not how much they can earn for those living a lifestyle which is offensive to what should now be a civilised society.
I began to think that the plot was well lost in the mid nineties when the bank I worked for advertised personal loan reductions as a SALE of personal loans!
To the average punter a Sale equates to a bargain.....but linking debt and bargain shows a cynical disregard for the truth.
Didn't stay long after that, as I couldn't get my head round selling debt as if it was nothing more than an overstocked bit of clothing....(and I never met my targets anyway!)
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