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hotrod4
19-Oct-08, 11:43
Went to Inversnekie this week and was shocked at what I found.
Went to Burger King and was served by a Polish girl who got my order way wrong because she couldnt grasp the English language.
headed to Primark where I was served by another polish girl.
headed to Pundstretchers and once again was served by a pole.
Visited poundland and same again was served by another pole!
Finally had something to eat at Morrisons and was served by a Nigerian and then had my food served by yet another pole!
Bought some groceries and way and behold yet another pole served me!!

Maybe they should rename the "eastgate" the Eastern european gate!

I'm all for integration but at what cost? I wasnt served by a local throughout my whole shopping trip. I cant understand how an employer can give someone a job if they can barely speak our language. How does the interview take place? With a translator?

With unemployment reaching 2 million why are business' still employing foreigners over locals?
They have a right to live and work here like the locals but why are they getting preferential treatment over locals? I would think that they should take priority over foreign nationals but that would be racism right! But the other way round its being "PC".????

It is an absolute sham the way this country is going :(

Tristan
19-Oct-08, 11:46
Some of the jobs you described sound like minimum wage jobs. Any employer will want the best staff, so I can only assume that they were the best (or only) applicants - which says a lot.

_Ju_
19-Oct-08, 11:54
Foreigners are employed because too many nationals prefer being paid not to work. Doh!

golach
19-Oct-08, 11:54
I don't think we are too Multi Cultural, if we were not, how would I be able to enjoy Hungarian Goulash, Indian, Thai and Bangladeshi Curries, Italian Pizza's and Mexican tortilla's,Chinese Chop Suey, even Reubens Sandwiches [lol]

stansmith
19-Oct-08, 12:17
So who is going to do these jobs if the immigrants don't. I would tell people on the social take these jobs or go without.

hotrod4
19-Oct-08, 12:37
So who is going to do these jobs if the immigrants don't. I would tell people on the social take these jobs or go without.

Who is to say that locals on the social never applied for the jobs?
Its too easy to blame people on the social but if they get turned down for johnny foreigner what hope have they?
It just doesnt make sense that employers employ people with limited english but turn down locals because they arent qualified!!!

We are far too liberal.

hotrod4
19-Oct-08, 12:38
I don't think we are too Multi Cultural, if we were not, how would I be able to enjoy Hungarian Goulash, Indian, Thai and Bangladeshi Curries, Italian Pizza's and Mexican tortilla's,Chinese Chop Suey, even Reubens Sandwiches [lol]

Dont mind Indian food but Goulash is just plain stinking and wrong on so many levels!!! [lol]

Tristan
19-Oct-08, 13:51
Who is to say that locals on the social never applied for the jobs?
Its too easy to blame people on the social but if they get turned down for johnny foreigner what hope have they?
It just doesnt make sense that employers employ people with limited english but turn down locals because they arent qualified!!!

We are far too liberal.

Most employers want to succeed. I can't see why they would not have chosen the best applicant.

hotrod4
19-Oct-08, 13:54
Most employers want to succeed. I can't see why they would not have chosen the best applicant.

Not all the time.
Alot of companies (larger ones) insist on having a certain percentage of ethinic employees.
If you were up against a west indian for example and they need another one for their qouta, the west indian would get the job not you even if you can speak english and they cant!

percy toboggan
19-Oct-08, 14:00
Last night television news was accompanied by clips of a London street. Thronged with people, few of them with a Cockney Grandad.Whilst the ethnic make up did not make me feel queasy I was offended.

It takes a lot to offend me. About a million in the last ten years would do it.

It seems the world has turned up on my doorstep without so much as a by your leave. No manifesto proposals, no consultation, no nowt.

The item was in connection with the admirable Phil Woolas, one of a rare breed...for he is a Government Minister who seems to know what the broad mass of people want him to do. Curb immigration from outside the European Union to an absolute minimum.

Hotrod - a nation cannot be 'too' multi-cultural...it's either multi-cultural or it isn't. We need a multi ethnic mono culture with those who wish to retain links with their homeland in the form of worship and dress to be allowed to do so without pushing it into the mainstream and expecting 'British' culture to bend in acommodation. For instance multiple translation of council notices etc. End it...if you're upset or dis-advantaged learn English or take a hike.

Tristan
19-Oct-08, 14:01
Not all the time.
Alot of companies (larger ones) insist on having a certain percentage of ethinic employees.
If you were up against a west indian for example and they need another one for their qouta, the west indian would get the job not you even if you can speak english and they cant!

I am surprised and disappointed that "positive discrimination" is still going on. I thought most counties realised it was not a great idea years ago.

rockchick
19-Oct-08, 14:10
Unfortunately, most minimum wage jobs do not pay enough to make it worthwhile to come off benefits. People without permanent residency here are not entitled to benefits, so would be more likely to accept these positions.

From another point of view, I'm sure there were other workers there who were British, but they didn't stick out in your memory as that would be "normal" and not noteworty. Only the ones that were different would be memorable to you.

_Ju_
19-Oct-08, 14:43
Who is to say that locals on the social never applied for the jobs?
Its too easy to blame people on the social but if they get turned down for johnny foreigner what hope have they?
It just doesnt make sense that employers employ people with limited english but turn down locals because they arent qualified!!!

We are far too liberal.

You are telling me that given the choice between a national and foreigner equally able, emplyers are prefering to have the foreigners front theior businesses? Really????[lol] Think....please think!

percy toboggan
19-Oct-08, 14:52
Those who prefer to sit at home whilst foreigners do the low waged jobs are hopefully in for a shock anytime soon.

Benefits (after a twelve month period) should be withdrawn from anyone under the age of thirty five who is claiming to have a 'mental condition' unless they are willing to be placed in a residential hospital - they used to call them 'loony bins' I'm afraid....for it's not a nice term.

Anyone, even a young person suffering from 'depression' can flip a burger or clear up dead leaves. No work - no money!

Those claiming more physical restrictions should be rigorously tested, to the point of entrapment if necessary. As one who has always worked. recently in the face of some physical adversity I think it's high time the country got tougher on the lazy swines who see work as an optional extra. The very fact that we have to import workers who are happy to come here and make a few quid (before hopefully returning home) should be the spur which is needed for a Government to re-inflict the work ethic onto those who have opted out. Nobody...I repeat nobody should be allowed to languish on the dole for longer than three months without performing some kind of task in return for their weekly subsistence cheque.

hotrod4
19-Oct-08, 14:55
You are telling me that given the choice between a national and foreigner equally able, emplyers are prefering to have the foreigners front theior businesses? Really????[lol] Think....please think!

It is a well known fact that business tend to try and have a large "mixture" of non british people to reflect modern society.
Why even the "met" are aiming for higher numbers of people from ethnic backgrounds to "balance the books".

What makes it more annoying was the fact that the girl in Burger King was asking for my order in Polish to another polish worker! Surely as an employee in Inverness the least we should expect is for them to speak in English as I find it annoying and dis-respectful for them to talk in their native tongue as for all i know they could've been calling me anything!!! ;)

Tilter
19-Oct-08, 15:49
If I was in Poland or Latvia and suddenly, because my country became a member EU state, I was allowed to come over here and earn better money (even if it was flipping burgers), I'd be here like a shot. So I can't really criticise them.

They said on the radio yesterday that many Eastern Europeans are now returning to their own country, either because of the credit crunch and hard times, or because the grass here is not so green after all.

hotrod4
19-Oct-08, 16:15
If I was in Poland or Latvia and suddenly, because my country became a member EU state, I was allowed to come over here and earn better money (even if it was flipping burgers), I'd be here like a shot. So I can't really criticise them.

They said on the radio yesterday that many Eastern Europeans are now returning to their own country, either because of the credit crunch and hard times, or because the grass here is not so green after all.

They were screaming out for poles to return home.,as they didnt have enough skilled workers in the building Industry to build the stadiums for the Euro championships.

TBH
19-Oct-08, 16:57
"They are only doing the jobs that no-one else wants". That's the biggest fallacy of them all. Even businesses that have had no trouble recruiting locally, are slowly replacing their work-force with Eastern Europeans, why is that I wonder?
Is right that a British tradesman or woman should happily watch as his/her wages are driven down with the influx of cheap labour?. Why should they work for a wage lower than what they are used to just to be able to compete for a job in their own country. How can they ever compete with a worker from Eastern Europe that sees the minimum wage in Britain as a fortune compared to what they could earn at home.

Tristan
19-Oct-08, 17:04
I will admit I have not looked into the skilled worker issue. However the example that started the thread were all minimum wage jobs.

arana negra
19-Oct-08, 17:20
I can only speak from what I have seen and know. When I was an employer, many ' local british' people would not apply for certain types of work. They saw it as menial and low paid, beneath them :roll: Retail/Catering heading the list.

Here in Spain I have become friends with a few Polish people and can honestly say that are very hard working and honest. One lady works 7 dyas a week with very long hours ie 8 am till 2 am sometimes the following morning, depending on what is needed. She is friendly to all customers and a very good spanish speaker. As are the others I have met and know.

We the British have 'invaded' and 'taken' over areas of other countries, wanting/having British food/ways language only spoken, bit of pot and kettle situation.

I do believe that too many immigrants have been allowed into UK, the government has allowed this situation to arise and is now looking for ways to redress the balance.

rockchick
19-Oct-08, 17:32
One lady works 7 dyas a week with very long hours ie 8 am till 2 am sometimes the following morning, depending on what is needed.

This woman's work ethic, while admirable, is in contravention to the EU Working Hours directive, which REQUIRES workers to have 11 hours a day between work periods, have at least one day off in fourteen, and limits workers to 48 hours per week (although they used to be able to opt out of the 48 hours if they wanted to).

If this woman was in the UK, and had an accident whilst at work, the HSE would slam down on the employer like the proverbial fly and swatter.

canuck
19-Oct-08, 17:56
I am a foreigner working as an immigrant in the UK and I have read with interest the responses above. With recent statements from the government I do worry about the renewal of my Entry Clearance when it comes up for renewal next summer. (Brandy, maybe I too need to explore citizenship.) The irony is that my ancestor was one of about 40 people who was responsible for the establishment of the organization which employs me.

But my situation is not reflected in the title of this thread, the issue of multi-culturalism, for I am about as culturally attached in this country as one gets. Employment of foreigners does not necessarily imply an influx of people from a different culture.

As to multi-culturalism itself, I have lived in culturally diverse cities which have offered a wonderful experience to their citizens.

youoldduffer
19-Oct-08, 22:49
I have been an employer working for a large company and have never heard of or been told to employ ethnic or non-british people to keep the mix right, I employed those i thought right for the job from the applicants. Yes more eastern european's applyed than Local or british and sadly i have found more often than not local/british do not last in the job.

People on the social will apply for the job and turn up to the interview in Jeans and a T-shirt.

To clarify i work in the hotel trade, though no longer as an employer as i had enough and wanted a life outside the hotel.

JoeSoap
19-Oct-08, 23:30
I cant understand how an employer can give someone a job if they can barely speak our language. How does the interview take place? With a translator?
You have purposefully misspelled some words in your post to give them a local twang so I think it's reasonable to assume that you also speak with that same twang. Perhaps the interviewer was better able to 'speak our language' in a way that could be understood.

I remember watching a television documentary about Dounreay which included an interview with some locals. I found it no problem understanding what they were saying but the documentary makers obviously struggled because they'd felt it necessary to provide subtitles.


We are far too liberal.
Are we? In what sense?

'Liberal' seems to have become a catch-all covering numerous presumed 'P.C.' wrongs, usually spouted by right-leaning politicians and then parroted up by the masses as a slur. Specifically, which 'liberal' ideal would you see curtailed here and what would you replace it with?

Fly
19-Oct-08, 23:37
Those who prefer to sit at home whilst foreigners do the low waged jobs are hopefully in for a shock anytime soon.

Benefits (after a twelve month period) should be withdrawn from anyone under the age of thirty five who is claiming to have a 'mental condition' unless they are willing to be placed in a residential hospital - they used to call them 'loony bins' I'm afraid....for it's not a nice term.

Anyone, even a young person suffering from 'depression' can flip a burger or clear up dead leaves. No work - no money!

Those claiming more physical restrictions should be rigorously tested, to the point of entrapment if necessary. As one who has always worked. recently in the face of some physical adversity I think it's high time the country got tougher on the lazy swines who see work as an optional extra. The very fact that we have to import workers who are happy to come here and make a few quid (before hopefully returning home) should be the spur which is needed for a Government to re-inflict the work ethic onto those who have opted out. Nobody...I repeat nobody should be allowed to languish on the dole for longer than three months without performing some kind of task in return for their weekly subsistence cheque.


Could not agree more, but Brown is too dependent on the votes of the scroungers to cut their benefits and get them back to work.

loobyloo
20-Oct-08, 00:13
I think the human condition is a bit more complicated that labelling everyone 'scroungers' or 'foreigners'. That path leads to a bad place in my opinion.

Tilter
20-Oct-08, 00:47
I do believe that too many immigrants have been allowed into UK, the government has allowed this situation to arise and is now looking for ways to redress the balance.

Very true Arana N.

I always think I'm so liberal (ha!) but I have a problem with some ladies wearing the niqab. It looks so creepy - just a black shape with slits for eyes. Haven't seen it up here but have seen some down south. I guess in a multicultural society you should be able to dress how you want. It just seems so foreign not to be able to see a person. I couldn't dress the way I want in Saudi since they're not multicultural.

brokencross
20-Oct-08, 09:36
Hotrod - a nation cannot be 'too' multi-cultural...it's either multi-cultural or it isn't.

I agree with that statement.
Widening the debate somewhat, I feel the problem we may have is, too many cultures within our multi-cultural island to live in total harmony.
Too many of these cultures appear as if they are not prepared to put themselves out in the slightest way to integrate with the British society they have chosen to live in. They want their surroundings and everyone elses behaviour and attitudes to change to suit their lifestyle (not the other way round).

Here in Britain, all cultures try to exist "side by side" as best they can. However some of these cultures, when in their own country and environs, will not even consider this, let alone tolerate any form of co-existance or difference in beliefs.

In some areas this is already leading to tensions and confrontations between the more militant and extreme factions within these cultural groups. Nothing to do with the indigenous folks, simply a clash of cultures of peoples availing themselves of what Britain has to offer.


We need a multi ethnic mono culture with those who wish to retain links with their homeland in the form of worship and dress to be allowed to do so without pushing it into the mainstream and expecting 'British' culture to bend in acommodation.

Also agree with that summation. The politicians of our country seems to bend over backwards to facilitate the integration of other cultures.
That is fine, but if someone does not want to integrate and does not show respect and approriate deference to British and other cultures, it should be a case of "there's the door, on your way, goodbye and good riddance"

I fear for our fire brigades, police, hospitals and all public services when they have to employ quotas of cultures, colours, races, creeds to reflect the society we live in.

Is it a case of "I will only be rescued by a fireperson of my own sex, race and beliefs, or arrested by a policeperson who is of the same religion and colour as myself" I think not!!

Whatever happened to simply just getting the best person for the job whether they be black, white, asian, middle eastern, eastern European, even pink with red dots and fluffy ears etc.

A translation of this post is available in 36 other languages should it be desired.

Angela
20-Oct-08, 09:50
Benefits (after a twelve month period) should be withdrawn from anyone under the age of thirty five who is claiming to have a 'mental condition' unless they are willing to be placed in a residential hospital - they used to call them 'loony bins' I'm afraid....for it's not a nice term.

Anyone, even a young person suffering from 'depression' can flip a burger or clear up dead leaves. No work - no money!



Shame on you, percy.

Clinical depression is a serious and horrible illness. When I was a child my aunt was incarcerated in Craig Dunain on the ground of 'depression'. She wouldn't be now of course, because most of the 'loony bins' as you put it, were closed down years ago.

Your placing 'depression' in inverted commas' suggest you don't believe it's real. Try telling that to someone who's suffering from it. It bears virtually no relation to feeling a bit fed up or sad or not feeling like getting out of bed in the morning, or any other of the things people who are mentally healthy refer to as being 'depressed'.

And no, someone suffering from severe depression can often not 'flip a burger or clear dead leaves.' Apart from the fact that they are ill, not criminals, to be set menial jobs that other folk don't want. Quite why you feel the situation is different for someone over the age of 35, I cannot understand.

Many people can and do manage to work with a degree of clinical depression, with the help of anti-depressants, but often they do need quite a long period off work to help them recover. Sadly there isn't enough money to provide the talking therapies which often help as much as, or even more than, drugs.

In Scotland at least we are trying to promote a better understanding of mental ill health.

Boozeburglar
20-Oct-08, 11:22
Went to Burger King and was served by a Polish girl who got my order way wrong because she couldnt grasp the English language.
headed to Primark where I was served by another polish girl.
headed to Pundstretchers and once again was served by a pole.
Visited poundland and same again was served by another pole!
Finally had something to eat at Morrisons and was served by a Nigerian and then had my food served by yet another pole!
Bought some groceries and way and behold yet another pole served me!!

Of course, in the name of accuracy, you asked each person where they were from and under what circumstances they were here?

hotrod4
20-Oct-08, 11:56
Of course, in the name of accuracy, you asked each person where they were from and under what circumstances they were here?

And if I did that I would be infringing their human rights wouldn't I ?
I dont ask local shopkeepers etc where they come from so why would I ask an Immigrant, that would be then described as racism, then I would be damned if I do damned if I dont

hotrod4
20-Oct-08, 12:02
You have purposefully misspelled some words in your post to give them a local twang so I think it's reasonable to assume that you also speak with that same twang. Perhaps the interviewer was better able to 'speak our language' in a way that could be understood.


So I am unable to use "local twang"?(maybe I misspelled not out of purpose but maybe because I am caithnesslexic [lol])
It is common knowledge that people attending Interviews etc speak with their "telephone voice" so the Interviewer can undertsand what you are saying clearer.
For the record I dont speak with a 100% caithness twang its more a mix of ayrshire/caithness but when speaking to non-caithnessians my "ayrshire twang" comes out more as it is easier to understand and clearer to non locals.

hotrod4
20-Oct-08, 12:10
Those who prefer to sit at home whilst foreigners do the low waged jobs are hopefully in for a shock anytime soon.

Benefits (after a twelve month period) should be withdrawn from anyone under the age of thirty five who is claiming to have a 'mental condition' unless they are willing to be placed in a residential hospital - they used to call them 'loony bins' I'm afraid....for it's not a nice term.

Anyone, even a young person suffering from 'depression' can flip a burger or clear up dead leaves. No work - no money!

Those claiming more physical restrictions should be rigorously tested, to the point of entrapment if necessary. As one who has always worked. recently in the face of some physical adversity I think it's high time the country got tougher on the lazy swines who see work as an optional extra. The very fact that we have to import workers who are happy to come here and make a few quid (before hopefully returning home) should be the spur which is needed for a Government to re-inflict the work ethic onto those who have opted out. Nobody...I repeat nobody should be allowed to languish on the dole for longer than three months without performing some kind of task in return for their weekly subsistence cheque.



I can see where you are coming from but feel it unfair to mix "mental Illness" with people blatantly defrauding the government by claiming to be ill when they obviously arent.

There are some who appear at the doctors on walking sticks and soon as they are outside they are thrown in the boot and off they go (in the car they get for nothing!!)!
It is those type of people who deserve to have their benefits stopped NOT those who suffer with mental illness, as we dont want to go back to the days when we hid all of lifes "undesirables" away in assylums?
Surely we have moved on from then?

yes test those that claim illness after a period of time, but i wouldnt automatically assume that they are all "on the fiddle".

JoeSoap
20-Oct-08, 13:37
So I am unable to use "local twang"?
I didn't say that... I'm merely suggesting that the Caithness(/Ayrshire) accent is not the easiest of accents to understand when English is not your first language.

Based on the vitriol you seem to feel toward immigrants (and not just in this thread) I imagine that you didn’t really give the woman in Burger King much of a chance to understand you – I’m guessing that once she’d failed to understand your order the first time you just got slightly louder rather than any clearer.

I also imagine you then went around Inverness for the rest of the day in something of a fury with an anti-PC mantra looping in your head and an imaginary tick-sheet on the go so you could keep note of every ‘Johnny Foreigner’ you came into contact with.

What’s really saddening is that I don’t doubt you believe that businesses are giving immigrants ‘preferential treatment’. That it makes no business sense to do so is completely lost on you – you’d rather believe that there is some bizarre conspiracy at the heart of the Inverness Chamber of Commerce to force locals onto welfare and drive profit margins down. [disgust]

TBH
20-Oct-08, 14:58
You have purposefully misspelled some words in your post to give them a local twang so I think it's reasonable to assume that you also speak with that same twang. Perhaps the interviewer was better able to 'speak our language' in a way that could be understood.

I remember watching a television documentary about Dounreay which included an interview with some locals. I found it no problem understanding what they were saying but the documentary makers obviously struggled because they'd felt it necessary to provide subtitles.


Are we? In what sense?

'Liberal' seems to have become a catch-all covering numerous presumed 'P.C.' wrongs, usually spouted by right-leaning politicians and then parroted up by the masses as a slur. Specifically, which 'liberal' ideal would you see curtailed here and what would you replace it with?Rightards, lefties, pinko liberals, it's all good.

rich
20-Oct-08, 16:05
This is a debate that goes on and on and on.
Sound the alarm, man the panic stations - someone got served a meal by a Polish person.
Well so what????
Are you people all crazy?
Maybe you would like a sign on the Ord saying Go Home, Poles. Or Chzeks, or Italians or Lithuanians.
Seriously folks, is this how you spend your waking hours."
"Hello, Jessie how are you keeping?"
"Not so good, Meg. I had a shocking experience in Edinburgh. I got served by a Pole."
"Serviced by a Pole? Jessie, you must have been desperate..."
"No Meg - served...served..."
I guess this post of mine is not going to last very long in contrast to the Fascist nonsense we get served up by the usual suspects here.
Might I ask for a complete ban to be placed on this type of drooling, brain-damaged vicious excretia?

percy toboggan
20-Oct-08, 17:40
This is a debate that goes on and on and on.
Sound the alarm, man the panic stations - someone got served a meal by a Polish person.
Well so what????
Are you people all crazy?
Maybe you would like a sign on the Ord saying Go Home, Poles. Or Chzeks, or Italians or Lithuanians.
Seriously folks, is this how you spend your waking hours."
"Hello, Jessie how are you keeping?"
"Not so good, Meg. I had a shocking experience in Edinburgh. I got served by a Pole."
"Serviced by a Pole? Jessie, you must have been desperate..."
"No Meg - served...served..."
I guess this post of mine is not going to last very long in contrast to the Fascist nonsense we get served up by the usual suspects here.

Might I ask for a complete ban to be placed on this type of drooling, brain-damaged vicious excretia?

The key is in your hands rich - stop posting it.
People who over use the term 'fascist' betray laziness and tunnel thought.
You have no idea who is a fascist here and who is not.

hotrod4
20-Oct-08, 17:57
I didn't say that... I'm merely suggesting that the Caithness(/Ayrshire) accent is not the easiest of accents to understand when English is not your first language.

Based on the vitriol you seem to feel toward immigrants (and not just in this thread) I imagine that you didn’t really give the woman in Burger King much of a chance to understand you – I’m guessing that once she’d failed to understand your order the first time you just got slightly louder rather than any clearer.

I also imagine you then went around Inverness for the rest of the day in something of a fury with an anti-PC mantra looping in your head and an imaginary tick-sheet on the go so you could keep note of every ‘Johnny Foreigner’ you came into contact with.

What’s really saddening is that I don’t doubt you believe that businesses are giving immigrants ‘preferential treatment’. That it makes no business sense to do so is completely lost on you – you’d rather believe that there is some bizarre conspiracy at the heart of the Inverness Chamber of Commerce to force locals onto welfare and drive profit margins down. [disgust]

You surmised completely wrong there Mr soap.
When I placed the order in Burger king she read it back to me but still got it wrong once the food was put on my tray. I didnt shout at her or raise my voice I merely went back and got someone else to correct her mistake.

Just to clarify-No I didnt have a tick sheet but you obviously do as you have got some "anti-anti" PC mantra looping round your head keeping a note of every non-johnny foreigner you come into contact with who chooses to disagree with you.

You can hardly accuse me off having a "tick sheet" when I merely pointed out that all the people I came into contact with that day were "non locals". Not an assumption or a tick sheet, merely stating the facts, how you interpret that is your own business.

So there is 2 completely wrong assumptions that you have jumped to Mr soap, I would be grateful if you could ensure that you have the facts to hand before you get yourself in a lather! [lol]

hotrod4
20-Oct-08, 18:00
This is a debate that goes on and on and on.
Sound the alarm, man the panic stations - someone got served a meal by a Polish person.
Well so what????
Are you people all crazy?
Maybe you would like a sign on the Ord saying Go Home, Poles. Or Chzeks, or Italians or Lithuanians.
Seriously folks, is this how you spend your waking hours."
"Hello, Jessie how are you keeping?"
"Not so good, Meg. I had a shocking experience in Edinburgh. I got served by a Pole."
"Serviced by a Pole? Jessie, you must have been desperate..."
"No Meg - served...served..."
I guess this post of mine is not going to last very long in contrast to the Fascist nonsense we get served up by the usual suspects here.
Might I ask for a complete ban to be placed on this type of drooling, brain-damaged vicious excretia?

Doesnt your above "excretia" not border on drooling,brain-damaged Innuendo [lol]

Ah isnt it great to have an opinion?
You couldnt do that in a Fascist society could you Rich!!!!!!

P.s who are jessie and meg? and what are they doing in Edinburgh? ;)

Rheghead
20-Oct-08, 18:03
Talking about accents and getting food orders wrong, a Scottish lassie served me in a bakers in Aberdour last week, I asked for 2 fried egg buns and 2 sausage rolls, I got the egg buns but I got 2 square sausages in buns. Never mind eh?

brokencross
20-Oct-08, 18:04
Might I ask for a complete ban to be placed on this type of drooling, brain-damaged vicious excretia?

Do we have to revert to missing dogs and cats (as long as it is not a German shepherd or a Polecat)

hotrod4
20-Oct-08, 18:08
Talking about accents and getting food orders wrong, a Scottish lassie served me in a bakers in Aberdour last week, I asked for 2 fried egg buns and 2 sausage rolls, I got the egg buns but I got 2 square sausages in buns. Never mind eh?

I bet the square sausage was better than a sausage roll anyways (Unless its a greggs, then I take it all back!!!!)

Interestingly enough in Thurso its a Sausage roll, but in Wick its a Meat roll.(unless you go to mcdonalds where you can choose sausage or meat just to confuse you more!!!) Hard to believe its only 21 miles between the 2 towns!!!

percy toboggan
20-Oct-08, 18:31
[quote=Angela;447564]Shame on you, percy.

Clinical depression is a serious and horrible illness. When I was a child my aunt was incarcerated in Craig Dunain on the ground of 'depression'. She wouldn't be now of course, because most of the 'loony bins' as you put it, were closed down years ago.

Your placing 'depression' in inverted commas' suggest you don't believe it's real. Try telling that to someone who's suffering from it. It bears virtually no relation to feeling a bit fed up or sad or not feeling like getting out of bed in the morning, or any other of the things people who are mentally healthy refer to as being 'depressed'.

And no, someone suffering from severe depression can often not 'flip a burger or clear dead leaves.' Apart from the fact that they are ill, not criminals, to be set menial jobs that other folk don't want. Quite why you feel the situation is different for someone over the age of 35, I cannot understand.
quote]

Shame on me? I think not.
Shame belongs to the majority of the half a million under thirty five year olds who are on long term incapacity benefit due to 'mental illness'. Because most of 'em are swinging the lead.

The true depressives might buck up a bit when the hunger pangs pang.
I concede there are a few tortured souls who are not much use to anybody...much less themselves and yes, we owe them a roof, three squares and a bed. That's about it as far as I'm concerned. Throw in a sympathetic pseudo-professional ear if you wish. The taxpayer can stand it after all.

I'm aware you may see me as a hard hearted, unfeeling oaf .
It takes all sorts.

TBH
20-Oct-08, 18:35
That's the ticket, ban freedom of speech if you don't agree with what's being said. People moan about mass immigration to these shores, high rates of unemployment amongs British nationals but aparently plenty of jobs for foreign nationals. Easily solved, ban them from voicing their concerns in public, ban them from posting on internet forums about it. Who are the real fascists in this all.

TBH
20-Oct-08, 18:39
Talking about accents and getting food orders wrong, a Scottish lassie served me in a bakers in Aberdour last week, I asked for 2 fried egg buns and 2 sausage rolls, I got the egg buns but I got 2 square sausages in buns. Never mind eh?You asked for a sausage roll, what did you expect to get in a Scottish bakery? Try making yourself clearer next time, eh.

JoeSoap
20-Oct-08, 19:56
So there is 2 completely wrong assumptions that you have jumped to Mr soap, I would be grateful if you could ensure that you have the facts to hand before you get yourself in a lather! [lol]
Hey, a little play on words there. Well done, you. :rolleyes:


When I placed the order in Burger king she read it back to me but still got it wrong once the food was put on my tray.
Now you’re getting me confused. I thought she wasn’t able to speak the language? Are you saying that she read the order back to you but made a mistake when putting it on the tray?

Out of interest, were you charged the correct amount for your initial order?


You can hardly accuse me off having a "tick sheet" when I merely pointed out that all the people I came into contact with that day were "non locals".
Really? You drove to Inverness, visited (only?) three shops and had two meals… and during that time you only came into contact with seven people? You didn’t witness anybody else working in the two restaurants or four shops you visited – just these seven individuals?

Forgive me, but it seems that you are either exaggerating for effect or you simply don’t remember the people who didn’t offend you.

rich
20-Oct-08, 22:20
Percy I don't recall having called you a fascist. I guess that was an oversight on my part.
What I am asking is what is the point of this endless griping about multiculturism?
It's not fun. It's got nothing to do with Caithness and I am embarassed by a web site that allows threads like this to develop.
On a newspaper there are trained editors to spot this kind of stuff and nip it in the bud. Likewise in television journalism.
But on the Caithness Org the lunatics are running the asylum.
I visit this site less and less because the message board is so very dull, repetitiive and even cruel.
But even worse - you have besmirched the good name of Caithness.
That really does bother me and I sure many Caithness people across the world must be dumbfounded by this reactionary rubbish on the county web-site.

northener
20-Oct-08, 22:35
Percy I don't recall having called you a fascist. I guess that was an oversight on my part.
What I am asking is what is the point of this endless griping about multiculturism?
It's not fun. It's got nothing to do with Caithness and I am embarassed by a web site that allows threads like this to develop.
On a newspaper there are trained editors to spot this kind of stuff and nip it in the bud. Likewise in television journalism.
But on the Caithness Org the lunatics are running the asylum.
I visit this site less and less because the message board is so very dull, repetitiive and even cruel.
But even worse - you have besmirched the good name of Caithness.
That really does bother me and I sure many Caithness people across the world must be dumbfounded by this reactionary rubbish on the county web-site.

Absolute tripe. If you don't like what you read - ignore the thread or get lost.

Boozeburglar
20-Oct-08, 22:38
I 2nd the sentiment of Rich's post.

This crap does not represent Caithness well, and how telling that it is mainly spouted by non-Caithnessians.

gleeber
20-Oct-08, 22:50
I dont agree either but I will try to explain why. I can understand Rich's frustration but Caithness is not only the idylic far northern county that we all love it's also a hive of prejudice, racism, sexism, homophobia, you name it Caithness has it. It's no different than anywhere else. That's what the message board mirrors. It shows us in our true colours. I think thats fantastic. It gives people an opportunity to chew over some of their deepest fears and prejudices. Challenging views and being challenged is part of the game.
Newspapers are more subtle in their prejudices, editors more legally conscious. Journalists can make a prejudice look like a christmas hamper. This is all pretty raw.
The clocks go back next week. For goodness sake Rich danna poke the fire now.

purplelady
20-Oct-08, 23:17
Went to Inversnekie this week and was shocked at what I found.
Went to Burger King and was served by a Polish girl who got my order way wrong because she couldnt grasp the English language.
headed to Primark where I was served by another polish girl.
headed to Pundstretchers and once again was served by a pole.
Visited poundland and same again was served by another pole!
Finally had something to eat at Morrisons and was served by a Nigerian and then had my food served by yet another pole!
Bought some groceries and way and behold yet another pole served me!!

Maybe they should rename the "eastgate" the Eastern european gate!

I'm all for integration but at what cost? I wasnt served by a local throughout my whole shopping trip. I cant understand how an employer can give someone a job if they can barely speak our language. How does the interview take place? With a translator?

With unemployment reaching 2 million why are business' still employing foreigners over locals?
They have a right to live and work here like the locals but why are they getting preferential treatment over locals? I would think that they should take priority over foreign nationals but that would be racism right! But the other way round its being "PC".????

It is an absolute sham the way this country is going :(i was in inverness on sat and have to agree at the amount of poles working there is unreal did get served bu a couple of locals mind hehehehe

brokencross
20-Oct-08, 23:27
What I am asking is what is the point of this endless griping about multiculturism?

A shot in the dark maybe, but could it be that some people see the inroad of foreign nationals as a threat to the identity and culture of their homeland and simply wish to express this fear.

Or could it be they have the courage to spark debate about sensitive topics which others choose to ignore and accept as the inevitable.

As far as I can see a good healthy reasoned debate is not illegal and if carried out maturely without flinging insults will enhance Caithness and not besmirch its reputation.

It is not as if there is a cry to arms, or the white capes being donned and the innocents being burned at the stake.

It is rather underhand to try and "blackmail" the moderators with emotive statements

It's got nothing to do with Caithness and I am embarassed by a web site that allows threads like this to develop.
On a newspaper there are trained editors to spot this kind of stuff and nip it in the bud. Likewise in television journalism.
But on the Caithness Org the lunatics are running the asylum.

Hopefully our moderators will see this thread for what it is, honest open debate about a hot topic, immigration, which was in the national news only today!

thebigman
20-Oct-08, 23:31
It is a well known fact that business tend to try and have a large "mixture" of non british people to reflect modern society.


I'd be interested in the sources for this "fact"?

thebigman
20-Oct-08, 23:42
A shot in the dark maybe, but could it be that some people see the inroad of foreign nationals as a threat to the identity and culture of their homeland and simply wish to express this fear.


I think the Scottish culture and identity left when the first US TV show was shown over here :-)

Tom Cornwall
20-Oct-08, 23:43
It is a well known fact that business tend to try and have a large "mixture" of non british people to reflect modern society.
Why even the "met" are aiming for higher numbers of people from ethnic backgrounds to "balance the books".

What makes it more annoying was the fact that the girl in Burger King was asking for my order in Polish to another polish worker! Surely as an employee in Inverness the least we should expect is for them to speak in English as I find it annoying and dis-respectful for them to talk in their native tongue as for all i know they could've been calling me anything!!! ;)
we went on holiday to Wales and went into a local pub ...everyone was speaking English when we went in, but almost immediately, they started speaking Welsh,...apparently we heard this happens in certain places in Scotland (Western Isles) ...why do you think this happens...It means that it doesn't have to be "foreigners" who do thes things....

golach
20-Oct-08, 23:55
we went on holiday to Wales and went into a local pub ...everyone was speaking English when we went in, but almost immediately, they started speaking Welsh,...apparently we heard this happens in certain places in Scotland (Western Isles) ...why do you think this happens...It means that it doesn't have to be "foreigners" who do thes things....
Tom Cornwall, I had a similar experience, went on holiday with Mrs G , both of us Scots, to the Norfolk Broads, tied up our cruiser next to this pub, went in , the conversation died, as I ordered my drink, the clientèle all started speaking English!!!! [lol]

brokencross
21-Oct-08, 07:15
I think the Scottish culture and identity left when the first US TV show was shown over here :-)

Thinking about it, you are probably right. Bring back Rab C. Nesbitt and the White Heather Club ;)

hotrod4
21-Oct-08, 08:07
Percy I don't recall having called you a fascist. I guess that was an oversight on my part.
What I am asking is what is the point of this endless griping about multiculturism?
It's not fun. It's got nothing to do with Caithness and I am embarassed by a web site that allows threads like this to develop.
On a newspaper there are trained editors to spot this kind of stuff and nip it in the bud. Likewise in television journalism.
But on the Caithness Org the lunatics are running the asylum.
I visit this site less and less because the message board is so very dull, repetitiive and even cruel.
But even worse - you have besmirched the good name of Caithness.
That really does bother me and I sure many Caithness people across the world must be dumbfounded by this reactionary rubbish on the county web-site.



But if you start stopping people from having an opinion you will no longer be able to come on here and have your opinion!!!

Have a look at all the threads in the main section, they are not all about Caithness, it doesnt have to be about Caithness per se. National news affects just that-Nationally, so why not discuss whats happening Nationally?
There are threads about the US election what does that have to do with Caithness? Nothing but its interesting and people like to discuss it.
Thats what forums are all about, agree to disagree!!!

brokencross
21-Oct-08, 08:12
But if you start stopping people from having an opinion you will no longer be able to come on here and have your opinion!!!

Thats what forums are all about, agree to disagree!!!

Hotrod, either you got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning OR your exclamation key is sticking!!!! OMG its catching!!!. :lol:

_Ju_
21-Oct-08, 08:22
Things change. Times change. This board typifies that. The world used to be slow, acess to information restricted, communities isolated and the movement of people alot more difficult and expensive. It's changed: either learn to live with it and adapt or try to hide yourselves away from it. If you choose to hide away, don't expect sympathy when you are using the internet to communicate your feelings of inadequacy to the world: the internet is hugely responsible for making the new world you are complaining about the way it is: smaller and mobile. If you choose to hide, don't be surprised when your children find out and resent that they weren't given the tools to cope with that rapidly changing world. If you choose to hide then renounce all the privleges that this smaller world has given you: ease in travel;ease in having new experiences without having to go to the ends of the earth for them; ease in retiring to warmer climes with the benefit of the local health system; ease in changing what makes you uncomfortable in your life and seeking out something better somewhere else. If you are willing to give those up, then you are living by what you truely feel and that is fine by me. But don't expect to have your cake and eat it too!

I understand Rich's point of view. I feel myself doing the same: distancing myself from a board that used to be able to dicuss things without becoming offensive ( and personally offensive at that). And yes Northerner, you are, in a way, right: ignore or get lost. If we get lost, that will be this boards loss. As for ignoring, sometimes you can and sometimes you can't.

What I find so strange is that there is always a quick jump to preserve the feelings of individuals if they might be affected by a certain post, but bigotted, xenophobic and racist comments are often defended to the hilt for freedom of expression even when offending swathes of population. It feels like a double standard.

As for PT: the bloody immigrants are stealing "our" jobs, but the scroungers should be forced into work (how can you steal a job if the scrounger doesn't want it?) untill the magic age of 35, after which they are scroungers no longer but magically transformed into people who are authentically in need ( of course, their working for 15 years will also magically pay for the following 55 years they are on the dole or pensioned!), except of course if you have a mental disease at which point you should be thrown in the loony bin if it's for real. Hmmm...any loonie bins near you, PT, because this sure doesn't make sense to me. They infact sound like the ravings of a lunatic. But then it might be my rubbish english that you now can proceed to pick apart. Or maybe you will give one of your usual belittling patronising replies. And if this tirade sounds belittling or patronising to you, it is so on purpose. Any substantiated reply to you is ignored, so have some of your own back.

rich
21-Oct-08, 14:57
There is one rather obvious fact about this that we tend to forget. People contribute to the message board under made up names. If there is a person with Caithness connections who really is called Percy Toboggan then I apologize, Perce old man.

But if you are some drop-in from England whose only connection with Caithness is as a place to conveniently denounce people whose "cultural" mores offend you, then why on earth should I or anybody support your right to what you laughably call "free speech." It is an abuse of free speech. It is hurtful, it is vicious and it seems to be on the rise.

So when you raise free speech as a defence for the tripe you regularly dish out here then I can only say you are trivializing the very notion of free speech.

So I'll tell you what, Percy. Give out your real name and address and e mail and I'll do the same. Well, I'll do it right now. My name is Richard Sutherland, I live in Toronto where I work as a speechwriter and journalist. But I spent my childhood in Thurso where my Dad was a family doctor and for a while, Provost. Many of the people on the message board must know who I am. I suspect that rather few - if any - know who you are.

This is one way we can find out and assess how to deal with you and your tiny band of followers.

I'd like to conclude by raising a pragmatic aspect to this to which we should all be paying attention. The Caithness. org is more than a group of residents and exiles sounding off on the issues of the day. The Org is also the Caithness Brand. It's where outsiders go to see what Caithness is like, to decide if they want to set up businesses in Caithness, or visit for a vacation, it is the public face of the county.

That face is becomes seriously blemished when it is associated with the thinly veiled racism that you bring to the board, Percy.

Gleber2
21-Oct-08, 15:38
Aye, Rich, our father was my doctor for many years and I remember you and your entire family extremely well. I cannot agree more with your last post. Mr. Toboggan's posts are very similar in content to a fellow called Landmarker, whom, I believe, was banned for life for his racism and vituperative style. We don't need this sort of crap on this board.[evil]

Flyermonkey
21-Oct-08, 15:54
why on earth should I or anybody support your right to what you laughably call "free speech." It is an abuse of free speech. It is hurtful, it is vicious and it seems to be on the rise.

So when you raise free speech as a defence for the tripe you regularly dish out here then I can only say you are trivializing the very notion of free speech.


Beautifully said, Richard. I have been trying to think about how to say the same thing but you have said it way better than I could have!

TBH
21-Oct-08, 16:07
I didn't realise this thread was about PercyTobogan and Rich, silly old me?:roll:
Why don't you open your own wee social groups. Maybe call them, "Rich hates Percy" and "Percy Hates Rich".

rich
21-Oct-08, 16:24
I am simply reflecting feelings that many of us on the Org have. This seemed as good a place to begin as any.

TBH
21-Oct-08, 16:45
I am simply reflecting feelings that many of us on the Org have. This seemed as good a place to begin as any.In that case how about a, "We Hate Percy", social group? Failing that, let the moderators decide whether he is guilty of any impropriety.
Immigration levels in Britain are a growing concern, the Immigration system is in chaos and It's a recurrent topic of discussion in the media, so why should the members of Caithness.Org not be allowed to voice their own opinions on the subject?

rich
21-Oct-08, 17:26
Members of the Percy clique may indeed voice their opinions - however wild and erratic.
The question is WHERE should they voice these opinions!
It is my view that the Caithness Org is not the place.
The web site is effectively being hijacked to propagate the most alarming rubbish.
What makes it almost unbelievable is the waffle about "culture."
One thing we can be sure of is that when Percy et al rave away on matters cultural they are not speaking of the symphonies of Beethoven or the poetry of T. S. Eliot or the development of jazz, or Michaelangelo's David. They are complaining about curry, or turbans, or simply "foreigness."
They are not even talking about Caithness!
Well, I have news for Percy and the guys. Caithness does indeed have a culture. It is a culture that esteems education, a culture of tolerance, of literature, of music, often carried out under the most difficult of circumstances - the novel cycle of Neil Gunn stands as an example. Some of the best parts of the Caithness Org are to be found in Henderson's history, in the Memorabilia Domestica, in Hettie Munro's wartime experiences, on the Elaine Henderson moving day on the croft feature. Do you rememeber the wonderful thread on Thurso and its shops in the '50s. (I don't think you participated in that one, Perce.)
That is culture. It brings out the best in us.
But you, Percy are detemined to bring out the worst.

_Ju_
21-Oct-08, 17:34
In that case how about a, "We Hate Percy", social group? Failing that, let the moderators decide whether he is guilty of any impropriety.
Immigration levels in Britain are a growing concern, the Immigration system is in chaos and It's a recurrent topic of discussion in the media, so why should the members of Caithness.Org not be allowed to voice their own opinions on the subject?

I am all for discussing immigration, emmigration, migration and assylum with anyone. It is a subject that is personal to me and of great interest. But why am I going to discuss it with someone who cannot even tell the difference between them or whose idea (or ideal) of the world is so exclusionist and so closed that discussion is an impossibility. On this particular thread, how can you consider the all engulfing theory of emmigration/scroungers/mentally discussable?
PT has a tecnique that he has applied to me every single time I have replied to him ( and he does it with many people who challenge him): he patronises or disparages you, or failing those, pretends not to understand what you wrote with the implication of your illiteracy. How do you discuss anything at all with someone who answers you like that? It is ( and I agree with someone elses' mention of this) very reminicent of landmarker.


I love a strong debate, controversial issues, knowing other peoples points of view. I will even be strong worded and take a battering. But some people (including PT) are on here to be extremely offensive when hidden behind alter-ego's. I think that freedom of expression is great. BUT you don't need to be offensive when expressing an opinion. AND yes, some opinions are inately offensive ( such as what Percy so "eloquently" expressed on mentally ill people on this very thread).

gleeber
21-Oct-08, 17:50
Your on a roll now Rich.
There's no doubt the cultural oasis you talk about exists somewhere in Caithness. It's nonsense to paint Caithness as a tolerant county though. On the surface perhaps but just below the surface there lurks a pit of vipers. Backstabbing is a local pastime. Social privacy is something only Caithness exiles like yourself can enjoy. Those of us who live here and choose to live here embrace everything that's good about our county but dont come onto Caithness.org with this romantic notion that caithness has no percy toboggans. Caithness is full of them but very few have the courage or the abilty to put it into words like Percy can.
You want to paint Caithness as something it isnt. Now you want to change the org to suit your own romantic notion of a homeland you left generations ago.
I think your out of order.

Kenneth
21-Oct-08, 18:16
Those who prefer to sit at home whilst foreigners do the low waged jobs are hopefully in for a shock anytime soon.

Benefits (after a twelve month period) should be withdrawn from anyone under the age of thirty five who is claiming to have a 'mental condition' unless they are willing to be placed in a residential hospital - they used to call them 'loony bins' I'm afraid....for it's not a nice term.

Anyone, even a young person suffering from 'depression' can flip a burger or clear up dead leaves. No work - no money!

Those claiming more physical restrictions should be rigorously tested, to the point of entrapment if necessary. As one who has always worked. recently in the face of some physical adversity I think it's high time the country got tougher on the lazy swines who see work as an optional extra. The very fact that we have to import workers who are happy to come here and make a few quid (before hopefully returning home) should be the spur which is needed for a Government to re-inflict the work ethic onto those who have opted out. Nobody...I repeat nobody should be allowed to languish on the dole for longer than three months without performing some kind of task in return for their weekly subsistence cheque.


I agreed with your previous post on this topic but I think this is a step too far. I think there are people who suffer from depression, it is not a 'fake' illness as you imply here. I have never suffered, none of my family has either (which is surprising considering they have to see me everyday ho ho ho) from it so im not trying to stick up for anyone here but quite simply some people need a lot of help as it is a destablizing mental condition, its not just "oh i feel down today", it goes a lot further than that my friend. Im sure there are plenty people on the dole with genuine reasons for not having a job, and im sure they would leap at having a job stacking shelves working in BT or whatever.

The fact that some foreigners have taken some jobs does not bode ill with me whatsoever, im quite happy for integration, clearly the jobs are there to be taken and for various reasons the 2millions unemployed will have various reasons not to take these jobs, maybe some are lazy, but well, I dont think anyone would really enjoy being on the dole for an extended period of time, so if they are, theyll get off their backsides sooner or later. The fact that im served by a Polish/Indian/African person doesnt bother me in the slightest

Gleber2
21-Oct-08, 18:18
Rich and his family didn't leave here generations ago. Last saw him in my mother's front room in the mid seventies.

Kenneth
21-Oct-08, 18:20
It is a well known fact that business tend to try and have a large "mixture" of non british people to reflect modern society.
Why even the "met" are aiming for higher numbers of people from ethnic backgrounds to "balance the books".

What makes it more annoying was the fact that the girl in Burger King was asking for my order in Polish to another polish worker! Surely as an employee in Inverness the least we should expect is for them to speak in English as I find it annoying and dis-respectful for them to talk in their native tongue as for all i know they could've been calling me anything!!! ;)

maybe you should learn polish haha

Kenneth
21-Oct-08, 18:25
Not all the time.
Alot of companies (larger ones) insist on having a certain percentage of ethinic employees.
If you were up against a west indian for example and they need another one for their qouta, the west indian would get the job not you even if you can speak english and they cant!


Im sure that doesnt exist, but often if a workforce is over a certain number then they have employ someone with a mental/physical disabilty? can anyone confirm this??

Kenneth
21-Oct-08, 18:28
Last night television news was accompanied by clips of a London street. Thronged with people, few of them with a Cockney Grandad.Whilst the ethnic make up did not make me feel queasy I was offended.

It takes a lot to offend me. About a million in the last ten years would do it.


good heavens thats ridiculous min. does anybody love their country that much that ud be offended that other people from different countries were living/working here? I don't really care at all!

hotrod4
21-Oct-08, 18:37
There is one rather obvious fact about this that we tend to forget. People contribute to the message board under made up names. If there is a person with Caithness connections who really is called Percy Toboggan then I apologize, Perce old man.

But if you are some drop-in from England whose only connection with Caithness is as a place to conveniently denounce people whose "cultural" mores offend you, then why on earth should I or anybody support your right to what you laughably call "free speech." It is an abuse of free speech. It is hurtful, it is vicious and it seems to be on the rise.

So when you raise free speech as a defence for the tripe you regularly dish out here then I can only say you are trivializing the very notion of free speech.

So I'll tell you what, Percy. Give out your real name and address and e mail and I'll do the same. Well, I'll do it right now. My name is Richard Sutherland, I live in Toronto where I work as a speechwriter and journalist. But I spent my childhood in Thurso where my Dad was a family doctor and for a while, Provost. Many of the people on the message board must know who I am. I suspect that rather few - if any - know who you are.

This is one way we can find out and assess how to deal with you and your tiny band of followers.

I'd like to conclude by raising a pragmatic aspect to this to which we should all be paying attention. The Caithness. org is more than a group of residents and exiles sounding off on the issues of the day. The Org is also the Caithness Brand. It's where outsiders go to see what Caithness is like, to decide if they want to set up businesses in Caithness, or visit for a vacation, it is the public face of the county.

That face is becomes seriously blemished when it is associated with the thinly veiled racism that you bring to the board, Percy.



And who appointed you judge and jury Rich?

You mention "racism" in your post then go on to call someone a "drop in" from England and spout about "us" caithness people and their connections. Isnt your post racism in itself, or does that only apply to people you dont get on with?

If you wish to remain free and equal why dont you actually post about the topic in hand as opposed to venturing off (again) on your crusade against Percy?

Why not put your point across about THE TOPIC instead of deviating away from it with your rants?.
It would be interesting to hear a point of view from a "brit" living In canada, and how they treat "us" and other nations when "we" move over there? Do they have rising Immigration, high unemployment etc?

That would be alot more interesting and would get back on topic and stop the Rich vs Percy sideshow.

Kenneth
21-Oct-08, 18:38
And if I did that I would be infringing their human rights wouldn't I ?
I dont ask local shopkeepers etc where they come from so why would I ask an Immigrant, that would be then described as racism, then I would be damned if I do damned if I dont

doubt it, you could just be being friendly and chatty!

northener
21-Oct-08, 18:41
........................... My name is Richard Sutherland, I live in Toronto where I work as a speechwriter and journalist. But I spent my childhood in Thurso where my Dad was a family doctor and for a while, Provost. Many of the people on the message board must know who I am. I suspect that rather few - if any - know who you are..................

.

I live in Caithness and I neither know of, or care about, you or your family. And I care even less about your outdated narrow-minded parochial attitude.

So lets get this straight, you denounce posts from anyone who does not live in Caithness...and you live in bloody Toronto!!!
Rank hypocrisy. Hoisted on your own petard.

Wake up Richard, there are sections on the .org for all activities and interests.
You a seem to be labouring under the impression that once in Caithness all should be sweetness and light, and no-one should speak on subjects that are inflammatory or lead to conflict.
Perhaps you could start your own website and then you'd be free to moderate out any 'undesirables', personally I think this site does a fine job of allowing contentious issues and opinions to be sounded without going too far.....

Believe it or not, the fine community that is Caithness harbours the same amount of intolerance, vindictiveness and aggression that is reflected on this website and across Scotland. We don't all spend all day discussing nothing but each others neeps and nodding sagely when someone can recite the family history of everyone in the village. We're a part of modern Scotland, warts an' all. Live with it.

This may come as a suprise to someone who sees Caithness as a land of halcyon days, but there is something rotten in the state of Caithness.

Have you seen how many houses in Wick have had rocks through their windows? Have you stood in the Balti House takeaway on Bridge Street on a night-time and listened to the foul-mouthed racial abuse that is hurled at the staff by some of these drunken Caithnessians who, according to you, are all part of a 'culture of tolerance'?

How about the suspected arson attack that gutted a house on Girnigoe St yesterday? Perhaps we shouldn't mention it - we wouldn't want to create the wrong impression about Caithness, would we? Any comments on the increasing amount of drug abuse, thefts and acts of vandalism and violence?

Perhaps you need to look at your own level of intolerance before you spout off about anyone else.

And, just so you know, I happen to disagree with a lot of what Percy says, but I'm damned if I'm going to let someone come stomping in and start trying to dictate who shall be allowed to say what and when.

Get a job as a Moderator on this site if you think you've got a better idea than anyone else on what subjects we should or should not talk about.[disgust]

Kenneth
21-Oct-08, 18:51
Shame on me? I think not.
Shame belongs to the majority of the half a million under thirty five year olds who are on long term incapacity benefit due to 'mental illness'. Because most of 'em are swinging the lead.

The true depressives might buck up a bit when the hunger pangs pang.
I concede there are a few tortured souls who are not much use to anybody...much less themselves and yes, we owe them a roof, three squares and a bed. That's about it as far as I'm concerned. Throw in a sympathetic pseudo-professional ear if you wish. The taxpayer can stand it after all.

I'm aware you may see me as a hard hearted, unfeeling oaf .
It takes all sorts


Mate that's ridiculous! Depression is an actual illness mate, my pops is a social worker, he had to deal with plenty of people who suffer from it, its not "oh just cheer up" and they are sorted! course he is only pseudo-professional, and social workers ach they dont much really do they! do you know ANYTHING about depression? How do you know most of em are swingin the lead? You're talkin genuine rubbish pal.

rich
21-Oct-08, 18:57
HR4 - so you want to confine discussion to "the topic."
Ah, yes, the topic.
What a broken backed, whining useless shell of a thing that topic is.
And how upset you are when your topic du jour is attacked!
Let me examine the background to the pain that I have caused you by squishing your little sterile runt of a topic.
It is because - and I made this point a while back - these topics never change. It'sthe old hand-me -down set of prejudices from the loony right.
Here we go again. And again. And again. And again: Somebody got served by a Greek in a fish and chip shop or by a Pakistani in a shoe store or by a bus conductor from the Caribbean and your are MAD you are MAD as hell and you are not going to take it any more.
Can anyone reason with this sort of hysteria?
HR4 and PT please, I beg of you, make an ex-patriot's day for him: GO AWAY.

percy toboggan
21-Oct-08, 18:59
JU: thanks, butI do not recall saying foreigners 'have stolen our jobs' certainly not in the last couple of years anyway. If you can point out such a statement from me I'll be surprised. It is possible to steal something nobody wants though but that's a mere detail...sometimes one doesn't realise what one has until it's gone.

I don't especially enjoy being your Aunt Sally but at least others are spared from your rambling attacks...which are less than savage. I'll not complain to anyone at your 'raving lunatic' comment but you do seem to take my words ever so much to heart. If you really think I'm nutty as a fruitcake then best ignore me dear.

If not then 'belittle or patronise' all you like, as you seem to enjoy it. It's no doubt assisting your English studies and is a useful vent for the frustration which seems to seethe from your posts. Might I suggest you calm down.

As for Rich...and the accusation that I'm 'besmirching the good name of Caithness' *
I do feel that Sir, is a calumny. Gleeber's post was spot on (it's becoming a habit) and although I have no Caithnessian links I have been here for a long, long time and rather like it. The endless 'multicultural gripes' come from the heart. You may love every aspect of multi-culturalism but many don't...it's unfair of you to seek to silence their fears and concerns. If you want a completely annodine board, or one that will offend nobody you could always set up your own. I'll not expect an invitation.

(* at least I assumed you were addressing me, and if I am wrong then you need to work on your grammatical composition.)

rich
21-Oct-08, 19:11
"Have you seen how many houses in Wick have had rocks through their windows? Have you stood in the Balti House takeaway on Bridge Street on a night-time and listened to the foul-mouthed racial abuse that is hurled at the staff by some of these drunken Caithnessians who, according to you, are all part of a 'culture of tolerance'?

How about the suspected arson attack that gutted a house on Girnigoe St yesterday? Perhaps we shouldn't mention it - we wouldn't want to create the wrong impression about Caithness, would we? Any comments on the increasing amount of drug abuse, thefts and acts of vandalism and violence?

Perhaps you need to look at your own level of intolerance before you spout off about anyone else."

The above is from Northerner. Hello, Northener.
There has always been a current of strong drink and fighting in Caithness; they were at it 300 years ago - go read some Caithness history. As for a suspected arson attack I really couldn't comment because as you point out I am in Canada. The argument that Caithness is a tolerant place is not affected by this information about the Saturday night brawl type culture. You are confusing good behavior with toleration. The type of toleration to which I referred in my post is political, intellectual, cultural and in no way affected by the poor behaviour of local lads with 15 pints in them.
Grow up!

percy toboggan
21-Oct-08, 19:14
There is one rather obvious fact about this that we tend to forget. People contribute to the message board under made up names. If there is a person with Caithness connections who really is called Percy Toboggan then I apologize, Perce old man.


But if you are some drop-in from England whose only connection with Caithness is as a place to conveniently denounce people whose "cultural" mores offend you, then why on earth should I or anybody support your right to what you laughably call "free speech." It is an abuse of free speech. It is hurtful, it is vicious and it seems to be on the rise.

So when you raise free speech as a defence for the tripe you regularly dish out here then I can only say you are trivializing the very notion of free speech.

So I'll tell you what, Percy. Give out your real name and address and e mail and I'll do the same. Well, I'll do it right now. My name is Richard Sutherland, I live in Toronto where I work as a speechwriter and journalist. But I spent my childhood in Thurso where my Dad was a family doctor and for a while, Provost. Many of the people on the message board must know who I am. I suspect that rather few - if any - know who you are.

This is one way we can find out and assess how to deal with you and your tiny band of followers.

I'd like to conclude by raising a pragmatic aspect to this to which we should all be paying attention. The Caithness. org is more than a group of residents and exiles sounding off on the issues of the day. The Org is also the Caithness Brand. It's where outsiders go to see what Caithness is like, to decide if they want to set up businesses in Caithness, or visit for a vacation, it is the public face of the county.

That face is becomes seriously blemished when it is associated with the thinly veiled racism that you bring to the board, Percy.

'Thinly veiled' ? Some might construe that statement as anti-Islamic. Yes! that's how silly the whole mess we call modern 'conversation' has become.

Right...you want me to publish my name and address, e.mail etc. Er...No !

I do not have a 'tiny band of followers' or if I do I never invited any of 'em and they can get lost. I plough my own furrow, here and elsewhere. I have no need of followers I'm a one man band and I prefer the trumpet.
Anyway, I'm far from worthy, as I suspect are you.

I'm surprised you are a 'speechwriter', because given the quality of your contributions here I wouldn't pay for your words in washers. As I've said before it takes allsorts.

I only saw your above post by chance as do not scroll back through threads vary often.

We are also at variance over the 'Caithness Brand' which I do not recognise. What are you talking about? Caithness is a county, beautiful in parts - particularly around the edges. You appear to be using media speak here. I tend to avoid the commercial world and talk of 'brands' etc.

If your father was Provost of Thurso then he deserves some credit and some respect. This piece of information does not however entitle you to adopt such a haughty tone with me, or anyone else.

So, if and when you find a 'way to deal with me' beyond the customary message board ripostes (at which you are not particularly adept) I hope the others who do share some of my views will form an orderly queue in waiting for their come uppance too.

Some more sensitive soul could take your words as a threat...'thinly veiled' or otherwise.
Be careful.

helenwyler
21-Oct-08, 19:38
PT has a tecnique that he has applied to me every single time I have replied to him [......]: he patronises or disparages you, or failing those, pretends not to understand what you wrote with the implication of your illiteracy.


(in reply to Ju) It's no doubt assisting your English studies and is a useful vent for the frustration which seems to seethe from your posts. Might I suggest you calm down.


ROFLMAO percy. A scriptwriter couldnt have dreamt up a more perfect reply to illustrate patronage and belittlement :lol:.

northener
21-Oct-08, 19:44
Thanks for your reply, Richard. I note that you have now become an apologist for the (thankfully) minority of hard drinking and violent types who live in Caithness. It's nice to know that you view these people as some sort of quaint historical quirk who, presumably, should be tolerated on the grounds that 'they've always done that'.
BTW, many of these wonderful people are not 'local lads with 15 pints in them', they are men and women of all ages. Your father was a Provost, I'm sure that he would be able to back up this statement.

As for history lessons about Caithness, well, I'm actually quite well read on the subject of this fair county. But always willing to learn more. Thankyou.

The subject matter, I believe was Immigrant workers - before we had to sidetrack with your unwarranted (and bizarrely parochial) Orwellian approach to freedom of speech:

I am a 'white settler'. That makes me a member of an immigrant community.

I came here a few years ago and set up my own business. I have been treated with courtesy and respect by the people in Caithness....most of the time. But one doesn't have to go far to find rabid anti-English attitudes in this bucolic idyll that you erroneously assume Caithness to be.

There are people on this very site who would prefer it if a lot of the English went South of the Border. Even though their comments, mistrust and in some cases blatant racism are aimed at me and other English, I have never felt the urge to run around shouting about 'banning' and 'Caithness Branding'. ..it's their opinion and they are entitled to it.

Even though I think they are at best misguided and at worst ignorant planks, I would defend their right to voice their opinion on me. I don't recall you piling in and doing any defending on those occasions Richard...would that be because it was Caithness people doing the criticizing and not some uppity non-local?

As for growing up. I don't need to grow any more, neither physically or mentally, thankyou. I'm 6'2" and a believer in free speech and tolerance of different opinions.

rich
21-Oct-08, 20:02
Percy, I cannot for a moment believe that you believe the Islamicists are on your trail. And if they find your name and address they will blow you up.

I mean give us a break...

This is what it comes down to?

You are scared????

I am disappointed. Encountering you on this thread is like finally meeting the Wizard of Oz - a pitiful fake.

golach
21-Oct-08, 20:08
I am simply reflecting feelings that many of us on the Org have. This seemed as good a place to begin as any.
Your are not reflecting my feelings Rich. Please do not presume so.

rich
21-Oct-08, 20:10
I am not an apoligist for lager louts - I am simply trying to keep things in proportion.

You are right, my father had a regular roster of Saturday night calls to deal with drunks - many of them determined to drive home.

As for the history I believe that 17th centure elections were usually punctuated with gunfire.

You say my attitude is Orwellian. Is that a complement or an insult?

As for my coming to your defence, I had no idea you were being attacked. Sorry!

rich
21-Oct-08, 20:12
I will not presume to make any statements about your feelings. I will try not even to have feelings about your feelings. Good enough?

percy toboggan
21-Oct-08, 20:19
Percy, I cannot for a moment believe that you believe the Islamicists are on your trail. And if they find your name and address they will blow you up.

I mean give us a break...

This is what it comes down to?

You are scared????

I am disappointed. Encountering you on this thread is like finally meeting the Wizard of Oz - a pitiful fake.

..A weak response, confirming my earlier suspicion.
Your scepticism is well held.
I barter my verbalism on here as an escape from the mundaneness
of the fag end of a blue collar working life.
What's your excuse Mr.Journalist? Or do you specialise in hatches, matches and despatches?

Don't expect a reply tonight...I need to bathe & and cut my toenails.

golach
21-Oct-08, 20:24
I am simply reflecting feelings that many of us on the Org have. This seemed as good a place to begin as any.


I will not presume to make any statements about your feelings. I will try not even to have feelings about your feelings. Good enough?
I merely pointed out as one of the "many of us on the Org" you do not reflect my feelings on this issue.
I take little heed of your frequent postings on the Org, as you seem to delight in throwing a verbal pebbles into threads, then you disappear, no doubt laughing at us poor little Orgers, who in your opinion cannot conduct ourselves to your liking in a forum.
You have told Percy to go away, why not take your own advice?

_Ju_
21-Oct-08, 20:26
I am simply reflecting feelings that many of us on the Org have. This seemed as good a place to begin as any.



Your are not reflecting my feelings Rich. Please do not presume so.

Rich did say many,Golach, not all. Those many, as can be gauged by my "vitriol", includes me and a quite few that I know off.

We have a saying back home, that the exceptions prove the rule. What can I say, Percy, you prove this saying wrong........ You are the rule personified that proves the rule. :roll: .......your replies never surprise in their predictability.

rich
21-Oct-08, 20:41
"I barter my verbalism on here as an escape from the mundaneness
of the fag end of a blue collar working life.," P.Toboggan

Oh, dear, I thought it was something like that.

I regret, Percy, I could not create the profile of you I would have like to but I have been called away from my desk. I am sure we can do this later. In fact you can count on it.

joxville
21-Oct-08, 21:01
I couldn't give a damn whether percy is racist or not.....or anyone else for that matter, they are entitled to their opinion-I don't have to agree with it. Isn't that what being of a free society is supposed to mean? As a Jock living in England I get comments every day about my nationality, some complimentary, some offensive but I don't go running to the 'thought police' to complain. To those that are offended by this type of thread-why read it in the first place? As for Rich, I think he took one look at the title and deliberately started a flame war.

Nuff said.

hotrod4
21-Oct-08, 21:04
HR4 - so you want to confine discussion to "the topic."
Ah, yes, the topic.
What a broken backed, whining useless shell of a thing that topic is.
And how upset you are when your topic du jour is attacked!
Let me examine the background to the pain that I have caused you by squishing your little sterile runt of a topic.
It is because - and I made this point a while back - these topics never change. It'sthe old hand-me -down set of prejudices from the loony right.
Here we go again. And again. And again. And again: Somebody got served by a Greek in a fish and chip shop or by a Pakistani in a shoe store or by a bus conductor from the Caribbean and your are MAD you are MAD as hell and you are not going to take it any more.
Can anyone reason with this sort of hysteria?
HR4 and PT please, I beg of you, make an ex-patriot's day for him: GO AWAY.

You dont surprise me Rich as you NEVER stay on topic!
I am only surprised that you havent mentioned your favourite subject yet- Nazi-ism.
Every time there is a discussion you jump in and blame it all on the nazi's! Its due to people like yourself that Godwins law is intended!

And your abhorent disregard for the matter in hand , you try and lead a merry path away from the topic in hand and back to your favourite topic-YOU!!!! [lol]

TBH
21-Oct-08, 21:49
Rich and his family didn't leave here generations ago. Last saw him in my mother's front room in the mid seventies.Okay Gleber2, take the 's' off generations.:roll:

TBH
21-Oct-08, 21:51
maybe you should learn polish hahaMaybe the Polish should learn that language of the country they are working in or is that too radical a concept for you?

sweetpea
21-Oct-08, 22:18
But if you are some drop-in from England whose only connection with Caithness is as a place to conveniently denounce people whose "cultural" mores offend you, then why on earth should I or anybody support your right to what you laughably call "free speech." It is an abuse of free speech. It is hurtful, it is vicious and it seems to be on the rise.

So when you raise free speech as a defence for the tripe you regularly dish out here then I can only say you are trivializing the very notion of free speech.

So I'll tell you what, Percy. Give out your real name and address and e mail and I'll do the same. Well, I'll do it right now. My name is Richard Sutherland, I live in Toronto where I work as a speechwriter and journalist. But I spent my childhood in Thurso where my Dad was a family doctor and for a while, Provost. Many of the people on the message board must know who I am. I suspect that rather few - if any - know who you are.

This is one way we can find out and assess how to deal with you and your tiny band of followers.

I'd like to conclude by raising a pragmatic aspect to this to which we should all be paying attention. The Caithness. org is more than a group of residents and exiles sounding off on the issues of the day. The Org is also the Caithness Brand. It's where outsiders go to see what Caithness is like, to decide if they want to set up businesses in Caithness, or visit for a vacation, it is the public face of the county.

That face is becomes seriously blemished when it is associated with the thinly veiled racism that you bring to the board, Percy.

'Thinly veiled' ? Some might construe that statement as anti-Islamic. Yes! that's how silly the whole mess we call modern 'conversation' has become.

Right...you want me to publish my name and address, e.mail etc. Er...No !

I do not have a 'tiny band of followers' or if I do I never invited any of 'em and they can get lost. I plough my own furrow, here and elsewhere. I have no need of followers I'm a one man band and I prefer the trumpet.
Anyway, I'm far from worthy, as I suspect are you.

I'm surprised you are a 'speechwriter', because given the quality of your contributions here I wouldn't pay for your words in washers. As I've said before it takes allsorts.

I only saw your above post by chance as do not scroll back through threads vary often.

We are also at variance over the 'Caithness Brand' which I do not recognise. What are you talking about? Caithness is a county, beautiful in parts - particularly around the edges. You appear to be using media speak here. I tend to avoid the commercial world and talk of 'brands' etc.

If your father was Provost of Thurso then he deserves some credit and some respect. This piece of information does not however entitle you to adopt such a haughty tone with me, or anyone else.

So, if and when you find a 'way to deal with me' beyond the customary message board ripostes (at which you are not particularly adept) I hope the others who do share some of my views will form an orderly queue in waiting for their come uppance too.

Some more sensitive soul could take your words as a threat...'thinly veiled' or otherwise.
Be careful.


Provocative Percy:lol:

northener
21-Oct-08, 22:18
I am not an apoligist for lager louts - I am simply trying to keep things in proportion.

You are right, my father had a regular roster of Saturday night calls to deal with drunks - many of them determined to drive home.

As for the history I believe that 17th centure elections were usually punctuated with gunfire.

You say my attitude is Orwellian. Is that a complement or an insult?

As for my coming to your defence, I had no idea you were being attacked. Sorry!

You have a strange concept of 'proportion'.........

C17th elections punctuated with gunfire? Along with the rest of the UK....what is your point here?

'Orwellian': posted as an opinion, make of it what you will.

I don't recall commenting on the need for you to 'defend' me personally...you know exactly what I mean.

I note you've conveniently missed out my comments about intolerance in Caithness. Hardly suprising really, as it doesn't fit in with your view of the County you left some time ago. Do you have anything to say about those in Caithness who are intolerant of incomers?

sweetpea
21-Oct-08, 22:21
"Have you seen how many houses in Wick have had rocks through their windows? Have you stood in the Balti House takeaway on Bridge Street on a night-time and listened to the foul-mouthed racial abuse that is hurled at the staff by some of these drunken Caithnessians who, according to you, are all part of a 'culture of tolerance'?

How about the suspected arson attack that gutted a house on Girnigoe St yesterday? Perhaps we shouldn't mention it - we wouldn't want to create the wrong impression about Caithness, would we? Any comments on the increasing amount of drug abuse, thefts and acts of vandalism and violence?

Perhaps you need to look at your own level of intolerance before you spout off about anyone else."

The above is from Northerner. Hello, Northener.
There has always been a current of strong drink and fighting in Caithness; they were at it 300 years ago - go read some Caithness history. As for a suspected arson attack I really couldn't comment because as you point out I am in Canada. The argument that Caithness is a tolerant place is not affected by this information about the Saturday night brawl type culture. You are confusing good behavior with toleration. The type of toleration to which I referred in my post is political, intellectual, cultural and in no way affected by the poor behaviour of local lads with 15 pints in them.
Grow up!


Why should Wick be any different to anywhere else? It's not the vandals or arsenists (sorry for the spelling!)

teenybash
21-Oct-08, 22:24
I am simply reflecting feelings that many of us on the Org have. This seemed as good a place to begin as any.

Just been reading through this thread.....Whew, it's getting hot but, please do not include me in the above quote.....Thankyou.

TBH
21-Oct-08, 22:25
You are all a bunch of racist, homophobic, xenophobic bampots. Not one of you can spell without using a spell-checker and your grammar is atrocious.

northener
21-Oct-08, 22:42
You are all a bunch of racist, homophobic, xenophobic bampots. Not one of you can spell without using a spell-checker and your grammar is atrocious.

Now, now, TBH. You know that it should be 'barmpots':Razz

Anyway, I'm off to bed as there's been a outbreak of peace, love, tolerance and understanding in the Far North....and I want to make sure I don't catch it.....

Kenneth
21-Oct-08, 22:45
Maybe the Polish should learn that language of the country they are working in or is that too radical a concept for you?

Une. maybe i was having a joke
deux. maybe that concept of joking was too crazy for you, maybe i am mr crazy mccraze from crazytown!
trois. maybe most of the poles iv met have acquired a fairly decent of grasp of what is said to be the one of the most difficult languages there is to learn.

TBH
21-Oct-08, 23:08
Now, now, TBH. You know that it should be 'barmpots':Razz

Anyway, I'm off to bed as there's been a outbreak of peace, love, tolerance and understanding in the Far North....and I want to make sure I don't catch it.....I'm sorry Northerner, much as you would like, you can't get away with saying barmpot in Caithness without being laughed at hysterically/ manically. Peace and love, peace and love. http://www.bowlandcentral.com/forum/images/smilies/ban_000.gif

wifie
21-Oct-08, 23:11
Never mind the bam/barmpots - is this hippy season wi all the peace and love flyin aboot? [lol]
Dunno which I prefer - war and peace or peace and love on 'e forum!

loobyloo
21-Oct-08, 23:40
It seems that these posts always start out quite innocuously and end up in some kind of horrible, right-wing rant against anyone who isn't white, Christian and 'normal'. It's shocking how they degenerate into abuse, name-calling and downright nastiness. Of course racism exists in Caithness, the Highlands, Scotland, the UK, Europe, the World!!! All of us have encountered prejudice in our day to day lives, whether it be because of our colour, gender, religion, whatever. It's difficult to be 'different' in any society, even those that are regarded as tolerant. But I do find the comments on some of these posts disturbing and repetitive (flogging a dead horse, comes to mind). It doesn't surprise me that these prejudices exist but for some reason, seeing it in black in white, written by your neighbours, it makes me feel like 'someone is walking over my grave', as my Granny would say. What a scary world we and our children, inhabit.

TBH
21-Oct-08, 23:41
Une. maybe i was having a joke
deux. maybe that concept of joking was too crazy for you, maybe i am mr crazy mccraze from crazytown!
trois. maybe most of the poles iv met have acquired a fairly decent of grasp of what is said to be the one of the most difficult languages there is to learn.English isn't difficult to learn, I know, Many Polish people have told me this. Their language is much more difficult to learn, they have told me this also.

TBH
22-Oct-08, 00:01
It seems that these posts always start out quite innocuously and end up in some kind of horrible, right-wing rant against anyone who isn't white, Christian and 'normal'. It's shocking how they degenerate into abuse, name-calling and downright nastiness. Of course racism exists in Caithness, the Highlands, Scotland, the UK, Europe, the World!!! All of us have encountered prejudice in our day to day lives, whether it be because of our colour, gender, religion, whatever. It's difficult to be 'different' in any society, even those that are regarded as tolerant. But I do find the comments on some of these posts disturbing and repetitive (flogging a dead horse, comes to mind). It doesn't surprise me that these prejudices exist but for some reason, seeing it in black in white, written by your neighbours, it makes me feel like 'someone is walking over my grave', as my Granny would say. What a scary world we and our children, inhabit.These threads always end up as some rant from the moral minority that think they know best. They always slight people that are against unfettered immigration, with cries of racism.

loobyloo
22-Oct-08, 00:09
These threads always end up as some rant from the moral minority that think they know best. They always slight people that are against unfettered immigration, with cries of racism.

I'm not ranting, although I can rant with the best of them if necessary. My posts are generally pretty short. And I do think that tolerance and love of my fellow human, regardless of where they originated from, is 'best'. I'm not going to trawl through all the previous posts to pick up on what I consider to be racist (IMO). I don't need to. There is NASTY running through this post like a stick of rock. Let's agree to disagree and you can call me a lefty, pinko, commie whatever. I don't mind. I'm old enough and ugly enough to take it and I've been called a lot worse :)

TBH
22-Oct-08, 00:21
I'm not ranting, although I can rant with the best of them if necessary. My posts are generally pretty short. And I do think that tolerance and love of my fellow human, regardless of where they originated from, is 'best'. I'm not going to trawl through all the previous posts to pick up on what I consider to be racist (IMO). I don't need to. There is NASTY running through this post like a stick of rock. Let's agree to disagree and you can call me a lefty, pinko, commie whatever. I don't mind. I'm old enough and ugly enough to take it and I've been called a lot worse :)You misunderstand, I wasn't accusing you of ranting about anything and I would never presume to know enough about your mindset to do so. My apologies if my post came across as such.
I was referring to the fact that there seems to be no opportunity to discuss subjects like this unless it has the agreement of the moral minority.
The nastiness that is running through this thread is coming from those that think they are the moral compass of this site which makes them no better than those they choose to denigrate.

_Ju_
22-Oct-08, 06:23
I couldn't give a damn whether percy is racist or not.....or anyone else for that matter, they are entitled to their opinion-I don't have to agree with it. Isn't that what being of a free society is supposed to mean? As a Jock living in England I get comments every day about my nationality, some complimentary, some offensive but I don't go running to the 'thought police' to complain. To those that are offended by this type of thread-why read it in the first place? As for Rich, I think he took one look at the title and deliberately started a flame war.

Nuff said.


Like everything in life, your freedom has boundries. Where your freedoms begin those of another end. Again: there is a difference between discussing an issue and being insulting/offensive. If you can't see/understand what that difference is, then trying to explain it is a complete waste of time.


I have just realised what a waste of time getting irritated on here is. :lol:

brokencross
22-Oct-08, 10:37
The nastiness that is running through this thread is coming from those that think they are the moral compass of this site which makes them no better than those they choose to denigrate.

I must agree with that and it has happened in other threads.

Usual scenario -
1) A post about a contenious topic
2) A post agreeing wholeheartedly
3) A post agreeing and adding another facet to the debate
4) A post strongly disagreeing with post 1)
5) A wag posts a witticism
6) Original poster responds to 2) to 5)
7) A post in rather outspoken, in over the top terms agreeing with 1),2) and 3)
8) A post which is so far off topic you wonder which planet it came from
9) A post with seriously strong views some of which are near to the knuckle and risque
10) A post calling poster 9) a "phobe" or an "ist" of some sort.
11) A post from the moral guardian and the holder of our moral compass telling us we have no right to have an opinion, or even think thoughts, let alone write about this contenious topic and calling the posts varying terms for rubbish etc
12) 13) 14) 15) All hell breaks loose
16) A post bringing peace, calm and reality back to the topic.
17) A post from the moral guardian who is so high on their high horse they risk vertigo belittling all those who do not follow the moral compass course. Their insult thesaurus going into overload, personal jibes fly in abundance.
18) A post from poster 8) wondering why nobody has commented on their input
19) The wag throws in another witticism to lighten the mood.
20) A post telling the moral guardian where he/she can stick their moral compass...painful and physically impossible
21) 22) 23) 24) Posts with loads of quotes saying "You said this"--"you said that"--"No I didn't read it again"

And so another Caithness.org thread rides into the sunset having being hi-jacked, joked about, insults exchanged.

That is why we keep coming back for more and more. Now where did I put that moral compass??

northener
22-Oct-08, 14:08
Loobyloo, I can see where you are coming from with your post and, up to a point, I could agree with you.

But, surely the fact that the same topics keep rearing their head on this forum should be an indication of just how important they are to some people. The same topics are discussed endlessly in the media - why should the .Org be any different?

Rich's stance that these posts should be moderated out of existance is, to me, fatally flawed in as much that it is a cyber-version of sticking yer heid in the sand. These issues do affect us in Caithness, there are people in Caithness who are not very tolerant of incomers and I believe the .Org is big enough and confident enough to stand comments on these subjects.

If anything, we should be showing, through the .Org, that there are no 'taboo' subjects on here. We want to be seem as a tolerant democratic and forward thinking bunch...unfortunately, that must involve tackling subjects which some of us find offensive or unpalatable.
I've said this many times before on this forum, I do not agree with some of the opinions posted on this forum, but I will defend the posters right to speak freely without being howled down and accused of being whatever 'ism' or 'ist' suits the argument at that time.

I disagree vehemently with Rich over this subject, yet I would not call for his posts to be neutered simply because I find his position intolerable. There lies true chaos.....
.

northener
22-Oct-08, 14:09
I must agree with that and it has happened in other threads.

Usual scenario -
1) A post about a contenious topic
2) A post agreeing wholeheartedly
3) A post agreeing and adding another facet to the debate
4) A post strongly disagreeing with post 1)
5) A wag posts a witticism
6) Original poster responds to 2) to 5)
7) A post in rather outspoken, in over the top terms agreeing with 1),2) and 3)
8) A post which is so far off topic you wonder which planet it came from
9) A post with seriously strong views some of which are near to the knuckle and risque
10) A post calling poster 9) a "phobe" or an "ist" of some sort.
11) A post from the moral guardian and the holder of our moral compass telling us we have no right to have an opinion, or even think thoughts, let alone write about this contenious topic and calling the posts varying terms for rubbish etc
12) 13) 14) 15) All hell breaks loose
16) A post bringing peace, calm and reality back to the topic.
17) A post from the moral guardian who is so high on their high horse they risk vertigo belittling all those who do not follow the moral compass course. Their insult thesaurus going into overload, personal jibes fly in abundance.
18) A post from poster 8) wondering why nobody has commented on their input
19) The wag throws in another witticism to lighten the mood.
20) A post telling the moral guardian where he/she can stick their moral compass...painful and physically impossible
21) 22) 23) 24) Posts with loads of quotes saying "You said this"--"you said that"--"No I didn't read it again"

And so another Caithness.org thread rides into the sunset having being hi-jacked, joked about, insults exchanged.

That is why we keep coming back for more and more. Now where did I put that moral compass??

Or the alternative is endless banality.......

brokencross
22-Oct-08, 14:20
Or the alternative is endless banality.......

Heaven forbid, I am all for people being free to put forward their views and opinions on anything and everything.
I also welcome strong rebuttals but if folk would stay away from personal insults and be constructive in their destrcution of opinions (if you get my drift).

TBH
22-Oct-08, 14:35
The way to try and get posts removed and possibly the subject banned is to constanly level accusations of racism at those you wish to oppose. A cunning stunt but I am on to all you fascist thought police out there. British workers should given priority over Immigrants in the jobs market and Our tradespeople and semi-skilled should be safeguarded against being undercut by Immigrants. So there, stick that in your self-righteous pipes and have a good smoke out of it.

rich
22-Oct-08, 14:44
Norhener re. your comments about this intolerance you are running into. Do you extend this to include the remarks of Percy and Company?
I'd also remind you that Caithness absorbed 100s of families from England during the construction of Dounereay and there were no problems. Caithness also extended a welcoming hand to the US navy.
There are three things you can do with this intolerance you say you are experiencing.
1) Write it all down and send it to the newspapers or local tv - with your name and address and busines, of course.
2) Inform the police with a record of incidents
3) Publicize it on the web site. (But use your name, dont go the Percy route of anonymity.)

northener
22-Oct-08, 15:06
Rich, proper 'incidents' involving me personally can be counted on two fingers. Not much really.
It may come as a suprise to you that on both occasions the persons making the extremely offensive and aggressive remarks were not 'lager louts' but middle aged and, allegedly, 'respectable' members of the community.

What I find more interesting is the almost subconcious level some peoples 'racism' (for want of a better word) works at.

Example: (This has happened on more than a few occasions)

Out for a few beers with friends or driving into town for a night out. The subject of house prices/jobs/Scots nationalism comes up. At some stage, someone blames 'Incomers' for the problems...usually the English - though it must be said that recently the Poles have copped for it regarding jobs.

Nods of agreement and general muttering...and then someone remembers that I'm an incomer too and apologises!

It doesn't bother me really, but I'm relating this to point out that there are more people who see their problems (real or imagined) being caused by immigration than you would intitially think. I honestly believe that if you called anyone of those people a 'racist' or a 'Nazi', they would be mortified at the accusation. I certainly wouldn't call them either of those things.

They think they have a problem and an obvious cause....what's wrong with that? It's their opinion - let them have it.

So we are no different from the rest of Scotland, really. I will agree with you that Caithnessians are tolerant, friendly and easy going...but please do not assume that there is no ill-feeling towards incomers of any description - because in some quarters - there is.

As for writing to the papers/police etc.....nah. Lifes too short to be getting upset with middle aged narrow-minded flat-earthers. They'll be dead in a few years.

rich
22-Oct-08, 15:13
What a thrill this must be for many posters.

You can get up on your soapbox - anonymously of course - and vent.
When told you are talking nonsense - much of it poisonous - you then have the added thrill of defending FREE SPEECH.

You are doing no such thing.

You cannot properly advocate for free speech while concealed behind a nom de plume.

Why not?

Well, think about it - I dont know what special interests some of you may represent, I have no notion of where you come from, of what you hope to achieve, of what you can contribute to Caithness or the Caithness.org. or - and this is even more important - if you represent a special interest.

Free speech cannot be effective without full disclosure

Full disclosure is not in Pecy's book - that's for sure.Trying to find out who Percy really is like watching the dance of the seven veils only uglier So far, we know he is an angry old man who lives in dread of Muslim assassins, which is interesting but is the ORG the place for this paranoia?

I think not.

Should Percy be asked to leave the Board? By all means! But what then if he decides to hang around? Then it is not for me to say, I'd leave that to the higher powers.

Can the org monitors get rid of Percy? Of course they could just as they could clamp a cease and desist order over my big mouth.

That is the reality and it is one that we have all made the decision to accept. Bear that in mind before you wave around the banner of FREE SPEECH. By participating in the Org we have all agreed to suspend - to an extent - free speech.

Also and finally never forget that while free speech may be a desirable goal so to is the freedom to ask obnoxious individuals to be on their way.

FREE SPEECH is a broad principle but one that is always modified in reality - go ask any libel lawyer!

TBH
22-Oct-08, 15:29
Shouldn't you be away burning some books, Rich?:roll:

hotrod4
22-Oct-08, 15:44
What a thrill this must be for many posters.

You can get up on your soapbox - anonymously of course - and vent.
When told you are talking nonsense - much of it poisonous - you then have the added thrill of defending FREE SPEECH.

You are doing no such thing.

You cannot properly advocate for free speech while concealed behind a nom de plume.

Why not?

Well, think about it - I dont know what special interests some of you may represent, I have no notion of where you come from, of what you hope to achieve, of what you can contribute to Caithness or the Caithness.org. or - and this is even more important - if you represent a special interest.

Free speech cannot be effective without full disclosure

Full disclosure is not in Pecy's book - that's for sure.Trying to find out who Percy really is like watching the dance of the seven veils only uglier So far, we know he is an angry old man who lives in dread of Muslim assassins, which is interesting but is the ORG the place for this paranoia?

I think not.

Should Percy be asked to leave the Board? By all means! But what then if he decides to hang around? Then it is not for me to say, I'd leave that to the higher powers.

Can the org monitors get rid of Percy? Of course they could just as they could clamp a cease and desist order over my big mouth.

That is the reality and it is one that we have all made the decision to accept. Bear that in mind before you wave around the banner of FREE SPEECH. By participating in the Org we have all agreed to suspend - to an extent - free speech.

Also and finally never forget that while free speech may be a desirable goal so to is the freedom to ask obnoxious individuals to be on their way.

FREE SPEECH is a broad principle but one that is always modified in reality - go ask any libel lawyer!

You still havent actually commented on the topic!
All I can see is personal attacks, why not as I have stated before Rich, actually post about the topic and not about your specialist subject- YOU!!!

I asked how as an "incomer" to Canada you were treated and how they see immigration,How they deal with it etc,can you not just respond to that and keep to the subject, instead of your crusade againt your nemesis'?
I would more likely read that than a rant :) or are we all "poor" to your Rich [lol]
Couldnt resist that one, he he

wifie
22-Oct-08, 15:49
OK the way I see it the OP did probably put this up for a wee stir. It worked! Yes it is annoying when you cannot be understood but the person taking your order does not necessarily have to come from a foreign country for this to happen, let us be honest. Most folk have a valid point from their personal stance but there is no need for outright attacks on posters. Perhaps I am a bit naive in my thinking but I always try to see the other person's point of view. Again I may be soft here but I like to hear people's opinions on here cos there may just be something I did not think of myself - I might learn something! I think ranters would do well to read their posts first. Mind you there are those who obviously think that they have the moral high ground and there seems to be no stopping them - but unlike a lot of things in life - I find that if I don't enjoy a particular topic on here I just ignore it. Sometimes it pays to be simple! :)

Tristan
22-Oct-08, 16:46
Wifie has a good good point about not being understood in a shop, checkout etc. The employers, who want to make a £ would know that. It is only safe to assume that the people who were serving in Inverness were the best candidates for they minimum wage jobs.

percy toboggan
22-Oct-08, 18:42
I have just realised what a waste of time getting irritated on here is. :lol:

Congratulations...I knew we'd see eye to eye eventually.

percy toboggan
22-Oct-08, 19:08
Rich:
you are another who seems to be fascinated by my contributions here, or are you also Melancholy Man in disguise?

First: that's the first time I've ever been called 'an old man'...yes believe it or not that's true. I'm happy with the nomenclature, but I'm possibly not quite as 'old' as you suspect. Do you not have much time for 'old men' then?


Second: You want me 'banned' apparently. If you can find a handful of others to agree with you then let them support you publicly on here and I'll happily consider a disappearing act. There is a part of me that thinks I'm unqualified to be here at all really, but still I stay. A few people find me cogent, a few more find me funny some of the time. I do attempt humour often, unlike yourself.

For you Rich, are a humourless drone. How many messages and feedback comments do you get saying you've given people a good laugh? Not many I'll wager. I do not take the comments here very seriously, and the fact you do is weighing heavily on your shoulders. Lighten up and allow others their opinion. Be it ever so 'umble it is mine and the only one I've got. Furthermore it is every bit as valid as yours...moreso when expressed on issues concerning these islands...I live 'ere.

I appear to represent the proverbial red rag to you Rich. I can live with it because frankly you strike me as something of a gobby bore , but if there are a few others - regular posters - who support your
wish to 'get me out' I'll consider my position and might just make you a very happy man, for Rich you clearly are not one of those at the moment.

Now....I'm off out for a while but will be back with couple of bottles of Old Bob...but you probably wouldn't like that either.

I 'll be back.

brokencross
22-Oct-08, 19:52
What a thrill this must be for many posters.

You can get up on your soapbox - anonymously of course - and vent.
When told you are talking nonsense - much of it poisonous - you then have the added thrill of defending FREE SPEECH. Thrill???


Well, think about it - I dont know what special interests some of you may represent, I have no notion of where you come from, of what you hope to achieve, of what you can contribute to Caithness or the Caithness.org. or - and this is even more important - if you represent a special interest.
So, so true - I am sure Caithness.org is being monitored by M.I.5 for subversives, urban terrorists AND all those who dare to have an opinion which differs from yours, or doesn't meet your approval.


So far, we know he is an angry old man who lives in dread of Muslim assassins, which is interesting but is the ORG the place for this paranoia?
There is that royal WE again. I know or presume nothing of the sort. NB I can think and speak for myself.


Can the org monitors get rid of Percy? Of course they could just as they could clamp a cease and desist order over my big mouth. I know where my vote would go, (not that you are the slightest bit interested)


By participating in the Org we have all agreed to suspend - to an extent - free speech.
Pardon, what, eh....am I missing something?


FREE SPEECH is a broad principle but one that is always modified in reality - go ask any libel lawyer!
Hate to be picky but shouldn't that read moderated (and not modified) and as for libel, you are the one who is flinging all the mud around, especially at Percy whose only crime is that he appears to have strong views and is not afraid to express them.

As far as I can see you have made your feelings perfectly clear to one and all, so revisiting the topic with more and more snide comments and put downs is achieving nothing and is basically letting yourself down and weakening any case you had.

_Ju_
22-Oct-08, 20:15
Congratulations...I knew we'd see eye to eye eventually.
Never, Percy. And yes: negative rep. Patronizing, disparaging and insulting post as usual and as usual contribute nil to any thread. First time I have ever given negative rep and I think it's a tool I have to use more.

percy toboggan
22-Oct-08, 20:24
You have given me 'negative rep'??
My back is broad JU but if it works the same way as 'good rep' (the only kind I give)
you can only hand it out to the same person on very few occassions. I have lost count of the number of times I've triesd to 'good rep' someone and the system simply will not let me, because I've already done it in the recent past !

Make a note on your calendar and gird your loins for the next time you can lambast me in the shape of 'bad reputation'.
One minute you say you've seen the folly in getting 'irritated ' and the next minute you're getting 'irritated' again.
What a topsy turvy lady you are.

rich
22-Oct-08, 20:28
I apoloigise Percy for being a humorless drone.

Not all of us were blest by the good fairy who distributed the gift of stand-up comedy as happened around your cradle aeons ago.

Come to think of it if I could have used a little chuckle or two as I ploughed through the barren wastelands of your collected Orgisms.

My objections to you are quite simply expressed - you exhibit an apalling distaste, verging on racism, for people not of the Anglo-Saxon persuasion.

You have, as far as I can find out, no conection whatsoever with Caithness. I think you have washed up here - from where I have no idea.

I gather from a couple of postings that raising this issue of Caithness origins is to fall into the sin of intolerance and the very racism that I denounce. That is on a par with the famous Free Speech gambit delivered a couple of kilometers(it seems) back.

The powers that be on the Org may have decided to put up with you and your knuckle dragging cohort. But dont whine about it when you get boffed by more enlightened Org members.

Finally a word on the topic and my alleged deviation from it. Your postings ARE the topic. I mentioned this in my first posting way on this thread, way, way back. Your postings are nasty and discriminatory and a blight on the landscape.

And it really is news from nowhere from Mr. Nobody. So,come on Perce - drop that veil.
I'm waiting....

percy toboggan
22-Oct-08, 20:28
oh and Ju...
it's best not to use swear words when giving any form of 'rep' because it tends to belittle your argument. You call me b 'patronising' , whiuch I think has become your very favourite English word.

How would you say 'patronising' in your native language? I'm genuinely curious. (leave out the cussing though)

rich
22-Oct-08, 20:35
Cornered, Perce takes refuge in a slur, Happens every time....

percy toboggan
22-Oct-08, 20:36
I apoloigise Percy for being a humorless drone.

Not all of us were blest by the good fairy who distributed the gift of stand-up comedy as happened around your cradle aeons ago.

Come to think of it if I could have used a little chuckle or two as I ploughed through the barren wastelands of your collected Orgisms.

My objections to you are quite simply expressed - you exhibit an apalling distaste, verging on racism, for people not of the Anglo-Saxon persuasion.

You have, as far as I can find out, no conection whatsoever with Caithness. I think you have washed up here - from where I have no idea.

I gather from a couple of postings that raising this issue of Caithness origins is to fall into the sin of intolerance and the very racism that I denounce. That is on a par with the famous Free Speech gambit delivered a couple of kilometers(it seems) back.

The powers that be on the Org may have decided to put up with you and your knuckle dragging cohort. But dont whine about it when you get boffed by more enlightened Org members.

Finally a word on the topic and my alleged deviation from it. Your postings ARE the topic. I mentioned this in my first posting way on this thread, way, way back. Your postings are nasty and discriminatory and a blight on the landscape.

And it really is news from nowhere from Mr. Nobody. So,come on Perce - drop that veil.
I'm waiting....

Quiet day at the office Rich? or is it lunchtime? What's on yer butties?

As it happens I seldom 'wash-up' anywhere apart from me own kitchen sink when Mrs T. won't use the machine (I can't fathom it out)

Your apology is timely, but I doubt it's sincere somehow.

He's a real 'no-where man, sitting in his no-where land'
'aye it might be true...I'm just an honest Joe like so many others with the temerity of an opinion which challenges the tunnel thinking of úber -Liberal, sandal wearing creeps who like to use terms like 'knuckle-dragging'

Yep, I may down here in the gutter, but at least I'm looking up at the stairs.

(think about it big-boy)

p.s. where's an umlaut when you need one - (TBH - help!!)

percy toboggan
22-Oct-08, 20:41
Cornered, Perce takes refuge in a slur, Happens every time....

I was going to give you some good rep for that comment - just for the sheer hell of it.

It's nonsense of course...are you really a Journalist?..perhaps you emigrated because standards in the New World are not quite as high as here...it was an avenue I wanted to explore but sadly never really got the chance.

My efforts to rep you were thwarted as you have 'disabled' your feedback system. Judged redundant I presume, surplus to requirements.

brokencross
22-Oct-08, 20:57
I was about to post on the "Flu Jab" thread that if your Tesco had a pharmacy you can buy and get your jab for £5-00 (and believe it or not staff get their discount).

So I looked up the Tesco Wick page to see if a pharmacy....No there isn't. But I did see something of "interest" bearing in mind the initial topic of this thread...Poles...if you scroll down to Product Range and look at the product on the right it is relevant in a tenuous way to this thread.
http://www.tesco.com/storelocator/access/details.asp?bID=5330&l=W

Boozeburglar
22-Oct-08, 21:05
lady you are

mysoginistic?

wifie
22-Oct-08, 21:07
mysoginistic?

???
Pass you a bigger spoon BB?

Boozeburglar
22-Oct-08, 21:10
hey, i just say what I see!

percy toboggan
22-Oct-08, 21:11
mysoginistic?

I'm hoping there might have been a smiley with that comment bb.
You may have inadvertently summed up , in a single word just what is going on here with Rich..and to a lesser extent Ju.

The former is almost (to me) unfathomable in his responses, the latter just seems very, very cross...all of the time.:confused

wifie
22-Oct-08, 21:16
hey, i just say what I see!

Ok so show me what you saw? Where is the misogyny?

Boozeburglar
22-Oct-08, 21:16
The former is almost (to me) unfathomable in his responses, the latter just seems very, very cross...all of the time.:confused

But do they make love Just Lke A Woman?

joxville
22-Oct-08, 21:24
I apoloigise Percy for being a humorless drone.

You have, as far as I can find out, no conection whatsoever with Caithness.


Might I suggest this being useful to you, especially when you claim to be a speechwriter: http://www.dictionarylink.com/ [lol]

wifie
22-Oct-08, 21:29
Might I suggest this being useful to you, especially when you claim to be a speechwriter: http://www.dictionarylink.com/ [lol]

Brokencross in yer list of how a thread is constructed you forgot the pop-up pedant - thanks for reminding me Jox! [lol] ;)

joxville
22-Oct-08, 21:30
Always glad to be of assistance. :D

hotrod4
22-Oct-08, 21:51
This is becoming so much fun! (not)
Rich:
Why wont you actually answer the questions that I have asked?
It is OK for you to look down on others with your "grammarly correct" spell checker but you still havent contributed anything?
Slagging each other off all the time is boring, so please Rich can we deviate back to the topic?

Can you at least answer the questions about immigration that I asked? After all as a journalist isnt it fair to see both sides of a story,Or are you one of those gutter press types?

JoeSoap
22-Oct-08, 22:02
Why wont you actually answer the questions that I have asked?
[...]
Can you at least answer the questions about immigration that I asked?
As you seem to think questions should be answered, let me see if I can't drag this back on topic a little...


Now you’re getting me confused. I thought she wasn’t able to speak the language? Are you saying that she read the order back to you but made a mistake when putting it on the tray?

Out of interest, were you charged the correct amount for your initial order?

percy toboggan
22-Oct-08, 22:19
MacD's and BK's always leave me feeling a little empty.
This thread has managed to do the same.
I'd be happy to be served by a Pole in Scotland , maybe less so in England because there is a population decline in Scotland.....I think there are positives behind Polish immigration into the UK. There are a few negatives too but they are navigable with goodwill on both sides.

I come into contact with Poles on a weekly basis, and find them interesting, helpful and friendly. Exclusively young, and eager to learn English when I examine their language with them. Some of them are okay on fork-lifts too...some are not. All of them try.

I've been sat here most of the night - my wife has been out and I didn't fancy the telly. The thread has reminded me that some people are very strange, and a few who claim otherwise are far less tolerant than I am.

I'm off to me kip, and bid you goodnight.

p.s. Rich - I do not remember asking about your bp. If I did it was a mistake. I could not care less.

TBH
22-Oct-08, 22:40
p.s. where's an umlaut when you need one - (TBH - help!!)
Have some umlauts on me:
use the numeric key-pad, press and hold alt and type the corresponding mumbers.

alt plus 132 ä
alt plus 137 ë
alt plus 148 ö
alt plus 225 ß
alt plus 129 ü
alt plus 142 Ä
alt plus 153 Ö
alt plus 154 Ü

Or click on Start then Programs then Accessories then System tools and finaly Character Map. copy and paste what you need.

TBH
22-Oct-08, 23:02
This is becoming so much fun! (not)
Rich:
Why wont you actually answer the questions that I have asked?
It is OK for you to look down on others with your "grammarly correct" spell checker but you still havent contributed anything?
Slagging each other off all the time is boring, so please Rich can we deviate back to the topic?

Can you at least answer the questions about immigration that I asked? After all as a journalist isnt it fair to see both sides of a story,Or are you one of those gutter press types?
What is a grammarly correct spell-checker?[lol]

squidge
22-Oct-08, 23:19
Eeh there is nothing like a good race row to coax my old soapbox from under my bed, you can guarantee percy and the like will throw in some "scroungers" and "loonies" to make me feel like climbing back up on it and joining in the row..... Well... I havent the energy to get embroiled in the bitchy back biting that is going on but i am pondering what it is about the jobs the migrant workers are doing that make hotrod so worried...

Lets offer analternative scenario.... 13 year old rushed into hospital with appendicitis... its burst, he is treated in A and E by english, scottish, east european and spanish ( i think) nurses and doctors. He is operated on by a scottish surgeon with a team of multi cultural theatre assistants, an English consultant and at least one apparently far eastern sounding doctor. He is nursed by irish and scottish and english and other nationalities and the ward is cleaned by a lovely polish girl who is also studying to be a nurse.

Four weeks later he is back with a blocked bowel - very poorly he is dealt with in the middle of the night by an east european doctor, a foreign porter, a radiographer is called to get up and do x rays and is from nigeria i think... He is operated on by a lovely middle eastern gentleman with again a multi cultural team and nursed once again by a variety of wonderful caring professionals.

Can you guess what i did this summer???? We have been back twice since with after effects and complications and I am so grateful to them all. Its been upsetting and stressful but less so because everyone has been so helpful and caring. He is on the mend now for those who are wondering.

Migrant workers are vital to so many areas of our economy - the health service included. Those who are truly 'migrant' will migrate elsewhere as the economy sinks into recession and the low paid jobs become less and unemployment rises. They came here to WORK they wont stay to doss around for the vast sum of whatever Jobseekers allowance is these days. Most are single with no dependants and will move on to richer pickings.

Finally the lack of imagination of those people who play the "immigrants out" card never fails to elicit a wry smile. We have heard the end of civilisation as we know it foretold over the last 60 years with monotonous regularity in the face of immigration from Ireland; Eastern europe - yep folks ukranians and poles did move here in numbers in the past;West india; Pakistan; Bangladesh; India; Uganda; Vietnam; and so on and so on... Its immigration that makes our country so culturally rich and interesting. ITs prejudice and social breakdown that makes it unpleasant and desperate.

Hmmm I wonder if now i have started i willbe able to go to my bed??????:roll:

Oddquine
23-Oct-08, 03:57
[quote=Angela;447564]Shame on you, percy.

Clinical depression is a serious and horrible illness. When I was a child my aunt was incarcerated in Craig Dunain on the ground of 'depression'. She wouldn't be now of course, because most of the 'loony bins' as you put it, were closed down years ago.

Your placing 'depression' in inverted commas' suggest you don't believe it's real. Try telling that to someone who's suffering from it. It bears virtually no relation to feeling a bit fed up or sad or not feeling like getting out of bed in the morning, or any other of the things people who are mentally healthy refer to as being 'depressed'.

And no, someone suffering from severe depression can often not 'flip a burger or clear dead leaves.' Apart from the fact that they are ill, not criminals, to be set menial jobs that other folk don't want. Quite why you feel the situation is different for someone over the age of 35, I cannot understand.
quote]

Shame on me? I think not.
Shame belongs to the majority of the half a million under thirty five year olds who are on long term incapacity benefit due to 'mental illness'. Because most of 'em are swinging the lead.

The true depressives might buck up a bit when the hunger pangs pang.
I concede there are a few tortured souls who are not much use to anybody...much less themselves and yes, we owe them a roof, three squares and a bed. That's about it as far as I'm concerned. Throw in a sympathetic pseudo-professional ear if you wish. The taxpayer can stand it after all.

I'm aware you may see me as a hard hearted, unfeeling oaf .
It takes all sorts.

As someone who suffers from depression......but isn't claiming benefits...and someone who knows you from elsewhere, Percy...........you are a hard hearted, unfeeling oaf................and it doesn't HAVE to take all sorts.........just those who are hard hearted, unfeeling oafs.

Though I must say you are the same wherever you go.

hotrod4
23-Oct-08, 06:45
As you seem to think questions should be answered, let me see if I can't drag this back on topic a little...

Ok Joe I Apologise for not answering, fairs fair.

She did read the order back to me as I ordered it, bit by bit.
What I cant understand was the fact that my order was on the screen for her to check as is normal for all BK restaurants. Maybe she found reading it hard, I dont know. What I do know is that I wasnt the only one that day who had problems with the order as a couple next to us with their kids got theirs wrong as well! MAybe she was new to the job I dont know, but by speaking to her polish pal for help is hardly integrating into the community, maybe if she had asked for help from an english speaking person the order may have been Ok and it would have helped her in the grasp of our language.

Let me stress this: I am not against any race,religion or creed but I do think that the government need to halt the numbers that are allowed into the country at present.We are in a recession and by letting unknown numbers through all it will do is push what little is left for natives to the maximum.

hotrod4
23-Oct-08, 06:54
I'd be interested in the sources for this "fact"?

This from the BBC:
The Metropolitan Police has been considering positive discrimination as a way of speeding up the recruitment of black and Asian officers.

The idea was put forward by the Metropolitan Black Police Association (MBPA), to make the force more representative of London's racial mix.

Such a plan would mean changing the 1976 Race Relations Act.

In 2002-03, 9.8% of recruits were from ethnic minorities, but by 2009 this must be 25.9% under government targets.

brokencross
23-Oct-08, 08:09
If a person from Poland is a Pole
Why is a person from Holland not a Hole

JoeSoap
23-Oct-08, 12:15
She did read the order back to me as I ordered it, bit by bit.
What I cant understand was the fact that my order was on the screen for her to check as is normal for all BK restaurants. Maybe she found reading it hard, I dont know. What I do know is that I wasnt the only one that day who had problems with the order as a couple next to us with their kids got theirs wrong as well! MAybe she was new to the job I dont know.
A couple of maybes there for somebody who was so certain earlier:


served by a Polish girl who got my order way wrong because she couldnt grasp the English language.
[…]
I cant understand how an employer can give someone a job if they can barely speak our language.
So she did get your order right when she put it in the till and you did get charged the correct amount. Where she went wrong was in putting the food on your tray then?

Forgive me if Burger King has drastically changed the way it serves food recently, but as I recall their food comes either in a generic cardboard box or wrapped in a generic sheet of paper. The content of each box/wrapper is determined by which ‘slot’ they are put in at the pass. Contents are further distinguished by marks made against a series of pictures on the outside (a slice of cheese, an onion, etc).

As she took your order correctly but then didn’t deliver the correct food, is it not possible that it was her understanding of Burger King's pass or these hieroglyphs rather than her understanding of English which was flawed? Is it not also possible that the food was simply delivered to the wrong slot at the pass and that none of this was her fault at all? Is it possible that she was distracted (I neither know nor care what by) and made an honest mistake?

You may like to think that your motives here are not racial ones, but let’s face facts: there is any number of reasons why you got the wrong order that day – you just chose to believe that it was because the woman serving you was a foreigner and you rejected all other possibilities.

Bazeye
23-Oct-08, 14:52
Isnt having a Black Police Association a little bit racist? Imagine if there was a White Police Association. The tabloids and the BBC would have a field day. Remember racism cuts both ways.

hotrod4
23-Oct-08, 15:58
A couple of maybes there for somebody who was so certain earlier:


So she did get your order right when she put it in the till and you did get charged the correct amount. Where she went wrong was in putting the food on your tray then?

Forgive me if Burger King has drastically changed the way it serves food recently, but as I recall their food comes either in a generic cardboard box or wrapped in a generic sheet of paper. The content of each box/wrapper is determined by which ‘slot’ they are put in at the pass. Contents are further distinguished by marks made against a series of pictures on the outside (a slice of cheese, an onion, etc).

As she took your order correctly but then didn’t deliver the correct food, is it not possible that it was her understanding of Burger King's pass or these hieroglyphs rather than her understanding of English which was flawed? Is it not also possible that the food was simply delivered to the wrong slot at the pass and that none of this was her fault at all? Is it possible that she was distracted (I neither know nor care what by) and made an honest mistake?

You may like to think that your motives here are not racial ones, but let’s face facts: there is any number of reasons why you got the wrong order that day – you just chose to believe that it was because the woman serving you was a foreigner and you rejected all other possibilities.

Sorry Soapy but you are wrong.

It wasnt that she gave me the wrong food as such it was the fact that she forgot 2 items from my order and then proceeded to give a "kids meal" without the trimmings.

She also managed to give my missus hers with mayo on even though the order clearly stated "No mayo" as she is allergic. It was written on the receipt that it was no mayo. It is very easy to read burger king wrappers it has a line through mayo, no need for language skills there!!!! Its a jar of mayo with a line through it, or maybe she can speak limited english but cant actually read the word "mayo"? That way she was trying to do the orders from memory as maybe she cant read English? which is probably the reason she got it wrong, which is my point exactly.

As stated earlier there was another couple near us and she got theirs way wrong as well, The man even said to his wife that he had to repeat himself 3 times before she eventually pushed the right buttons on the till, but she still got it wrong. He commented to his wife that it was ridiculous that Burger King are employing people who cant understand plain English.

And with regards to local accents and understanding isnt the Invernessian accent regards as one if not THE clearest version of the Queens tongue? and this Family were Invernessian.

Tar me with the "Racist" brush if you so wish, but I know what I meant and I know how I feel. I am not and have never been Racist, I beleive in Racial equality but I dont believe in Mass Immigration into a Country that is bursting at the seems with Immigrants.

Anne x
23-Oct-08, 16:13
Dont mind Indian food but Goulash is just plain stinking and wrong on so many levels!!! [lol]

Take it then you did not make my Hungarian Goulash Recipe on the board or was it that awful ?
I see from the Eating places you frequent you are used to a higher Quality of food :confused

TBH
23-Oct-08, 16:19
Sorry Soapy but you are wrong.

It wasnt that she gave me the wrong food as such it was the fact that she forgot 2 items from my order and then proceeded to give a "kids meal" without the trimmings.

She also managed to give my missus hers with mayo on even though the order clearly stated "No mayo" as she is allergic. It was written on the receipt that it was no mayo. It is very easy to read burger king wrappers it has a line through mayo, no need for language skills there!!!! Its a jar of mayo with a line through it, or maybe she can speak limited english but cant actually read the word "mayo"? That way she was trying to do the orders from memory as maybe she cant read English? which is probably the reason she got it wrong, which is my point exactly.

As stated earlier there was another couple near us and she got theirs way wrong as well, The man even said to his wife that he had to repeat himself 3 times before she eventually pushed the right buttons on the till, but she still got it wrong. He commented to his wife that it was ridiculous that Burger King are employing people who cant understand plain English.

And with regards to local accents and understanding isnt the Invernessian accent regards as one if not THE clearest version of the Queens tongue? and this Family were Invernessian.

Tar me with the "Racist" brush if you so wish, but I know what I meant and I know how I feel. I am not and have never been Racist, I beleive in Racial equality but I dont believe in Mass Immigration into a Country that is bursting at the seems with Immigrants.The ordering thingy, posty thing was superflous as you could still have had a communication problem even if her english was perfect. She could have been an Invernessian and still get your order wrong because she may not have understood your particular accent.
The crux of the matter is that you are against uncontrolled immigration, maybe you should have got to that point from the start.

Angela
23-Oct-08, 16:45
As someone who suffers from depression......but isn't claiming benefits...and someone who knows you from elsewhere, Percy...........you are a hard hearted, unfeeling oaf................and it doesn't HAVE to take all sorts.........just those who are hard hearted, unfeeling oafs.

Though I must say you are the same wherever you go.

Well, Oddquine, I have never had reason to meet Percy anywhere other than on this forum, but thank you for replying to Percy's post that replied to mine!

I hesitated to reply because for some time now I've held a long cherished hope that Mr Toboggan might not be as described above. Sadly his latest postings about mental illness and benefits have forced me to give up on that idea.:(

I have suffered from moderate to severe depression throughout my life but have never claimed a penny in benefit as a result. Not everyone is able to recover from mental ill health without taking time off work however.

I can see that people who are mentally ill (or in Percy's view only 'claim' to be so) are just the latest group for him to blame for the ills of a society he feels alienated from. Ignorance of their condition is no obstacle.

No doubt he'll be back to 'put me right" there though!

joxville
23-Oct-08, 17:07
How often have you read newspapers that always have a 'social commentator'? Max Hastings, Jane Moore, Richard Littlejohn, Martel Mackenzie, Kelvin Mackenzie or Bill Leckie to name a few that we sometimes agree or disagree with. Percy is no different from any of them, apart from not being paid for what he writes.

It is his opinion, how he sees the world around him, and whether you think he is racist or not, or whether you think he is speaking out of turn regarding mental illness, it is still his right to say what he wishes without libeling anyone. Also, as has happened many times in the short while I've been on the org, there is always someone on hand who will be quick to counter his opinion.

This site allows pretty much any subject to be discussed-it's called debate. If you don't like what you read, either respond to it or ignore it but don't ever suggest someone has no right to an opinion.

hotrod4
23-Oct-08, 17:33
The crux of the matter is that you are against uncontrolled immigration, maybe you should have got to that point from the start.

What? Why get to the point when you can beat about the bush for twa days [lol]
Maybe I should put up a list of my likes and hates that way everyone would get the point! (That would make it too easy for them in the long grass with the telescopic sights ;))

JoeSoap
23-Oct-08, 17:38
It wasnt that she gave me the wrong food as such it was the fact that she forgot 2 items from my order and then proceeded to give a "kids meal" without the trimmings.
Oh yes, all very clear signs of a language deficiency.

Or perhaps forgetfulness?

Or perhaps just what happens when you are new at a job?


maybe she can speak limited english but cant actually read the word "mayo"? That way she was trying to do the orders from memory as maybe she cant read English? which is probably the reason she got it wrong, which is my point exactly.
And that is my point exactly. Thank you for illustrating it.

I have never – never – been to a Burger King, McDonalds or KFC where, having placed my order, the person serving me has then printed off the receipt and used it as a reference whilst collecting the order from the pass. The most I’ve ever seen them do is come back to the till and quickly remind themselves what was ordered.

From what you’ve told me, this woman took your order and read it back to you. She then tried to collect your order from memory and forgot that you’d asked for something without mayo. She also forgot to give you the ‘trimmings’ for your kid’s meal.

The way that you leapt from those two lapses in memory to your assertion that she “couldnt [sic] grasp the English language” is, frankly, a damning insight into the way your mind clearly works.


As stated earlier there was another couple near us and she got theirs way wrong as well, The man even said to his wife that he had to repeat himself 3 times before she eventually pushed the right buttons on the till
And, again, is it not possible that she is fairly new at the job and was looking for the right buttons to push whilst this man repeated himself in the assumption that she didn’t understand him?

I know you’d rather believe otherwise, but is it not at least a possibility?


I am not and have never been Racist, I beleive in Racial equality but I dont believe in Mass Immigration into a Country that is bursting at the seems with Immigrants.
Yet with all of these immigrants, Scotland’s population is bursting to the tune of an additional 27,300 people between June 2006 and June 2007. As of August this year, the government prediction for Scotland’s population was that it would grow by a ‘massive’ 250,000 people… in the next twenty-three years.

‘Bursting at the seems [sic]’? Hardly. More diverse than you are comfortable with? Certainly seems that way. [disgust]

percy toboggan
23-Oct-08, 17:49
[quote=percy toboggan;447762]

As someone who suffers from depression......but isn't claiming benefits...and someone who knows you from elsewhere, Percy...........you are a hard hearted, unfeeling oaf................and it doesn't HAVE to take all sorts.........just those who are hard hearted, unfeeling oafs.

Though I must say you are the same wherever you go.

There's a lot to be said for consistency.
Are you still 'half-cut' ?
I almost wish I was.
I'm not so dreadful as I'm painted (by some) you know. I'm thinking you
have not really mixed with truly nasty people partly because of your self-confessed lack of travel/experiences. There's a lot of 'em about you know.
I don't like them. The only problem with holding views similar to mine is that they are shared, and taken to extremes by oafs.
I consider them less dangerous though than some über-zealots (thanks tbh) on the loony, loopy left.
Partly because they share the intolerance gene, but the 'oafs' are usually
too dense to realise it.

Oddquine
23-Oct-08, 17:57
How often have you read newspapers that always have a 'social commentator'? Max Hastings, Jane Moore, Richard Littlejohn, Martel Mackenzie, Kelvin Mackenzie or Bill Leckie to name a few that we sometimes agree or disagree with. Percy is no different from any of them, apart from not being paid for what he writes.

It is his opinion, how he sees the world around him, and whether you think he is racist or not, or whether you think he is speaking out of turn regarding mental illness, it is still his right to say what he wishes without libeling anyone. Also, as has happened many times in the short while I've been on the org, there is always someone on hand who will be quick to counter his opinion.

This site allows pretty much any subject to be discussed-it's called debate. If you don't like what you read, either respond to it or ignore it but don't ever suggest someone has no right to an opinion.

Nobody is saying he isn't entitled to an opinion....but there are
ways of putting that opinion which won't engender animosity.....but that appears to be beyond Percy.

After all, it doesn't take a degree in English to ameliorate the tone of lines like this,

Benefits (after a twelve month period) should be withdrawn from anyone under the age of thirty five who is claiming to have a 'mental condition' unless they are willing to be placed in a residential hospital - they used to call them 'loony bins' I'm afraid....for it's not a nice term.

Anyone, even a young person suffering from 'depression' can flip a burger or clear up dead leaves. No work - no money!

or this

Shame belongs to the majority of the half a million under thirty five year olds who are on long term incapacity benefit due to 'mental illness'. Because most of 'em are swinging the lead.

The true depressives might buck up a bit when the hunger pangs pang.
I concede there are a few tortured souls who are not much use to anybody...much less themselves and yes, we owe them a roof, three squares and a bed. That's about it as far as I'm concerned. Throw in a sympathetic pseudo-professional ear if you wish. The taxpayer can stand it after all.

It just takes a modicum of consideration for their impact on others.

But then Percy doesn't do consideration...that wouldn't get him the attention for which he is looking.

hotrod4
23-Oct-08, 17:59
Oh yes, all very clear signs of a language deficiency.

Or perhaps forgetfulness?

Or perhaps just what happens when you are new at a job?


And that is my point exactly. Thank you for illustrating it.

I have never – never – been to a Burger King, McDonalds or KFC where, having placed my order, the person serving me has then printed off the receipt and used it as a reference whilst collecting the order from the pass. The most I’ve ever seen them do is come back to the till and quickly remind themselves what was ordered.

From what you’ve told me, this woman took your order and read it back to you. She then tried to collect your order from memory and forgot that you’d asked for something without mayo. She also forgot to give you the ‘trimmings’ for your kid’s meal.

The way that you leapt from those two lapses in memory to your assertion that she “couldnt [sic] grasp the English language” is, frankly, a damning insight into the way your mind clearly works.


And, again, is it not possible that she is fairly new at the job and was looking for the right buttons to push whilst this man repeated himself in the assumption that she didn’t understand him?

I know you’d rather believe otherwise, but is it not at least a possibility?


Yet with all of these immigrants, Scotland’s population is bursting to the tune of an additional 27,300 people between June 2006 and June 2007. As of August this year, the government prediction for Scotland’s population was that it would grow by a ‘massive’ 250,000 people… in the next twenty-three years.

‘Bursting at the seems [sic]’? Hardly. More diverse than you are comfortable with? Certainly seems that way. [disgust]



I think its safe to assume that whatever I post you are going to turn it into some kind of "hidden agenda" that you insist I have.(you are so wrong)

Would you lile a scalpel for your next disection, alot more painless than all that cutting and pasting! [lol]

I dont like the immigration situation at present and thats it, nothing more nothing less. I dont mind people from different countries, dont have a problem with them.
I am not Racist, never have been, just hate seeing immigrants get special treatment over nationals. With housing shortages at record levels how come their is always accomodation for immigrants while locals are still on the list?
This happened in Wick, so its not a far flung place!

Look at the Afghan women the other week who was getting massive housing benefit for her and her brood, would HER Country do that for any of us if we moved over there? NO CHANCE

You can qoute as many figures as you wish figures can be doctored to reflect the outcome.
I believe what I see not what I think I see.

JoeSoap
23-Oct-08, 18:05
Look at the Afghan women the other week who was getting massive housing benefit for her and her brood, would HER Country do that for any of us if we moved over there? NO CHANCE
Oh no, please... really? You're going to use that story to attack immigration?

You didn't get what was happening with that story in the slightest, did you? Let me guess: Dail Mail?

hotrod4
23-Oct-08, 18:10
Oh no, please... really? You're going to use that story to attack immigration?

You didn't get what was happening with that story in the slightest, did you? Let me guess: Dail Mail?

Fraid not-The Sun actually.
Dont like the immigration situation at present and nothing will change my point of view on it,its my opinion and thats it.

JoeSoap
23-Oct-08, 18:14
Fraid not-The Sun actually.
Well, I guess it was 50/50.


Dont like the immigration situation at present and nothing will change my point of view on it,its my opinion and thats it.
Heavens no, only a fool would ever claim to have an open mind when listening to an opposing argument. No, wait... that's not right...

I believe we're done here and I bid you good day.

hotrod4
23-Oct-08, 18:15
Well, I guess it was 50/50.


Heavens no, only a fool would ever claim to have an open mind when listening to an opposing argument. No, wait... that's not right...

I believe we're done here and I bid you good day.

Thanks for that. MUch appreciated old boy.
I bid you a good day. :)

Sapphire2803
23-Oct-08, 18:30
My opinion (which I found down the back of the sofa, so don't expect too much)

To answer the original question, yes I believe we are forced to be too multicultural. By that I don't mean that I don't like people from other cultures to move here, but what I object to is only being able to voice my concerns about the actions of other "white british folk", because the second I say a wrong word about an immigrant, I am labelled a racist. Yet they can say what they flippin like about me. :roll:

When I am a customer in a shop in an English speaking country I expect the person serving me to have a level of English which is sufficient to allow them to do their job. I don't mind repeating myself if what I say is unclear. I may have to do that with anybody.
Language barriers aside, I expect a person to be able to do the job that they are employed to do.

I think (I may well be wrong) that these are the things Hotrod was complaining about in the first place, but maybe he could have worded it better. Although the "offence taking brigade" were coiled and ready to pounce, so he was probably stuffed no matter how he worded it.

hotrod4
23-Oct-08, 18:36
My opinion (which I found down the back of the sofa, so don't expect too much)

To answer the original question, yes I believe we are forced to be too multicultural. By that I don't mean that I don't like people from other cultures to move here, but what I object to is only being able to voice my concerns about the actions of other "white british folk", because the second I say a wrong word about an immigrant, I am labelled a racist. Yet they can say what they flippin like about me. :roll:

When I am a customer in a shop in an English speaking country I expect the person serving me to have a level of English which is sufficient to allow them to do their job. I don't mind repeating myself if what I say is unclear. I may have to do that with anybody.
Language barriers aside, I expect a person to be able to do the job that they are employed to do.

I think (I may well be wrong) that these are the things Hotrod was complaining about in the first place, but maybe he could have worded it better. Although the "offence taking brigade" were coiled and ready to pounce, so he was probably stuffed no matter how he worded it.

That is exactly what I meant but it I suppose I left myself open for attack.

percy toboggan
23-Oct-08, 18:44
I have suffered from moderate to severe depression throughout my life but have never claimed a penny in benefit as a result. Not everyone is able to recover from mental ill health without taking time off work however.

I can see that people who are mentally ill (or in Percy's view only 'claim' to be so) are just the latest group for him to blame for the ills of a society he feels alienated from. Ignorance of their condition is no obstacle.

No doubt he'll be back to 'put me right" there though!

I know you to be an intelligent woman. Do you, as such, think it reasonable to assume that half a million under 35 year olds are genuinely suffering - legitimately- from 'depression' or stress related mental illnesses thus qualifying fore incapacity benefits? When I heard these figures I instinctively thought it was a mistake...I checked...and as far as I could establish the numbers are correct .

I tend to call a shovel a shovel Angela and although I could tart language up, and often do, sometimes the truth needs to be told in a way that's blunt enough to register, and even evoke agreement.

I'm sorry you have been 'depressed' though I'm not surprised. I hope you feel better now. I applaud you for your work ethic, which I share. We'll get no thanks for it, but the pay off comes in our own morality, our attitudes and our wage packet.

There is an element of cross-threading here & I apologise to others for it.

percy toboggan
23-Oct-08, 18:50
How often have you read newspapers that always have a 'social commentator'? Max Hastings, Jane Moore, Richard Littlejohn, Martel Mackenzie, Kelvin Mackenzie or Bill Leckie to name a few that we sometimes agree or disagree with. Percy is no different from any of them, apart from not being paid for what he writes.

It is his opinion, how he sees the world around him, and whether you think he is racist or not, or whether you think he is speaking out of turn regarding mental illness, it is still his right to say what he wishes without libeling anyone. Also, as has happened many times in the short while I've been on the org, there is always someone on hand who will be quick to counter his opinion.

This site allows pretty much any subject to be discussed-it's called debate. If you don't like what you read, either respond to it or ignore it but don't ever suggest someone has no right to an opinion.

A first class post and the voice of real reason.
A social comentator I am, and I really enjoy it.
I won't mention the cheques that flow my way though.


p.s. definitely don't mention cheques....it could be construed as racism by certain people.
I'm joking anyway...I'm purely an amateur columnist and for the record I simply adore Czechoslovakia and its people. The 'velvet' revolution was one of my nineties highlights. I well remember the dawn of Dubczek and the cruel Soviet repression of 1967 - ish.

hotrod4
24-Oct-08, 06:45
As this thread has seem to run its course I am closing it now.
Many thanks to all who contributed whether I agreed with you or not, all points of view are valid to someone and I respect that.
Cheers