Dupuytrens Contracture

[landmarker]

Okay - bit of a long shot this one.
This condition is of the hand and causes the ring finger or/and the little finger to claw into the palm. Usually there are benign tumours which cause lumps in the palm or at the base of the fingers affected. It is endemic in Scandinavia and it's reckoned that Vikings were particularly afflicted with the disease. Many excavated corpses have been found to have been affected. I just wondered if there is much of this in the Caithness area, given it's Viking heritage. It affects men more than women, usually in middle age or older. It is also linked with diabetes though by no means always, and alcohol consumption - I hear the Vikings liked the odd nip.

Strangely the disease is unheard of in places like Africa or India. It is definitely a condition 'of the north'

I admit a vested interest. I've had surgery to both hands to correct this. It is inconvenient, needing two months off work and uncomfortable rather than painful. The huge clumpy bandage is the worst bit, especially in warm weather.

So, have you suffered the condition, or know anyone who has?
All replies treated in confidence <chuckle>

[cullbucket]

Are you sure its not from all those hours spent at the wheel?

[connieb19]

Okay - bit of a long shot this one.
This condition is of the hand and causes the ring finger or/and the little finger to claw into the palm. Usually there are benign tumours which cause lumps in the palm or at the base of the fingers affected. It is endemic in Scandinavia and it's reckoned that Vikings were particularly afflicted with the disease. Many excavated corpses have been found to have been affected. I just wondered if there is much of this in the Caithness area, given it's Viking heritage. It affects men more than women, usually in middle age or older. It is also linked with diabetes though by no means always, and alcohol consumption - I hear the Vikings liked the odd nip.

Strangely the disease is unheard of in places like Africa or India. It is definitely a condition 'of the north'

I admit a vested interest. I've had surgery to both hands to correct this. It is inconvenient, needing two months off work and uncomfortable rather than painful. The huge clumpy bandage is the worst bit, especially in warm weather.

So, have you suffered the condition, or know anyone who has?
All replies treated in confidence <chuckle>I know someone who has this condition. She has had 2 operations now to correct it. the last operation wasn't successful and the finger is now stuck straight out, which she finds worse than before. Im pretty sure she had a toe removed too..

[Whitewater]

I know several people in the area who suffer from this condition, one or two of my bowling friends suffer from it and it makes life very awkward for them, and they have to lay off from time to time. It perhaps wouldn't be so bad if it affected only one finger but it appears to affect several and at different times, hence several small ops and the lay off. I guess it is fairly common in the area. Unable to comment on the Viking link, but it does make sence.

[landmarker]

..... Unable to comment on the Viking link, but it does make sence.

Yes, experts agree it usually means Viking genes. I took some small consolation in this when I missed out on sixteen weeks pay :-(

SSP = £60 a week - not good.

thanks for the replies folks.

[Julia]

My Grandfather (Caithness born) suffered from this problem, he had surgery but as far as I remember it did not help much and his finger was always curled in toward his palm.

[krieve]

I knew a lady who had this condition she also had treatment did'nt help much she had diabetes and she also liked a dram.

[golach]

Both my Father and one of my Uncles had this syndrome, My father I am sure called it "Ploughmans Hand" for some reason, both had worked on a farm at one time or another so maybe thats is why he called it so. Both were Caithness born and bred

[landmarker]

That's interesting - I can see why 'Ploughmans Hand' might be used as a term. It also suggests that it was quite common - in an agricultural community.

I'm told (yesterday) that it hasn't quite gone away in me left hand.
This wasn't such a long shot after all.

We often have a laugh about it 'cos we remember that old t.v. series 'the Invaders' (deserted diner on a lonely road etc.etc. David Vincent???remember? The only way to spot the aliens was a bent little finger. I could have had a role lol.

[ice box]

I know of someone that has this and there a brickie they say it because they have working with cold blocks also fishing men can get it too working with the creels and hauling cold wet nets its like white finger you dont notice at first it just creeps up over the years .

[landmarker]

It can be very aggresive once it starts off.
For the genetic connection check this out and scroll halfway down the page.
Margaret Thatcher had it!! I thought we had nothing in common....such is life.

http://www.pncl.co.uk/~belcher/information/Fasciectomy.pdf

[phoenix]

My pinkie on my right hand is bent and has a small lump on the knuckle...........does that mean Im an Alien:{ It does look knid of Alienated from the rest of my fingers like it has a mind of its own, doesnt caues me any problems though. Only that I seem to have gone a bit dyslexic all of a sudden:}

The condition you speak of though landmarker must be a bit of a pain you have my sympathies, not very nice!

[landmarker]

My pinkie on my right hand is bent and has a small lump on the knuckle...........!

Is the lump on the inside of the finger, or on the palm?
What age are you - if I may ask?
Male or female?
Is it bent from the middle joint inwards?
If so you are probably an alien but yer in good company - apart from Maggie ;-) Bill Nigh has it - bad.

[phoenix]

Youre getting a bit personal Landmarker:} My pinkie is bent from the middle joint inwards, the lump is on the knuckle, I do have Viking blood in me, Im middle aged, female, I dont drink {sometimes I do} and thats all Im telling you.:} I knew I was different from other people :} Im quite happy being an Alien though I dont mind:}

Whos Bill Nigh?

[angela5]

I know of someone that has this and there a brickie they say it because they have working with cold blocks also fishing men can get it too working with the creels and hauling cold wet nets its like white finger you dont notice at first it just creeps up over the years .

I noticed you mentioned white finger. I often thought this was to do with circulation...am i right? i've noticed the last few winters i've been getting white fingers only 2 on 1 hand mind you... the cold plays a big part in it as it does'nt affect me in the warmer weather.

[ice box]

I noticed you mentioned white finger. I often thought this was to do with circulation...am i right? i've noticed the last few winters i've been getting white fingers only 2 on 1 hand mind you... the cold plays a big part in it as it does'nt affect me in the warmer weather.
white finger is when the nerve enddings in the fngers are damaged by vibration usually if working tools ie hilti drillls, jumping jacks, concrete air pokers in cold damp conditions it starts of with tinggling feeling in the finger tips and then by time you lose the feeling but not all people will get this usually people in the construction trade .

[angela5]

white finger is when the nerve enddings in the fngers are damaged by vibration usually if working tools ie hilti drillls, jumping jacks, concrete air pokers in cold damp conditions it starts of with tinggling feeling in the finger tips and then by time you lose the feeling but not all people will get this usually people in the construction trade .


Well im no in the construction trade...yes it does feel tingly, strange..

[JAWS]

Pooh Pooh, try Googling "Vibration White Finger" which is an Industrial Injury.
i'm not sure just what kind if machinery causes it but it might be worth a check.

On Julia’s point about her grandfather's operation, I'm not sure how they treat the problem now but I think the old treatment was to lock the finger in either a straight or a completely curled position.
I suppose the decision about which was done depended on whether you wanted it curled "completely out of the way" or straight "because it wasn't as noticeable".

Do you know if a better solution has been found landmarker? Or do they now take the attitude, "the cure's as bad as the problem, you'll just have to live with it."

[angela5]

Pooh Pooh, try Googling "Vibration White Finger" which is an Industrial Injury.
i'm not sure just what kind if machinery causes it but it might be worth a check.

Thanks JAWS i will have a look.

[Kenn]

I am intrigued by this..I'm not from Caithness.but have crooked fingers on both hands which is a generic thing within the family.Fortunately none of the 4 fingers..the little one and the ring finger next has ever developed any sort of lump or arthritis.
I have always believed myself to be of Celtic stock but know that in the distant past The Vikings did not only raid but may have settled in my home county.
Will follow this thread with interest.

[Chillie]

Pooh Pooh, try Googling "Vibration White Finger" which is an Industrial Injury.
i'm not sure just what kind if machinery causes it but it might be worth a check.

On Julia’s point about her grandfather's operation, I'm not sure how they treat the problem now but I think the old treatment was to lock the finger in either a straight or a completely curled position.
I suppose the decision about which was done depended on whether you wanted it curled "completely out of the way" or straight "because it wasn't as noticeable".

Do you know if a better solution has been found landmarker? Or do they now take the attitude, "the cure's as bad as the problem, you'll just have to live with it."


I have a pal who had this problem in both hands and he was a brickie all his life, he went in for surgery and they cut the tendon's in each affected finger, don't know what they did to the tendon's but it worked for him he can now wiggile all his fingers.:cool:

[JAWS]

I have a pal who had this problem in both hands and he was a brickie all his life, he went in for surgery and they cut the tendon's in each affected finger, don't know what they did to the tendon's but it worked for him he can now wiggile all his fingers.:cool:
Thanks for clarifying that Dumbo. I think I'm right about the old method of treatment which I seem to recall was 40 years ago.
I can't quite remember if they didn't shoot people with broken legs then but that might have just been horses.
I thought that a new treatment might have been developed since then.
I'm sure that the people who have an operation for it are glad things have changed.
I would hate to have had to make a decision as to whether having my little finger curled up or sticking straight out was better.
Which ever you chose it must have got in the way at sometime.

[Lavenderblue2]

Yes I have this condition in the palms of both hands - it can be very painful and restricting at times.

Yet the doctor told me that I have to wait until my fingers get drawn right down before I can have the operation. My Mum had it in her pinkies and so did a couple of her brothers.

I had heard that it was an inheritance from our Viking ancestors.

LB

[landmarker]

Whos Bill Nigh?

Sorry to get personal.....

Do a google, image search, I'm sure you'll recognise him.
Auf Widersehen Pet seires 3 / Still Crazy?/ Love Actually

Late middle aged actor enjoying an indian summer for his career.
p.s. I'd get that finger seen to, it's not going to get any better.

[landmarker]

[QUOTE=JAWS]Pooh Pooh, try Googling "Vibration White Finger" which is an Industrial Injury.
i'm not sure just what kind if machinery causes it but it might be worth a check.

QUOTE]

Pneumatic drills, vibrating pokers et al

[landmarker]

I would hate to have had to make a decision as to whether having my little finger curled up or sticking straight out was better.
Which ever you chose it must have got in the way at sometime.

Indeed, but I'll spare you the detail.
The only treatment is a fasciectomy - surgery which involves an extensive cut, sometime long sometimes not. It's worse when the little finger is affected. Both of my hands have three inch scar on the palm extending into a skin grafted area at the bottom of the little finger. These are not completely straight even now.The cut extends zig-zag like up the finger to the top joint. Being so many nerve endings in the hands and fingers they are never quite the same after surgery. The surgery is the only way of stopping the fingers eventually completely clawing into the palm. They reach a stage where they 'drag' the ring finger and even the middle finger down with them.

The skin grafted is taken from the wrist usually. It involves about two months off work - depending on your job. It's done under general anaesthetic.

I had to wait two years for the first op. & nine months for the second. N.H.S.

[Fran]

this is also a sign of diseases, especially of the lungs which is very strange.

[phoenix]

Sorry to get personal.....

Do a google, image search, I'm sure you'll recognise him.
Auf Widersehen Pet seires 3 / Still Crazy?/ Love Actually

Late middle aged actor enjoying an indian summer for his career.
p.s. I'd get that finger seen to, it's not going to get any better.

You got me worried now landmarker:} Must admit its been puzzling me since the lump appeared........

[landmarker]

this is also a sign of diseases, especially of the lungs which is very strange.

That's a new one on me Fran.
To Lizz: Celts are also linked to this.
Phoenix: It 'could be worse' is my stock response when people offer sympathy. As diseases go it's one of the better one lurking in my genes.

[phoenix]

That's a new one on me Fran.
To Lizz: Celts are also linked to this.
Phoenix: It 'could be worse' is my stock response when people offer sympathy. As diseases go it's one of the better one lurking in my genes.

I noticed this today.... Im a smoker, cigarette held between index and middle finger, ring finger and pinkie were curled in towards palm while smoking. I had never noticed this before. Not sure is it because of this thread and reading about the condition. Just wondered if there was a link with the way a cigarette is held between the fingers? I did read that it was linked to smoking and drinking. Maybe in a few 100 yrs time if humanity lives that long there will be people born with cupped hands that will not stay still due to the fact that we as a generation are sat at computers with a mouse in our hand:} The Celts are linked to this too thats interesting........I remember reading years ago that it was because of the Celts that depression was such a common illness, cant remember why this was though. Ill bet the Vikings and the Celts werent thinking at the time wed better not do that incase our children and our childrens children suffer. If that is the case why cant it be removed from the memory/genes or whatever, surely we dont or shouldnt have to suffer for the sins of our fathers or mothers? Im rambling on here ............ just a thought:}

[landmarker]

........I remember reading years ago that it was because of the Celts that depression was such a common illness, cant remember why this was though. Ill bet the Vikings and the Celts werent thinking at the time wed better not do that incase our children and our childrens children suffer. If that is the case why cant it be removed from the memory/genes or whatever, surely we dont or shouldnt have to suffer for the sins of our fathers or mothers? Im rambling on here ............ just a thought:}

Weren't the Celts scattered to the periphery of these islands. After a few centuries subjugated by the Romans I think they were overwhelmed by the Angles, Saxons & Jutes. Not to mention the Vikings from the north.I think after that lot turned up I'd be a bit depressed meself !

Anyway this finger thing does have a tenuous link with alcohol, but you'd have to be genetically pre-disposed anyway to develop it. Did I say it is unheard of in warm climates. Black people & brown people do not have it.
I's also linked with diabetes but again, by no means everyone with diabetes gets it.

I'd get it checked out soon. NHS waiting lists being what they are.

[Errogie]

Hi everyone, brought up in Thurso and this is my first attempt on the message board but prompted by the fact thatthe little finger of my right hand has been bent from the first joint at 29 and a half degrees for the last 5 years. It makes for a very polite cup of tea but otherwise no handicap although I think it is now starting to lean in a bit!

I discovered a much more interesting origin for the condition (and if you have to a complaint it may as well be an interesting one). Apparantly it originates from the island of Raasay between Skye and the mainland where the Macrimmons were legendary pipers to the Clan Macleod and had a piping college. One of the Macrimmons upset an old lady (caillach) who cursed him and told that his fingers would curl up so that he could no longer play the pipes and that the condition would be passed on to his sons and to their sons children. And so it was!

When I went to see the surgeon about my complaint he knew the story but not his young trainee. So far it poses no practical problems and as it is my fiddle bow hand it actually has put the finger in the right attitude for a good bow grip. No need to consult the medics again yet either.
Funnily enough my toes have also been bent east and west from childhood but I'm told the two are not connected.

[JAWS]

For those who do not currently have the problem I have a bit of good news for you.

They cause is definitely not either smoking, even to excess, or drinking, even to excess.

As any other person of some eminence would say. :p That is a statement, I will be taking no questions! (I think that's how it's done)

What? Who said does eminence mean idiot?

There are only two types of finger problem caused by alcohol.
One is caused by severe cramp from hanging on to the bottle too tightly.
The other is caused by getting your fingers trodden on whilst making your way home!

Seriously though, I suppose alcohol could make the problem show up if it's already there but was not noticeable.
If that happened then alcohol could appear to be the cause I suppose.