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Saveman
25-Sep-08, 12:28
I'm doing a bit for work about the travelling folk in the North of Scotland.

Are there any orgers of traveller blood? Anyone know anymore of the history of Caithness travellers?

Melancholy Man
25-Sep-08, 12:31
Naturally you'll know, Saveman, but I'll stress that the Tinkers are separate from the Gypsies/Roma (although there may be individual cross-overs).

riggerboy
25-Sep-08, 14:05
tinkers is a shortened down word from the tinklers, a group of people tha used to come into the towns and villages selling pots,pans and other stuff from the horse and cart, i rememver reading some where that the horse and cart made a tinkling sound as it was traveling along so hence the name the " the tinklers "

Torvaig
25-Sep-08, 14:28
I'm doing a bit for work about the travelling folk in the North of Scotland.

Are there any orgers of traveller blood? Anyone know anymore of the history of Caithness travellers?

http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=2713&highlight=tinklers

This is one thread you can look at; there are others so just key in "travellers", "tinklers" etc. to "search" and you will get more of the same.....
There are also some excellent books on the subject but I am not sure if there are any about the Caithness folks.

Saveman
25-Sep-08, 16:02
The more I read about this the more fascinating a story it becomes. Does anyone know if there were ever any Roma in Caithness?

It seems a percentage of the native travelling folk (if that makes sense) may have come from clearances and evictions. It also seems they've been the subject of discrimination, even in Caithness.

Torvaig
25-Sep-08, 16:10
The more I read about this the more fascinating a story it becomes. Does anyone know if there were ever any Roma in Caithness?

It seems a percentage of the native travelling folk (if that makes sense) may have come from clearances and evictions. It also seems they've been the subject of discrimination, even in Caithness.

When we were young we had travelling people coming to our primary school in the summer months and they used to camp in a quarry with their tents, ponies etc., and one of the women used to speak in a different tongue which we were told was Romany. She smoked a pipe and I seem to remember her as always wearing a lot of white but maybe it was just her head wear. She was the matriarch of the group and when she died her caravan was burned as was their custom.

The men would work on the farms at various jobs such as hay making, lifting potatoes etc., and the women would go round the doors selling wooden clothes pegs from baskets. We liked those clothes pegs; they could be dressed up as dolls! They also wanted "rags" and we were told that they had somewhere to sell them. Who says we started the recycling.....

Torvaig
25-Sep-08, 16:14
Loving this thread but I must go and prepare for going away on holiday. I'm going traipsing all over the place and will need to pack a few things!
I will probably pop back for a wee whiley tonight though....;)

Alice in Blunderland
25-Sep-08, 16:20
A friend of my dads is the son of one of the last of the Tinklers in Wick.

He was born in a wagon in a quarry in Wick. Hillhead Primary now stands there.

Tinklers were so called my dad believes because of their trade. They made thier products from Tin, tin cans, tin cups. This they then sold around the doors from their wagons.

They lived a very poor existence and were shunned by the locals as untrustworthy and not of any social standing, but often proved to be the opposite.:)

balto
25-Sep-08, 16:33
i mind seeing pictures think it was on here in a previous thread, seeing how the mcphee's used to live it is amazing living in caves around the coast. will have a look to see if i can find it.

balto
25-Sep-08, 16:37
found it the thread is called cave dwellers in wick, not sure how to post the link in here, but thats what it is called. makes interesting reading.

trix
25-Sep-08, 16:44
auld basher (rest in peace) selt pots an pans so i guess he wis a tinkler...

he used til cycle on his bike til lybster so i guess he wis a traveller asweel :lol:

trix
25-Sep-08, 16:48
auld spiders crowd (rest in peace) slept in caves at 'e north baths, there are pictures o' them in one 'o 'e auld kait'ness books.

its these types o' people that gied 'iss toon character all 'at years ago. they may hav hed no £s but they could catch a rab'id in 2 seconds flat an catch a fishy wi their bare teeth ;) (probly at 'e same time)

balto
25-Sep-08, 17:18
auld basher (rest in peace) selt pots an pans so i guess he wis a tinkler...

he used til cycle on his bike til lybster so i guess he wis a traveller asweel :lol:
was that basher that had the shop at the top of dempster street or am i of somewhere else again.:lol:

Tighsonas4
25-Sep-08, 17:27
we got various types of travellers a while back remember them in the quarry at hillhead also in the cove at broadhaven.
there was a tinker and a brownbull all i could see was the latter being bigger and diffferent features
you also got the lonerwho was usually one who had opted out of society
the older ones could speak what was known as the cant
we had a private tec here who learnt it and could speak it fluently not handy if they happened to be in the nick
think theres a book on it in the library
at nicht ye could hear the skirl of the pipes in hillhead quarry cheers tony

trix
25-Sep-08, 18:25
was that basher that had the shop at the top of dempster street or am i of somewhere else again.:lol:

aye, yer richt enuf...

unicorn
25-Sep-08, 18:45
here is an example of cant http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9474/gypsycant.html
I had an aunt who was fluent in talking cant.

percy toboggan
25-Sep-08, 18:51
All I know is that most of the travelling groups I have come across leave a strinking festering mess behind them without any regard at all for the environment.

Still, the council clears it up.

I have some time for 'new age travellers' and have had good times with one or two of their ilk. The gneuine Romany Gypsies seem a responsible bunch.

I respect non-conformists so long as they have little impact upon the conformists.

My Son , who had a job delivering building materials in the East English Midlands reports a lot of trouble from these 'Irish' descended travellers. Including hi-jacking his truck at 8-00am on St. Pat's day when they were all as drunk as skunks. They would often pester him to sell diesel from his company vehicles tank - perish the thought.
Many of them seem to live outside the law as it applies to the rest of us, with no repercussions for theft, untaxed vehicles etc.
I hope you have better experiences in the far north.

Tighsonas4
25-Sep-08, 19:36
no percy were talking many moons ago
sad to say times have changed and were left now with the same ilk you mentioned up here regards tony

Nvidi4
25-Sep-08, 19:39
Saveman we have a book called The Summer Walkers by Timothy Neat! Its about Travelling People and Pearl-fishers in the Highlands of Scotland, have read a bit of it and its very interesting.....If you can get hold of a copy it may help you with your work! :)

Melancholy Man
25-Sep-08, 20:06
'Irish' Travellers, Gypsies and others have been here for centuries (if they ever arrived). Certainly, they were part of the ethnic make-up long before the early 1960s.

And there are still people (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/oct/31/race.world1) who think they should be driven out.

percy toboggan
25-Sep-08, 20:15
Oh I think they must have 'arrived' at some point.
Probably in dribs and drabs...no block bookin's the ferries.
Long before the '1960s' (shall we call that the nineteenth century) the 'ethnic make up' was so very predictable and was hardly diverse enough for the very term to be applied by anyone but the most ardent of observers.

I don't think the Irish are particularly keen on having them back on a permanent basis....nor do I think many would shed tears at their leaving.

Whenever they leave their annual camp in Oldham they always leave behind about forty or so three piece suites, strewn all over the industrial estate which is also littered with bin-bags containing human excrement. Not nice.
Do you?

northener
25-Sep-08, 20:19
I bought 'Summer Walkers' as a present for my father a couple of years back as he had some ties with travelling people in England and is very interested in their way of life.

I haven't got to read it myself yet, but the old boy is very impressed with it. A good buy.

Melancholy Man
25-Sep-08, 20:31
Oh I think they must have 'arrived' at some point.

Any time after 10,000 BC.


Long before the '1960s' (shall we call that the nineteenth century) the 'ethnic make up' was so very predictable

Considering you go on to distinguish between Britain and Ireland, it's safe to assume you're giving diddly-squat consideration to the Irish migration of the mid 19th Century.


and was hardly diverse enough for the very term to be applied by anyone but the most ardent of observers.

Alternatively, the idea of race is a recent construct... indeed, the term hails from the social Darwinism of the 19th Century... and certainly before the Modern Period, and as late as the Industrial Revolution and beyond, someone from outwith the immediate area was considered just as foreign as one from a different continent.

David Carradine has stated that differences between different social classes (again, social Darwinism) were as distinct as national differences are now. The voters in at least two constituencies in the 1890s preferred to have a high-born Indian representing them than giving the vote to lower-class men.


I don't think the Irish are particularly keen on having them back on a permanent basis....

Why on Earth should the Irish be required to accept the Roma/Gypsies?


Whenever they leave their annual camp in Oldham they always leave behind about forty or so three piece suites, strewn all over the industrial estate which is also littered with bin-bags containing human excrement.

Gad, it's always about you, isn't it? In your experience. What happened to your son. What you want to return to. That you did not vote for something.

percy toboggan
25-Sep-08, 20:35
Yep! it's always about me.
I've only my eyes, brain and opinion.
When I work out what you're all about I'll let you know.

Incidentally I consider the Irish, the English...Scottish and Wales are all the same ethnicity...British Isles ethinicity.

We ain't just talking about Roma Gypsies - keep up.

Mclaren
25-Sep-08, 20:49
Two other books well worth reading are "The yellow on the broom" and "Red rowans and wild honey" by Betsy Whyte. She also recorded a number of programmes for radio scotland about her life sometime in the eighties I think.
She came from a true traveller familey based in Brechin, but she talks about comeing to caithness as part of there travelling route on horse and cart.

Melancholy Man
25-Sep-08, 21:00
You're so vain, you probably think the thread is about you, don't you, don't you!


When I work out what you're all about I'll let you know.

Simple. You're a reactionary racist who thinks people of three hundred years ago had the same perceptions and opinions as you do. You're one individual in a country of 60 millions plus, over 90% of whom are at the end of a genetic line which was present here a century ago.

Lots of people in this country did not vote for or agree with policies which have been enacted, but live with it. So should you.


Incidentally I consider the Irish, the English...Scottish and Wales are all the same ethnicity...British Isles ethinicity.Well, like just about everything you have to say about race, you're wrong. They're classified as separate ethnicities.


We ain't just talking about Roma Gypsies - keep up.Which, had you a fleeting ability to parse my sentences, you'd have seen that I accepted from the start. You, however, lumped everyone being discussed into one group which the Irish wouldn't be willing to take back.

You also announced that few would shed a tear for their passing - posture, presuming to speak for an entire country. People whose forebears may have been in Edinburgh and Aberdeen in the 15th Century, even arose auto-chthonic from these islands' genetic base.


Whenever they leave their annual camp in Oldham they always leave behind about forty or so three piece suites, strewn all over the industrial estate which is also littered with bin-bags containing human excrement.

Not something a good Aryan would do (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7632507.stm), of course.

percy toboggan
25-Sep-08, 21:40
Quote MM<You're so vain, you probably think the thread is about you, don't you, don't you!>

nope...I'm not a Gypsy or a tinker (most would agree)....but I did like the song (F/Mac c.1982)


Simple. You're a reactionary racist....

I bet you say that to all the guys

Lots of people in this country did not vote for or agree with policies which have been enacted, but live with it. So should you.

Right then.

Well, like just about everything you have to say about race, you're wrong. They're classified as separate ethnicities.

Not up here there not <percy points to own head>

Not something a good Aryan would do (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7632507.stm), of course.

Oh, I dunno, I'm no expert. You seem to labour under the impression I am some kind of Nazi sympathiser whereas I really think they were absolutely beastly.

I actually found a book (honest Guv'nor) amongst the detritus of our consumerist society last week called 'Uniforms of the Third Reich'! They kitted out their coalminers a treat...so much better than the rags many of ours were reduced to by 1936. Still...no excuses for attempted world domination and the subsequent carnage I'm sure.

One wonders if you yourself are not really a bit closet on this one. Would you like me to send it to you ? More pictures than text...you might enjoy it.

Haweswater
25-Sep-08, 22:37
All I know is that most of the travelling groups I have come across leave a strinking festering mess behind them without any regard at all for the environment.

Still, the council clears it up.

I have some time for 'new age travellers' and have had good times with one or two of their ilk. The gneuine Romany Gypsies seem a responsible bunch.

I respect non-conformists so long as they have little impact upon the conformists.

My Son , who had a job delivering building materials in the East English Midlands reports a lot of trouble from these 'Irish' descended travellers. Including hi-jacking his truck at 8-00am on St. Pat's day when they were all as drunk as skunks. They would often pester him to sell diesel from his company vehicles tank - perish the thought.
Many of them seem to live outside the law as it applies to the rest of us, with no repercussions for theft, untaxed vehicles etc.
I hope you have better experiences in the far north.
I'm sorry to have to challenge this comment, but it is characteristic of a view held by many otherwise reasonable people across the UK. The truth is that there is no evidence to indicate any higher a level of criminalty amongst Travellers - particularly the Irish Travelling community - than that found within the settled population. That, by the way, is a fact with its origins in a policy report issued by the Association of Chief Police Officers Scotland (ACPOS). I agree - some Travellers do leave behind sites in a less than desirable state, but they are a minority. Discrimination against Travellers, be they Roma, Scottish or Irish, is morally and legally unacceptable, yet despite that, they continue to be marginalised simply on grounds of their unique heritage. It is often worth remembering that over half a million Roma and Sinti men, women and children were murdered in Nazi death camps throughout Europe during the late 1930's and during World War II - simply for being 'social outcasts'.

Melancholy Man
25-Sep-08, 22:51
Absolutely Haweswater. I would only quibble that the figure of half a million dead in the Porajmos is likely a gross under-estimate because of poor census records due to their outcast status. Plus, the same violent racism still exists across Eastern Europe and the Balkans.


You seem to labour under the impression I am some kind of Nazi sympathiser {...}My word, are you getting rattled, Percy? This thread was about the history of semi-nomadic and itinerants in this country, with no personal opinions expressed either way. You blunder in and change the discussion to the most ill behaved undefined group you can think of with the inference, both here in and in your standard fare, that the 'established' population would never do such.

I give you an example of a mob which thinks it represents the established population on this continent and behaves in the same way. Others may have read that I was suggesting it a problem with gits, but you think I'm associating you with them!

I have only ever specifically called you a Strasserite, which is most certainly *not* NSDAP! That said, this was too much, as I don't think you have the substance and are simply a house-cat. As demonstrated by these hilariously confused comments:


{...} whereas I really think they were absolutely beastly.How about Richard Littlejohn?


Not up here there not <percy points to own head>Expose yourself to the Smurfs for the Volk (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/latestnews/-Salmond-blamed-for-39cancer.4489962.jp) being encouraged by Salmond and say that again.

Torvaig
25-Sep-08, 23:47
here is an example of cant http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9474/gypsycant.html
I had an aunt who was fluent in talking cant.

Thanks for the link; very interesting. I couldn't remember what the language was called but that is it; cant. :)

Melancholy Man
26-Sep-08, 00:26
Back on-topic, here's (http://www.scottishgypsies.co.uk) an dedicated website. I'm unsure about the interchanging of those bona fide Gypsies who arrived from such entrepôts as Alexandria and the Faa family, whom I'd assumed were Irish Travellers, and the lack of primary research, but it's a start.

Plus, the Little Egypt (http://www.scottishgypsies.co.uk/scotland.html) in Edinburgh is the Morningside district.

joxville
26-Sep-08, 00:32
Whenever they leave their annual camp in Oldham they always leave behind about forty or so three piece suites

At least it helps keeps DFS in business. [lol]

northener
26-Sep-08, 07:54
Thanks for the link; very interesting. I couldn't remember what the language was called but that is it; cant. :)

I'm being pedantic, but i think it's worth saying that 'Cant' isn't a language in itself.

'Cant' is jargon or derivative of language used by a certain group of people. Generally to exclude others from their comunications.

You can have Roma cant and, say, criminal underworld 'Cant'.

Saveman
26-Sep-08, 11:03
It's interesting to note that some "Cant" words have entered our own general speech eg. "muller'd" & "kushti"

Also interesting that one of the first references to travelling folk in Britain I can find is in 1505 a reference to "Egyptians."

Melancholy Man
26-Sep-08, 12:50
Forgetting the difference between a cant and a language, I had thought that kushti came via the Raj. This is not to say, though, that other Punjabi-like words would not have come from the Romani language.

The Egyptians from 1505 would have been the Roma/Gypsies as opposed to Archie Fisher's mates. Although they did not hail from Egypt, one of the principle entry points at the time *was* from the likes of Alexandria.

Kenneth
26-Sep-08, 12:59
I'm sorry to have to challenge this comment, but it is characteristic of a view held by many otherwise reasonable people across the UK. The truth is that there is no evidence to indicate any higher a level of criminalty amongst Travellers - particularly the Irish Travelling community - than that found within the settled population. That, by the way, is a fact with its origins in a policy report issued by the Association of Chief Police Officers Scotland (ACPOS). I agree - some Travellers do leave behind sites in a less than desirable state, but they are a minority. Discrimination against Travellers, be they Roma, Scottish or Irish, is morally and legally unacceptable, yet despite that, they continue to be marginalised simply on grounds of their unique heritage. It is often worth remembering that over half a million Roma and Sinti men, women and children were murdered in Nazi death camps throughout Europe during the late 1930's and during World War II - simply for being 'social outcasts'.

Whilst I agree with most of what you say here.....er....I don't think we've quite got to the stage where we will be murdering thousands of gyspies....

Angela
26-Sep-08, 13:03
Plus, the Little Egypt (http://www.scottishgypsies.co.uk/scotland.html) in Edinburgh is the Morningside district.

Well now, that's something new I've learned before lunchtime! :)

I'd always vaguely wondered, in the old pre-Google days, where Canaan Lane, Jordan Lane and Nile Grove in Morningside had got their names from, but never quite got round to finding out.

We have Little France too, of course....but that's going OT and we wouldn't want to do that! ;)

Kenneth
26-Sep-08, 13:03
And Melancholy man, ur a little too smart for ur own good. look at me i use big words la de da!!

Nvidi4
26-Sep-08, 13:05
It's interesting to note that some "Cant" words have entered our own general speech eg. "muller'd" & "kushti"

Also interesting that one of the first references to travelling folk in Britain I can find is in 1505 a reference to "Egyptians."

Funny you should say that Saveman I was only talking to someone yesteday about that. We had a person in the house who is classed as a tinker/tinkler, after he left we were talking about tinkers and I said that I remembered reading away back that they came form Egypt.....:o)

percy toboggan
26-Sep-08, 18:32
At least it helps keeps DFS in business. [lol]
they descend in the night usually - about thirty caravans or more.
They stay for about a fortnight. Early days a couple of artic loads of three piece suites arrive from Italy. They are well wrapped in polythene & left outside. As the time ticks away they obviously go out flogging them and the new stuff is replaced by auld tat from the homes with the new replacements. When they finally upsticks and go the useless upholstery is of course left behind for the council to clean up. It's a strange sight to behold.

joxville
26-Sep-08, 19:32
I'm doing a bit for work about the travelling folk in the North of Scotland.

Are there any orgers of traveller blood? Anyone know anymore of the history of Caithness travellers?


they descend in the night usually - about thirty caravans or more.
They stay for about a fortnight. Early days a couple of artic loads of three piece suites arrive from Italy. They are well wrapped in polythene & left outside. As the time ticks away they obviously go out flogging them and the new stuff is replaced by auld tat from the homes with the new replacements. When they finally upsticks and go the useless upholstery is of course left behind for the council to clean up. It's a strange sight to behold.

Percy, see the original post above by Saveman- he requested info of travellers in the North of Scotland/Caithness. Could you please enlighten us to what it's got to do with travellers in the Manchester area dumping three piece suites.

TBH
26-Sep-08, 19:35
Percy, see the original post above by Saveman- he requested info of travellers in the North of Scotland/Caithness. Could you please enlighten us to what it's got to do with travellers in the Manchester area dumping three piece suites.MAybe they travelled to Manchester, dumped the suites then headed back to Caithness.

blowfish
26-Sep-08, 19:35
Percy, see the original post above by Saveman- he requested info of travellers in the North of Scotland/Caithness. Could you please enlighten us to what it's got to do with travellers in the Manchester area dumping three piece suites.


Apparently the sofas came from a house in Murchie

Melancholy Man
26-Sep-08, 19:49
Aye, Angela. Although is Morningside not to do with the side of the big house the main door was on?


And Melancholy man, ur a little too smart for ur own good. look at me i use big words la de da!!

Better remain silent and be thought a fool, and all that.


Whilst I agree with most of what you say here.....er....I don't think we've quite got to the stage where we will be murdering thousands of gyspies....Better remain silent and not be thought a creep who thinks the best Gypsies can hope for is not being killed.

joxville
26-Sep-08, 19:58
And Melancholy man, ur a little too smart for ur own good. look at me i use big words la de da!!


Why blame Melancholy Man for your lack of intellect? If I don't know the meaning of a word then I use a dictionary to find out it's meaning-I suggest you do likewise instead of taking the proverbial!

Here's a couple of online dictionaries you could try using:

http://www.freedictionary.org/ http://www.dictionary.co.uk/

Melancholy Man
26-Sep-08, 20:34
Well said, Joxie. Fancy a date?

TBH
26-Sep-08, 20:35
How dare Melancholy Man come onto this forum with his big words and fancy ideas? Anyone looking at this would think it was a relatively free country.
I reckon we should at the very least, hang him by the ankles from a lampost until his brain implodes or failing that, we could burn him.

DeHaviLand
26-Sep-08, 20:37
How dare Melancholy Man come onto this forum with his big words and fancy ideas? Anyone looking at this would think it was a relatively free country.
I reckon we should at the very least, hang him by the ankles from a lampost until his brain implodes or failing that, we could burn him.

I could go along with a burning, dont see why the lamp post should have to suffer him for any length of time.;)

joxville
26-Sep-08, 20:37
Well said, Joxie. Fancy a date?


Joxie! A bit over-familiar there MM [lol]

Sorry to let you down but I only date the female of the species. Thanks for asking anyway.

golach
26-Sep-08, 20:41
How dare Melancholy Man come onto this forum with his big words and fancy ideas? Anyone looking at this would think it was a relatively free country.
I reckon we should at the very least, hang him by the ankles from a lampost until his brain implodes or failing that, we could burn him.
Naw TBH, a better punishment was meted out in the 1600's at the Nor Loch now Princes Street Gardens in Auld Reekie, take them down to the Loch tie their thumbs an beeg toes together and throw them in, if they floated, then hing them up and burn them.
As we have no Nor Loch or anything similar these days, may I suggest the nearest Septic tank to carry out this punishment. [lol]

northener
26-Sep-08, 20:48
here is an example of cant http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9474/gypsycant.html
I had an aunt who was fluent in talking cant.

Interesting to see 'mulla'd' in there along with 'cushti'. I think there is certainly some crossover here from Gypsy Cant to Underworld Cant.

On the 'Front' at Blackpool the showmen used to refer to goods as 'ream' (good) or 'schnide' (rubbish). I'm sure they are Romany words - they used a load more - but I can't remember them!:(.

TBH
26-Sep-08, 20:49
Naw TBH, a better punishment was meted out in the 1600's at the Nor Loch now Princes Street Gardens in Auld Reekie, take them down to the Loch tie their thumbs an beeg toes together and throw them in, if they floated, then hing them up and burn them.
As we have no Nor Loch or anything similar these days, may I suggest the nearest Septic tank to carry out this punishment. [lol]Would we have to wait and see if he survived a bout of dysentry first before we get to burn him?:lol:

golach
26-Sep-08, 21:04
Would we have to wait and see if he survived a bout of dysentry first before we get to burn him?:lol:
'At would depend on your sense of smell, and the way the wind was blowing at the time [lol]

Angela
26-Sep-08, 21:06
Joxie! A bit over-familiar there MM

Sorry to let you down but I only date the female of the species. Thanks for asking anyway.


Ahhhh, Joxville! Since I read about your incredibly tidy and colour coded sock drawers, you've really been growing on me! [lol]

Please come and help me sort mine out! ;)

TBH
26-Sep-08, 21:09
'At would depend on your sense of smell, and the way the wind was blowing at the time Would it be safe to light a match?:D

Ahhhh, Joxville! Since I read about your incredibly tidy and colour coded sock drawers, you've really been growing on me!

Please come and help me sort mine out! You want Joxie fiddling with your drawers?:eek:[lol]

Angela
26-Sep-08, 21:15
You want Joxie fiddling with your drawers?

Now, now, don't get ideas TBH! :roll:

I just want someone to sort out my odd socks! [lol]

Melancholy Man
26-Sep-08, 21:15
Ah, bless, TBH, you can shoot me next to Il Duce anyday.


As we have no Nor Loch or anything similar these days, may I suggest the nearest Septic tank to carry out this punishment. [lol]

Except during the August rain.

TBH
26-Sep-08, 21:21
Ah, bless, TBH, you can shoot me next to Il Duce anyday.



Except during the August rain.Him with a broken neck, you with swollen cankles, nice.:lol:

Melancholy Man
26-Sep-08, 21:24
Him with a broken neck, you with swollen cankles, nice.:lol:

And someone pinning down my skirt to preserve my dignity.

TBH
26-Sep-08, 21:27
And someone pinning down my skirt to preserve my dignity.
I'm sure if you ask nicely, Joxie would keep his hand on your ha'ppeny.:lol:

northener
26-Sep-08, 21:53
[quote=Melancholy Man;437779]Ah, bless, TBH, you can shoot me next to Il Duce anyday.
quote]

Did you ever hear Alexi Sayle doing George Formby's 'Tribute to Mussolini"?

(Altogether.....)

"Ah'm swinging from a lampost at the corner of our street....."

Melancholy Man
26-Sep-08, 22:32
Not as good as the "Hitler: 1944/5 Farewell Tour" I once saw, complete with cities and the dates they were captured by the Allies.

TBH
27-Sep-08, 01:16
Time magazine's 'man of the year, 1938', isn't dead, he is in a retirement home in Florida.

joxville
27-Sep-08, 09:55
Time magazine's 'man of the year, 1938', isn't dead, he is in a retirement home in Florida.

Are you sure about that? Considering he was born in 1889, if still alive he would be 119 yrs old.

riggerboy
27-Sep-08, 10:37
Are you sure about that? Considering he was born in 1889, if still alive he would be 119 yrs old.

he will live for ever, as heaven doesnt want him and hells to scared he will take over

Tighsonas4
27-Sep-08, 10:46
another thread that has wandered completely from the original topic tony

hotrod4
27-Sep-08, 10:56
Apparently the sofas came from a house in Murchie

Thats a bit sad slagging off a perfectly good street! ;) Theres good and bad in EVERY street

hotrod4
27-Sep-08, 11:03
We used to get "Irish" gypsies who would arrive and stay near the North baths and would go door to door asking if they could Tarmac your drive,if you said no they would give you "evils" and threaten you with a curse!. They always seemed to prefer "tranny" vans and have at least 2 staffies on a bit of string! Not stereotypical as I seen them with my own eyes :)

silverfox57
27-Sep-08, 11:20
there is still travelers every year in wick,about 15 white vans with trailers,and caravans,big family's lots of dogs, stay or try to kept out of veiw,at wick airport stay a few weeks, disappear,then back again,think they are the tar your drive people.but must say when the leave there is no rubbish left,

Sapphire2803
27-Sep-08, 11:32
You'll get good and bad with the Irish travellers, same as every community. I think half the battle is that most of the 'better sorts' (not all) have 'settled', that's the word they use. They're now living in houses and carrying on day to day the same as the rest of us. Yes there are some who will move in, terrorise the neighbourhood and then move out leaving mayhem. The thing is that you'll get the same family doing a tour every year and going back to the same places, so if you get a bad lot in, you'll likely get them back most years.

In Ireland they have partly dealt with this by setting up sites for them, usually outside town. They set aside an area of land, put in hard standings for the vans and waste disposal, septic tanks etc. It stops them wanting to set up on the nearest piece of grass and acknowledges their lifestyle. Everyone's happy... well most of the time anyway.

Tighsonas4
27-Sep-08, 12:44
Loving this thread but I must go and prepare for going away on holiday. I'm going traipsing all over the place and will need to pack a few things!
I will probably pop back for a wee whiley tonight though....;)
does that make one of the travelliing people then [lol] lol tony

TBH
27-Sep-08, 13:14
Are you sure about that? Considering he was born in 1889, if still alive he would be 119 yrs old.He was cloned, then adopted out by Gregory Peck.

Torvaig
27-Sep-08, 14:10
does that make one of the travelliing people then [lol] lol tony

Unfortuately not, Tony; my dog became ill and I couldn't risk putting him to the kennels. He recovered quite quickly the little sod but the kennels are all booked out now. Never mind, it means I can blether a wee whiley longer on here!:lol:

Kenneth
27-Sep-08, 14:10
Better remain silent and be thought a fool, and all that.

ooh ooh I can use sayings! Please Joxie come to my house - sorry, mon maison (for you see I can parle francais!!) where we can pull out my sayings book, and read it together!

But allow me first of all to pull my pipe out of my fine tweed jacket! Oh how rude of me, I did not offer you a pipe! Pipe, anyone? No, just moi? Ah well now, where is this book, beside the brandy cabinet, opposite the pipes cabinet? It cannot possibly be in my brogues cabinet, for I only place my finest of brogues in there!

Perhaps it can be found atop my fine marble mantlepiece, recovered from a dig site in Greece! Oh how I love a roaring fire, 'pon which to cast a warming glow over my parlour in the evening, when I am surrounded by my many volumes of Satre, Tennyson and also my Roald Dahl.

Ah no! It is underneath my latest edition of The Economist! Ah, the book of sayings: I open this hallowed tome, to discover the most important saying of them all:

No-one likes a smart alec!

Better remain silent and not be thought a creep who thinks the best Gypsies can hope for is not being killed

Perhaps I was a bit vague when I said that we aren't at the stage of performing genocide... Im saying we in Britain, as a nation, aren't that fond of Gypsies. Personally they've never bothered me, probably because I've never really come across that many...but the media do tend to cast them in a not-so-favourable light, often because they are associated with immigration! And if you like your Daily Mail (yuck yuck spew) then you will know that that is a BAD thing.

And you should also remember that this was a NAZI Germany, that wiped out those many hundreds of thousands of Gypsies. Britain is a completely different society from that in Hitler's Germany.

So , speaking to Haweswater, whilst the media aggravates the view that Gypsies aren't a favourable addition to Britain and its culture, we are not, going to be committing mass genocide! We are reminded time and time again, to remember the Holocaust, remember it so it does not happen again - yet 60 years later, has genocide stopped? Try saying that to a skull lying somewhere in Cambodia, to a child in Sudan, to a Kurd, to a Serb. We remember the Holocaust, so that the Jewish peoples can tell the world "This must not happen again to us, and it will not happen again", which is true - but for other races throughout the world, it doesnt really mean anything.

northener
27-Sep-08, 14:18
Better remain silent and be thought a fool, and all that.

ooh ooh I can use sayings! Please Joxie come to my house - sorry, mon maison (for you see I can parle francais!!) where we can pull out my sayings book, and read it together!

But allow me first of all to pull my pipe out of my fine tweed jacket! Oh how rude of me, I did not offer you a pipe! Pipe, anyone? No, just moi? Ah well now, where is this book, beside the brandy cabinet, opposite the pipes cabinet? It cannot possibly be in my brogues cabinet, for I only place my finest of brogues in there!

Perhaps it can be found atop my fine marble mantlepiece, recovered from a dig site in Greece! Oh how I love a roaring fire, 'pon which to cast a warming glow over my parlour in the evening, when I am surrounded by my many volumes of Satre, Tennyson and also my Roald Dahl.

Ah no! It is underneath my latest edition of The Economist! Ah, the book of sayings: I open this hallowed tome, to discover the most important saying of them all:.................

....................Er.....hello, old chap.

Would you mind telling me who you are and what you're doing in my den, drinking my brandy and colouring in my favourite books?

Kenneth
27-Sep-08, 14:25
Why, good afternoon, Old Chestnut! It appears that my chaffeur Johnson has taken me to the wrong house! Don't worry about him, I'll have him shot immediately!

I feel sorry for the poor chap who wanted to find stuff out about Gypsies from the North.....he must be thinking "Oh god what have I created!!" lol

Melancholy Man
27-Sep-08, 17:25
Chez moi would be better.


We are reminded time and time again, to remember the Holocaust, remember it so it does not happen again - yet 60 years later, has genocide stopped? Try saying that to a skull lying somewhere in Cambodia, to a child in Sudan, to a Kurd, to a Serb. We remember the Holocaust, so that the Jewish peoples can tell the world "This must not happen again to us, and it will not happen again", which is true - but for other races throughout the world, it doesnt really mean anything.What? I mean, seriously, what? (When was the Serb genocide, by the way?)


And you should also remember that this was a NAZI Germany, that wiped out those many hundreds of thousands of Gypsies.

Like Jews, most Gypsies didn't live in Germany. Although the non-Jewish and non-Gypsy inhabitants undeniably did suffer greatly, the rounding-up of these groups required some degree of assistance.


Britain is a completely different society from that in Hitler's Germany.It was not suggested we were on the verge of mass-killing. What was was that it is possible to persecuted a group without killing members.

The Porajmos was cited in response to Percy's stated wish that all Travellers and Gypsies depart this country. Although most are of centuries-long established here, there will be a fair few genuine Roma who have arrived in the recent years. From Eastern Europe, where they are *still* the victims of violent racism. It was also discussed that current Travellers are not over-represented in crime stats.

Kenneth
27-Sep-08, 18:38
Chez moi would be better.

What? I mean, seriously, what? (When was the Serb genocide, by the way?)



Like Jews, most Gypsies didn't live in Germany. Although the non-Jewish and non-Gypsy inhabitants undeniably did suffer greatly, the rounding-up of these groups required some degree of assistance.

It was not suggested we were on the verge of mass-killing. What was was that it is possible to persecuted a group without killing members.

The Porajmos was cited in response to Percy's stated wish that all Travellers and Gypsies depart this country. Although most are of centuries-long established here, there will be a fair few genuine Roma who have arrived in the recent years. From Eastern Europe, where they are *still* the victims of violent racism. It was also discussed that current Travellers are not over-represented in crime stats.


groan.... this argument is fairly dragging along!

Just saying that we are constantly reminded, time and time again, not to forget the Holocaust, because it will happen again if we do. And well, it seems to happen quite a lot around the world despite remembering the Holocaust! We are reminded by Jews because they do not want it to happen to them again (obviously), and it should never happen to them again. It doesnt seem to apply anywhere else, it doesnt apply to Gypsies, it doesnt apply to anyone else. Im referring to Haweswater saying we should bear in mind that thousands of Gyspies were killed during the Holocaust:

It is often worth remembering that over half a million Roma and Sinti men, women and children were murdered in Nazi death camps throughout Europe during the late 1930's and during World War II - simply for being 'social outcasts'.

He seemed to imply that we were a few steps from genocide! But do we REALLY need to bear that in mind in modern day Britain?

Apologies about the Serb! I was talking about the Bosnian war, in the early 1990s. I don't know terriblly much about it, other than ethnic cleansing was carried out by Serbian forces.

But yes you are correct, it wasnt Nazi Germany, more the nations that were annexed or over taken by the Third Reich.

But tell you what, I think this has fairly branched out from the original subject!!!!! Non? Je suis parle francais aussi!

Kenneth
27-Sep-08, 18:45
Which is a bit of a shame considering, in my opinion, its a very interesting subject! Hence all the arguing haha

Melancholy Man
27-Sep-08, 19:32
Which is a bit of a shame considering, in my opinion, its a very interesting subject! Hence all the arguing hahYou're a troll, Kenneth. This is an admission that you're simply hijacking the thread with irrelevant nonsense (I don't think by "arguing" you meant exchanging ideas and coming to a considered conclusion). Add to that your seizing on non-points and holding them up as all-important, a pondering of your belly-button fluff and passing it off as profound cogitations:


He seemed to imply that we were a few steps from genocide!I can't speak for him, but I don't think that for a second. The main thrust of his argument was that the assertion that Travellers were over-represented in petty crime was spurious. As an *aside* he referred to the Porajmos which, for Gypsies in this country (either established or recent arrivals) will, like the Shoah for the Jews or the Overwhelming for the Rwandans, be the single-most traumatic event any ethnic group can experience. Of course it is worth remembering, for the victims and their posterity as well as for everyone else. Anyone who disagrees can die roaring.

Furthermore, some recent arrivals from Eastern and Central Europe are importing racist attitudes (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/sep/11/croatiafootballteam.englandfootballteam?gusrc=rss&feed=football) which we left behind decades ago. Specifically, the full-frontal anti-Gypsy racism which still exists is stomach turning (http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11579339). It's not passing jokes, it often turns to murderous hatred (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/feb/03/kateconnolly).

It is no great leap of the imagination that this could add to the toxic brew already here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3683483.stm), or smart non-racist Western Europe (http://www.unesco.org/courier/2000_06/uk/ethique.htm).

Haweswater
27-Sep-08, 21:37
You're a troll, Kenneth. This is an admission that you're simply hijacking the thread with irrelevant nonsense (I don't think by "arguing" you meant exchanging ideas and coming to a considered conclusion). Add to that your seizing on non-points and holding them up as all-important, a pondering of your belly-button fluff and passing it off as profound cogitations:

I can't speak for him, but I don't think that for a second. The main thrust of his argument was that the assertion that Travellers were over-represented in petty crime was spurious. As an *aside* he referred to the Porajmos which, for Gypsies in this country (either established or recent arrivals) will, like the Shoah for the Jews or the Overwhelming for the Rwandans, be the single-most traumatic event any ethnic group can experience. Of course it is worth remembering, for the victims and their posterity as well as for everyone else. Anyone who disagrees can die roaring.

Furthermore, some recent arrivals from Eastern and Central Europe are importing racist attitudes (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/sep/11/croatiafootballteam.englandfootballteam?gusrc=rss&feed=football) which we left behind decades ago. Specifically, the full-frontal anti-Gypsy racism which still exists is stomach turning (http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11579339). It's not passing jokes, it often turns to murderous hatred (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/feb/03/kateconnolly).

It is no great leap of the imagination that this could add to the toxic brew already here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3683483.stm), or smart non-racist Western Europe (http://www.unesco.org/courier/2000_06/uk/ethique.htm).
No - I'm not suggesting that we are a few steps away from genocide, but my original observation merely sought to point out that a society that displays intolerance towards those it may regard as outcasts is not as socially healthy as it perhaps should be. Let no one be mistaken into believing that what took place in Nazi Germany and the nations it occupied cannot ever happen again - and, more importantly, that simply because we live in a 'democracy' it can never happen. Hitler and his party were democratically elected to power. Although we live in a somewhat more socially inclusive society in Britain today, it was only as recently as the 1970's when a county councillor in East Anglia angrily denounced Gyspy Travellers, adding that 'they should be rounded up and put behind barbed wire'.
I have personally met a family of Travellers whose infant son became ill whilst the family were 'on the road'. Taking the child to a local hospital they were treated in a manner that can only evidence the continuing hostility towards Travellers, the casualty doctor (a female) advising them to 'pack up and go' as 'we don't want your kind around here'. Not Germany in 1935 but Scotland in 2005.
Need I say more??

Melancholy Man
27-Sep-08, 22:15
As long ago (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3222321.stm) as the 1970s, Haweswater? Do you have a source for the A&E incident? Not doubting you, like.

I forget which town, but somewhere in the West Country (of England), the local council controlled by a certain party was within the past decade or so was being quite repulsively anti-Traveller whilst it's other members in minorities the cities were touting their anti-racist credentials.

The Lib Dems, of course. Bunch of chancers who sell their own grandmothers to the Gyp... whoops...

Kenneth
28-Sep-08, 15:50
You're a troll, Kenneth.

What! Hahaha well never been called that but its an interesting insult.

This is an admission that you're simply hijacking the thread with irrelevant nonsense (I don't think by "arguing" you meant exchanging ideas and coming to a considered conclusion). Add to that your seizing on non-points and holding them up as all-important, a pondering of your belly-button fluff and passing it off as profound cogitations:

And well im entitled to my own opinions, even if I dont use big fancy words!

I can't speak for him, but I don't think that for a second. The main thrust of his argument was that the assertion that Travellers were over-represented in petty crime was spurious. As an *aside* he referred to the Porajmos which, for Gypsies in this country (either established or recent arrivals) will, like the Shoah for the Jews or the Overwhelming for the Rwandans, be the single-most traumatic event any ethnic group can experience. Of course it is worth remembering, for the victims and their posterity as well as for everyone else. Anyone who disagrees can die roaring.

I dont disagree that they arent worth remembering, of course it is, it was an atrocity. But its not relevant to Britain's attitude towards Gyspies today. It seemed to me that he was implying that we remember what happened 60 years ago, because it all started with Gypsies being seen as 'Social Outcasts'....if you read Haweswater's response does this not seem to be what he is saying?

Discrimination against Travellers, be they Roma, Scottish or Irish, is morally and legally unacceptable, yet despite that, they continue to be marginalised simply on grounds of their unique heritage. It is often worth remembering that over half a million Roma and Sinti men, women and children were murdered in Nazi death camps throughout Europe during the late 1930's and during World War II - simply for being 'social outcasts'

But perhaps he did not mean it to be read in that way? Now perhaps he didnt imply that we were a 'few steps' from genocide, but rather, the murder of the Roma and Sinti peoples started with the attitude that some in Britain have. What im arguing is that its a completely different ruling party and society that performed the genocide, so I don't think remembering the thousands of people killed applies to Britain in 2008.


Furthermore, some recent arrivals from Eastern and Central Europe are importing racist attitudes (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/sep/11/croatiafootballteam.englandfootballteam?gusrc=rss&feed=football) which we left behind decades ago. Specifically, the full-frontal anti-Gypsy racism which still exists is stomach turning (http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11579339). It's not passing jokes, it often turns to murderous hatred (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/feb/03/kateconnolly).

I love how when I engaged "Sarcasm Mode" in the other thread, you found your book of sayings underneath the latest edition under the economist. The link to stomach churning....I can read you like a book MM!!! haha

It is no great leap of the imagination that this could add to the toxic brew already here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3683483.stm), or smart non-racist Western Europe (http://www.unesco.org/courier/2000_06/uk/ethique.htm).

I really cant see that happening here, yes, like I said, the media does often portray the Gypsies in a not terribly good way, but I think there are plenty of people out there that would sympathise with them, and are completely unaffected by their presence. In Italy, however, I fear they are a on very dangerous route of hate...I beleive that 2 Gyspies were left dead on a beach for hours, as people passed by, without the police being notified. Also, gypsy camps are being burned down...something I really cant see happening here...yet.

Melancholy Man
28-Sep-08, 15:54
Kenneth, in a thread about Stephen Lawrence's murder, would you quip that, because there's no chance of a return to slavery, we should not be concerned?

Kenneth
29-Sep-08, 11:02
Kenneth, in a thread about Stephen Lawrence's murder, would you quip that, because there's no chance of a return to slavery, we should not be concerned?

Im sure you could argue better than that MM, I quite enjoy reading your responses, however this is completely out of cotext about what I was saying.

JAWS
29-Sep-08, 19:22
How on earth did Stephen Lawrence manage to get into this thread and what connection did he have with slavery for heavens sake?

With regards to the story about the two children in beach in Italy, it was, to some extent, nothing more than mischief making. Attempts had been made to save the children from drowning and had resulted with them being removed from the sea and their bodies placed on the beach. The authorities, it appeared, had already attended when the photographs were taken and the bodies were there awaiting removal.

The fact that they were of gypsy origin was somewhat irrelevant. That had nothing to do with the fact that the bodies were there or the reaction of other people on the beach. At least the people who passed by had more respect than to treat the whole matter as some kind of peep-show provided for their entertainment as so often is the more morbid attitude often exercised elsewhere.

Melancholy Man
29-Sep-08, 21:29
Jaws, Kenneth is insisting that because Britain in the 21st Century, where A&E doctors refuse to treat Traveller children and individuals at local fêtes actually think they'd get away with burning effigies of Travellers, is not Germany in the 1930s, we should be less concerned.

Thus, mentioning a racist killing, and what was to the victims ethnic group as the Porajmos was to Gypsies, is not that great a leap of the imagination.

Kenneth
30-Sep-08, 15:59
Jaws, Kenneth is insisting that because Britain in the 21st Century, where A&E doctors refuse to treat Traveller children and individuals at local fêtes actually think they'd get away with burning effigies of Travellers, is not Germany in the 1930s, we should be less concerned.

Thus, mentioning a racist killing, and what was to the victims ethnic group as the Porajmos was to Gypsies, is not that great a leap of the imagination.

Nope. haha.

An extrordinary comparison mm, about stephen lawrence/racsim and gypsies' discrimination....but I can't agree with you. I dont think its going to get worse for Gypsies in Britain, and not to the degree of what happened to those living uder Nazi Rule. I think the media stories have blown the case out of proportion.

percy toboggan
30-Sep-08, 19:32
Porajmos?
I keep thinking of breakfast in bed somehow whenever I read this word.

Er...incidentally, slavery is alive and well...and living in the south-east of England.

joxville
30-Sep-08, 21:22
Er...incidentally, slavery is alive and well...and living in the south-east of England.

I live in the S.E. of England and haven't seen any evidence of it. Or are you being facetious?

Haweswater
30-Sep-08, 23:15
Thanks for reminding me. I had forgotten about the Sussex 'burning'. As regards the incident with the casualty doctor, there are reasons why I'd rather not identify the town although I can state that it was a hospital in one of our three island local authority areas.
As to Kenneth's point regarding my 'Holocaust' observations, he is right in suggesting that what I had been conveying are the dangerously close links between what would seem almost casual (some might say 'harmless') discrimination towards Travellers and any other racial or minority groups and 'final solutions'. All such acts of evil have a starting point. Live and let live...

JAWS
01-Oct-08, 05:48
Furthermore, some recent arrivals from Eastern and Central Europe are importing racist attitudes which we left behind decades ago.

Kenneth, that would seem to be an awfully racist comment by tarring all Eastern Europeans with the same brush and quite as bad as anybody tarring all Romas, Gypsies etc. in a similar manner.

As a matter of interest, does anybody know what the nationality of the Doctor who turned they Gypsy child away from hospital was?
Was the child entitled to free treatment under the NHS because there are many people who in Britain who are not entitled to such treatment.
It would certainly be interesting to have the full details of the incident because it is quite normal for such stories to end up being misrepresented to the media for ulterior motives in support of a particular viewpoint.

Joxville, not having seen something is no guarantee that it doesn’t exist.

“Young women tricked into coming to England, often by boyfriends, are being sold off in auctions at airport coffee shops as soon as they arrive.
They are among the thousands of women brought into the UK to be sex slaves, usually with no idea of their fate.
The Home Office estimated in 2003 that 4,000 women were trafficked into the UK for sexual exploitation. It is thought the figure may have grown since.” BBC 19 March 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6459369.stm

Kenneth
01-Oct-08, 11:18
Originally Posted by Kenneth http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=439763#post439763)
Furthermore, some recent arrivals from Eastern and Central Europe are importing racist attitudes which we left behind decades ago.


Not sure I said that lol :confused

dandod
01-Oct-08, 18:35
the pic from the start of this thread is called cave dwellers

percy toboggan
01-Oct-08, 20:42
I live in the S.E. of England and haven't seen any evidence of it. Or are you being facetious?

No, I'm speaking of trafficked young women working as prostitutes, and the countless African immigrants who are used as domestic slaves by those who exploit them....wealthy fellow Africans.

It's not just the south east of course but this is where it predominates.

Melancholy Man
02-Oct-08, 12:00
Kenneth, that would seem to be an awfully racist comment {...}

In fact, I said that. Kenneth is still sipping the prat-juice.


{...}by tarring all Eastern Europeans with the same brush and quite as bad as anybody tarring all Romas, Gypsies etc. in a similar manner. *Some* Eastern Europeans are. We should now be sensitive to the feelings of the racist community? Here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/england/2975312/Fifa-to-investigate-racist-chants-aimed-at-Englands-Emile-Heskey-by-Croatia-fans---Football.html) is happens on the home turf. Of course, it may just be a personal dislike of Emile Heskey (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/2326757.stm).

I've already linked to articles on antiziganism (apparently the accurate term) in Eastern and Central Europe. There is also the Self-Defence Party (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4754079.stm) in Poland - although their influence has been weaken with the removal of one of the Ducky Boys as Prime Minister, and installation of a Polish man called Donald - and Radio Maryja (http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,413976,00.html), only a few steps down in odium from Radio Milles Collines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_Libre_des_Mille_Colline s).

I've heard anecdotal tales from black and Asian British about "creepy looks" from Polish and Lithuanians, and was told myself by one that there were too many "brown people" in Edinburgh. And where are you from, mate?

And all of this just pales into insignificance against what goes on in Russia.


As a matter of interest, does anybody know what the nationality of the Doctor who turned they Gypsy child away from hospital was?To tell the truth, I did wonder if it were a Polish doctor!


Was the child entitled to free treatment under the NHS because there are many people who in Britain who are not entitled to such treatment.Haweswater and I have pointed to ample instances of British citizens being discriminated against. Even if the child were a Romanian or Bulgarian Gypsy (who were effectively slaves in law until the 1860s) or Kosovar, so what? This was primary health care, which doctors are most certainly not permitted to with-hold from determined groups.


No, I'm speaking of trafficked young women working as prostitutes, and the countless African immigrants who are used as domestic slaves by those who exploit them....wealthy fellow Africans.

Fiddlesticks. Percy and I agree on something else. Furthermore, Polish or Albanian gangmasters are moving into the market, as several recent raids in Edinburgh have demonstrated.

Kenneth
02-Oct-08, 13:08
Blah blah blah

All points here very good. By everyone. Especially me.

Can someone please put something about the history or culture of Northern gypsies rather than Emile Heskey!?

Melancholy Man
02-Oct-08, 13:16
Can people please desist discussing racial prejudices towards one ethnic group in order to suggest prejudices towards others are, thus, more likely?

Kenneth
02-Oct-08, 13:57
Can people get a grip please! Thus ergo!

Tighsonas4
02-Oct-08, 17:13
Unfortuately not, Tony; my dog became ill and I couldn't risk putting him to the kennels. He recovered quite quickly the little sod but the kennels are all booked out now. Never mind, it means I can blether a wee whiley longer on here!:lol:
sorry about your holiday torvaig a roamaround can be quite refreshing
maybe by the weather your better where you are tony

Melancholy Man
02-Oct-08, 19:47
Kenneth, what do you have to say about this week's Austrian elections? It's 2008, not 1938, what's to worry?