View Full Version : Crash helmets ?
Whoever the woman was that went past me today riding your cruiser / harley type bike with out your lid on, can I ask why you felt the need to not only ride with out a lid, but have it hanging over your sissy bar ? :confused
Tshirt , jeans and shades may make you think you are " living the dream" and I am all for your rights, but I pity whoever it is that has to pick up the bits if you have a off. No matter how good you think you are there is always that chance, that bit of diesel, that driver that never saw you.
We saw her too Solus on the way to Keiss this afternoon. Some people have no common sense at all. Wear the lid,it`s there to save your life!
percy toboggan
21-Sep-08, 18:16
Have you never done anything a little retro?
A little non-conformist just for a mile or two?
Long live the odd non-conformist.
Tighsonas4
21-Sep-08, 18:46
i thought it was a legal requirment to wear it or you could be nicked
but maybe not tony
Percy, I can honestly say never, other than maybe to take the bike round the side of the house about 50 yards. There is a difference to a mile or two somewhere quiet, but busy route with lots of traffic, junctions and farm traffic buzzing about at the mo is in my mind silly. Non conforming maybe fun, risking a serious head injury is not.
Miknhev, I met her a mile or so outside Wick.
Have you never done anything a little retro?
A little non-conformist just for a mile or two?
Long live the odd non-conformist.
The reason it's a little retro is probably because of the amount of people who ended up eating their dinner through their arm.
Aah the wind blowing through your hair, the tarmac wafting between your ears. Great lesson for the kids.........
percy toboggan
24-Sep-08, 19:58
I was riding moyorbikes before a helmet became a legal requirement do maybe I'm coming at tis from a different persepective.
Of course they are a good idea , so is kicking back against the system once in a while just for the hell of it. I'd have thoyght that was the standard mindset of a motor-cyclist of ten or twenty years ago...obviously things have changed.
What have kids got to do with it? They've already been led down the path of wearing a helmet on a push bike, soon it might be compulsory too - barmy...wrap 'em up in cotton wool next.
percy toboggan
24-Sep-08, 20:20
Anyway, do the Motorcycle ACtion Group no longer have their annual 'Fred Hill' runs. To commemorate the death, in Pentonville Prison of the old campaigner who took great exception to Sikhs being given dispensation from wearing helmets. He was imprisoned umpteen times following his belief that he shouldn't be forced to wear a helmet either.
I've taken part in these runs myself once or twice. Three to four hundred riders...many lidless...with Police outriders acting as escorts and turning a blind eye to the legalities.
A good buzz and a necessary outlet for genuine protest. The issue is not as hot as it once was, and most see the sense in helmets, especially for the more modern type of sports and race replica bikes (the pits, in my opinion). Cruisng through the countryside on an old AJS or Enfield Bullet I'd be tempted to go for the flying helmet and goggles route myself...I must dig 'em out of the garage some time.
Anyway, do the Motorcycle ACtion Group no longer have their annual 'Fred Hill' runs. To commemorate the death, in Pentonville Prison of the old campaigner who took great exception to Sikhs being given dispensation from wearing helmets. He was imprisoned umpteen times following his belief that he shouldn't be forced to wear a helmet either.
Just a matter of time until some working group accuses the medical system of being racist as more Sikhs are killed in motorbike crashes.
Maybe she was a sikh.
Looked pretty healthy
northener
24-Sep-08, 21:33
Anyway, do the Motorcycle ACtion Group no longer have their annual 'Fred Hill' runs. To commemorate the death, in Pentonville Prison of the old campaigner who took great exception to Sikhs being given dispensation from wearing helmets. He was imprisoned umpteen times following his belief that he shouldn't be forced to wear a helmet either.
I've taken part in these runs myself once or twice. Three to four hundred riders...many lidless...with Police outriders acting as escorts and turning a blind eye to the legalities.
A good buzz and a necessary outlet for genuine protest. The issue is not as hot as it once was, and most see the sense in helmets, especially for the more modern type of sports and race replica bikes (the pits, in my opinion). Cruisng through the countryside on an old AJS or Enfield Bullet I'd be tempted to go for the flying helmet and goggles route myself...I must dig 'em out of the garage some time.
I think MAG still do this run, though I believe the number of people not wearing helmets on it are dwindling.
The mainstream biker community aren't as 'revolutionary' ( for want of a better word) as they were 30 years ago.
There's been a glut of 'lifestyle' aspirants on the scene recently...mainly middle aged, looking to regain their youth or simply being affluent enough to buy the toys they could only dream about in their teens and twenties. Nothing wrong with that, mind you.
But in the main, they are 'respectable' members of the community who would run a mile from anything that smacked of protest.
MAG don't seem to have the drive they once had. the following gives an example of how toothless they really are now:
The shooting of Hells Angel Gerry Tobin - who was on his way home from the Hells Angels Bulldog Bash at Stratford last year - prompted a huge and unwarranted bout of anti-motorcyclist hysteria from the police. They used this shooting to apply huge amounts of pressure onto councils and landowners to try and block any moves to hold previously well established (and peaceful) bike rallies in North Wales and England.
Thankfully, the council in Stratford told the local plod to go and get stuffed and granted the Bulldog Bash a ten-year licence to continue this hugely popular and peaceful event. Unfortunately, other rallies were snuffed out by the police's ugly, bullying tactics.
There was, understandably, a large amount of anger aimed at the Chief Constables' responsible for this, especially seeing as they were trying to shut down the shows on the back of Gerry's murder.
Citing 'sources' that said that 'violence' was going to take place....all this from Policemen who are happy to let thousands of violent thugs onto the street every Saturday afternoon to attend and take part in organised violence at football matches........[lol]
MAG's response? vitually nothing. They had a low-intensity 'meet' where they were assured by the very people who were closing down the rallies that bikers 'had nothing to fear'. MAG duly trotted of to spread the Gospel whilst the police continued to try and shut down some of the major events of the year.
Not that long ago, MAG would have been amongst the first to man the barricades. Now it seems that the Hells Angels (allegedly the baddies) have a more motivated legal and lobbying team than MAG.....
Looked pretty healthy
If I missed out the A, you could be right.;)
I think MAG still do this run, though I believe the number of people not wearing helmets on it are dwindling.
The mainstream biker community aren't as 'revolutionary' ( for want of a better word) as they were 30 years ago.
There's been a glut of 'lifestyle' aspirants on the scene recently...mainly middle aged, looking to regain their youth or simply being affluent enough to buy the toys they could only dream about in their teens and twenties. Nothing wrong with that, mind you.
But in the main, they are 'respectable' members of the community who would run a mile from anything that smacked of protest.
MAG don't seem to have the drive they once had. the following gives an example of how toothless they really are now:
The shooting of Hells Angel Gerry Tobin - who was on his way home from the Hells Angels Bulldog Bash at Stratford last year - prompted a huge and unwarranted bout of anti-motorcyclist hysteria from the police. They used this shooting to apply huge amounts of pressure onto councils and landowners to try and block any moves to hold previously well established (and peaceful) bike rallies in North Wales and England.
Thankfully, the council in Stratford told the local plod to go and get stuffed and granted the Bulldog Bash a ten-year licence to continue this hugely popular and peaceful event. Unfortunately, other rallies were snuffed out by the police's ugly, bullying tactics.
There was, understandably, a large amount of anger aimed at the Chief Constables' responsible for this, especially seeing as they were trying to shut down the shows on the back of Gerry's murder.
Citing 'sources' that said that 'violence' was going to take place....all this from Policemen who are happy to let thousands of violent thugs onto the street every Saturday afternoon to attend and take part in organised violence at football matches........[lol]
MAG's response? vitually nothing. They had a low-intensity 'meet' where they were assured by the very people who were closing down the rallies that bikers 'had nothing to fear'. MAG duly trotted of to spread the Gospel whilst the police continued to try and shut down some of the major events of the year.
Not that long ago, MAG would have been amongst the first to man the barricades. Now it seems that the Hells Angels (allegedly the baddies) have a more motivated legal and lobbying team than MAG.....If the participants wear helmets, what is the point of a rally to commemorate a man that recognised the inequality of allowing Sikhs to go without protective headgear?
northener
24-Sep-08, 21:59
Good point, TBH.
But I think it is more of a commemorative run now, as opposed to a anti-helmet run. Having said that, I aint ever been on it. So Percy's better placed than I am to comment on that.
Good point, TBH.
But I think it is more of a commemorative run now, as opposed to a anti-helmet run. Having said that, I aint ever been on it. So Percy's better placed than I am to comment on that.Fred will be turning in his grave.
I was riding moyorbikes before a helmet became a legal requirement do maybe I'm coming at tis from a different persepective.
Of course they are a good idea , so is kicking back against the system once in a while just for the hell of it. I'd have thoyght that was the standard mindset of a motor-cyclist of ten or twenty years ago...obviously things have changed.
What have kids got to do with it? They've already been led down the path of wearing a helmet on a push bike, soon it might be compulsory too - barmy...wrap 'em up in cotton wool next.
Percy I cannot believe you are saying these things - dinna fancy scapin anyone's brains off the road! Children need to wear helmets on their bikes - they save lives - have you seen some motorists these days speedin thru towns and villages?
Good point, TBH.
But I think it is more of a commemorative run now, as opposed to a anti-helmet run. Having said that, I aint ever been on it. So Percy's better placed than I am to comment on that.
Percy's better placed to comment on anything-and usually does! [lol]
Some people have no sense of adventure.
The adventure of getting your Brains splattered across a road?:eek:
Wonder if emergency services call these "accidents" adventures!
Wonder if emergency services call these "accidents" adventures!
It's called, 'death by misadventure'.
What is the problem with that, TBH? It is their brains, not anybody else's.
What is the problem with that, TBH? It is their brains, not anybody else's.I know Jaws, we all hate the H.S.E but think about the cost, that is the real issue for me and the H.S.E.[lol]
So the concern is not about the injury to the person riding the bike but is nothing other than financial.
If they hurt themselves it might cost money. Now that does sound more like what the concern really is in this day and age.
Well, that same argument can apply to many things so where does it stop?
Have you never done anything a little retro?
A little non-conformist just for a mile or two?
Long live the odd non-conformist.
Seems a bit unlikely that they will live long! :eek: :roll:
percy toboggan
25-Sep-08, 18:33
Blimey! I've lost count of the times I've ridden through rally sites without a helmet, or the odd mile on a quiet country lane. It's a really pleasant feeling to feel the wind in your hair on a warm day...it was much better too when I had some to speak of !
First of all I'm not suggesting we should return to non-mandatory helmets for motor-cyclists...of course they make sense...although I have a friend who would be very dead now if he'd been wearing a full-face one back in the late eighties when a Transit cut across his path...he broke his jaw...the Surgeon made the comment about the full face helmet...it might well have resulted in a badly broken neck.
We have become risk averse as a society and fear is being transmitted to our children needlesly for the most part. I'm all for protecting them of course but it's not really necessary for a kid to wear a helmet on a push bike....unless they are racing hard or doing stunts. Perhaps if they are that rarity -ie. negotitating heavy traffic whilst RIDING ON THE ROAD rather than the pavement.....If, however they are just pottering around some estate it's a clear case of overkill. How ever did we survive? I fell off me bike and broke my nose when I was nine, a year after that I was run over by a push bike a year later, and broke it again! I'd have been considered a jessy/cissy if I'd donned a silly hat. Quite right to, at the time. I'd not have been seen in one, and nor would any of my mates.
Risk compensation is another factor. Do we feel safer with a helmet on. All done up in the latest Kevlar protective body-armour bulging out in the right places (oooeer missus) Or would one take a little more care in a simple leather jacket and jeans - which was my preferred gear when I wasn't wearing the auld duster coat and unpadded leather kecks.
The 'Fred Hill' runs were a real buzz. 50% of the throng were lidless in memory of old Fred...a true British eccentric.
I went on two with Mrs.T on the pillion. We actually wore our lids on the first one (too many cops and we had illegal number plates - black and silver & I do see the sense in routine helmet wearing anyway) ..... it was quite comical when the Manchester Evening News carried coverage with a photo and it was me and my other half in helmets in the foreground under the small headline 'Bikers go Lidless in Annual Protest'
I used to be a member of the 'Motor Cycle Action Group' which was one of the most potent lobbying organisations a decade and more ago. I had the weekend of all weekends at their 21st. Birthday Bash in Helmsley c.1994...a real lush up with great craic, great bands and fantastic company around a bonfire late into the wee small hours. It sounds as though it should have died young does 'MAG'...have they really given up the Ghost?
I am NOT passionately pro helmetless riding but for goodness sake we all surely reserve the right to do our own thing just once in a while.
RULES ARE FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FOOLS AND THE GUIDANCE OF WISE MEN.
wifie: I deplore cars 'speeding' through villages but placing a kids head inside a cheapish polystyrene skull cap will do little to save them should they be unfortunate enough to collide with one. The problem is a parent might think it could serve them better than attentive instruction and advocating caution at all times.
We have become risk averse as a society and fear is being transmitted to our children needlesly for the most part. I'm all for protecting them of course but it's not really necessary for a kid to wear a helmet on a push bike....unless they are racing hard or doing stunts. Perhaps if they are that rarity -ie. negotitating heavy traffic whilst RIDING ON THE ROAD rather than the pavement...
I agree we're a risk averse society, in tandem with developing a compensation culture. Evaluating risks when it comes to ourselves is one thing though - risking our children suffering injury or death is quite another.
My three now adult children are all experienced and keen cyclists and learned to ride a bike here in the city centre, and once they were old enough, riding on the road. No way would they have been allowed out without a helmet, even though they would argue and say it wasn't 'cool' or they were only 'popping out'.
My son had one serious accident here in Edinburgh and if he'd not been wearing the hated helmet he would have suffered brain damage. An adult male friend faced months of surgery and major dental treatment after being mown down by a car -again without his helmet, his injuries would have been even more serious, if not fatal.
No doubt if my son had been more seriously injured and had been cycling without a helmet I'd have been taken to task for being an irresponsible parent -and nobody would have felt more to blame than I would.
Throughout my life I've been a questioner rather than a follower of rules, but questioning doesn't mean automatically dismissing the rules just because they're there. No way would I have allowed my kids to take pointless, foolish and and unnecessary risks with their lives.
percy toboggan
25-Sep-08, 19:42
........Throughout my life I've been a questioner rather than a follower of rules, but questioning doesn't mean automatically dismissing the rules just because they're there.........
I didn't say it did.
I just opined that to ride helmetless on rare occassions
should not be enough to attract scorn , or the ire of others.
Given that you seem to be at oods with my view on this...and so many other things.
How does one 'question' a rule ? Most of them are drawn up rather arbitrarily in wood lined halls. The rule makers often don't take kindly to being 'questioned'...so, rather than 'question' (I've found it gets one nowhere) it's best to abide by the rules most of the time, and flout the ones you disagree with on a selctive basis if the ramifications do not involve excessive financial loss. 'Flouting' should never involve endangering others.Self-preservation is sacrosanct...I do not need rule makers to protect me from myself thank you.
Question away at the rules Angela, if it stirs the 'rebel' inside you. I doubt you'll get very far...with or without a skid lid.
I didn't say it did.
I just opined that to ride helmetless on rare occassions
should not be enough to attract scorn , or the ire of others.
Given that you seem to be at oods with my view on this...and so many other things.
How does one 'question' a rule ? Most of them are drawn up rather arbitrarily in wood lined halls. The rule makers often don't take kindly to being 'questioned'...so, rather than 'question' (I've found it gets one nowhere) it's best to abide by the rules most of the time, and flout the ones you disagree with on a selctive basis if the ramifications do not involve excessive financial loss. 'Flouting' should never involve endangering others.Self-preservation is sacrosanct...I do not need rule makers to protect me from myself thank you.
Question away at the rules Angela, if it stirs the 'rebel' inside you. I doubt you'll get very far...with or without a skid lid.
I'm not a rebel, percy, I grew out of that about forty years ago! ;)
percy toboggan
25-Sep-08, 20:07
I'm not a rebel, percy, I grew out of that about forty years ago! ;)
"Just what are you rebelling AGAINST Johnnie?"
"What 'ya got?'
...now there's a role model (he joked)
I think it is cooler to have a helmet. You can customise the Helmet to suit your personality. I have a Ducati and don't go anywhere without my bright purple helmet. it gets me noticed or maybe its the bike.
I think it is cooler to have a helmet. You can customise the Helmet to suit your personality. I have a Ducati and don't go anywhere without my bright purple helmet. it gets me noticed or maybe its the bike.
Wishful thinking blowfish. You're not man enough to have a Ducati! Back to wearing tank tops and carrying man bags for you me hearty.
northener
25-Sep-08, 20:25
"Just what are you rebelling AGAINST Johnnie?"
"What 'ya got?'
...now there's a role model (he joked)
Did you know that Johnnies' father in the film was the man who gave Mr Magoo his voice?
And I always thought that Lee Marvin made a more convincing rebel.....
northener
25-Sep-08, 20:29
I think it is cooler to have a helmet. You can customise the Helmet to suit your personality. I have a Ducati and don't go anywhere without my bright purple helmet. it gets me noticed or maybe its the bike.
Purple helmets? ooo-er......
Or maybe you're a member of the infamous 'Purple Helmets' motorbike display team?
http://www.sheepskullenduroriders.com/
http://www.sheepskullenduroriders.com/USERIMAGES/a05.jpg
http://www.sheepskullenduroriders.com/USERIMAGES/a23.JPG
percy toboggan
25-Sep-08, 20:30
Did you know that Johnnies' father in the film was the man who gave Mr Magoo his voice?
And I always thought that Lee Marvin made a more convincing rebel.....
You're right about Marvin...he had the bettere bike as well.....wasn't it an 'Indian'...I loved those so much I bought a modern replica!
Ducatti?: Not a 'Monster Dark'...I think they are simply sinister looking, and all the better for it....very sexy bike.
(before anyone sez owt I'm 'sinister' in the strictest sense.)
percy toboggan
25-Sep-08, 20:31
One o'them Purple Helmets nicked my coat...and me 'elmet!
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