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View Full Version : Council tax has to be replaced by... something...



Melancholy Man
03-Sep-08, 19:47
Check out the comment (http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=5296&edition=1&ttl=20080903194127) from Rob Gardiner at 1247 hrs on 3/9.

Teehee.

EDDIE
03-Sep-08, 20:51
local income tax = poll tax just worded differently

I dont mind paying a little bit more towards taxes if the money is spent wisely but its not thats what bothers me

Melancholy Man
03-Sep-08, 21:06
Although I ain't no friend of Salmond mock Thatcherism and his rentier mates, this is somewhat different to poll-tax. He's proposing a flat-rate which would, assuming they didn't wrangle exemptions, would result in higher earners in paying more.

Still going to end in tears. Go hame an' think again, Fish-heid.

percy toboggan
03-Sep-08, 21:16
This is pure Grandstanding.
He won't get this measure theough without a lot of horsetrading and even then it's doubtful.Meanwhile to the uninformed voter (most of 'em methinks) he gets to look good and can blame failure on the other parties.

There will also be a £400m ish shortfall in funding from England in the form of Council Tax subsidy - apparently.

I'm all for taxing on the grounds of those with the broadest backs pay the most, but in Scotland there are a hell of a lot of low earners and people who don't work at all for various reasons. The higher earners will be subsidising these people on a flat rate basis with no heed to local requirements. Surely a truly LOCAL tax should be set in the various town halls.

Hats off to Salmond though, he is a very astute politican.
He is succeeding in driving a wedge between England and Scotland from the point of view of a resentful English populace who think the butter and the icing atop the cake is all going north of the border whilst they get the crumbs - and the bill for the ingredients.

leafylass
03-Sep-08, 21:40
Another hair-brained scheme from the SNP Government - in particular Eck wi' The Brass Neck.

I consider myself a patriotic Scot however this latest suggestion has me seriously considering whether I want to continue living in this country.

All his decisions to date suggest that he will bring this country to its knees. He's too short-sighted and also scared of losing the popular vote to accept that we need alternative power than just Hydro and Wind. Therefore whilst the rest of Britain, and the world for that matter, are looking to re-introduce nuclear power, due to future and current fuel crises (Russia & Middle East has us by the proverbials), Mr Salmond thinks that Wind and Water will do but is happy to let our beautiful Highland countryside be destroyed to achieve it.

Now he can't make up his mind whether Scotland can be self-financing or not.

One minute he's saying we can finance ourselves and then he's asking Westminster for money for Commonwealth Games and then to really top it off, he's now going to ask hard working people to contribute towards financing their "local" services based on their income NOT on the services they have access to.

Now I understand that there are plenty of people who are unable to work and should be fully entitled to the same services as others living in the same area but unfortunately there are also too many people who work the system and either choose not to work and live on handouts or, work on the fly, therefore not declaring their true earnings.

My family already pay a substantial amount of Community Tax per year for the limited services we receive in Caithness. This is no criticism of Caithness councillors but unfortunately our ties with Inverness mean that most of our money is invested in providing services for a growing city with a growing population of EU Nationals.

My husband and I have worked very hard over the years to find ourselves in jobs that pay decent wages only to find out that Mr Salmond plans to punish us for this. We'll definitely be paying more!! At the end of the day the very wealthy people will find ways round paying what they really should if its based on PAYE earnable salary.
Meantime, people who do not work through choice will continue to receive the same local services as me at no cost or less than before. More service in fact as whilst I'm out at work all day, they're at home using more water, and have the spare time to enjoy the facilities of our town.

This could be the trigger that starts off a 21st century version of the Highland Clearances but with more than the highlands clearing off to other places in UK or abroad. How will Scotland sustain itself then when all the professional people have left to work somewhere else where they are not punished for striving to achieve a better quality of life.

Alice in Blunderland
03-Sep-08, 21:42
Why should those who earn more be constantly penalised through taxes and various other charges ? ;)

DeHaviLand
03-Sep-08, 22:51
This is pure Grandstanding.
He won't get this measure theough without a lot of horsetrading and even then it's doubtful.Meanwhile to the uninformed voter (most of 'em methinks) he gets to look good and can blame failure on the other parties.

There will also be a £400m ish shortfall in funding from England in the form of Council Tax subsidy - apparently.

I'm all for taxing on the grounds of those with the broadest backs pay the most, but in Scotland there are a hell of a lot of low earners and people who don't work at all for various reasons. The higher earners will be subsidising these people on a flat rate basis with no heed to local requirements. Surely a truly LOCAL tax should be set in the various town halls.

Hats off to Salmond though, he is a very astute politican.
He is succeeding in driving a wedge between England and Scotland from the point of view of a resentful English populace who think the butter and the icing atop the cake is all going north of the border whilst they get the crumbs - and the bill for the ingredients.

We get funding from England? Come on now Percy, I had you down as a wiser man than that!

Melancholy Man
03-Sep-08, 22:56
We get funding from England?

Yes. A +ve real number minus another +ve but lesser real number gives a +ve real number. In terms of disparity of funds to the coffers from Scottish taxation and that part of North Sea oil in regional waters and that coming to Holyrood, this means a net funding.

Just like that!

DeHaviLand
03-Sep-08, 23:06
Yes. A +ve real number minus another +ve but lesser real number gives a +ve real number. In terms of disparity of funds to the coffers from Scottish taxation and that part of North Sea oil in regional waters and that coming to Holyrood, this means a net funding.

Just like that!

From England??? Think again!

Melancholy Man
03-Sep-08, 23:19
Sorry, Dehaviland, whichever way we look at the "it's Scotland's oil" clammer, the speaker ends up looking parochial and reactionary.

It's been pointed out often enough on this forum that the Westminster funding is greater than the revnues from that part of the North Sea oil you decree Scottish for it not to be necessary to cite again. Then we consider that a large swathe was transferred to nominal Scottish control from what, under terms of seperation, would be returned to what remains of the UK.

Then we consider that much of what is currently servicable, and almost all of un-tapped reserves you're banking on, exists in Shetland waters. After your and the Fish-heid's abandonment of the English lower-classes for petty nationalism and oil-snatch, don't be too surprised if the Shetlanders ain't too keen on relinquishing 'their' oil.

What are you going to do? Start appealing to their sense of community????

Oh, I'm sure you're about to say that your main concern is for the Scottish lower-classes and hope you could work with your neighbours in the remnants of the UK... you've misunderstood the question, alright?

Was it not you who wished for the Brown to remain so, at the next GE, England and Wales would go Tory for ever more?

Rheghead
03-Sep-08, 23:28
Was it not you who wished for the Brown to remain so, at the next GE, England and Wales would go Tory for ever more?

Isn't the full name of the tories the Conservative and Unionist Party?

DeHaviLand
03-Sep-08, 23:29
Sorry, Dehaviland, whichever way we look at the "it's Scotland's oil" clammer, the speaker ends up looking parochial and reactionary.

It's been pointed out often enough on this forum that the Westminster funding is greater than the revnues from that part of the North Sea oil you decree Scottish for it not to be necessary to cite again. Then we consider that a large swathe was transferred to nominal Scottish control from what, under terms of seperation, would be returned to what remains of the UK.

Then we consider that much of what is currently servicable, and almost all of un-tapped reserves you're banking on, exists in Shetland waters. After your and the Fish-heid's abandonment of the English lower-classes for petty nationalism and oil-snatch, don't be too surprised if the Shetlanders ain't too keen on relinquishing 'their' oil.

What are you going to do? Start appealing to their sense of community????

Oh, I'm sure you're about to say that your main concern is for the Scottish lower-classes and hope you could work with your neighbours in the remnants of the UK... you've misunderstood the question, alright?

Was it not you who wished for the Brown to remain so, at the next GE, England and Wales would go Tory for ever more?

Either you missed the point of my post completely, or you chose to ignore it. Either way, you then went on to totally misrepresent what was said, in your typically arrogant fashion.

Melancholy Man
03-Sep-08, 23:30
It's clear you're attempting to lay a honey-trap. So please tell us what your point is.


Isn't the full name of the tories the Conservative and Unionist Party? Yus, and I'd sooner gnaw off my arm that vote for *that* Unionist party. Did they not also have a majority of seats in Scotland 50 years ago? You know, Rheggie, I spoke to a reader of this parish's newsletter, and he asked, "wh-o-o-o-o-o is Rheghead?". He meant it dismissively, but I like you.

Rheghead
03-Sep-08, 23:37
local income tax = poll tax just worded differently

Nah,

local income tax ≠ poll tax

It is the complete opposite.

scotsboy
04-Sep-08, 06:31
I think it is a great idea.........personally:)

Welcomefamily
04-Sep-08, 07:13
But what about people who live in England but work in scotland?

scotsboy
04-Sep-08, 08:23
But what about people who live in England but work in scotland?

You pay for the services where you live.

Welcomefamily
04-Sep-08, 09:02
If that the case Carlisle is going to have a housing boom of families who work in the central belt earning 75k +, so it could produce a negative effect.
A lot of people would be better off.

Rheghead
04-Sep-08, 10:05
And what about folks who work in scotland but live in England and their works cash office is in England? What a nightmare.

scotsboy
04-Sep-08, 10:51
Administrative details - best bit is people who work in Saudi wont have to pay council tax for property they have in Scotland:) Thank you Alex!

Melancholy Man
04-Sep-08, 10:56
Administrative details - best bit is people who work in Saudi wont have to pay council tax for property they have in Scotland:) Thank you Alex!

Surely you don't mean tax-exiles and his nattering nabobs of nativity will be able to wriggle out of this??? I thought McMoonface was a man of the people, and not a Thatcherite!

scotsboy
04-Sep-08, 12:45
Not sure what you mean by "wriggle out of". I currently require to pay council tax on property that I own but don't currently live in, but if it moved to a local council tax then as I dont live or work locally I would not have to pay..........not sure if that is wriggling out of anything.
I don't think that my case is typical of the majority of people who will be effected by this proposed change.

Melancholy Man
04-Sep-08, 14:41
Oh, no, Scotsboy, you have a reasonable explanation for not paying: you don't work in Scotland. I'm thinking of the super-rich who'll develop a desire to living on the Isle of Mann.

Welcomefamily
04-Sep-08, 18:25
And what about folks who work in scotland but live in England and their works cash office is in England? What a nightmare.

They would possible charge for the extra work. [lol] Bigger deficit.

percy toboggan
04-Sep-08, 20:00
Isn't the full name of the tories the Conservative and Unionist Party?

I think that's aimed more at the Irish question.
I could be wrong...it has been known.;)

Alice in Blunderland
04-Sep-08, 21:11
Another hair-brained scheme from the SNP Government - in particular Eck wi' The Brass Neck.

I consider myself a patriotic Scot however this latest suggestion has me seriously considering whether I want to continue living in this country.

All his decisions to date suggest that he will bring this country to its knees. He's too short-sighted and also scared of losing the popular vote to accept that we need alternative power than just Hydro and Wind. Therefore whilst the rest of Britain, and the world for that matter, are looking to re-introduce nuclear power, due to future and current fuel crises (Russia & Middle East has us by the proverbials), Mr Salmond thinks that Wind and Water will do but is happy to let our beautiful Highland countryside be destroyed to achieve it.

Now he can't make up his mind whether Scotland can be self-financing or not.

One minute he's saying we can finance ourselves and then he's asking Westminster for money for Commonwealth Games and then to really top it off, he's now going to ask hard working people to contribute towards financing their "local" services based on their income NOT on the services they have access to.

Now I understand that there are plenty of people who are unable to work and should be fully entitled to the same services as others living in the same area but unfortunately there are also too many people who work the system and either choose not to work and live on handouts or, work on the fly, therefore not declaring their true earnings.

My family already pay a substantial amount of Community Tax per year for the limited services we receive in Caithness. This is no criticism of Caithness councillors but unfortunately our ties with Inverness mean that most of our money is invested in providing services for a growing city with a growing population of EU Nationals.

My husband and I have worked very hard over the years to find ourselves in jobs that pay decent wages only to find out that Mr Salmond plans to punish us for this. We'll definitely be paying more!! At the end of the day the very wealthy people will find ways round paying what they really should if its based on PAYE earnable salary.
Meantime, people who do not work through choice will continue to receive the same local services as me at no cost or less than before. More service in fact as whilst I'm out at work all day, they're at home using more water, and have the spare time to enjoy the facilities of our town.

This could be the trigger that starts off a 21st century version of the Highland Clearances but with more than the highlands clearing off to other places in UK or abroad. How will Scotland sustain itself then when all the professional people have left to work somewhere else where they are not punished for striving to achieve a better quality of life.

This is exactly how I feel on this issue. The more you earn the more you are penalised. Why?? its getting to the point its just not worth trying to better yourself. The services we recieve should reflect what we pay not what we earn.

Im not talking the mega rich who will probably get the accountants in to somehow dodge it anyway but those who are earning a slightly better than average wage. If this does come into force I can guarantee you we will be hit hard in our household.

I feel lately its getting beyond the joke there is NO incentive to get out and make a good earning for yourself because if you do look out the Government will be after you for it to help fund for those who dont want to. Who is the bigger mug. :(

percy toboggan
04-Sep-08, 21:39
Could the master politician have cocked up?
I hope so. I'm afraid almost every SNP spokesperson I see on the box tends to wind me up. I think it's their policy to goad the Anglo's - even those that would prefer to be Scots!

Melancholy Man
04-Sep-08, 21:41
Not just the Anglos, I rather hope the Shetlanders are waking up to them as well.

Rheghead
04-Sep-08, 23:05
Surely you don't mean tax-exiles and his nattering nabobs of nativity will be able to wriggle out of this??? I thought McMoonface was a man of the people, and not a Thatcherite!

Have you not noticed that they were never in the same room together?;)

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/Rheghead/Caithness/maggie-1.jpg

Melancholy Man
04-Sep-08, 23:25
He looks quite sexy there.

Rheghead
04-Sep-08, 23:34
He looks quite sexy there.

Sad man.:lol::roll:

Melancholy Man
04-Sep-08, 23:44
Now I come to think of it, the Brown looks a hell of a lot like Heathcliffe.

TBH
04-Sep-08, 23:48
I see now the cunning strategy by the tabloids. Compare our brilliant leader to that much reviled woman and then sit back and hope the voters go flooding back the the Labour party, it'll never work.[lol]

Melancholy Man
04-Sep-08, 23:56
It could be he is a Thatcherite, as well as much of a centralizer as Tony Blair. The SNP wasn't too fussed about the SSP's SST proposals (before King Louis sacrificed the party to his ego).

Rheghead
04-Sep-08, 23:58
I see now the cunning strategy by the tabloids. Compare our brilliant leader to that much reviled woman and then sit back and hope the voters go flooding back the the Labour party, it'll never work.[lol]

Never under estimate the stupidity of the British electorate. :)

TBH
05-Sep-08, 00:02
Never under estimate the stupidity of the British electorate. :)As someone once said, "The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity."