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Bad Manners
24-Aug-08, 15:27
I have just watched the grand prix and noticed how upbeat and jolly the other country's anthems are.
Is it time we updated our own or are you happy with it?
Billy Connely once suggested we change the tune t the theme tune from the archers any other suggestions

Metalattakk
24-Aug-08, 16:16
There's nothing wrong with 'God Save The Queen', is there?


God save the queen
her fascist regime
It made you a moron
a potential h bomb !

God save the queen
she aint no human being
There is no future
in englands dreaming

Dont be told what you want
dont be told what you need
Theres no future no future
no future for you

God save the queen
we mean it man (God save windowlene)
We love our queen
God saves (God save... human beings)

God save the queen
cos tourists are money
And our figurehead
is not what she seems

Oh God save history
God save your mad parade
Oh lord God have mercy
all crimes are paid

When theres no future
how can there be sin
We're the flowers
in the dustbin
We're the poison
in your human machine
We're the future your future

God save the queen
we mean it man
There is no future
in englands dreaming

No future for you
no future for me
No future
no future for you

scotsboy
24-Aug-08, 16:17
Nothing wrong with the current National Anthem, leave it as is.

brandy
24-Aug-08, 16:46
*grins* whats wrong with flower of scotland?

northener
24-Aug-08, 16:51
Perhaps the Krankies could be persuaded to record something.:D

scorrie
24-Aug-08, 16:59
I have just watched the grand prix and noticed how upbeat and jolly the other country's anthems are.
Is it time we updated our own or are you happy with it?
Billy Connely once suggested we change the tune t the theme tune from the archers any other suggestions

God Save The Queen is a dirge. Let's shunt it for something more upbeat with no words.

I nominate this classic, although played on a 78 record player it sounds uncannily like an Ice Cream Van jingle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAKhv4IQy5c

Kwality Man!! Usain Bolt himself would love it.

superted
24-Aug-08, 16:59
There's nothing wrong with 'God Save The Queen', is there?


Thanks for that[disgust]

justine
24-Aug-08, 17:00
There's nothing wrong with 'God Save The Queen', is there?

released by the sex pistols may 27 1977 for the queens jubilee.
But personaly i would leave it the way it is, they will change it when william becomes king.

Max
24-Aug-08, 17:05
Yea - to God Save the King!

plumber
24-Aug-08, 17:23
Why does people have the urge to change things all the time, nothing wrong with what we have already

tommy1979
24-Aug-08, 17:27
Rule Britannia for me.......:cool:


When Britain first, at heaven's command,
Arose from out the azure main,
Arose, arose, arose from out the a-azure main,
This was the charter, the charter of the land,
And guardian angels sang this strain:

Rule Britania!
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

The nations, not so blest as thee,
Must in their turn, to tyrants fall,
Must in ,must in, must in their turn, to tyrants fall,
While thou shalt flourish, shalt flourish great and free,
The dread and envy of them all.
(Chorus)
Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves.
Brittons never, never, never shall be slaves.

northener
24-Aug-08, 17:54
Rule Britannia for me.......:cool:

I agree Tommy, not that I think that we should change the Anthem, but 'Britannia' does it for me.

Did you know that the lyrics quoted are the original ones?

The line "Britannia rule the waves" was later changed to 'Britannia rules the waves" because by then - we did!:Razz

hotrod4
24-Aug-08, 18:14
Rule Britannia for me.......:cool:

I dig that one too! ;)
Its got a kinda laid back jive that all the cats dig :)

northener
24-Aug-08, 18:22
I dig that one too! ;)
Its got a kinda laid back jive that all the cats dig :)

.............nice........

scotsboy
24-Aug-08, 18:39
I suppose if we had to change, then Rule Britannia would be a very good choice. The lyrics were also written by a Scot.

Max
24-Aug-08, 19:25
I like that one too - (although I am quite happy with the one we've got) - I have to say the Britannia one is better

scorrie
24-Aug-08, 19:46
Rule Britannia for me.......:cool:

Jingoistic nonsense with zero relevance to modern Britain. Harking back to past "Glories" when we stole command of other countries and treated the people as second class citizens.

scotsboy
24-Aug-08, 19:56
Jingoistic nonsense with zero relevance to modern Britain. Harking back to past "Glories" when we stole command of other countries and treated the people as second class citizens.


.........in your humble opinion.

Welcomefamily
24-Aug-08, 21:03
It works for me to.

teenybash
24-Aug-08, 23:41
It is time there was a new National Anthem and we will probably see this happening when William takes the throne or Scotland gains independance... so either way it will be inevitable. ;)

scorrie
24-Aug-08, 23:45
.........in your humble opinion.

OK Wiseboy, tell me where Rule Britannia relates to Modern Britain?

It is one thing for guys working and living abroad to shout the odds about Britain, another thing entirely for them to rate a full time resident's input as "humble"

Everything I see from you lately shows you up as a shallow, bigoted individual who is stuck in the past. You are living in a day when foreigners doffed their cap to British people as standard. Those days are long gone.

I live in the UK full time. I tend to follow the trends. In case you haven't noticed from your position in the Middle East, taking the overseas dosh, that puts me in touch with the reality, rather than the half-baked "Facts" about how people choose their names in "Your Country", "Facts" which turn out to be incorrect on further inspection.

Stick to one thing at a time. You are trying to punch way above your weight.

Please do not refer to my opinion as "humble", I would crush you in a public debate, any day of the week. My mind is open and unbiased, a valuable tool when your audience is not made up of fellow bigots.

northener
24-Aug-08, 23:46
Jingoistic nonsense with zero relevance to modern Britain. Harking back to past "Glories" when we stole command of other countries and treated the people as second class citizens.

Any more of that Johnny Foreigner talk Scorrie, and I'll despatch a gunboat to make you see the error of your ways......

Kevin Milkins
24-Aug-08, 23:59
Its all going wonky again.:confused

Anne x
25-Aug-08, 00:05
It is time there was a new National Anthem and we will probably see this happening when William takes the throne or Scotland gains independance... so either way it will be inevitable. ;)


They will not change it for William why should they it was God Save the King for his great grandad before his Granny

Other lot well Who knows what they would pick if it ever happens

scorrie
25-Aug-08, 00:10
Any more of that Johnny Foreigner talk Scorrie, and I'll despatch a gunboat to make you see the error of your ways......

Aye, Saddam Hussein invades Kuwait and it's all wrong. Britain wanders in where it is not welcome and suddenly we are all proud about it. We are all too happy to condemn, but have little aptitude for investigating our OWN history.

Gunboat Diplomacy? Take a look at Britain of a weekend and they would be lucky to countenance "Steamboat Diplomacy" All Hands on Becks!!

scotsboy
25-Aug-08, 04:45
OK Wiseboy, tell me where Rule Britannia relates to Modern Britain?

It is one thing for guys working and living abroad to shout the odds about Britain, another thing entirely for them to rate a full time resident's input as "humble"

Everything I see from you lately shows you up as a shallow, bigoted individual who is stuck in the past. You are living in a day when foreigners doffed their cap to British people as standard. Those days are long gone.

I live in the UK full time. I tend to follow the trends. In case you haven't noticed from your position in the Middle East, taking the overseas dosh, that puts me in touch with the reality, rather than the half-baked "Facts" about how people choose their names in "Your Country", "Facts" which turn out to be incorrect on further inspection.

Stick to one thing at a time. You are trying to punch way above your weight.

Please do not refer to my opinion as "humble", I would crush you in a public debate, any day of the week. My mind is open and unbiased, a valuable tool when your audience is not made up of fellow bigots.


You have lost me with the half-baked 'facts" bit on hoe people choose their names??

You may crush me, but then again maybe not.........opinion.

hotrod4
25-Aug-08, 07:10
Jingoistic nonsense with zero relevance to modern Britain. Harking back to past "Glories" when we stole command of other countries and treated the people as second class citizens.

And flower of scotland is relevant to Modern scotland?, it harks back to past glories as well!!!.

Most countries National Anthems are about pride in your country and as we havent done much for a few centuries Rule Britannia is as close as we'll get ;).The national anthem debate will always be a tough one as there are so many sides and opinions,its an argument no-one stands much chance of winning as you'll never please everybody.
Who would decide a new national anthem?- If it went to a public vote whatver was "favourite" in England would win as they have a larger population. If you get a panel of "experts" that wouldnt work as some would not agree with them either.Its a no-win situation so best just stick with what we've got!

northener
25-Aug-08, 08:36
Perhaps I was right when I suggested the Krankies...no political agenda or jingosm.

hotrod4
25-Aug-08, 08:53
Perhaps I was right when I suggested the Krankies...no political agenda or jingosm.

Yip that would be fan dabi dozi!!!! ;)

I am jingoing my "ism" to the song now :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hlws5TKOfkE

davem
25-Aug-08, 08:58
The full version of the National Anthem is:

1. God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us;
God save the Queen!

2. O Lord our God arise,
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall;
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all!

3. Thy choicest gifts in store
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign;
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen!

4. Not in this land alone,
But be God's mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world over.

5. From every latent foe,
From the assassins blow,
God save the Queen!
O'er her thine arm extend,
For Britain's sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen!

6. Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!

I'm slightly surprised that nobody has mentioned verse 6 yet.
As a modern country the fact that it is there, to my mind means the whole thing should be ditched whether that verse is sung or not.

Dave

northener
25-Aug-08, 09:02
I only got 30 seconds into the Krankies song, after that I couldn't stand any more.

I now officially withdraw my request the have the Krankies involved in any new National Anthem. Also, I seem to have invented a new word in one of my posts: 'Jingosm'.....repeat after me - oism, oism, oism.

northener
25-Aug-08, 09:19
The full version of the National Anthem is:

1. God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us;
God save the Queen!

2. O Lord our God arise,
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall;
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all!

3. Thy choicest gifts in store
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign;
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen!

4. Not in this land alone,
But be God's mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world over.

5. From every latent foe,
From the assassins blow,
God save the Queen!
O'er her thine arm extend,
For Britain's sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen!

6. Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!

I'm slightly surprised that nobody has mentioned verse 6 yet.
As a modern country the fact that it is there, to my mind means the whole thing should be ditched whether that verse is sung or not.

Dave

Fair comment Dave, although that verse is never sung these days.

So we'd better ditch 'Flower of Scotland' pretty damn quick in that case?

Nationalistic pride is fine if it's taken in context.

For example:
Personally, being English, I have no problem with 'Flower of Scotland' at all - (even though it quite clearly draws attention to the massive victory over the English at Bannockburn) - and, I suspect, neither has the majority of the population of England.

I don't view the lyrics of 'Flower' as being anti-English or glorifying warfare and would be very disappointed if self-righteous prigs demanded the removal of something that has historical context and a national resonance (and that's not a snipe at you Dave). So maybe we can ignore 'the verse that's never sung', eh?

But, having an evil side to my nature and a penchance for stirring things up a bit:

How would the Scots react if the English decided to come up with an unofficial National Anthem that focussed on an huge victory by the English over Scotland?

How about 'Flowers of Flodden? Would this song be accepted by the Scots in the same way that 'Flower of Scotland' has been by the English?

Any thoughts?

scotsboy
25-Aug-08, 10:03
OK Wiseboy, tell me where Rule Britannia relates to Modern Britain?

It is one thing for guys working and living abroad to shout the odds about Britain, another thing entirely for them to rate a full time resident's input as "humble"

Everything I see from you lately shows you up as a shallow, bigoted individual who is stuck in the past. You are living in a day when foreigners doffed their cap to British people as standard. Those days are long gone.

I live in the UK full time. I tend to follow the trends. In case you haven't noticed from your position in the Middle East, taking the overseas dosh, that puts me in touch with the reality, rather than the half-baked "Facts" about how people choose their names in "Your Country", "Facts" which turn out to be incorrect on further inspection.

Stick to one thing at a time. You are trying to punch way above your weight.

Please do not refer to my opinion as "humble", I would crush you in a public debate, any day of the week. My mind is open and unbiased, a valuable tool when your audience is not made up of fellow bigots.





I’ll take your advice and stick to one thing at a time, first we can start with Rule Britannia and how it relates to Modern Britain (sic), I am assuming you know and are aware of the lyrics, the song speaks of a land which has been blessed, and hopes to flourish and its people free, it speaks of a land which is envied by others, and speaks of a country that will not stand for tyranny, it speaks of a country in which its cities will shine with commerce and it speaks of a place where its people will never be slaves, now in my humble opinion all of those things are positive, and as much relevant today a when they were written. It could be argued that Britannia is still seen as a paragon of virtue by many of those who strive and fight to go there and escape poverty, persecution and tyranny where they happen to live. But that is just my interpretation – I respect your right to read things differently.

I consider all of my opinions humble as they pertain to me, it is also a figure of speech, maybe you consider your opinions more important than other peoples, and I don’t think it matters much where someone lives as to their opinion……..well on this matter anyway.

Everything in your third paragraph is your opinion to which you are entitled, I disagree with it (apart from the part about those days being long gone), but c’est la vie.

I don’t mind punching above my weight, even if I get beaten it is no great embarrassment, because hey I’m punching above my weight, I’m the underdog……..far more embarrassing for the favourite to get caught unawares by a left hook.

As I said in a previous post you may “crush” me in public debate, or you may not. Personally I always find debate a learning experience, and would never consider attempting to “crush” another debater, but then I have a closed mind – it must be an open-minded thing

scotsboy
25-Aug-08, 10:05
The full version of the National Anthem is:

1. God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us;
God save the Queen!

2. O Lord our God arise,
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall;
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all!

3. Thy choicest gifts in store
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign;
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen!

4. Not in this land alone,
But be God's mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world over.

5. From every latent foe,
From the assassins blow,
God save the Queen!
O'er her thine arm extend,
For Britain's sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen!

6. Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!

I'm slightly surprised that nobody has mentioned verse 6 yet.
As a modern country the fact that it is there, to my mind means the whole thing should be ditched whether that verse is sung or not.

Dave


Nobody has mentioned verse 6 as it does not exist.

scotsboy
25-Aug-08, 10:06
And flower of scotland is relevant to Modern scotland?, it harks back to past glories as well!!!.

Most countries National Anthems are about pride in your country and as we havent done much for a few centuries Rule Britannia is as close as we'll get ;).The national anthem debate will always be a tough one as there are so many sides and opinions,its an argument no-one stands much chance of winning as you'll never please everybody.
Who would decide a new national anthem?- If it went to a public vote whatver was "favourite" in England would win as they have a larger population. If you get a panel of "experts" that wouldnt work as some would not agree with them either.Its a no-win situation so best just stick with what we've got!

To be fair to Scorrie he has not mentioned Flower of Scotland. It is also not the National Anthem.

davem
25-Aug-08, 10:11
Nobody has mentioned verse 6 as it does not exist.

Ah sorry my primary school teacher must have made it up! - ever used google?

hotrod4
25-Aug-08, 10:13
I dont really care what the anthem is, but I do love Rule Brittania(leaving myself open again for the bigotry police to interpret that as something else and attak ;))

I think as long as its a tune that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up then thats fine by me.
An anthem should make you feel proud, just look at Chris Hoy when the anthem was played when he won to see how much it means to him.

You will never please everyone in the choice, thats what makes us all unique!

scotsboy
25-Aug-08, 10:14
Yes, I have used google - maybe you should try it.........maybe you will find this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_Queen

Welcomefamily
25-Aug-08, 10:19
Versus 6 does exist, just never played
http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/anthem.html#full

http://www.know-britain.com/songs/national_anthem.html

hotrod4
25-Aug-08, 10:34
OK Wiseboy, tell me where Rule Britannia relates to Modern Britain?

It is one thing for guys working and living abroad to shout the odds about Britain, another thing entirely for them to rate a full time resident's input as "humble"

Everything I see from you lately shows you up as a shallow, bigoted individual who is stuck in the past. You are living in a day when foreigners doffed their cap to British people as standard. Those days are long gone.

I live in the UK full time. I tend to follow the trends. In case you haven't noticed from your position in the Middle East, taking the overseas dosh, that puts me in touch with the reality, rather than the half-baked "Facts" about how people choose their names in "Your Country", "Facts" which turn out to be incorrect on further inspection.

Stick to one thing at a time. You are trying to punch way above your weight.

Please do not refer to my opinion as "humble", I would crush you in a public debate, any day of the week. My mind is open and unbiased, a valuable tool when your audience is not made up of fellow bigots.

From my point of view arent you attacking scotsboy because of where he lives? Isnt that a form of bigotry in itself, or is it just the opinions that disagree with yours that are bigoted.(bigot seems to have overtaken Racist as the buzz word of the moment on here!)

As you are a gambling man Scorrie are you taking bets on the Scorrie vs Scotsboy Heavyweight debator championship of the org? Whats the odds?, I suppose as long as the winner isnt descibed as a "master" then that would be ok! ;) Thats one title I woudnt want!!!

Kevin Milkins
25-Aug-08, 10:36
The Welsh national anthem always makes me feel proud and near to tears.:~(
The sad thing is ,I dont know the words or what its about.:(
Does that make me unpatriotic?:confused

davem
25-Aug-08, 10:36
Yes, I have used google - maybe you should try it.........maybe you will find this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_Queen

Read your own link, it says that verse was abandoned, that would tend to imply its existance would it not? That being said wikipedia is hardly able to be taken as clear proof of anything one way or another.

tigger2u
25-Aug-08, 11:45
Perhaps I was right when I suggested the Krankies...no political agenda or jingosm.


just as long as it isnt the Bay City Rollers and Shangalang [lol]

Welcomefamily
25-Aug-08, 12:54
The Welsh national anthem always makes me feel proud and near to tears.:~(
The sad thing is ,I dont know the words or what its about.:(
Does that make me unpatriotic?:confused

No its not about words its about the feelings,

I dont know the words to more than the first two verses of God save the Queen but when I heard it played as they collected their Gold medals, I felt pride and often had a lump in my throat.
The song is nothing more than a focus of our attention on the achievement.

joxville
25-Aug-08, 13:07
For Scotland I would favour Dougie Maclean's Caledonia

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pMH0HlrccMs

England can have....I don't care actually.

But I suppose we'll be stuck with God Save The Queen for a few years yet, even though it is a dirge.

hotrod4
25-Aug-08, 16:01
For Scotland I would favour Dougie Maclean's Caledonia

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pMH0HlrccMs

England can have....I don't care actually.

But I suppose we'll be stuck with God Save The Queen for a few years yet, even though it is a dirge.

Good choice if we had to have our own one.

scotsboy
25-Aug-08, 17:16
Read your own link, it says that verse was abandoned, that would tend to imply its existance would it not? That being said wikipedia is hardly able to be taken as clear proof of anything one way or another.

I don't think I said it never existed, I think I said it does not exist.......there is a difference. I agree about Wikipedia, perhaps these links will provide some further information:

http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/features/articles/monscot.html

http://thecapitalscot.com/pastfeatures/godsave.html

scorrie
26-Aug-08, 15:41
You have lost me with the half-baked 'facts" bit on hoe people choose their names??

You may crush me, but then again maybe not.........opinion.

I was referring to your information that Muslims had to take a Muslim name. It was incorrect. Sorry for not "baking" that fully clear ;)

scorrie
26-Aug-08, 15:43
From my point of view arent you attacking scotsboy because of where he lives? Isnt that a form of bigotry in itself, or is it just the opinions that disagree with yours that are bigoted.(bigot seems to have overtaken Racist as the buzz word of the moment on here!)

As you are a gambling man Scorrie are you taking bets on the Scorrie vs Scotsboy Heavyweight debator championship of the org? Whats the odds?, I suppose as long as the winner isnt descibed as a "master" then that would be ok! ;) Thats one title I woudnt want!!!

I don't care where Scotsboy lives. I just question how "in touch" with the state of your home country you can be, when you live outwith it.

scorrie
26-Aug-08, 15:47
And flower of scotland is relevant to Modern scotland?, it harks back to past glories as well!!!.

Most countries National Anthems are about pride in your country and as we havent done much for a few centuries Rule Britannia is as close as we'll get ;).The national anthem debate will always be a tough one as there are so many sides and opinions,its an argument no-one stands much chance of winning as you'll never please everybody.
Who would decide a new national anthem?- If it went to a public vote whatver was "favourite" in England would win as they have a larger population. If you get a panel of "experts" that wouldnt work as some would not agree with them either.Its a no-win situation so best just stick with what we've got!

I never mentioned Flower of Scotland. If you search the threads on the org, you will find that I don't like the song, for the same reasons I don't like Rule Britannia. I found the relevant thread scroll down to post number 49

http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=8127&page=3&highlight=FLOWER+SCOTLAND

scotsboy
26-Aug-08, 16:21
I was referring to your information that Muslims had to take a Muslim name. It was incorrect. Sorry for not "baking" that fully clear ;)

Oh, ok - I think I did stand corrected on that at the time, but freely admit I got it wrong.

scotsboy
26-Aug-08, 16:25
I don't care where Scotsboy lives. I just question how "in touch" with the state of your home country you can be, when you live outwith it.

I think in terms of news, current affairs and politics you can keep up to date pretty well - loads of information avaialble from lots of sources. Even reviewing blogs from different persepctives can give you an impression of what people think on the ground........but I suppose there is no comparison with personal experience. I suppose you could ask how in touch those in the Central belt are with those who live in the Highlands and Islands, I think I could claim to be more so than the majority of them.

bobandag16
26-Aug-08, 17:18
I have just watched the grand prix and noticed how upbeat and jolly the other country's anthems are.
Is it time we updated our own or are you happy with it?
Billy Connely once suggested we change the tune t the theme tune from the archers any other suggestions
land of hope and glory' your land our land .just lucky to be british.