Yearly Jags Boosters and Microchipping.

[Roughshooter]

Yesterday (1/8/08) and to-day I with my dogs will be at a show, at the show Yesterday the display in the main arena by dogs was cancelled due to the current outbreak of kennel cough and the owners of the display dogs did not want to risk them catching it. Another display away from the main area and done only by dogs who can provide proof of jags went ahead.

This got me thinking as I walked around, there was a large number of people with dogs of all breeds and ages, and speaking a large number all seemed unaware of "kennel cough" and I would say only about a third had their dogs Jagged, and even less had them microchipped. To me most alarming of all was some puppies 16weeks old and "NO" jags and their owner had several for sale.

So just as a general question, Is it now something owners dont do? If so why? cost? etc. All my dogs have boosters and all are Microchipped and have tags on their collars (as required by law) something else I noticed missing on a large number of dogs too.

Whats you view?

[Torvaig]

Roughshooter, yet another reminder to anyone thinking of taking on a dog as a pet that they are responsible for its health and safe upbringing by ensuring that they have all the necessary innoculations available to them.

Many people fall in love with the idea of buying a puppy but don't always know of the ongoing cost of giving them a home and protecting them from infections from other animals. As well as vetinary costs, I would advise them to seriously look at the expenses of feeding, grooming, ensuring a safe place for them to exercise in, bedding and toys as well as insurance and kennel expenses when going on holiday or having to go into hospital etc.

To not have the puppy/dog safeguarded from diseases/worms etc., isn't fair to them and makes it impossible to put them to kennels which all require proof of innoculations etc.

A dog makes a wonderful companion but comes with responsibilities as most pet owners know but some potential owners aren't always aware of.

[neepnipper]

I have 9 dogs, they all have their yearly boosters, have name tags and microchips and are treated with Frontline every 2 months and wormed every 4 - 6 months.
A dog is a big resposibility, if you can't look after one properly then don't bother having one!

[Tyke]

Which dog show was it. The correct term for Kennel Cough is Cannine Bronchitus. I hate the so called connection between Kennels and the infection, as if it is the only place it can be caught.

[ANNIE]

My dog gets his booster every year and also his kennel cough as standard as you never know when you might have to put your dog into kennels at short notice and most respectable kennels wont take them unless they have had their kennels cough 3 weeks before going in. He just got his done last week and cost me £54 for booster and kennel cough some people might think its alot of money but I think it should be taken on as part of one the exspenses of owning a dog. Your dog does not have to be in kennels to contract this.

[Roughshooter]

Which dog show was it. The correct term for Kennel Cough is Cannine Bronchitus. I hate the so called connection between Kennels and the infection, as if it is the only place it can be caught.

Sorry but I would have to differ on your correct name it is in fact
Infectious Bronchitis. The disease is caused by a mixture of viruses and bacteria, which pass easily from dog to dog as a droplet infection, wherever dogs congregate – in boarding kennels, dog shows, training classes, or simply out on walks.
If your dog is infected with Kennel Cough, the first thing that you are likely to notice is a dry, wretching cough. Depending on how severe the infection is, your dog may also exhibit signs including :- lethargy, reluctance to eat, fever, runny eyes and/or nose and depression, similar symptoms to human ‘flu’, kennel cough can sometimes be fatal.

Unfortunately, there is no specific treatment . The most important thing that you can do for your dog once infected, is to rest him or her. Antibiotics may be prescribed to prevent secondary bacterial infections which could lay your dog open to pneumonia etc.

Kennel Cough frequently lasts for 4 weeks, and your pet will be contagious to other dogs for up to 3 months!

Oh and the show, It was the Field Sports Fair at Moy and I will also be at the Black Isle show next week too, yes with my dogs Kennel Cough permitting.

[crustyroll]

I got both my eldest bitches covered for kennel cough and to be honest it wasn't worth the money. I'm not saying this because I grudge the money but because it's like catching the human cold, there are so many viruses out there that they can still catch some type of kennel cough no matter what you do.

I've found 'kennel cough nosodes' are far more effective at preventing and curing kennel cough. I know of 4 separate dogs in different households that have been treated with 'nosodes' rather than the conventional spray. All of these dogs did not contract the same kennel cough that affected the household's other dogs first.

It's a huge debate but please don't make out that dog owners who don't vaccinate their dogs are being irresponsible. What I find more irresponsible is continuing to vaccinate a dog that is not 100% healthy and by this I include skin allergies, sensitivity, dodgy tums etc, when the vaccine manufacturers clearly state not to. This is when adverse reactions can occur or the said condition made worse.

I give all my dogs homeopathic nosodes. Nosodes are made from the same starting material as the vaccines (pus, virus) but without all the added chemicals. Just because it's not the 'norm' does not mean that it wont work. I forgo any holidays and stay at home with my dogs as the kennels won't accept dogs that have been given nosodes.

[Liz]

It's a huge debate but please don't make out that dog owners who don't vaccinate their dogs are being irresponsible. What I find more irresponsible is continuing to vaccinate a dog that is not 100% healthy and by this I include skin allergies, sensitivity, dodgy tums etc, when the vaccine manufacturers clearly state not to. This is when adverse reactions can occur or the said condition made worse.

I give all my dogs homeopathic nosodes. Nosodes are made from the same starting material as the vaccines (pus, virus) but without all the added chemicals. Just because it's not the 'norm' does not mean that it wont work. I forgo any holidays and stay at home with my dogs as the kennels won't accept dogs that have been given nosodes.

Completely agree with you Crustyroll.

When Benjy was a puppy I contacted John Burns (of Burns pet food) who is a veterinary surgeon and he told me that he does not believe in boosters.

It is entirely up to the individual whether to vaccinate;flea or worm their pets but please don't make me feel like an irresponsible pet owner just because I choose not to pump my pets with chemicals.

I think it is far more important to boost their immune systems so they are more able to fight off illnesses. I do this by feeding a 'natural' diet which excludes colourings, additives etc and giving supplements and homeopathic nosodes.
I treat illnesses with homeopathic remedies etc but always take them to the vets if I am at all worried or not sure what is the matter. I will give 'conventional' remedies when I feel this is the correct thing to do.

My animals are my life and I would never do anything to jeopardise their health and did a lot of research before going the more 'natural' route.

Like Crustyroll I choose not to take holidays so my cats and dog do not need to go into care.

[Roughshooter]

Crustyroll, I find your post very interesting, "some type of kennel cough" is there more than one type?

Infectious Bronchitis, or (canine infectious Bordetellosisits tracheobronchitis) to give it its full title Is a mixture of bacterium and virus. Parainfluenza, Bordetella bronchiseptica although it may just be one or the other.

Infectious organisms ride in the exhaled air of an infected dog, carried within microscopic water droplets. A susceptible dog inhales these infectious agents, which then attach to the lining of the trachea and upper airway passages. These agents multiply rapidly resulting in damage to the respiratory tract causing the so called cough, and thats about the only type of kennel cough I know of unless a new strain has been found in the last week that as yet I have not been told about, so could you tell me more about the types you refer to.

Nosodes, contents are the same as the vaccine without one chemical (Potassiumsorbate) which is used in human flu jags and some headache tablets, this makes them around 60% less effective than the jags, for your 4 that had no problems using them, I can show 10 that didnt and returned to what you call the 'norm'

Now before you start with the you are having a go at me because Your not the 'norm' Im not I recommend homeopathic treatments, and had great results with one of my own dogs with a skin conditioned which was cleared using dermalonx when other methods failed. I also recommend the use of Hydrotherapy and Accupunture, so please dont throw that at me.

Do you jag you dogs at all? against Distemper, Hepatits, Laptospirosis and Parvovirus in the single jag (DHLP-P)? If not what do you use and what sucess rate do you have? and I am interested to know.

What about Parasites, Hook, Round, Tape, Whipworms, Coccida and Giardia not forgetting the local pain in the rear the good old Tick how do you deal with them?

I see you did not comment on Microchipping what do you think of that? I am interested.

[Roughshooter]

Liz,

You feed a 'Natural' diet may I ask what it is you feed and what if anything you add to it.

How do you protect against the Parasites, and what would make you use 'conventional' medicines.

[crustyroll]

Crustyroll, I find your post very interesting, "some type of kennel cough" is there more than one type?

Clearly I didn't word it correctly, Kennel Cough is Kennel Cough but it's the virus and bacterium of which that particular cough is made up of that can change.

"Kennel Cough - There is no vaccine for complete protection against infectious canine cough. Thirteen different viruses and bacteria are implicated as its cause. Currently vaccines are available for 3 of the 13 known components of the disease complex. These three include Parainfluenza, Adenovirus Type 2, and Bordetella. By vaccinating for these 3 diseases, 90% of the cases of kennel cough can be eliminated. Canine cough is usually a mild, self-limiting disease, but it can develop into a severe bronchopneumonia, especially in younger dogs. The most common sign of this disease is a harsh unproductive cough that leads to gagging or even vomiting"

Can you tell me where you found this information so that I can read it for myself?



Nosodes, contents are the same as the vaccine without one chemical (Potassiumsorbate) which is used in human flu jags and some headache tablets, this makes them around 60% less effective than the jags, for your 4 that had no problems using them, I can show 10 that didnt and returned to what you call the 'norm'


What about Parasites, Hook, Round, Tape, Whipworms, Coccida and Giardia not forgetting the local pain in the rear the good old Tick how do you deal with them?

I use holistic wormer every month for the control of worms as well as a product called DE. This is given in their food and it can also be applied to their coat to help control and kill flees and ticks. I also give garlic tablets as this helps to make their bodies less appealing to flees and ticks and use a good old fashioned tick hook to remove any others.


I see you did not comment on Microchipping what do you think of that? I am interested.

I have two microchipped and so far have not had any problems with the chip or movement in the body. I am not convinced that they are the complete problem solvers that people think they are when it comes to identifying a dog, but at the present time there are very few alternatives available. I have not chipped my other dogs as I do not have a need to at the moment.

Oh, and as to vaccinating my dogs, 2 have had their initial vaccinations plus a booster but none for last few years. My other 3 have not had any vaccinations of any kind, they have only been given nosodes to cover the main diseases from 4 weeks of age. These are the one's that have NEVER contracted Kennel Cough when my older two, that were vaccinated for everything that we are told they should have, have had KC 3 times. We've never had upset tummies, skin allergies, bad breath, itching, sickness, lethargy since switching to a natural approach... maybe I've just been lucky???

I raw feed my dogs and try to live by the principle of building their immune system so that they can fight off infections and any that they do catch they seem to be less troubled by them and bounce back quicker.

[Liz]

Liz,

You feed a 'Natural' diet may I ask what it is you feed and what if anything you add to it.

How do you protect against the Parasites, and what would make you use 'conventional' medicines.


I feed Benjy my dog on Naturediet. He also eats carrots both raw and cooked (he would eat more veg but they give him bottom burps!).For a treat he gets Tripe sticks.
I give him a really good range of supplements from Higher Nature which were developed by a homeopathic vet.

The cats are a bit more difficult as they are so fussy! I give them food like Almo Nature;Yarrah:Forthglade and Schmusy which is all pure meat with no colourings and additives etc.

I give Benjy a herbal remedy called Billy No Mates to protect against fleas etc and he also wears a magnetic device on his collar which (hopefully)repels ticks.
I give my cats the homeopathic remedy Sulphur.
They all get a homeopathic wormer which I get from a qualified homeopath.

Re the use of 'conventional' medicines I would obviously give them pain relief if needed after surgery or injury. One of my cats is on medication for a heart murmur. I also give him Neem ( I was told by a homeopathic Vet that this is good for heart problems.It has the same effect as aspirin but without the side effects) a product called E3 AFA which is Klamath Lake Algae(my cat Suzy also gets this and it has made a real difference to a chronic skin problem) and CoQ10.
I would assess each situation and then make a choice whether to give 'complementary' or 'conventional' or a combination of both.

I am not at all against conventional medicine but just think that , as with people, they can be overused. Antibiotics are given 'just in case' there is an infection.

We all do what we can for our pets and as long as we are doing our best and giving them lots of love and care then that is all we can do.
There is so much 'advice', which is often conflicting, that it can be very confusing.:confused

[Roughshooter]

Crustyroll, I disagree on a number of counts with the statement explaining kennel cough, if my memory serves me correctly this is an extract from a paper written by Prof Quintin Mckeller BVMS Phd DVM DipECVPT CBiol FIBIOL FRAgs MVRCS FRSE for the programme vets school back in the late 80s early 90s and since the we have of course moved on and things have improved, so where did you get it as Id like to read the whole thing to check thats what it is.

My information comes from the August 2007 paper written by Dr Holly Nach DVM MS MCVRS, and made available in the October 2007 issuse of the RVC by-monthly News, Im sure I could find someone who still has a copy if you wish.

I am somewhat confused with the vaccinating lines of you post. In your first post you say you know of 4 separate dogs in different households that were treated with Nosodes that did'nt get KC when the other dogs in the house had it. Then in your last post you say your 3 dogs who have never had Conventional treatment are the ones who never got KC when your 2 who have had conventional treatment got KC, now unless I have missed something that not in different households is it?

Also in your first post you say you find it irresponsiable to continue to vaccinate when the dogs health is in question, skin complaints etc when the manufacturers state not to, if this is happening then I would not want to be the vet doing it because there are serious legal issuses there if anything happened to the dog, and if your vet is doing so I suggest you report him and change vets PDQ I for one would not use them if I knew that was happening, so perhaps you could expand on this a little as to where this information has come from.

Microchipping is slowly catching on but as the equipment to read the chip is rather expensive not as many places as I'd like to see has them but things are getting cheaper all the time so heres hoping, apart from the very first chips which came out quite a few years ago now I am not aware of may problems with the chip itself about 2 in 1000 are deemed to be faulty in so way and need removal by way of a minor op.

When it comes to feeding you pay your money and take your choice but I must say that I am inclined to agree with you that feeding raw food in some cases improves the dogs general health. I also have papers on a raw food diet and dog food diets and know of two due for release later this year one on each which should make interesting reading.

[Roughshooter]

Liz thanks for your input.

In some cases I agree with you we are to quick to use medicines on ourselves as well as our animals however in saying that prevention is better the cure.

The thing I am interested in is the Magnetic device does it work? I know of a couple that would find one useful for a couple of their greyhounds and not just for tick prevention. Where did you get it? and I will pass on the details Thanks

[Liz]

Liz thanks for your input.

In some cases I agree with you we are to quick to use medicines on ourselves as well as our animals however in saying that prevention is better the cure.

The thing I am interested in is the Magnetic device does it work? I know of a couple that would find one useful for a couple of their greyhounds and not just for tick prevention. Where did you get it? and I will pass on the details Thanks


I totally agree that prevention is better than cure and that is why I give my pets the supplements I do and give them such a high quality food even though it is a lot more expensive.

With re the magnetic device all I can say is that I walk my dog Benjy often in grassy areas and he hasn't had any ticks hitch a ride and he doesn't have fleas!
Here is the link for it http://www.tower-health.co.uk/ambrowCart/shop/show_details.php?ref=FC

You say your friends would find it useful for their greyhounds 'not just for tick prevention'? It only works against fleas and ticks.

I have one which has been 'activated' (lasts one year so doesn't run out until April 2009)as I was going to get my cat to wear it but he hates it!

If you pm me your friends' details I would happy to post it to them with my compliments. It's only lying in a drawer.

[crustyroll]

Crustyroll, I disagree on a number of counts with the statement explaining kennel cough, if my memory serves me correctly this is an extract from a paper written by Prof Quintin Mckeller BVMS Phd DVM DipECVPT CBiol FIBIOL FRAgs MVRCS FRSE for the programme vets school back in the late 80s early 90s and since the we have of course moved on and things have improved, so where did you get it as Id like to read the whole thing to check thats what it is.

My information comes from the August 2007 paper written by Dr Holly Nach DVM MS MCVRS, and made available in the October 2007 issuse of the RVC by-monthly News, Im sure I could find someone who still has a copy if you wish.

As I don't have access to the RVC by-monthly News I cannot disagree with you. My own vet had said that the KC vaccine will not prevent my dog catching another strain of the virus.



I am somewhat confused with the vaccinating lines of you post. In your first post you say you know of 4 separate dogs in different households that were treated with Nosodes that did'nt get KC when the other dogs in the house had it. Then in your last post you say your 3 dogs who have never had Conventional treatment are the ones who never got KC when your 2 who have had conventional treatment got KC, now unless I have missed something that not in different households is it?

Sorry that was confusing, my own dogs were in addition to the 4 other dogs that I know of. All of those other dogs were raw fed and had nosodes and no vaccinations.



Also in your first post you say you find it irresponsiable to continue to vaccinate when the dogs health is in question, skin complaints etc when the manufacturers state not to, if this is happening then I would not want to be the vet doing it because there are serious legal issuses there if anything happened to the dog, and if your vet is doing so I suggest you report him and change vets PDQ I for one would not use them if I knew that was happening, so perhaps you could expand on this a little as to where this information has come from.

This is happening. If you go to the manufacturers website of the vaccines you will see in their Safety Data Sheets that it advises vets not to vaccinate a dog that is not 100% completely healthy. The vets usually listen to their chests, check their eyes and ask the owners if the dog is fit and fine. Many owners don't think about the itchy skin or upset tums or link it to the vaccine.... it must be something else? The vets don't even link reactions to vaccinations unless its immediate and they don't have to report a reaction either. The owner of the dog needs to request the vet to report a suspected reaction for the manufacturers to get a truer picture of how it affects our animals.

A pup recently got it's first vaccination and started to itch like mad so they took it back to the vet. What did the vet do? It could be flees but couldn't see any so proceeded to add more chemicals to the pups system than it had to cope with already. The said pup then took a reaction to the flee treatment. A littermate had a similiar reaction but didn't itch quite so badly, whereas one that still had not had his jags was perfectly fine with no itching at all.

Have a look at this website, if everything quoted here can be taken as liable, then why hasn't she been sued or shutdown by the vaccine industry?

http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/

[Roughshooter]

I will be back to answer the posts here at the weekend.

Got another show to go to tomorrow so very busy sorry

[jean]

I was at moy gamefair was very sorry the working tests didnt go ahead. ( the scurry did tho.. my dogs daughter won a few things,. his son won a few last year )my dogs are vaccinated yearly against everything apart from KC. and all caught KC this year. they are all fine they just had a weeks antibs and it didnt slow them down at all. I kept them away from other dogs while they were coughing . the vet told me that the nose spray they use isnt always effective when I asked about prevention.
however my oldest dog is 10 and a half ive had working cockers for 25 years and this is the first time theyve ever caught it.
I also worm every 4-6 months or so (drontal) and despite this my oldest dog has had worms twice this year,. Im blaming either the raw green tripe or raw rabbit. or it could have been the sheeps poo which she is addicted to. so its 3 monthly worming from now on!

[Sandra_B]

What a fascinating thread! I had no idea there were homeopathic remedies for pets or that vaccinations could be optional as there were other methods. I'm going to have to look into that more deeply.

We have been micro-chipping our pets for years. Unfortunately it didn't help with our two Norwegian Forest cats. They were very beautiful cats and very friendly so I do think they were taken rather than lost.

One other micro-chipping story...we had a Golden Retriever years ago. A couple of days after getting him micro-chipped he was rolling around on his back on the floor in front of my chair. When he got up and walked away what did I see on the floor but the micro-chip!! I called him over and checked around the site where it had been inserted. Couldn't find anything wrong. I was waiting for the vet's office to answer the phone when I realised what it actually was...the squeaker from a rubber dog toy!

[Liz]

One other micro-chipping story...we had a Golden Retriever years ago. A couple of days after getting him micro-chipped he was rolling around on his back on the floor in front of my chair. When he got up and walked away what did I see on the floor but the micro-chip!! I called him over and checked around the site where it had been inserted. Couldn't find anything wrong. I was waiting for the vet's office to answer the phone when I realised what it actually was...the squeaker from a rubber dog toy!

That is so funny!!!!!:lol:

[Roughshooter]

Crustroll:- I said I would try and get you a copy of the vets mag if you wanted it cant promise but would try.

If a vet gives a vaccine against the manufacturers advice they should be reported for it is what I said and if your animal suffers any adverse effects related to that treatment then you could take the vet to court, what that has to do with another website you direct me to Im not sure.

Liz:- Thanks for your kind offer my friends are looking at
Magnetic treatment for their dogs joint problems follwing your post about it and are very hopeful it may help. If I come across anyone looking for a alternative method of tick controll I will keep you in mind again many thanks.

Last of all sorry for the delay in posting but had several shows to go to and with work to just not had time to get here.

[porshiepoo]

Quite a hot topic this one.

Whether or not an owner vaccinates every year is down to personal preference. There have been papers written by vets that claim yearly boosters are not only a waste of money but a waste of time also because the of the way in which these vaccines work. Many vets now recommend boosters every 3 years and I think nosodes are becoming more and more popular.

I used to have all my dogs vaccinated religiously, against everything and it still didn't prevent my Dane bitch from contracting Kennel cough (when she was in boarding kennels as it happens). She had it so severely we thought we were going to lose her. By the time we came off holiday, her weight had dropped drastically and she was refusing food despite the kennel owners getting her to the vet.
I've also had GSD's experience adverse reactions to vaccinations, from skin conditions to vomiting.

Now, all my dogs have their initial vaccinations and that is it. I worm them religiously and Frontline them religiously also. Perhaps that makes me a bad owner in the eyes of many but I can live with that. With the system I use now I have had absolutely no problems whatsoever. It isn't based on any monetary reason, purely my own experience and decision.