View Full Version : Change in the law re domestic abuse
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7528652.stm
Have to say I totally agree with this. Someone who is physically abused can have a diminished mental state and be in fear of their life and possibly the lives of their children. I know someone who works for Womens Aid, she says these women are so frightened they can sometimes turn up in just the clothes they stand up in. When she asked for items for the women and children she even requested half used toothpaste tubes as these were just as necessary as clothes and other toiletries.
I think it should also apply where male or female partners are affected.
cuddlepop
29-Jul-08, 17:03
While I agree the law needs tightened when it comes to domestic abuse,I'm not sure getting "away with murder" is right.
Who's going to decide if the woman had served years of abuse and eventually retaliated.Unless you've been in those shoes its very difficult to pass judgement.
I would personally like Woman's Aid to be allowed into more schools and educate younge adults that violence in any form is unacceptable.
Sometimes the girls really do wind the boys up and there the ones that are lifted.:confused
While I agree the law needs tightened when it comes to domestic abuse,I'm not sure getting "away with murder" is right.
Who's going to decide if the woman had served years of abuse and eventually retaliated.Unless you've been in those shoes its very difficult to pass judgement.
I agree, cuddlepop............there must be some mechanism of proving abuse, such as attending doctors/hospitals or photos, rather than taking the woman's word for it.
And it should apply to abused men as well..........at the moment, many of them are caught in the same trap as a woman is....they don't always explode and kill and as a result they are proscecuted as premeditated murder.
Personally, I'd find it easier to leave than to kill someone.
Instead of tackling the problem they are just as well saying if you murder someone under these circumstances we will go easy on you in court.
There are ways of getting away from that environment, it may not be easy but it's surely better than murdering someone?
I agree, cuddlepop............there must be some mechanism of proving abuse, such as attending doctors/hospitals or photos, rather than taking the woman's word for it.
And it should apply to abused men as well..........at the moment, many of them are caught in the same trap as a woman is....they don't always explode and kill and as a result they are proscecuted as premeditated murder.
Personally, I'd find it easier to leave than to kill someone.
This is good in theory but sometimes women are forced/feel obliged to lie to keep the abuse hidden. "I fell down the stairs" etc....
Remember Little Mo in Eastenders....?
Sapphire2803
29-Jul-08, 17:30
I agree, there is a lot of "conditioning" for a long time before the abuser ever raises their hand.
cuddlepop
29-Jul-08, 17:46
This is good in theory but sometimes women are forced/feel obliged to lie to keep the abuse hidden. "I fell down the stairs" etc....
Remember Little Mo in Eastenders....?
Yes they do agree that "they fell down the stairs" but usually a wee voice starts in their head that this just isnt right.Thats the time they need help to either get away or change their partners behaviour.
Mental abuse is even more difficult to spot as its usually done over a long period of time with the mental "slagging" worsening.
I dont believe they have no warning and snap, in my experience you do.
I actually prayed my X would fall down stairs and break his neck,choke on his own vomit,freeze to death......etc,etc.:~(
Sapphire2803
29-Jul-08, 18:00
Yes they do agree that "they fell down the stairs" but usually a wee voice starts in their head that this just isnt right.Thats the time they need help to either get away or change their partners behaviour.
Mental abuse is even more difficult to spot as its usually done over a long period of time with the mental "slagging" worsening.
I dont believe they have no warning and snap, in my experience you do.
I actually prayed my X would fall down stairs and break his neck,choke on his own vomit,freeze to death......etc,etc.:~(
Yep, I used to lay in bed looking at my ex and thinking "He's drunk, if I smother him with a pillow will anyone know?"
Luckily I have never suffered abuse in any extreme...but feel for anyone that has. I know of one girl who was abused by her partner for years, she took him back after every incident. What horrified me was that their son started acting in the same way. He sees women as lesser people which was encouraged by his father. In the end the woman said enough was enough after the partner slept with more than one woman whilst she was pregnant. The bloke was repentant (when caught in the act) and to the best of my knowledge has not been violent since.
I hope that if I was ever in that situation that I could walk away. What scares me is that behaviour breeds behaviour and the son seeing whats happening sees it as normal.
But I assume that neither of you did anything about it.............and was that because you were worried about prosecution, or just that you were averse to killing him?
I don't get the impression that it is necessarily a "soft" option......after all, you can get life for manslaughter...........but life is mandatory for murder......and there has never been the option to use the defence of provocation, (albeit long term), which is successfully used to reduce cases of those cracking and killing their partners immediately in a rage. to manslaughter.
cuddlepop
29-Jul-08, 19:31
But I assume that neither of you did anything about it.............and was that because you were worried about prosecution, or just that you were averse to killing him?
I don't get the impression that it is necessarily a "soft" option......after all, you can get life for manslaughter...........but life is mandatory for murder......and there has never been the option to use the defence of provocation, (albeit long term), which is successfully used to reduce cases of those cracking and killing their partners immediately in a rage. to manslaughter.
I left Oddquine and took the youngest with me to go and live in a friends caravan.
I knew if i stayed my thoughts wouldnt stay thoughts for long because I was becoming calculated with the "what ifs":eek:
percy toboggan
29-Jul-08, 20:22
Thou shalt not Kill has been around as a concept since the time of Moses.
This law is a charter for murder.
If one is being abused, beaten or mentally tortured it's easier to walk out of the door than to plunge a knife heartwards.
The two 'thoughts' expressed here, if put into action would equate to premediated murder. The weak need protecting yes, but they also need to take a reality check....'thou shalt not kill...and expect to get away with it.
percy toboggan
29-Jul-08, 20:25
The terminology I heard to day could also be a green light for 'honour killing'
"If any feels they have been unjustifiably wronged" it might count as a mitigating circumstance.
Right. That opens up all sorts of possibilities for those who feel the family's honour has been besmirched' It's a charter for medieval blood letting as much as owt else.
The terminology I heard to day could also be a green light for 'honour killing'
"If any feels they have been unjustifiably wronged" it might count as a mitigating circumstance.
Right. That opens up all sorts of possibilities for those who feel the family's honour has been besmirched' It's a charter for medieval blood letting as much as owt else.
Nope.......Percy.it is an effort to stop situations like the following........
: In 1991, Joseph McGrail walked free from court after standing trial for kicking his common-law wife to death. The judge said that his "nagging" wife "would have tried the patience of a saint" and gave him a two-year suspended sentence.
:: The following year, Abnash Bisla was killed by her husband, Rajinder Singh Bisla, in front of her two children.
Bisla said he had been nagged and the judge agreed that he had "suffered" from her "sharp tongue" and handed down a suspended sentence.
:: Sara Thornton stabbed her alcoholic husband Malcolm to death after he abused her and repeatedly beat her up.
In 1990, she was given a life sentence for murder by a judge who told her she could have walked out of the marriage at any time - only to be freed following a retrial six years later.
:: Teenage prostitute Emma Humphreys was convicted of murder and jailed for life after stabbing the man who had imprisoned and repeatedly raped her in 1985.
She spent over ten years in prison repeatedly trying to commit suicide until a campaign led to her successful appeal and release.
Fair? I don't think so.
cuddlepop
29-Jul-08, 21:43
Thou shalt not Kill has been around as a concept since the time of Moses.
This law is a charter for murder.
If one is being abused, beaten or mentally tortured it's easier to walk out of the door than to plunge a knife heartwards.
The two 'thoughts' expressed here, if put into action would equate to premediated murder. The weak need protecting yes, but they also need to take a reality check....'thou shalt not kill...and expect to get away with it.
Percy you seem a decent guy and could probably never begin to imagine degrading a woman either physically or mentally but some men do and can and also get a "kick" out of it.
A woman under these circumstances forgets what"normal" reality is.:(
It is not easy to walk away,it usually takes years not months and usually you walk more than once.
I know my thoughts would be construed as premeditated murder thats why with the help of Womans Aid I walked and did not go back.:D
Sapphire2803
29-Jul-08, 21:54
Percy you seem a decent guy and could probably never begin to imagine degrading a woman either physically or mentally but some men do and can and also get a "kick" out of it.
A woman under these circumstances forgets what"normal" reality is.:(
It is not easy to walk away,it usually takes years not months and usually you walk more than once.
I know my thoughts would be construed as premeditated murder thats why with the help of Womans Aid I walked and did not go back.:D
Ditto that
Best bit of legislation in ages.
May get misused by a few but will be a God send for many.God bless them an no need to elaborate.
Best bit of legislation in ages.
May get misused by a few but will be a God send for many.God bless them an no need to elaborate.How do you figure that legislation for manslaughter is a good thing?
How do you figure that legislation for manslaughter is a good thing?
Because what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
A bloke can get off with manslaughter because his wife annoyed him....when he could have walked away more easily than a long term abused wife.
So you have a pig for an old man-an there are some hogs out there-an he boils you over the brink-an you cut his head off- he will not torment torture or terrorise you or kids again.
An for deleting this sub human-you may be excused!
So you have a pig for an old man-an there are some hogs out there-an he boils you over the brink-an you cut his head off- he will not torment torture or terrorise you or kids again.
An for deleting this sub human-you may be excused!What an incredibly sad outlook you have on life.
Sapphire2803
29-Jul-08, 23:04
It's not legislation for manslaughter, that's the whole point. It's legislation which means that in rare circumstances, being found guilty of murder need not mean a life a sentence.
Not all men are the abusers, women can be just as guilty
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1076854.ece
Sapphire2803
29-Jul-08, 23:08
Yes, but it's incredibly rare
I wasn't aware the legislation was gender exclusive. It would apply to men and women............replacing the almost automatic "provocation" which in most cases results in a lesser sentence than anyone would get for GBH.
Seems fair to me.
So you have a pig for an old man-an there are some hogs out there-an he boils you over the brink-an you cut his head off- he will not torment torture or terrorise you or kids again.
An for deleting this sub human-you may be excused!
Only the abused can understand how much of a relief this must be. I feel for you all. Apparently 1 in 5 women will be abused by a partner in their lifetime so this law is very much needed.
I wonder if it will apply to same sex couples as well, men are abused by wifes and I am sure the same applies in gay couples as well.
Sapphire2803
30-Jul-08, 13:14
Right, I get the feeling that some people are getting the wrong end of the stick just slightly about this change in the law so her goes...
I'm going to say man and woman, but obviously this can be reversed or replaced to suit a same sex couple.
It doesn't cover the scenario where the wife is being beaten, snaps and smacks her husband around the head with a frying pan. That is manslaughter, there are already self defence pleas and whatnot in place for that.
It just covers the extremely rare occasion when rather than snapping while taking a beating and lashing out, something snaps in the wife's mind which says (for instance) "I'm gonna wait until he's doing the apologetic bit afterwards and poison his curry".
That is murder, it is pre-meditated and in the past, being found guilty of murder (which you would be in that case) has carried a mandatory life sentence.
So now, you would still be convicted of murder, but if (for instance) you have had a team of doctors in court, showing X-rays of previously broken bones and photos of a body full of scars from 20 years of abuse, it gives the judge a chance to say
"Yes, ok, you did murder him, it was pre-meditated, it was in cold blood, but most people would've done the same" Instead of following that with "Unfortunately murder carries a life sentence and there's nothing I can do about it" they can now decide a more fitting sentence.
percy toboggan
30-Jul-08, 17:46
Percy you seem a decent guy
Please don't attempt to dismantle an image I've been buildin for ages on 'ere!;):lol:
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