View Full Version : Beyond Belief
I couldn't believe my eyes when I read this story. Angela is a woman who has had seven abortions. Not for medical reasons, but purely because the pregnancies didn't fit in with her life at the time. She maintains that she used contraception but it didn't work. How can any woman justify having seven abortions? For one thing how could her body cope with it, emotionally and physically.
Statistics show that last year 1,300 women had at least their fifth abortion. Almost 950 of those having a termination had already had four previously. Almost 200 had already had five, 110 had had six before and 54, like Angela, seven or more. These figures are shocking. I feel for those amongst us who, through no fault of their own, are childless. How must they feel reading this? Life can be so unfair. I personally do not believe in abortion. I accept there are justified cases for medical reasons, but just because you simply "couldn't cope", seven times over, is incredible.
Is abortion now being used as a form of contraception? What do you think about her story?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1035053/I-blanked-emotions-SEVEN-abortions.html
if she doesn't want children she should have been sterilized. I can't understand doctors allowing this. Emotionally? I guess she doesn't have any.
i dont agree with what she has done, every child has a right to life. What gets me with alot of peoples opinions is she is damned if she does and damned if she doesnt, especially on here. You condemn people for having children and condemn them if they abort. Her reasons may not be just, it states that her body would not tolerate contraceptives, well i understand that, but i kept my children..Like i say its a no win situation.........
Hmmmm...... well there's a heck of a lot of contraception out there so that doesn't wash with me!
Hmmmm...... well there's a heck of a lot of contraception out there so that doesn't wash with me!
I have tried all and unfortunately i hemeorage with them, womens body can take reactions to an overload on hormones, so whether you buy it or not you may want to do some research as it is a common problem among women.
Murdina Bug
15-Jul-08, 11:36
Condoms? Surely not a problem - even if you have a latex allergy you can get a type that doesn't cause a reaction!
Male condom. Female condom. Coil. These are 3 that spring to mind. She surely must be at high risk of an STD if not using condoms anyway.
i dont agree with what she has done, every child has a right to life. What gets me with alot of peoples opinions is she is damned if she does and damned if she doesnt, especially on here. You condemn people for having children and condemn them if they abort. Her reasons may not be just, it states that her body would not tolerate contraceptives, well i understand that, but i kept my children..Like i say its a no win situation.........
Where have I condemned you or anyone else for that matter for having children? It's your choice to have ten or more children. It is of no interest or concern to me. If you have the same problems as this woman, an intolerance to contraception, then I admire you for not going down the same road as her. The fact that she knew her body would not tolerate contraceptives, is all the more reason why she should have taken responsibility for her actions. Falling pregnant once or twice because of this I could accept but seven times, well that's ridiculous. She was well aware of what would happen.
It's not a "no win" situation as you say. There is an alternative. In my book no sex means no babies. She chose to have sex knowing what the outcome would be. What gave her the right to destroy seven lives?
Kevin Milkins
15-Jul-08, 13:21
I have tried all and unfortunately i hemeorage with them, womens body can take reactions to an overload on hormones, so whether you buy it or not you may want to do some research as it is a common problem among women.
Umm, to much information
i dont agree with what she has done, every child has a right to life. What gets me with alot of peoples opinions is she is damned if she does and damned if she doesnt, especially on here. You condemn people for having children and condemn them if they abort. Her reasons may not be just, it states that her body would not tolerate contraceptives, well i understand that, but i kept my children..Like i say its a no win situation.........
I dont believe it is a no win situation, if she really didnt want to have children then why did she not get steralised [disgust]
changilass
15-Jul-08, 17:35
I think she could have used other methods of contraception.
Unfortunatly, as the law stands at the moment she can't be forced into being steralized.
Whilst I personnaly don't agree with what she has done, I would much rather that, than her being forced to having the kids and possibly neglecting them.
Until such a time as there is a change in the law this will continue to happen.
It is her choice, weather or not I agree with it. Abortion has to be legal, or else it becomes a dirty under the staircase industry that kills and maims people. The fault lies not in the existance of abortion and not even in this womans choice to abort, but in the education she received that leads her to make a very irrational and (in my opinion) harmful choice.
Melancholy Man
15-Jul-08, 18:28
if she doesn't want children she should have been sterilized.
Such as this (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-495495/Meet-women-wont-babies--theyre-eco-friendly.html) woman?
percy toboggan
15-Jul-08, 19:39
Mention of 'abortion' is always a hot potato on any internet forum.
However, I have to say I agree 100% with Venture.
The procedure is now used too often, for too many of the wrong reasons and
the original intent of the abortion bill has been distorted. Frankly, any woman who requires more than two abortions should be sterilised in all but the most extreme cases.
Late abortions are tantamount to murder in my opinion and must sicken many of the people who are expected to carry them out. Again, these should be restricted to the most extreme of circumstances.
Serial 'aborters' who use them as a form of afterthought birth control on a regular basis should be considered for post-natal abortion themselves...for they are a waste of good air.
I cant believe the doctor agreed to this many abortions. I thought you had to have good reason for a termination & 2 doctors had to agree.
Umm, to much information
one does not have to read to much into that i could have gone into it alot more than that, but i thought the process was to share info...
Where have I condemned you or anyone else for that matter for having children? It's your choice to have ten or more children. It is of no interest or concern to me. If you have the same problems as this woman, an intolerance to contraception, then I admire you for not going down the same road as her. The fact that she knew her body would not tolerate contraceptives, is all the more reason why she should have taken responsibility for her actions. Falling pregnant once or twice because of this I could accept but seven times, well that's ridiculous. She was well aware of what would happen.
It's not a "no win" situation as you say. There is an alternative. In my book no sex means no babies. She chose to have sex knowing what the outcome would be. What gave her the right to destroy seven lives?
No body has the right to destroy seven lives and i hope in a way that she feels the regret of her actions always, but she has a right.I agree that no sex means no babies, but we cant all abstain from marital nupts.
I know my body does not tolerate anything and the docs have given up basically.Luckily for me now i know when to abstain so as not to fall,
I know some have mentioned sterialisation, but it is a final dicision, thats 99% of the time cant be reversed and for any woman or man it can be a very frightening thought that they will never again be able to bear children.
This one needs to be sterialised just for the sake of all the lives she is terminating.She does not have any regard for those beings so she should be stopped from falling pregnant..
This woman was and is in the wrong. As has been pointed out, there are many forms of contraception which could have been tried after the first abortion.
The comment, 'This one needs to be sterilised', worries me a lot though.
The only problem I can see with this is the cost to the NHS for her stupidity. Of course it may have physical and mental effects on her but thats her business. From my point of view termination is a medical procedure. Every women should be entitled to them is she feels the need.
teenybash
16-Jul-08, 00:35
I am numbed after reading this article......what words can describe this females actions....there are none adequate.....
i dont agree with what she has done, every child has a right to life. What gets me with alot of peoples opinions is she is damned if she does and damned if she doesnt, especially on here. You condemn people for having children and condemn them if they abort. Her reasons may not be just, it states that her body would not tolerate contraceptives, well i understand that, but i kept my children..Like i say its a no win situation.........
When has anyone been condemned for having children?
As for this women, condoms and spermicide are effective and would help prevent STDs, not to mention other non-hormonal forms of birth control.
porshiepoo
16-Jul-08, 09:04
And we're all perfect and have perfect lives and perfect morals and have never ever ever done anything that anyone could claim borders being immoral? Yeah right!
This lady has made choices in her life that I have no doubt she will regret for the rest of her life and will probably continue to make those same choices.
Is she being offered the support and help she needs? Has she had any counselling with regards to the abuse she recieved as a child, never mind the toll that 7 terminations would have had on her mental health as well as physical health?
The woman obviously has serious mental health issues but all everyone wants to do is condemn her for the choices she has made. Incidentaly, those choices may be wrong and sick to most of us but the fact is that Termination has been made readily available to anyone who needs it, we can't condemn someone just because we believe she may have gone over her allotted quota.
Until you've walked a mile in her shoes.............................
So are we talking about governing who can have a termination, how many times etc etc?
Education is pretty slack in this area. Sex Education may get more of an appearance at schools nowadays but how many young kids have actually been told what happens during a termination? I didn't know the ins and outs until quite recently (I watched Silent Scream) and I must admit it made me feel ill.
Maybe we should lose the 'Quick fix' idea behind Termination and actually educate on the horrors of the process.
We have to be careful though as there are those people who genuinely need to terminate a pregnancy for the health and wellbeing of either the potential mother or the baby.
Melancholy Man
16-Jul-08, 09:34
And we're all perfect and have perfect lives and perfect morals and have never ever ever done anything that anyone could claim borders being immoral? Yeah right!
I say, old bean, what bizarre logic! Do I take it that if someone nicks your wallet, you'll reason that due to your having kicked a cat when you were a bairn, you're in no position to complain?
This lady has made choices in her life that I have no doubt she will regret for the rest of her life and will probably continue to make those same choices.
By her own admission, she's suffered from intense clinical depression, and appears to have had more ease arranging abortions than receiving psychiatric help. The assumption - aided, I am afraid, by asinine remarks "it's the woman's choice" (so why do we not allow abortions in week 34?) - that access to abortions is as inalienable a right as food and clean water. There will be cases where the condom breaks or other unavoidable social/emotional issues, but desist with the claim that there's just a cigarette-paper of difference between this and failure to understand the causal link between intercourse and pregnancy.
i hope that when she does decided that she wants a family, then she cant have any due to all her abortions, there are hundreds of woman out there desperate for one chance to be pregnant, yet the likes of this person, can abuse it then kill her babys because she simply doesnt want then, it is disgusting.
Kevin Milkins
16-Jul-08, 09:48
My dad has reminded me many times that I was the result of a condom breaking.
Thank god for british workmaship I say.
When has anyone been condemned for having children?
usually when its unemployed folk with a squad of kids the tax payer is paying for...
personally, i am not anti-abortion, i agree with a womans right to choose, but i do feel this woman has abused this right. Abortion should NEVER be used as a form of contraception IMHO.
And we're all perfect and have perfect lives and perfect morals and have never ever ever done anything that anyone could claim borders being immoral? Yeah right!
This lady has made choices in her life that I have no doubt she will regret for the rest of her life and will probably continue to make those same choices.
Is she being offered the support and help she needs? Has she had any counselling with regards to the abuse she recieved as a child, never mind the toll that 7 terminations would have had on her mental health as well as physical health?
The woman obviously has serious mental health issues but all everyone wants to do is condemn her for the choices she has made. Incidentaly, those choices may be wrong and sick to most of us but the fact is that Termination has been made readily available to anyone who needs it, we can't condemn someone just because we believe she may have gone over her allotted quota.
Until you've walked a mile in her shoes.............................
So are we talking about governing who can have a termination, how many times etc etc?
Education is pretty slack in this area. Sex Education may get more of an appearance at schools nowadays but how many young kids have actually been told what happens during a termination? I didn't know the ins and outs until quite recently (I watched Silent Scream) and I must admit it made me feel ill.
Maybe we should lose the 'Quick fix' idea behind Termination and actually educate on the horrors of the process.
We have to be careful though as there are those people who genuinely need to terminate a pregnancy for the health and wellbeing of either the potential mother or the baby.
You go on here about it being this woman's choice to have seven abortions. What choice did the seven babies have? None.
'The reason why I had so many abortions is that I didn't want to bring a child into the world unless my situation was perfect - but it never was.
'With each termination I felt it was my responsibility to get on with my own life and forget about it. After each one I just blanked out the emotions and never thought about it. I felt no remorse at all.'
Does this sound like a statement from a woman who has regrets about what she has done? Her whole story is about me, me, me. Never once did she consider that there were two people in her "not so perfect situation."
You are right. Nobody is perfect. We have all made mistakes, and I'd say the majority of us have learned from them. Obviously this woman didn't.
usually when its unemployed folk with a squad of kids the tax payer is paying for...
.
Job Seekers Allowance means you are unemployed but willing and able to work. If people find themselves in that situation they deserve all the help they can get to get back to work.
IMHO people here (and elsewhere) have complained about others living a lifestyle where they choose to live off benefits to raise their children and the public foots the bill, rather than the number of children.
IMHO people here (and elsewhere) have complained about others living a lifestyle where they choose to live off benefits to raise their children and the public foots the bill, rather than the number of children.
And rightly so!
changilass
16-Jul-08, 21:40
i hope that when she does decided that she wants a family, then she cant have any due to all her abortions, there are hundreds of woman out there desperate for one chance to be pregnant, yet the likes of this person, can abuse it then kill her babys because she simply doesnt want then, it is disgusting.
As one of those women who have been desperate to be pregnant I would not wish it on anyone, no matter what they had done.
I couldn't do what she has done, but then, I don't have to live in her head.
I wouldn't believe one word that came out of that woman's mouth. She appears to be the classic "Walter Mitty" type who lives in a little world all of their own. Pretty flimsy excuses for terminating the pregnancies in my opinion. Anyone can make a mistake, and there will be occasions when there is a valid reason for termination, yet it beggars belief that it needs more than ONE potential life being ended for the lesson to have been learned.
Childbirth is turning into the new consumerism. Check out this sales patter from EasyPreg:-
"Hey, want a kiddie? Having trouble conceiving? We can help you have one in any colour!! Don't have a man in the relationship? No problem we can help with that too but remember, YOU have to choose which one is Mummy!! Not having trouble conceiving but simply changed your mind? No worries, we have a team ready to soothe that wrinkle out!! Simply call our advisors on one of these numbers:-
0845-N-O-S-C-R-U-P-L-E-S
0845-C-A-N-T-S-A-Y-N-A-E
Job Seekers Allowance means you are unemployed but willing and able to work. If people find themselves in that situation they deserve all the help they can get to get back to work.
IMHO people here (and elsewhere) have complained about others living a lifestyle where they choose to live off benefits to raise their children and the public foots the bill, rather than the number of children.
i have seen loads of arguements where people have stated that unemployed folk with loads of kids should have stopped a 1 becaue they cant afford it. I should have pointed out that i didnt JUST mean this boards.
I have even seen the "steralise them" arguement being used in one case.
It wasnt relevant to this debate, just an honest answer to the question asked previosuly, i certainly wasnt trying to point any fingers or even claim it as my own opinion.
porshiepoo
17-Jul-08, 09:13
You go on here about it being this woman's choice to have seven abortions. What choice did the seven babies have? None.
'The reason why I had so many abortions is that I didn't want to bring a child into the world unless my situation was perfect - but it never was.
'With each termination I felt it was my responsibility to get on with my own life and forget about it. After each one I just blanked out the emotions and never thought about it. I felt no remorse at all.'
Does this sound like a statement from a woman who has regrets about what she has done? Her whole story is about me, me, me. Never once did she consider that there were two people in her "not so perfect situation."
You are right. Nobody is perfect. We have all made mistakes, and I'd say the majority of us have learned from them. Obviously this woman didn't.
OMG. The fact of the matter is, is that Abortion is legal and while it is legal women have a right to terminate a pregnancy.
Who speaks for the "Silent Scream" of the aborted feotus? Nobody!
Does that make termination the wrong decision? Not necessarily so.
For all your complaints about the rights of the terminated child do you honestly believe that this woman would make a fit mother anyway???? I doubt you do, so is your problem actually with your own morals regarding Abortion rather than the actual 'rights' of the child?
I am not disputing that this woman has made dreadful decisions and choices in her life, she's made 7 decisions that thankfully I have never been faced with making.
Yes, her decisions may appear to be selfish but I honestly believe she needs serious counselling for her past experiences and no matter what y'all say getting that help can be extremely difficult. She went back to the same clinic and doctor time after time and was never made to endure more than the most basic of questioning, surely someone could see that there's a problem?
As I said before, Abortion is legal and as yet there is no Law regulating how many a woman can have. For some peoples values 1 would be too many, for others it obviously doesn't seem to matter, but who is right and who is wrong? Is it your morals - the preservation of a life even though it's being bought into the world by an unstable mother? Or mine - the preservation of a childs right to be born into a loving, caring family wherever possible?
There is no right or wrong, just opinion.
I say, old bean, what bizarre logic! Do I take it that if someone nicks your wallet, you'll reason that due to your having kicked a cat when you were a bairn, you're in no position to complain?Melancholy Man: I suspect you know that that is not what I am saying.
I'm simply stating that it is easy to see the splinter in someone elses eye while ignoring the log in your own.
I know nothing about this woman - but is it possible that she may have learning difficulties? Sterilizing her would then be 'against her human rights' but abortion it seems, at least in law, is not against any one's human rights.
danc1ngwitch
17-Jul-08, 18:31
I don't like abortions, i don't agree with them. So many couples wanting a child to love and to have a family complete, why don't they change the law and make these woman have the children under supervision and allow people who really want to set up and complete a family do so, by allowing them to adopt. IMHO.
teenybash
17-Jul-08, 18:33
I don't like abortions, i don't agree with them. So many couples wanting a child to love and to have a family complete, why don't they change the law and make these woman have the children under supervision and allow people who really want to set up and complete a family do so, by allowing them to adopt. IMHO.
So wise are your words..............
I don't like abortions, i don't agree with them. So many couples wanting a child to love and to have a family complete, why don't they change the law and make these woman have the children under supervision and allow people who really want to set up and complete a family do so, by allowing them to adopt. IMHO.
What a stupid idea, there are already enough kids available for adoption for folk who want them. Women who cant have kids but desperatly want a new born baby need to stop being so selfish and realise that there a loads of older children who need homes.
DeHaviLand
17-Jul-08, 19:12
What a stupid idea, there are already enough kids available for adoption for folk who want them. Women who cant have kids but desperatly want a new born baby need to stop being so selfish and realise that there a loads of older children who need homes.
Its not just the number of kids that is a limiting factor in adoption you know. Although you speak as if you know it all, you plainly dont.[disgust]
danc1ngwitch
24-Jul-08, 18:57
What a stupid idea, there are already enough kids available for adoption for folk who want them. Women who cant have kids but desperatly want a new born baby need to stop being so selfish and realise that there a loads of older children who need homes.
Selfish? Ahhhhh! your onto something now, yes they are selfish for yearning for the most natural of things. Natural for some ( undeserving ) impossible for others, and for me well i have been blessed, my heart goes out to the couples and singles alike who cannot have children. Selfish my :eek:
What a stupid idea, there are already enough kids available for adoption for folk who want them. Women who cant have kids but desperatly want a new born baby need to stop being so selfish and realise that there a loads of older children who need homes.
I don't think it's fair to call a woman selfish, just because she is desperate for a baby. I agree with you about the amount of older children who need homes, but can I ask how much research you have carried out regarding adoption?
I'm not having a go at you here, but do you know how difficult it is to adopt, and how long it takes? Yes, there are lots of children waiting to be adopted, but trying to actually adopt them is a different story. It can take at least 5 years to adopt 1 child in this country, and quite often longer than that. And that is for an older child, not a baby.
I don't like abortions, i don't agree with them. So many couples wanting a child to love and to have a family complete, why don't they change the law and make these woman have the children under supervision and allow people who really want to set up and complete a family do so, by allowing them to adopt. IMHO.
easier said than done. There are many reasons people have abortions, not just the example in this case.
what about the person who loves her kids she has, but knows taking another life into this world will push the family well past their limits, but also knows that she could never carry a child for 9 months, feeling him/her grow and move inside her, yet stay detached and hand "it" over after birth, easier (thought not at all easy) to terminate an EARLY pregnancy
OR
someone carrying a baby that is a result of rape, every movement and the bith putting her though the trauma of it all over again
OR
my own personal experience, with my youngerst, i was told i was at high risk of my baby having Downs Syndrome. We had tried for a year to fall pregnant with this much longed for baby, and although Downs didnt frighten me, the knowledge that if it was extreme, i could have a baby with a fatal illness due to other factors, did. Abortion was a very real and frightening choice for me at that time, i could NOT put my 6 year old son through losing a baby brother or sister, or a baby i wanted to love, through any pain.
Thankfully, my baby was healthy, and I now have 2 beautiful sons, but not everyone has it so easy.
Abortion, IMHO, is not something people should take lightly, but it is also a thing a lot of people cant understand if they have never had to face it.
easier said than done. There are many reasons people have abortions, not just the example in this case.
what about the person who loves her kids she has, but knows taking another life into this world will push the family well past their limits, but also knows that she could never carry a child for 9 months, feeling him/her grow and move inside her, yet stay detached and hand "it" over after birth, easier (thought not at all easy) to terminate an EARLY pregnancy
OR
someone carrying a baby that is a result of rape, every movement and the bith putting her though the trauma of it all over again
OR
my own personal experience, with my youngerst, i was told i was at high risk of my baby having Downs Syndrome. We had tried for a year to fall pregnant with this much longed for baby, and although Downs didnt frighten me, the knowledge that if it was extreme, i could have a baby with a fatal illness due to other factors, did. Abortion was a very real and frightening choice for me at that time, i could NOT put my 6 year old son through losing a baby brother or sister, or a baby i wanted to love, through any pain.
Thankfully, my baby was healthy, and I now have 2 beautiful sons, but not everyone has it so easy.
Abortion, IMHO, is not something people should take lightly, but it is also a thing a lot of people cant understand if they have never had to face it.
yeah you have a very good point there i was dicussing this thread earlier and was not going to write anything on it as like you said people do it for several different reasons me myself would be the first one you said i myself have only had one abortion and it was because i am young i have 2 kids already and i knew very well that i could not take care of another one but if i had said i would do adoption i would of changed my mind i dont think i would of been able to part with the child then i would end up with my kids taken off me because i couldnt cope and i would of been severely depressed so my point is that people do have them for several reasons for having abortions
yeah you have a very good point there i was dicussing this thread earlier and was not going to write anything on it as like you said people do it for several different reasons me myself would be the first one you said i myself have only had one abortion and it was because i am young i have 2 kids already and i knew very well that i could not take care of another one but if i had said i would do adoption i would of changed my mind i dont think i would of been able to part with the child then i would end up with my kids taken off me because i couldnt cope and i would of been severely depressed so my point is that people do have them for several reasons for having abortions
Im sorry Padfoot, that couldnt have been easy for you, but this is exactly WHY we should never judge someone else. Until you walk a mile in someone elses shoes and all that!!
yip i definately have to agree with you there
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