View Full Version : Gurkha lose their pension battle.
So the tenacious Gurkha's lost their battle to win the right to a pension equal that to British soldiers, thankfully and obviously they are going to appeal but I dont hold out much hope for them. Yes they won the right to live in the UK but I think when its down to money the government will not budge !
The government is quick to promote human rights, equality etc maybe they should think about that when these lads are asking to be treated the same as another other member of the armed forces.
How anyone one in power can look these lads in the eye is beyond me :confused
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7485814.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7485050.stm
That's the point of stabbing someone in the back - you don't need to look them in the face...
percy toboggan
04-Jul-08, 23:31
It would be patently ridiculous to grant these men pensions which, in their own country would elevate them to the higher echelons of society.
To suggest this government promotes 'equality' when the gap between rich and poor has seldom been wider in a hundred years is a little naive Solus.
Most people in power would have to bend down a bit to look these lads in the eye - sorry, couldn't resist...and we mustn't forget Hazel Blears.
I admire Gurkha's and those that decide to live here must be given an adequate pension...those back home should be paid relative to local circumstance. Any other method would be a distortion, and could prove very divisive in their own society.
I'm no expert on the matter though , and it's easy to let emotion sway ones feelings.
It would be patently ridiculous to grant these men pensions which, in their own country would elevate them to the higher echelons of society.
They fought the same as any other UK soldier. They bled the same as any other UK soldier. They probably suffered the prejudicial ignorance of many (like yourself, I'll add). They did the same job and are therefore ENTITLED to the same benefit. These are people whoi had very hard lives. Not the use and throw away scraps or the canon fodder the army like/d to treat them as.
I say give them their pension. Like firefighters it will then mean they are unable to claim benefits. I persume they have been contributing 11.5 % of their wage over the years-no?
I am not sure on that David, but i would presume so,
Percy, so having a pension promotes them to higher echelons of society ? well even getting less of a pension will do this for them, earning a wage from the army is enough to do that. They have proven themselves on the battlefield time and time again and should not be treated any different to our lads once they retire.
I am not sure on that David, but i would presume so,
Percy, so having a pension promotes them to higher echelons of society ? well even getting less of a pension will do this for them, earning a wage from the army is enough to do that. They have proven themselves on the battlefield time and time again and should not be treated any different to our lads once they retire.
As have many peeps from different walks of life. Like I said give them their pensions, they will soon realise they would be better off in this country at least, being on benefits. As far as I am aware service personnel pay nowt towards their pension pot, unlike others who have proved themselves on the battleground time and time again. We should be looking after our own folks rather than paying for retired mercanarys. This controversial enough for you Percy?
percy toboggan
05-Jul-08, 14:16
These are people whoi had very hard lives....
I know, perhaps that's why many of them joined the Regiment in the first place, rather than an overwhelming sense of allegiance towards Britain and our Sovereign.
percy toboggan
05-Jul-08, 14:19
We should be looking after our own folks rather than paying for retired mercanarys. This controversial enough for you Percy?
On the contrary David, I agree with you.
I'm sorry you're still unhappy with your pension/benefit dilemma.
Last week I thought I myself might perhaps soon be claiming 'Jobseekers Allowance' to which I'd be fully entitled. Thankfully the threat has diminished.
It would be patently ridiculous to grant these men pensions which, in their own country would elevate them to the higher echelons of society.
To suggest this government promotes 'equality' when the gap between rich and poor has seldom been wider in a hundred years is a little naive Solus.
Most people in power would have to bend down a bit to look these lads in the eye - sorry, couldn't resist...and we mustn't forget Hazel Blears.
I admire Gurkha's and those that decide to live here must be given an adequate pension...those back home should be paid relative to local circumstance. Any other method would be a distortion, and could prove very divisive in their own society.
I'm no expert on the matter though , and it's easy to let emotion sway ones feelings.
Totally disagree with you the Gurkha's should get the same pension as other soldier regardless of were the live they do the exact same job as a uk soldier.
And its terrible how they are given a crap pension considering the Gurkha's have a very high reputation in the british army
bobandag16
05-Jul-08, 15:40
It would be patently ridiculous to grant these men pensions which, in their own country would elevate them to the higher echelons of society.
To suggest this government promotes 'equality' when the gap between rich and poor has seldom been wider in a hundred years is a little naive Solus.
Most people in power would have to bend down a bit to look these lads in the eye - sorry, couldn't resist...and we mustn't forget Hazel Blears.
I admire Gurkha's and those that decide to live here must be given an adequate pension...those back home should be paid relative to local circumstance. Any other method would be a distortion, and could prove very divisive in their own society.
I'm no expert on the matter though , and it's easy to let emotion sway ones feelings.
has a veteran at the age of 80 my pension was increase by 25 p igave this government 50 years of service and payed into a pension scheme which will disqualify me for many benefits these men must be better treated but bhave no hope when we do not look after our own.
David: "As far as I am aware service personnel pay nowt towards their pension pot, unlike others who have proved themselves on the battleground time and time again"
Bit confused here, who are the 'others' who have proved themselves....?
David: "As far as I am aware service personnel pay nowt towards their pension pot, unlike others who have proved themselves on the battleground time and time again"
Bit confused here, who are the 'others' who have proved themselves....?
I am confused also, all servicemen pay taxes, National Insurance, and even council tax when they are living in Barracks whilst in the UK, where do they pay nowt? Over a hundred of them have paid with their lives in Afganistan so far.
reading these comments i am amazed. We have a regiment of soldiers who have been under british govern since 1814 when the Gorkha(as it was spelt then) had there own battle against British eastern India army, and the british army being so impressed by them that they were recruited under british rule.
They have done this without predjudice, without question and with loyalty that you will probaqbly not get from most british soldiers themselves..
Based in HongKong until 1997 when the British gave china back, they were then brought back to Britain,by the MOD, being based in Surrey i believe(may be wrong), so why should they not recieve the same entitlement as any other serving soldier of the british army.
As mentioned before in past posts, i had the fortune of living in Nepal, my father being military, on a camp in Dharan, where it was also Gurkha's,
they are honest loyal people and give all they can for the British and i think it is high time that they are recognised for this...
percy toboggan
05-Jul-08, 17:14
has a veteran at the age of 80 my pension was increase by 25 p igave this government 50 years of service and payed into a pension scheme which will disqualify me for many benefits these men must be better treated but bhave no hope when we do not look after our own.
Most pensioners in Britain do reasonably well.
You've lived a grand age and good luck to you.
I look forward to a retirement when I can live cheaply,
retain internet access, transport and ale, and at last have as much time as I like to do nowt.
percy toboggan
05-Jul-08, 17:16
David: "As far as I am aware service personnel pay nowt towards their pension pot, unlike others who have proved themselves on the battleground time and time again"
Bit confused here, who are the 'others' who have proved themselves....?
He'll be meaning fire - 'fighters'
They battle with blazes.
Some of the time.
A noble breed,
but no more deserving for all that than any other group of workers.
Lord Flasheart
05-Jul-08, 18:43
David,
You might want to recall who covers for the Firemen when they go on strike mate, and I was one of those lads many moons ago. The Forces can be Firemen but a Fireman cant cover for a Serviceman. I have no doubt it takes courage to be a Fireman but they are paid a lot better at the end of the day. If you really want to compare being a fireman to the job of a squaddie today I would love to see you address 2 Para right now and tell them that the two jobs are comparable. And as for calling Gurkhas "retired mercenarys" would you tell them that to their face ??, they are some of the scariest people you will meet when it suits them. Trust me, you want to be on the right side of them.
As for the Gurkhas, in an age when we can pay Immigrants child benefit for children not even in the United Kingdom why cant we look after them ??, they have always served us well and I think are the finest soldiers in the world. They have demonstrated their courage time and time again. Its just a sign of this morally bankrupt country that they are not treated with the respect they deserve. They aslo have bundles of self respect and this is probably why they havent gone all PC and played the "race card". They dont know how you see, they have too much respect for themselves and us.
David,
You might want to recall who covers for the Firemen when they go on strike mate, and I was one of those lads many moons ago. The Forces can be Firemen but a Fireman cant cover for a Serviceman. I have no doubt it takes courage to be a Fireman but they are paid a lot better at the end of the day. If you really want to compare being a fireman to the job of a squaddie today I would love to see you address 2 Para right now and tell them that the two jobs are comparable.
As for the Gurkhas, in an age when we can pay Immigrants child benefit for children not even in the United Kingdom why cant we look after them ??, they have always served us well and I think are the finest soldiers in the world. They have demonstrated their courage time and time again. Its just a sign of this morally bankrupt country that they are not treated with the respect they deserve. They aslo have bundles of self respect and this is probably why they havent gone all PC and played the "race card".
With you 100% on both counts, our servicemen are trained in firefighting, I would like to see a civvy firefighter try to deal with a fire onboard a Nuclear Submarine at sea, or even tied up along side.
And as far as I am concerned the Gurkhas, should be looked after by the UK Government, no matter which one is in power, both the tories and labour are equally as bad in their treatment of these soldiers
David,
You might want to recall who covers for the Firemen when they go on strike mate, and I was one of those lads many moons ago. The Forces can be Firemen but a Fireman cant cover for a Serviceman. I have no doubt it takes courage to be a Fireman but they are paid a lot better at the end of the day. If you really want to compare being a fireman to the job of a squaddie today I would love to see you address 2 Para right now and tell them that the two jobs are comparable. And as for calling Gurkhas "retired mercenarys" would you tell them that to their face ??, they are some of the scariest people you will meet when it suits them. Trust me, you want to be on the right side of them.
As for the Gurkhas, in an age when we can pay Immigrants child benefit for children not even in the United Kingdom why cant we look after them ??, they have always served us well and I think are the finest soldiers in the world. They have demonstrated their courage time and time again. Its just a sign of this morally bankrupt country that they are not treated with the respect they deserve. They aslo have bundles of self respect and this is probably why they havent gone all PC and played the "race card". They dont know how you see, they have too much respect for themselves and us.
Like I said before give them the pensions they so rightly deserve. If they are in this country it will prevent them claiming benefits. Mmm... so I have got to be afraid of expressing my opinion to the Ghurkas or 2 para? A bit like the democracy handed out by Mugabe and his henchmen. Why can,t a fireman cover for a serviceman? Having been both I can say I was in more danger in the Fire Service than in my 7 years in the forces.
He'll be meaning fire - 'fighters'
They battle with blazes.
Some of the time.
A noble breed,
but no more deserving for all that than any other group of workers.
Percy at last we agree on something!
Why can,t a fireman cover for a serviceman? Having been both I can say I was in more danger in the Fire Service than in my 7 years in the forces.
Exactly what we are saying, you were a trained serviceman, who could/can do a firemans job, not the otherway around.
Exactly what we are saying, you were a trained serviceman, who could/can do a firemans job, not the otherway around.
Exactly what you are saying. This thread is about the Ghurkas pension- not about the individual merits of various jobs. I agree wholeheartedly that they should be given a pension as it will prevent them claiming benefits if they live in this country.
Exactly what you are saying. This thread is about the Ghurkas pension- not about the individual merits of various jobs. I agree wholeheartedly that they should be given a pension as it will prevent them claiming benefits if they live in this country.
Why?, I am a pensioner, I get benefits, why should the Gurkhas be any different and get benefits, they fought for our government. And why should they no be allowed to stay here if they wish, and then they can claim all the benefits going to them.
Why?, I am a pensioner, I get benefits, why should the Gurkhas be any different and get benefits, they fought for our government. And why should they no be allowed to stay here if they wish, and then they can claim all the benefits going to them.
Point being, if they are in receipt of a pension then if this takes them over the Jobseekers Allowance then they will get Zip. This is regardless of how many battles they were in. This aplies equally across the board to other uk nationals.
Lord Flasheart
05-Jul-08, 20:28
Like I said before give them the pensions they so rightly deserve. If they are in this country it will prevent them claiming benefits. Mmm... so I have got to be afraid of expressing my opinion to the Ghurkas or 2 para? A bit like the democracy handed out by Mugabe and his henchmen. Why can,t a fireman cover for a serviceman? Having been both I can say I was in more danger in the Fire Service than in my 7 years in the forces.
Think your reading me wrong there.
Like I said it takes courage to be a fireman, however where is the sense of responsibility when they go on strike and people like me had to cover for them while not as well equipped and on one occasion being jeered for it. I was in as much danger as the regular Firemen because they didnt want to do their job and I had to. I dont see any Firemen heading to Iraq and Afghanistan to fight the Taliban as FAC's, Infantry, Sappers etc because they simply cant do it. So forgive me if I hold the Gurkhas in higher regard, having seen them in action I think they are worth as much as any other serviceman (which was the point of the thread) frankly I am dissapointed that an ex serviceman would refer to them as mercenarys.
I respect Firemen, its a tough job but at the end of the day you chose to do it. If you dont like it then quit. The point of the thread was whether the Gurkhas deserve the same treatment as any other serviceman and I think they do. The financial situation of Firemen is a whole other subject, you chose to compare the two and I responded.
Point being, if they are in receipt of a pension then if this takes them over the Jobseekers Allowance then they will get Zip. This is regardless of how many battles they were in. This aplies equally across the board to other uk nationals.
Not sure what you're talking about here. You CANNOT claim Jobseekers Allowance unless you are UNDER State Pension age.
Think your reading me wrong there.
Like I said it takes courage to be a fireman, however where is the sense of responsibility when they go on strike and people like me had to cover for them while not as well equipped and on one occasion being jeered for it. I was in as much danger as the regular Firemen because they didnt want to do their job and I had to. I dont see any Firemen heading to Iraq and Afghanistan to fight the Taliban as FAC's, Infantry, Sappers etc because they simply cant do it. So forgive me if I hold the Gurkhas in higher regard, having seen them in action I think they are worth as much as any other serviceman (which was the point of the thread) frankly I am dissapointed that an ex serviceman would refer to them as mercenarys.
I respect Firemen, its a tough job but at the end of the day you chose to do it. If you dont like it then quit. The point of the thread was whether the Gurkhas deserve the same treatment as any other serviceman and I think they do. The financial situation of Firemen is a whole other subject, you chose to compare the two and I responded.
We appear to be off thread here. The question is should the Ghurkas get a pension?, to which I have agreed as long as they accept the fact that if their pension takes them over the Jobseekers allowance then they are entitled to a big fat zero if they choose to live here. Perhaps you should start a new thread on the differences/merits of other jobs?
Not sure what you're talking about here. You CANNOT claim Jobseekers Allowance unless you are UNDER State Pension age.
Not true. I was invited to apply for this a few years ago until they discovered I had a pension. This was when I was 35 years old. Maybe the rules have changed since then?
peter macdonald
05-Jul-08, 20:46
So you saying people like these
http://www.thekhukurihouse.com/Content/VCHolders.php
should be treated the same as some eejit that only looks for job seekers allowance in the hope he wont get a job? and dont tell me that does not happen
PM
So you saying people like these
http://www.thekhukurihouse.com/Content/VCHolders.php
should be treated the same as some eejit that only looks for job seekers allowance in the hope he wont get a job? and dont tell me that does not happen
PM
No I am not saying that at all. Unfortunately the elected government thinks so and treats all individuals the same regardless of their merits/achievments in a past life.
Lord Flasheart
05-Jul-08, 21:15
We appear to be off thread here. The question is should the Ghurkas get a pension?, to which I have agreed as long as they accept the fact that if their pension takes them over the Jobseekers allowance then they are entitled to a big fat zero if they choose to live here. Perhaps you should start a new thread on the differences/merits of other jobs?
Why ??, you were the one comparing other people and prattling on about "Battlegrounds", you do it.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about this. If the Gurkhas have served and earned the right to a pension that any other serviceman or woman would get then they should get it in my eyes .. simple as that. You seem to be saying "Yes you've served, have your pension but you aint getting anymore because I dont", I can see where your coming from to be honest, I just dont agree. Because a Gurkha is the last type of person to be a benefit sponge !!
As I understand it if you have paid enough contributions to get Contribution based JSA then you get it, simple as that. The Income based JSA is assesed on your income and any pension will be taken into account.
So wheres the problem ??
David,
You might want to recall who covers for the Firemen when they go on strike mate, and I was one of those lads many moons ago. The Forces can be Firemen but a Fireman cant cover for a Serviceman. I have no doubt it takes courage to be a Fireman but they are paid a lot better at the end of the day. If you really want to compare being a fireman to the job of a squaddie today I would love to see you address 2 Para right now and tell them that the two jobs are comparable. And as for calling Gurkhas "retired mercenarys" would you tell them that to their face ??, they are some of the scariest people you will meet when it suits them. Trust me, you want to be on the right side of them.
As for the Gurkhas, in an age when we can pay Immigrants child benefit for children not even in the United Kingdom why cant we look after them ??, they have always served us well and I think are the finest soldiers in the world. They have demonstrated their courage time and time again. Its just a sign of this morally bankrupt country that they are not treated with the respect they deserve. They aslo have bundles of self respect and this is probably why they havent gone all PC and played the "race card". They dont know how you see, they have too much respect for themselves and us.The Scots were a major catalyst in the Ghurkas choosing to fight alongside the British army. They saw in us a warrior race very like themselves and every bit as fierce on the battlefield.
Not true. I was invited to apply for this a few years ago until they discovered I had a pension. This was when I was 35 years old. Maybe the rules have changed since then?
Obviously, if you are getting a pension at 35, there must be special circumstances. The point I am making is that you can't have both. Job Seekers Allowance has other conditions attached before you can claim it.
For State Pensions there are various allowances that make up what is called the "applicable amount". Should a person getting a pension be getting less than that figure, they will be entitled to Pension Credit to bring them up to the relevant figure. People with disabilities can claim Disability Living Allowance or Attendance Allowance (depending on age), if they need help getting around and/or with personal care. Some benefits overlap and you can't simply claim them all. Entitlement to certain benefits can add premiums to the applicable amount figure on other benefits. It is worth checking with the CAB to see how you would stand when considering applying for Benefits.
Why ??, you were the one comparing other people and prattling on about "Battlegrounds", you do it.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about this. If the Gurkhas have served and earned the right to a pension that any other serviceman or woman would get then they should get it in my eyes .. simple as that. You seem to be saying "Yes you've served, have your pension but you aint getting anymore because I dont", I can see where your coming from to be honest, I just dont agree. Because a Gurkha is the last type of person to be a benefit sponge !!
As I understand it if you have paid enough contributions to get Contribution based JSA then you get it, simple as that. The Income based JSA is assesed on your income and any pension will be taken into account.
So wheres the problem ??
So why should they get anymore than me or you? BTW I am no benefit sponge either. The facts are, if you have a pension of say a £100 per week (paid for by your monthly contribuitions) you will get absolutely zero from the state even if you have paid into it for years.
percy toboggan
05-Jul-08, 23:27
The Scots were a major catalyst in the Ghurkas choosing to fight alongside the British army. They saw in us a warrior race very like themselves and every bit as fierce on the battlefield.
Did they go on to be a bit more successful though?
Did they go on to be a bit more successful though?The British army as a whole, the Scots or the Ghurkas?
The facts are, if you have a pension of say a £100 per week (paid for by your monthly contribuitions) you will get absolutely zero from the state even if you have paid into it for years.
That statement is incorrect, the current guaranteed amount for a person over 60 is £124.05 per week, If you or your partner is over 65 you can have up to £174 a week coming in and still qualify for additional savings pension credit. See here:-
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/PensionsAndRetirement/StatePension/DG_10018692
Anything' what has not served under the colours' (civvies) shut your traps,this is a military contretempts.
So you should be serviced' awarded' recognised' from your ethnic background-never mind laying down your life an limb-it all comes down to what your dad's background is-was!
Sorry pal you should have been brought up in surrey!!!
To proponents of the origional post ---go away an boil your heads. More comment is not worthy.
Anything' what has not served under the colours' (civvies) shut your traps,this is a military contretempts.
So you should be serviced' awarded' recognised' from your ethnic background-never mind laying down your life an limb-it all comes down to what your dad's background is-was!
Sorry pal you should have been brought up in surrey!!!
To proponents of the origional post ---go away an boil your heads. More comment is not worthy.
I wish I understood .....I really do. I guess I better go boil my head to see if it clarify's anything...... anyone for some "tete" tea?
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.