View Full Version : New bypass nearing completion/Helmsdale-Navidale road
the_count
23-Jun-08, 15:11
For those that drive through to Helmsdale, the Navadale bypass is just about finished and should be opening soon, they even have the road markings done. It should make the trip down to Helmsdale much shorter
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll318/countlicker/landscape/P1050449.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll318/countlicker/landscape/P1050456.jpg
I don't know why but I always get very excited when I see new roads opening. :lol: Must be sad :Razz
changilass
23-Jun-08, 16:00
lol me too rf10, hope its open in time for my next Inverness trip next month.
speedo215
23-Jun-08, 17:34
bit strange though because there is no overtaking lane so that means if you are coming north you could still get stuck behind a lorry or something similar
George Brims
23-Jun-08, 19:02
bit strange though because there is no overtaking lane so that means if you are coming north you could still get stuck behind a lorry or something similar
It's high time the UK adopted what they have in the US for roads like this that are narrow and twisty, and have a mix of slow-moving heavy things (I'm sure truck drivers would love to go faster if they only could or wouldn't drain the tank doing so) and lighter faster vehicles. They have what are called "turnouts". In the UK they would be called "lay-bys" but their purpose is not somewhere to stop, but somewhere to pull in to let people past you. The best laid out ones are big enough that you can pull aside, let two or three vehicles past you, and pop back out, without coming to a stop. Most importantly they are a lot cheaper to implement than a passing lane, though they still have those on long gradients. On the twistier roads they tend to just be a wide bit on the outside of a bend. The whole idea falls apart if people don't pull in, but guess what, people do (mostly). You soon learn it's easier to just jog aside and let 2 or 3 people past every now and again, than have a tail of 25 people honking behind you.
Of course the two problems I see with this in the Highlands would be (1) Mr and Mrs Caravan trundling by 20 of them and not pulling in and (2) Mr and Mrs Caravan parked in one, with the picnic table and folding chairs out, taking tea. Just so this post is not all about my annoyance at the caravan set [lol], I've seen vehicles of all descriptions offending in the former manner (but the caravanners are the worst!) :mad:
It's high time the UK adopted what they have in the US for roads like this that are narrow and twisty, and have a mix of slow-moving heavy things (I'm sure truck drivers would love to go faster if they only could or wouldn't drain the tank doing so) and lighter faster vehicles. They have what are called "turnouts". In the UK they would be called "lay-bys" but their purpose is not somewhere to stop, but somewhere to pull in to let people past you. The best laid out ones are big enough that you can pull aside, let two or three vehicles past you, and pop back out, without coming to a stop. Most importantly they are a lot cheaper to implement than a passing lane, though they still have those on long gradients. On the twistier roads they tend to just be a wide bit on the outside of a bend. The whole idea falls apart if people don't pull in, but guess what, people do (mostly). You soon learn it's easier to just jog aside and let 2 or 3 people past every now and again, than have a tail of 25 people honking behind you.
Of course the two problems I see with this in the Highlands would be (1) Mr and Mrs Caravan trundling by 20 of them and not pulling in and (2) Mr and Mrs Caravan parked in one, with the picnic table and folding chairs out, taking tea. Just so this post is not all about my annoyance at the caravan set [lol], I've seen vehicles of all descriptions offending in the former manner (but the caravanners are the worst!) :mad:
The percentage of caravanners who are insensitive to other road users is no greater than the number of idiots driving cars ;
Often been held up for tens of mles by slow moving cars
Often been cut up by cars overtaking in slow places and cutting in front
often had cars drivings so lose up your you know what that you cannot see them in the mirror and so cannot let them past
often had to brake fiercely because a car was driving straight at me from the opposite direction
Often had all this happening when in my car on its own and other drivers have done all those stupid things.
And remember caravanners pay the same road tax as you but also pay more to the government through increased fuel tax
and remember you standard of living and local facilities may depend on the number of caravan holidaymakers we attract to Caithness
And what sort of driver are you - maybe you are the one at fault - most people who take your attitude are actually the very ones who are impatient and cause accidents
Just get out and about in Thurso and see where our car drivers park, how they behave at traffic lights and the general lack of consideration for other road users such as pedestrians and cyclists - when I have been out on the road I have never been knocked over by a caravan but I have been in the ditch they times under my bike due to silly drivers.
the_count
23-Jun-08, 19:40
The percentage of caravanners who are insensitive to other road users is no greater than the number of idiots driving cars ;
Often been held up for tens of mles by slow moving cars
Often been cut up by cars overtaking in slow places and cutting in front
often had cars drivings so lose up your you know what that you cannot see them in the mirror and so cannot let them past
often had to brake fiercely because a car was driving straight at me from the opposite direction
Often had all this happening when in my car on its own and other drivers have done all those stupid things.
And remember caravanners pay the same road tax as you but also pay more to the government through increased fuel tax
and remember you standard of living and local facilities may depend on the number of caravan holidaymakers we attract to Caithness
And what sort of driver are you - maybe you are the one at fault - most people who take your attitude are actually the very ones who are impatient and cause accidents
Just get out and about in Thurso and see where our car drivers park, how they behave at traffic lights and the general lack of consideration for other road users such as pedestrians and cyclists - when I have been out on the road I have never been knocked over by a caravan but I have been in the ditch they times under my bike due to silly drivers.
and then while your at it go and see how considerately they park in wick ermmmm try outside poultney town chemists for starters lol its nothing to see parked 3 abreast on both sides of the road lol :lol:
bit strange though because there is no overtaking lane so that means if you are coming north you could still get stuck behind a lorry or something similar
Well, it will give you time to appreciate the scenery ;)
George Brims
23-Jun-08, 20:27
I seem to have hit a nerve...
The percentage of caravanners who are insensitive to other road users is no greater than the number of idiots driving cars ;
Well I never said it was. I simply said caravanners (in my personal experience I should have said) are the worst at not pulling over to let other drivers past. I also said I have seen such inconsiderate behaviour from drivers of every shape and size of vehicle. I have been on a caravan holiday once, and I know you can't always go fast enough for the impatient sod behind, but I also know it isn't that much of a bother to pull over now and again.
If we're talking percentages though, here's a statistic. On a long car trip in the 1980s, my colleagues and I noticed there were a lot of caravans on the M6. At a service station we got talking to one of the caravanners and discovered there was a gathering of some sort of the Caravan Club. I would assume that members of the CC would be the more responsible caravanners. However for the next hour my passengers noted how many of them were equipped with either the periscope style mirror that looks back through the caravan, or extended wing mirrors to allow them to see back past the caravan. Out of a sample of over 150 caravans, less than 30% were equipped to see behind them. This doesn't say much for their willingness not to hold up other drivers.
Often been held up for tens of mles by slow moving cars
Often been cut up by cars overtaking in slow places and cutting in front
often had cars drivings so lose up your you know what that you cannot see them in the mirror and so cannot let them past
often had to brake fiercely because a car was driving straight at me from the opposite direction
Often had all this happening when in my car on its own and other drivers have done all those stupid things.
Like I said, all shapes and sizes.
And remember caravanners pay the same road tax as you but also pay more to the government through increased fuel tax
Well not me, I'm not in Caithness any more, but I get your point. However the caravanner chooses to haul more stuff around the roads in order to have his/her chosen type of holiday. Unfortunately that is going to cost more (and more and more...)
and remember you standard of living and local facilities may depend on the number of caravan holidaymakers we attract to Caithness
Again, not any more, but I have never seen a really large number of caravans in Caithness - maybe more should be done to attract them? Maybe it's the wind scares them off?
And what sort of driver are you - maybe you are the one at fault - most people who take your attitude are actually the very ones who are impatient and cause accidents
I'm mostly a patient driver, and if you really want to hear me rant, forget caravans, it's the aggressive tailgaters who really get my goat! Part of the reason for my earlier suggestion about turnouts is I drive quite often on a very steep and winding road (go to southern California on Google maps and find Highway 18 in San Bernardino County) in a vehicle that like myself isn't as young and spry as it once was, so it's very often me that is holding people up. And I pull out of the way, and people give me a friendly wave and scoot on past.
Just get out and about in Thurso and see where our car drivers park, how they behave at traffic lights and the general lack of consideration for other road users such as pedestrians and cyclists - when I have been out on the road I have never been knocked over by a caravan but I have been in the ditch they times under my bike due to silly drivers.
Aha! Another of my pet hates - people who are inconsiderate to cyclists. Before I fled Thatcher's Britain I used to cycle 3,500+ miles a year (not a typo, one year I topped 5,000) and I have a long list of horror stories about that!
I don't know why but I always get very excited when I see new roads opening. :lol: Must be sad :Razz
I'm always glad when I see roads being coned off-I work for an asphalt contractor.:D
the_count
23-Jun-08, 23:41
I'm always glad when I see roads being coned off-I work for an asphalt contractor.:D
you cynic joxville lol :lol:
Been away in my caravan. No problems apart from inconsiderate motorists cutting across my bows and overtaking in the most ridiculous places, no one tooted the horn at me but I did at some. Let folk pass every chance I got though most did not even acknowledge my generosity in slowing down, changing gear, losing revs and expending my expensive fuel just to let them speed off at 80 MPH. No sign of George Brims - he must have been on a different crusade!
I really appreciate all the new bits of road up north - I used to do Inverness to Thurso for many years and now Perth to Thurso and my journey has fairly changed over the years - for the better.
Roads lookin great. Its about time, anything to get away from twisty slow roads.
I do find that lorry drivers have more concern than those that choose to pull a shed behind them.
Most lorries will indicate and let cars pass, whereas Mr & mrs shed puller are too busy looking at the scenery to notice that as there is a big queue behind them.
They always seem to forget to pull over and let traffic through, which most lorries do.
I know not all shed pullers are like that it just seems to be there always in front of me ;)
cattach: "and remember you standard of living and local facilities may depend on the number of caravan holidaymakers we attract to Caithness"
Eh? when we caravanned (long, long ago) we took most of our food with us, only facilities we used were the sites, so really very little going into the local economy.
Each year we see the Dutch convoy of some 50 (?) caravans leaving Thurso and going along the A836 to Durness, nose to tail, not a chance in hell of passing 'em
cattach: "and remember you standard of living and local facilities may depend on the number of caravan holidaymakers we attract to Caithness"
Eh? when we caravanned (long, long ago) we took most of our food with us, only facilities we used were the sites, so really very little going into the local economy.
Each year we see the Dutch convoy of some 50 (?) caravans leaving Thurso and going along the A836 to Durness, nose to tail, not a chance in hell of passing 'em
Long, Long Ago - ah well my man times have a change! Many more opportunities to duine out in the visited community. Coffee Shops and restaurants. Lots more places to visit like the Wick Heritage Centre. More money to spend and more places to spend it. I have tented or caravan for almost 40 years and spend a lot more money in the places I visit than I did 'long, long ago'.
The Dutch actually spend a lot in our community. 30 or so Dutch vans and caravans two or three weeks ago in the Thurso site. Shopped in town and refreshed in town. Helped keep local people working in hotels, cafes and shops.
road looks good can't wait.
as useual thread becomes a moanin match
Nice bit of road, we out west go south via Melvich to Helmsdale so 'pop-out' onto the A9 below it, but it certainly will be a great improvement for those heading Thurso/Wick..
George Brims
26-Jun-08, 22:55
Here's another side issue - did they put any laybys on that new stretch to let people stop and enjoy the great view up and down the coast?
DeHaviLand
26-Jun-08, 23:52
There are no good views from that new stretch of road. However there are good views from the last new stretch, and lay-bys have been provided.
It takes about 3 minutes from where the new bit starts to where it ends, lot of money for 3 minutes saved. Not a full on moan just an observation.
the time saved is one thing and isn't that significant but it will get rid of some nasty bends. it would be great if the bends north of dunbeath could be sorted and the bends south of the mound. maybe in my lifetime lets hope. i have heard some people say that it would take the caracter away from the far north roads, whats the views on this.Caracter, safety?
Safety comes first in my opinion. Think of the dangers of driving along those bends on an icy day. Doesn't bear thinking about, so if a straight bit of road can be built to cut out all those bends then it's got to be better for us!
I would rather have seen the money spent on a bridge spanning Berriedale Braes.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aNjp7k0xmJ8
Bobinovich
27-Jun-08, 10:35
Ah but as your wee vid proved, it's not that bad a piece of road UNLESS you're stuck behind slow moving traffic.
Let's see a comparison between it and being stuck behind a caravan or HGV! Your 3m 31s video is likely to go on for significantly longer...
the_count
27-Jun-08, 11:00
anybody know the opening day for this piece of road? :D
the_count
27-Jun-08, 11:08
I would rather have seen the money spent on a bridge spanning Berriedale Braes.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aNjp7k0xmJ8
I have been reliably informed that if the braes were spanned then it would have to be done inland. I think the road through berridale will always be there cos its such a tourist magnet for the area lol :lol:
The one bit of pleasure for me on the long drives north was the road from Inverness north. After endless miles of straight mind numbing roads the twists and turns of the A9 to Wick was a joy to drive.
If it really has just cut 3 mins off a journey that is a waste of money IMO.
I am sure that the standard of road maintenance across the county might have benefitted from the millions poured into this stretch. Something I also used to notice was how much better the roads were in Caithness compared to the south. That has changed now - my last trip north revealed a drop in the quality of the roads...
Safety comes first in my opinion. Think of the dangers of driving along those bends on an icy day. Doesn't bear thinking about, so if a straight bit of road can be built to cut out all those bends then it's got to be better for us!
A straight road does not equate to a safer road - we have plenty of straight roads around us and they are accident blackspots of unbelievable proportions. Straighten out a bend and you increase the speed that road is driven along. Does that stretch have a high incidence of fatal accidents?
The ability to adjust your driving to the weather conditions is paramount in safer driving. Or would you have all the bends taken out of all the roads in case you had a frost?
the_count
27-Jun-08, 11:23
I think the idea of straightening out certain stretches of the A9 is to make it easier for HGV lorries to get up to wick and thurso. I think every wagon driver would love to see certain parts of the A9 straightened, the previously mentioned berridale braes would almost certainly be one of them. I used to part time in the cafe there (now closed) and lost count of the number of times HGV drivers had to back down and try a new line when attacking that hairpin. :lol:
I have been reliably informed that if the braes were spanned then it would have to be done inland. I think the road through berridale will always be there cos its such a tourist magnet for the area lol :lol:
Other country's can span large stretches. For instance the Millau Viaduct in France: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9VXa9Hfeve4
I don't know what the guy is singing in this video since I can't speak French but I assume it may have something to do with the beauty of the area being affected by the bridge: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SMfJTHY-nxg
I think it's more likely the cost/usage ratio that makes it prohibitve. However if it was in the South of Scotland or elsewhere in the UK then it would have been spanned years ago. Personally, the racer in me likes driving through the bends but from a safety point of view for buses and lorries there is a need for it to be straightened out.
the_count
27-Jun-08, 20:07
Other country's can span large stretches. For instance the Millau Viaduct in France: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9VXa9Hfeve4
I don't know what the guy is singing in this video since I can't speak French but I assume it may have something to do with the beauty of the area being affected by the bridge: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SMfJTHY-nxg
I think it's more likely the cost/usage ratio that makes it prohibitve. However if it was in the South of Scotland or elsewhere in the UK then it would have been spanned years ago. Personally, the racer in me likes driving through the bends but from a safety point of view for buses and lorries there is a need for it to be straightened out.
yeah jox maybe so but then they dont have to worry about 90mph winds virtually all year lol:lol:
DeHaviLand
27-Jun-08, 23:38
the time saved is one thing and isn't that significant but it will get rid of some nasty bends. it would be great if the bends north of dunbeath could be sorted and the bends south of the mound. maybe in my lifetime lets hope. i have heard some people say that it would take the caracter away from the far north roads, whats the views on this.Caracter, safety?
Well, as I drive the road, in both directions, 5 days a week, I think I should chip in my tuppence worth here. I say keep the bends. Straight roads are the devils invention, and a recipe for disaster. Twisty sections of road force you to keep your concentration, therefore you drive safer. And as for character, too busy concentrating to notice!
northener
28-Jun-08, 09:00
I agree with Madpict and Dehaviland, removing bends won't make any difference to safety on the road whatsoever.
Idiots will always be idiots. Talk to anyone who drives down the A9 around the Dalwhinnie area. Lovely smooth straight road with overtaking opportunities.
Yet people are having to be scraped off the road at regular intervals by the Emergency Services because of stupid prats hammering past everyone at ridiculous speeds and then trying to barge their way back into a non-existant space.
There is no such thing as a dangerous road - it's a myth, a road is just an inanimate object. Stupidity is what makes a road dangerous.
.
oldmarine
28-Jun-08, 09:59
Looks good. :lol::lol:
new road is now in use. went through on my way home and was quite surprised as i thought it would be quite steep, but infact its not to bad.
aye, was on it myself earlier today, nice bit of road now.
But why oh why are they resurfacing the braes at latheronwheel when the rest of the road surface around there is really bad and the bit they re-laying was fine .
aye, was on it myself earlier today, nice bit of road now.
But why oh why are they resurfacing the braes at latheronwheel when the rest of the road surface around there is really bad and the bit they re-laying was fine .
I agree i was on the new road today to much better.
And yes why the dunbeath road it was one of the best bits and they are ripping it up??? what a waste of money there are plenty more bits that could do with being sorted
have to agree about dunbeath, we were talking about this at work today and i would rather they resurfaced the bit just north of the last bit of road that was done as it has a few pot holes in it.
pulteney person
03-Jul-08, 21:05
We went down to Dunrobin Castle today with some of the children from the Pulteneytown People's Project Summer Club. The new road wasn't open when we went down but was open when we came back. The children were quite excited to be on the new road. It seemed fine but the work persons (at least one was female) were putting cats eyes in so we were going at a snails pace.
have to agree about dunbeath, we were talking about this at work today and i would rather they resurfaced the bit just north of the last bit of road that was done as it has a few pot holes in it.
not just potholes, its the ruts and lack of grippy surface, lots of places have no grip left and its just tarmac. Came up on sunday night in the rain and it was not a pleasant experience for the last 20 miles.
Kevin Milkins
03-Jul-08, 21:19
A freind was telling me that they made a very expensive cockup with the size of the island on the Helmsdale end.
Apparantly artics going south have to crawl around it touching both curbs ,and it has to be replaced.
Tighsonas4
03-Jul-08, 21:27
Looks good. :lol::lol:
its like everything else. its a far cry from the ord of caithness as i knew it in my youth. some bits of the old old road and bridges can be glimpsed yet in the passing tony
Will look forward to seeing it tomorrow on way to Inverness
A freind was telling me that they made a very expensive cockup with the size of the island on the Helmsdale end.
Apparantly artics going south have to crawl around it touching both curbs ,and it has to be replaced.
Just came up from Inverness today and have to agree with you about the roundabout,it does seem a bit large. It doesn`t leave large vehicles much room at all.
The new section of roadway at Navidale is open to traffic @ 30MPH. I drove down the new section today.
fatmaggie9
05-Jul-08, 18:42
Came up today, agree round-about too large.
No North crawler lane so one will either be [evil] stuck behind traffice crawling away from round-about or all trying to overtake at one time! Also sight lines obstructed by soil banks & vegetation where broken centre lines for North traffic do allow overtaking! Why not South I do not understand!
All looks very poor design but maybe - just maybe things will be improved if proper landscaping & road marking is carried out![disgust]
I'm taking the car out for its first 'northern' run tomorrow. Hopefully I'll have no problems with this new stretch of highway.
bit strange though because there is no overtaking lane so that means if you are coming north you could still get stuck behind a lorry or something similar
My brother in law is a lorry driver for Sutherland Bros and that was the first comment he made after travelling along the new route. All that money and not a jot of common sense.
Drove the new bit back and forth on Sunday. Am I imagining things but it seems very narrow to me? Anyway, its nice to cut out all the twiddley bits and it must be fantastic for the people living next to the old bit, peace and quiet at last, but I'm not all that impressed, especially as there is no crawler lane.
telfordstar
08-Jul-08, 15:46
i could be wrong but once you hit the top of the new strech of road heading north is there not a crawler lane there for overtaking
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/9000/img0163sn3.th.jpg (http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0163sn3.jpg)
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/9144/img0165nl1.th.jpg (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0165nl1.jpg)
Orger motorists, what do you think of the new road and roundabout at Helmsdale? And what is the rubber pavement for?
I think the road is too narrow, and far too near to the edge. It could have been made further away from the edge as there is plenty of room. could be tricky when the road is icy or cars are racing each other down the straight road.
What about the roundabout, what is the point of that, or is it to slow motorists down before entering the village? After all you can only go two ways...Inverness or Navidale.
And the pavements, why are they so wide, do they expect loads of people to be walkiing to wick from Helmsdale!!
Orger motorists, what do you think of the new road and roundabout at Helmsdale? And what is the rubber pavement for?
I think the road is too narrow, and far too near to the edge. It could have been made further away from the edge as there is plenty of room. could be tricky when the road is icy or cars are racing each other down the straight road.
What about the roundabout, what is the point of that, or is it to slow motorists down before entering the village? After all you can only go two ways...Inverness or Navidale.
And the pavements, why are they so wide, do they expect loads of people to be walkiing to wick from Helmsdale!!
I wondered about the rubber pavement too:eek:
Wonder if the pavement is finished yet though? I suspect that you are correct in suggesting the roundabout is as much for passive control of speed entering Helmsdale as ease of getting to Navidale. One good thing about the new road is it will make it easier to show kids the magnetic brae! :lol:
DeHaviLand
17-Jul-08, 12:37
I wondered about the rubber pavement too:eek:
Wonder if the pavement is finished yet though? I suspect that you are correct in suggesting the roundabout is as much for passive control of speed entering Helmsdale as ease of getting to Navidale. One good thing about the new road is it will make it easier to show kids the magnetic brae! :lol:
The roundabout is there for two reasons. The first, as has been suggested, is to slow traffic entering the vilage. The second is to facilitate the use of the snow gates. If the gates are closed, you just go all the way around and back the way you came.
The rubber pavement is there because large trucks are liable to run over the pavement at that point. Seems a strange solution to a design problem.
The second is to facilitate the use of the snow gates. If the gates are closed, you just go all the way around and back the way you came.
Now that's a good idea. Been stuck at gates before and it's not fun.
One good thing about the new road is it will make it easier to show kids the magnetic brae! :lol:
What magnetic brae?:confused
One good thing about the new road is it will make it easier to show kids the magnetic brae! :lol:
What magnetic brae?:confused
Could you be thinking of Electric brae in Ayrshire? Thats a seriously weird feeling when you dont move "down" the hill!!
Melancholy Man
17-Jul-08, 18:31
I am the electric monk.
The rubber pavement is there because large trucks are liable to run over the pavement at that point. Seems a strange solution to a design problem.
Could it be problems with space and otherwise having to gouge out much more land? At least it was predicted.
George Brims
17-Jul-08, 22:28
What magnetic brae?:confused
If you take the old road (newly old, that is) towards Navidale (going North), the road at one part goes uphill, but the shape of the hills/skyline whatever will make you sure it's downhill. A trick of the eyes. I've encountered a few more such spots in various parts of the world.
I am the electric monk.
Could it be problems with space and otherwise having to gouge out much more land? At least it was predicted.
If trucks end up on the pavement they will go right over the edge. It is bad planning that the road is right on the edge when there is plenty of room for it not to be. Will the barrier right on the road stop cars going over on an icy road? What if the new road subsides at the edge?
northener
18-Jul-08, 08:39
There's a lot of negative comments on here about the new road.
Someone has already pointed out that there is an overtaking lane further up the hill.
The sightlines aren't that bad, you can see far enough down/up the road to make an intelligent decision on whether to overtake or not.
As for the 'wide' pavements - perhaps someone was considering making the experience of walking or cycling over the Ord a safer experience.......
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