View Full Version : Who cares what colour you are?
Apparently Paul Ince has been appointed Blackburn rovers manager:
Paul Ince becomes the first black English Premier League manager after he is appointed Blackburn Rovers bossIs it relevant that he is black? This statement seems to have an undertone of racism about it in my opinion.
Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/default.stm)
Why should a persons skin tone matter? As long as they are capable of doing the job then neither colour nor creed should enter into it. Promote people on merit-not because it makes good politics. It cheapens the job and cheapens the person that gets it.
Black and white should not be mentioned in this day and age for cripes sake, people are people
and I think if you are mentioning a persons colour it is questionable whether you are racist although someone could just be pushing the fact that coloured people are making it to promonent positions. I think nowadays it shouldn't need to be mentioned it should no longer be a problem it should never have been a problem
brokencross
23-Jun-08, 07:27
The skin colour should be irrelevant, the appointment should be based on his skill and his commitment to become a great manager.
If I was a Blackburn fan I would be less worried about his colour but more concerned by this quote from the Daily Mail........
"But something is gnawing away at the managerial community. Blackburn are accused of doing something wrong because, according to the rules, Ince does not have the necessary coaching qualifications for the job, namely the UEFA Pro-Licence, and he is a long way from getting it. He started but failed to complete his UEFA B licence, the lowest rung on the coaching ladder for ex-professional players.
Ince also started but did not finish a Certificate of Applied Management for Football, a diploma backed by the LMA and PFA intended to complement the coaching badges. He was expected at the Warwick Business School earlier this month to work on this but decided to take a golfing holiday in Portugal instead.
Last week, Ince was due to observe a Welsh FA coaching course in Aberystwyth, a special arrangement to help him back into the qualification process. He did not turn up and has offered no explanation."
If true, it hardly shows a commitment to become the first GREAT black manager.
Other managers have had dispensations but show commitment and a willingness to comply with regs.
Unfortunately history shows good football player does not necessarily equate to good football manager.
quote from the Daily Mail........
"But something is gnawing away at the managerial community. Blackburn are accused of doing something wrong because, according to the rules, Ince does not have the necessary coaching qualifications for the job, namely the UEFA Pro-Licence, and he is a long way from getting it. He started but failed to complete his UEFA B licence, the lowest rung on the coaching ladder for ex-professional players.
Ince also started but did not finish a Certificate of Applied Management for Football, a diploma backed by the LMA and PFA intended to complement the coaching badges. He was expected at the Warwick Business School earlier this month to work on this but decided to take a golfing holiday in Portugal instead.
Last week, Ince was due to observe a Welsh FA coaching course in Aberystwyth, a special arrangement to help him back into the qualification process. He did not turn up and has offered no explanation."
What a lot of rubbish....it's not as if he's going to be a brain surgeon or running an international conglomerate...it's only some guys kicking a damn ball, so why the need for all the 'qualifications'?
What about the managers of those little teams that occassionally make it through to the F.A. Cup Final-surely they don't have to have the qualifications?
I cannot understand what difference a persons colour makes to anything, it is how a person is inside and their capabilities which should be judged.
Can you judge a book by its colour? Skin is no different, just an outside coating.
northener
23-Jun-08, 08:37
One only has to look at the media hype surrounding Barack Obama regarding his colour.
Every time someone is wheeled out and paraded as 'The first Black...' it makes me cringe.
All it does is draw attention to the fact that there are those amongst us who feel that black people are different and should be paraded as an example to the rest of the black community when they have achieved something: "Look everybody, he's intelligent and black. Wow! Isn't he clever" [disgust]
Cue pat on head.
Surely highlighting someones achievement because of their race is intrinsically racist and bloody well patronising?
.
brokencross
23-Jun-08, 09:36
Surely highlighting someones achievement because of their race is intrinsically racist and bloody well patronising?
You are spot on.
What a lot of rubbish....it's not as if he's going to be a brain surgeon or running an international conglomerate...it's only some guys kicking a damn ball, so why the need for all the 'qualifications'?
What about the managers of those little teams that occassionally make it through to the F.A. Cup Final-surely they don't have to have the qualifications?
Rules is rules, I suppose. I agree with you though, surely running a football team is not rocket science. In the end, it will be results that will count, not his qualifications OR his colour.
Thought this was quite good from my nephew's web site ............
A black man walks into a cafe one early morning and noticed that he was the only black man there. As he sat down, he noticed a white man behind him.
The white man said, "Colored people are not allowed here."
The black man turned around and stood up. He then said:
"When I was born I was black,"
"When I grew up I was black,"
"When I'm sick I'm black,"
"When I go in the sun I'm black,"
"When I'm cold I'm black,"
"When I die I'll be black."
"But you sir..."
"When you're born you're pink,"
"When you grow up you're white,"
"When you're sick, you're green,"
"When you go in the sun you turn red,"
"When you're cold you turn blue,"
"And when you die you turn purple."
"And you have the nerve to call me colored"
The black man then sat back down and the white man walked away...
One only has to look at the media hype surrounding Barack Obama regarding his colour..
Surely the Obama thing is more to do with the fact that the US has come a long way since the slave trade - a completely different kettle of fish to the black football manager in this country story.
I do agree that the colour of someone's skin should make no difference! We are all human beings first and foremost. I also feel that it is the way of the world to see the bad in people before the good. Will we, as a race, ever learn to live with each other?
As regards Paul Ince's qualifications - yep it does not seem like he is trying to help himself out here, if the papers have it right, but there are many people without standard qualifications who make there way perfectly well and often better than those with all the book learning.
One only has to look at the media hype surrounding Barack Obama regarding his colour.
Every time someone is wheeled out and paraded as 'The first Black...' it makes me cringe.
All it does is draw attention to the fact that there are those amongst us who feel that black people are different and should be paraded as an example to the rest of the black community when they have achieved something: "Look everybody, he's intelligent and black. Wow! Isn't he clever" [disgust]
Cue pat on head.
Surely highlighting someones achievement because of their race is intrinsically racist and bloody well patronising?
.Here's Fox new doing a hatchet job on Obama. Supposedly 'the network America trusts for fair and balanced news.'
Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouKJixL--ms)
Here's Fox new doing a hatchet job on Obama. Supposedly 'the network America trusts for fair and balanced news.'
Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouKJixL--ms)
I wouldn't trust anything from Fox-after all, they are owned by NewsCorp, part of Rupert Murdoch's empire. Anything that involves Rupert Murdoch can't be trusted. The man has too much influence in too many peoples lives.
Here's Fox new doing a hatchet job on Obama. Supposedly 'the network America trusts for fair and balanced news.'
Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouKJixL--ms)
Surely now we can add to the list - what is in a name? I hate smoking with a passion too but I seriously don't think I would let it interfere with my wish for a better country or better world! I am probably one of the people on here who know the least about politics but I just cannot be bothered with all this fighting and back stabbing and dirt digging. For heavens sake little wonder we are all in the messes we are in if this is all we have to do!
I wouldn't trust anything from Fox-after all, they are owned by NewsCorp, part of Rupert Murdoch's empire. Anything that involves Rupert Murdoch can't be trusted. The man has too much influence in too many peoples lives.
Surely now we can add to the list - what is in a name? I hate smoking with a passion too but I seriously don't think I would let it interfere with my wish for a better country or better world! I am probably one of the people on here who know the least about politics but I just cannot be bothered with all this fighting and back stabbing and dirt digging. For heavens sake little wonder we are all in the messes we are in if this is all we have to do!We should be able to trust news networks for fair and unbiased political commentary, not propaganda.
The skin colour should be irrelevant, the appointment should be based on his skill and his commitment to become a great manager.
If I was a Blackburn fan I would be less worried about his colour but more concerned by this quote from the Daily Mail........
"But something is gnawing away at the managerial community. Blackburn are accused of doing something wrong because, according to the rules, Ince does not have the necessary coaching qualifications for the job, namely the UEFA Pro-Licence, and he is a long way from getting it. He started but failed to complete his UEFA B licence, the lowest rung on the coaching ladder for ex-professional players.
Ince also started but did not finish a Certificate of Applied Management for Football, a diploma backed by the LMA and PFA intended to complement the coaching badges. He was expected at the Warwick Business School earlier this month to work on this but decided to take a golfing holiday in Portugal instead.
Last week, Ince was due to observe a Welsh FA coaching course in Aberystwyth, a special arrangement to help him back into the qualification process. He did not turn up and has offered no explanation."
If true, it hardly shows a commitment to become the first GREAT black manager.
Other managers have had dispensations but show commitment and a willingness to comply with regs.
Unfortunately history shows good football player does not necessarily equate to good football manager.History also shows that having a U.E.F.A Pro licence does not guarantee success either. How many of the truely great managers even had a coaching certificate?
We should be able to trust news networks for fair and unbiased political commentary, not propaganda.
In an ideal world, we should. I don't feel I can. :(
I don't think the colour of a person's skin matters one jot either, it certainly doesn't to me, but sadly to some people it still does. :(
TV interviews with white American voters saying things like "I wouldn't vote for a black candidate no matter what" show what a long way there is to go. Even having a non-white presidential candidate would have been unthinkable just a few decades ago. Some people may have only progressed to 'tolerating' fellow citizens with a different skin colour - tolerance is not the same as accepting as equal, and miles from just not seeing any difference.
Skin colour shouldn't be important, but I can see that sometimes when it's the first time a black person has reached a particular position, it's a significant measure of where a society is -having reached a level of acceptance, but not yet having got to the stage where skin colour is seen to be completely irrelevant.
Similarly we do still quite often hear about someone being the 'first woman' to achieve something -e.g. 'first woman to reach such a senior position in the police force', 'first woman to be killed serving in Afghanistan'. Gender shouldn't matter either. These news stories also show individuals doing what was previously socially unacceptable -but the fact that gender is still considered newsworthy shows we still have a fair way to go in treating people as equals in that respect as well.
Good post Angela and God help us if this is the only level we have reached in the 21st century. I agree, tolerance is not agreeing with something but putting up with it, not a great reflection on society as a whole.
I have to disagree with certain points, whilst ultimately he will be judged on his performances (and rightly so) the colour of his skin in this instance is important, as it might have an affect on black people wanting to become managers.
A few months ago the BBC did an article on black (english) managers, and the severe lack of them in the professional game. Something that came out of that article was the lack of any incentive for black footballers to go into management.
Ince’s appointment could be seen as a big step forward, especially for those young up and coming (black) managers, as they now have something to aspire to. They might think they could have always done it, but now that someone HAS done it, it becomes an even stronger reality.
It’s as important as when Viv Anderson become the first black player to represent England, and the same will be said when the first Indian player plays in the premiership/premior league or for one of the British national teams.
Viv and Paul played/are playing a groundbreaking role in the progress of black people in football. I am sure there are other 'firsts' in other sports.
It’s all about breaking down barriers and opening doors to those who never thought they would have the opportunity.
I have to disagree with certain points, whilst ultimately he will be judged on his performances (and rightly so) the colour of his skin in this instance is important, as it might have an affect on black people wanting to become managers.
A few months ago the BBC did an article on black (english) managers, and the severe lack of them in the professional game. Something that came out of that article was the lack of any incentive for black footballers to go into management.
Ince’s appointment could be seen as a big step forward, especially for those young up and coming (black) managers, as they now have something to aspire to. They might think they could have always done it, but now that someone HAS done it, it becomes an even stronger reality.
It’s as important as when Viv Anderson become the first black player to represent England, and the same will be said when the first Indian player plays in the premiership/premior league or for one of the British national teams.
Viv and Paul played/are playing a groundbreaking role in the progress of black people in football. I am sure there are other 'firsts' in other sports.
It’s all about breaking down barriers and opening doors to those who never thought they would have the opportunity.So if he fails that is a reflection on up and coming black managers? What a shower of anal retentives we are as a society.
I think you've missed my point TBH!
His appointment will aspire other black players to follow, to work towards becoming the next black manager!
Like I said it’s all about breaking down barriers and opening doors to those who never thought they would have the opportunity.
If he fails that is a reflection of his ability to do the job and nothing to do with his colour! Just like all managers, some fail, some do well.
His appointment will aspire other black players to follow, to work towards becoming the next black manager!
Like I said it’s all about breaking down barriers and opening doors to those who never thought they would have the opportunity
Thing is though, he should not, nor any other black person have to aspire or breakdown barriers in the first place.
Thing is though, he should not, nor any other black person have to aspire or breakdown barriers in the first place.
I agree with you. No-one should have to breakdown barriers, but unfortunately that's how society is at the moment.
I also agee with Angela:
we still have a fair way to go in treating people as equals.
Barriers are what stop us living together in any sort of harmony - we should all wish to break them down!
Barriers are what stop us living together in any sort of harmony - we should all wish to break them down!
True, and until we accept that Religion is the biggest barrier of them all harmony will be a long time coming.
percy toboggan
23-Jun-08, 19:03
Of course it is not 'racist' to state Ince is the Premier League's first 'black' manager.
It's an area where black men are under represented....given their over representation on the pitch....and in the 'England' national football team.....due to athletic ability, and talent. Of course their race helps them excel in the field of athleticism. Or is it 'racist' to suggest this? I call it stating the obvious. If I'm wrong then I expect another sanction.
If freedom of expression pertains though It's not racist either to remind folk that black people make up much less than ten percent of the population of Great Britain.
In other areas of course they are also over represented....but I'll not go into that at this stage.
On an individual basis I agree with the general consensus that skin colour does not matter. No race is superior to any other although there are undeniably different traits.
Kevin Milkins
24-Jun-08, 17:52
They call them dumb animals but perhaps we could learn a thing or two on how to co-exist.:confusedhttp://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm196/kevinmilkins/06_24_37.jpg
percy toboggan
24-Jun-08, 18:27
An interesting analogy Kevin.
I believe birds have existed far longer upon this planet
than sheep. They are utterly self-reliant and require not one jot of animal husbandry to thrive...unlike sheep. How do you explain their inclination to peck to death
any unusual interlopers (Budgerigars for example) within their ranks?
I've always thought that a bit harsh and nobody has ever explained why.
percy toboggan
24-Jun-08, 18:31
Incidentally I must correct an earlier mistake of mine.
I believe Mr.Ruud Gullit - a Dutchman apparently, was the first black manager of a Premier League club (Chelsea)...Ince is of course the first one born in Britain to do so.
He was on local north-west news tonight looking sharp, and confident.
Another of Fergie's old boys who obviously learned many lessons from the master himself.
Bruce, Hughes , Keane to name but three.
Aside: Ince - known as the Guv'nor during his playing days has a stiff test ahead and a tough act to follow. I hope the supporters of Blackburn Rovers give him ample time to succeed. With their striking blue and white halved shirts and their location on the edge of a fine old Lancashire mill town they were what football was all about to myself as a young kid. I remember taking a train ride to see them play Q.P.R. one day in '69 when City's game was postponed. Rodney Marsh idled about for rangers. Another Ewood trip c.1963 brings vivid memories of children spilling over onto the cinder track around the edge of the pitch when the capacity of the terraces was exceeded. Quite what I was doing there that day I cannot recall. Bryan Douglas and Ronny Clayton excelled for Rovers, I recall the tree trunk legs of Bill Foulkes. Happy, carefree days indeed.
Grandma that was so smart:lol:
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