View Full Version : Warning - NOT to be read by do-gooders or hand-wringers
I received this email today. Makes interesting reading however I really don't see his methods being used in this country-unfortunately.
USA JAIL - SOME INTERESTING READING
TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO, HE IS THE MARICOPACOUNTY SHERIFF ( ARIZONA ) AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
These are some of the reasons why:
http://by101w.bay101.mail.live.com/mail/SafeRedirect.aspx?hm__tg=http://64.4.56.249/att/GetAttachment.aspx&hm__qs=file%3dc1a5ab49-68c3-4986-9f1d-c81a6b594c80.jpg%26ct%3daW1hZ2UvanBlZw_3d_3d%26nam e%3daW1hZ2UwMDIuanBn%26inline%3d1%26rfc%3d0%26empt y%3dFalse%26imgsrc%3dcid%253aimage002.jpg%254001C8 CB0D.8AFC67F0&oneredir=1&ip=10.1.106.203&d=d3534&mf=0
Sheriff Joe Arpaio created the 'tent city jail' to save Arizona from spending tens of millions of dollars on another expensive prison complex.
He has jail meals down to 20 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.
He banned smoking and pornographic magazines in the jails, and took away their weightlifting equipment and cut off all but 'G' movies. He says:
'They're in jail to pay a debt to society not to build muscles so they can assault innocent people when they leave.'
http://by101w.bay101.mail.live.com/mail/SafeRedirect.aspx?hm__tg=http://64.4.56.249/att/GetAttachment.aspx&hm__qs=file%3d2d1ccb7d-2642-488c-87eb-40e2107f705d.jpg%26ct%3daW1hZ2UvanBlZw_3d_3d%26nam e%3daW1hZ2UwMDMuanBn%26inline%3d1%26rfc%3d0%26empt y%3dFalse%26imgsrc%3dcid%253aimage003.jpg%254001C8 CB0D.8AFC67F0&oneredir=1&ip=10.1.106.203&d=d3534&mf=0
He started chain gangs to use the inmates to do free work on county and city projects and save taxpayer's money.
http://by101w.bay101.mail.live.com/mail/SafeRedirect.aspx?hm__tg=http://64.4.56.249/att/GetAttachment.aspx&hm__qs=file%3dc0324e0d-7c20-487b-a232-1d758c66a640.jpg%26ct%3daW1hZ2UvanBlZw_3d_3d%26nam e%3daW1hZ2UwMDQuanBn%26inline%3d1%26rfc%3d0%26empt y%3dFalse%26imgsrc%3dcid%253aimage004.jpg%254001C8 CB0D.8AFC67F0&oneredir=1&ip=10.1.106.203&d=d3534&mf=0
Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.
He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only allows the Disney channel and the weather channel.
When asked why the weather channel, he replied: 'So these morons will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.'
He cut off coffee because it has zero nutritional value and is therefore a waste of taxpayer's money. When the inmates complained, he told them, 'This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back.'
He also bought the Newt Gingrich lecture series on US history that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series that actually tells the truth for a change would be welcome and that it might even explain why 95% of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.
With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record for June 2nd 2007), the Associated Press reported: About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.
On theWednesday, hundreds of men wearing pink boxer shorts were overheard chatting in the tents, where temperatures reached 128 degrees.
'This is hell. It feels like we live in a furnace,' said Ernesto Gonzales, an inmate for 2years with 10 more to go. 'It's inhumane.'
Joe Arpaio, who makes his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. 'Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for parole, only to go out and commit more crimes so they can come back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things many taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves.'
The same day he told all the inmates who were complaining of the heat in the tents: 'It's between 120 to 130 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to walk all day in the sun, wearing full battle gear and get shot at, and they have not committed any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!'
Way to go, Sheriff! If all prisons were like yours there would be a lot less crime and we would not be in the current position of running out of prison spaces.
....maybe if the temp was 116 deg F in the north of Scotland! but no I agree it is unlikely to happen:lol:
Seems just the sort of guy we need to run our prisons. After all the inmates are supposed to be punished aren`t they?
Sapphire2803
16-Jun-08, 22:55
They have cable tv and they're warm! Lucky sods....
dirdyweeker
16-Jun-08, 22:57
That sounds like one helluva man. He has it right! No doubt many will come on and argue how it is too tough for the poor prisoners, but seems like he is making sure they don't come back. Someone who has his head screwed on and a great sense of humour too!:D
Bring him to Britain.......
If you're a do-gooder you may be more inclined to agree with this site:
http://www.arpaio.com/
This is what prison should be like. Too much of the "soft touch" in Britain. The majority of prisoners here have a better life inside than out with a warm bed, sat. TV, food on the table and a constant supply of whatever takes their fancy for recreational use. No wonder they keep coming back. This guy definitely needs to teach the British a thing or two. He'd certainly get my vote.
This is what prison should be like. Too much of the "soft touch" in Britain. The majority of prisoners here have a better life inside than out with a warm bed, sat. TV, food on the table and a constant supply of whatever takes their fancy for recreational use. No wonder they keep coming back. This guy definitely needs to teach the British a thing or two. He'd certainly get my vote.
He'd definitely get mine too, Venture, I've always thought that prisons should be run along the same lines as they were in the film "Papillon". Having to augment the diet by eating cockroaches would certainly make me think about breaking the law ever again.
Wonder what his take on drug abuse is?
oldmarine
17-Jun-08, 00:39
I received this email today. Makes interesting reading however I really don't see his methods being used in this country-unfortunately.
USA JAIL - SOME INTERESTING READING
TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO, HE IS THE MARICOPACOUNTY SHERIFF ( ARIZONA ) AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
These are some of the reasons why:
http://by101w.bay101.mail.live.com/mail/SafeRedirect.aspx?hm__tg=http://64.4.56.249/att/GetAttachment.aspx&hm__qs=file%3dc1a5ab49-68c3-4986-9f1d-c81a6b594c80.jpg%26ct%3daW1hZ2UvanBlZw_3d_3d%26nam e%3daW1hZ2UwMDIuanBn%26inline%3d1%26rfc%3d0%26empt y%3dFalse%26imgsrc%3dcid%253aimage002.jpg%254001C8 CB0D.8AFC67F0&oneredir=1&ip=10.1.106.203&d=d3534&mf=0
Sheriff Joe Arpaio created the 'tent city jail' to save Arizona from spending tens of millions of dollars on another expensive prison complex.
He has jail meals down to 20 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.
He banned smoking and pornographic magazines in the jails, and took away their weightlifting equipment and cut off all but 'G' movies. He says:
'They're in jail to pay a debt to society not to build muscles so they can assault innocent people when they leave.'
http://by101w.bay101.mail.live.com/mail/SafeRedirect.aspx?hm__tg=http://64.4.56.249/att/GetAttachment.aspx&hm__qs=file%3d2d1ccb7d-2642-488c-87eb-40e2107f705d.jpg%26ct%3daW1hZ2UvanBlZw_3d_3d%26nam e%3daW1hZ2UwMDMuanBn%26inline%3d1%26rfc%3d0%26empt y%3dFalse%26imgsrc%3dcid%253aimage003.jpg%254001C8 CB0D.8AFC67F0&oneredir=1&ip=10.1.106.203&d=d3534&mf=0
He started chain gangs to use the inmates to do free work on county and city projects and save taxpayer's money.
http://by101w.bay101.mail.live.com/mail/SafeRedirect.aspx?hm__tg=http://64.4.56.249/att/GetAttachment.aspx&hm__qs=file%3dc0324e0d-7c20-487b-a232-1d758c66a640.jpg%26ct%3daW1hZ2UvanBlZw_3d_3d%26nam e%3daW1hZ2UwMDQuanBn%26inline%3d1%26rfc%3d0%26empt y%3dFalse%26imgsrc%3dcid%253aimage004.jpg%254001C8 CB0D.8AFC67F0&oneredir=1&ip=10.1.106.203&d=d3534&mf=0
Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.
He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only allows the Disney channel and the weather channel.
When asked why the weather channel, he replied: 'So these morons will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.'
He cut off coffee because it has zero nutritional value and is therefore a waste of taxpayer's money. When the inmates complained, he told them, 'This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back.'
He also bought the Newt Gingrich lecture series on US history that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series that actually tells the truth for a change would be welcome and that it might even explain why 95% of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.
With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record for June 2nd 2007), the Associated Press reported: About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.
On theWednesday, hundreds of men wearing pink boxer shorts were overheard chatting in the tents, where temperatures reached 128 degrees.
'This is hell. It feels like we live in a furnace,' said Ernesto Gonzales, an inmate for 2years with 10 more to go. 'It's inhumane.'
Joe Arpaio, who makes his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. 'Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for parole, only to go out and commit more crimes so they can come back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things many taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves.'
The same day he told all the inmates who were complaining of the heat in the tents: 'It's between 120 to 130 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to walk all day in the sun, wearing full battle gear and get shot at, and they have not committed any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!'
Way to go, Sheriff! If all prisons were like yours there would be a lot less crime and we would not be in the current position of running out of prison spaces.
Living in Tucson, AZ (124 miles South of Phoenix) I know Sheriff Joe's reputation quite well. Our Sheriff here in Pima County (Sheriff Dupnik) where Tucson is located doesn't go to those extremes, but he has stated that Sheriff Joe's Maricopa County has many problems that require that type of control. I will go further by stating that our crime problems here in Pima County is getting much worse and more drastic measures may have to be taken to get them under control. It appears to me that we are going back to the old frontier days when crime was so bad that Arizona was the last state (48th at that time) to be admitted to the union. The USA at that time did not want this lawless territory admitted to the union.
WAY TO GO SHERIFF !!!!
As some of the recent reports in the papers show. Our inmates have mobile phones to arrange murders. Any drug you can want for your stay, internet access, game consoles/tvs/cable and more all in some of their cells.
Human rights ? hmmmmm I say ask their victims if they deserve these rights.:confused
Can we get a reality show and swap some prisoners from his camp, now that would be fun to see how bad ass some of our idiots are.
Lord Flasheart
17-Jun-08, 01:22
Thanks jox !!
Carlsberg dont make Jailers, but if they did ... ;):lol:
Can we get a reality show and swap some prisoners from his camp, now that would be fun to see how bad ass some of our idiots are.
It's been done - they didn't do too well. They were 'volunteers' and as a last chance sort of arrangement to try and break their offending the were sent to Arizona for a month if I recall. The programme was shown on Sky about 6 months ago.
Brits Behind Bars: America’s Toughest Jail will take ten UK men to a US prison in the desert. Known as the "Alcatraz of Arizona," the prison is notorious for its brutal, zero tolerance approach to punishment.
Celia Taylor, Bravo’s director of programmes said: "I've never seen a reality programme that is genuinely scary and so real. We took a risk putting British blokes in this prison and it's paid off with a really compelling and exciting series. At the same time it also manages to ask some interesting questions about a prison system and how it affects a group of men who face an uncertain future. These guys really went through a tough regime the result is a fascinating and shocking series."
The group of men will experience the extreme harsh reality of the prison, under the watchful eye of Sheriff Joe Arpaio, a man notorious for his unorthodox methods of rehabilitation which include a chain gang, feeding inmates on cheap out-of-date food, burying the dead and an austere punishment regime.
If you want to see clips from episodes of this it is still available on the Bravo website - 18+ certificate
Some of the BB9 fans might recognise Mario....
Can our sheriffs please have some of those capabilities?
Would see then what difference it would make to the British crime rate.
Way to go Arpaio, if the link Joxville provided is genuine would all those calling for a like-minded police force in Britain be quite happy for reports of a man dying through internal injuries consistent with a physical kicking and it being claimed to have been caused by falling out of a bed in the holding cell. Falling out of bed also scored him a broken neck and several broken toes, allegedly. A known diabetic being refused treatment and eventually dying in hospital. Or the man that went into their cells a paraplegic and came out a quadraplegic. Is it about time Britain had a police-force capable of such acts.
This is what prison should be like. Too much of the "soft touch" in Britain. The majority of prisoners here have a better life inside than out with a warm bed, sat. TV, food on the table and a constant supply of whatever takes their fancy for recreational use. No wonder they keep coming back. This guy definitely needs to teach the British a thing or two. He'd certainly get my vote.
Aye, what ever happened to sentences of "Hard Labour"?
These days they get sentenced to 10 years "New Labour"!!
He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only allows the Disney channel and the weather channel.
Knowing our incompetent administrators, if the same scheme was in force in the UK the inmates would be having "Prison Break" piped in via Cable.
the charlatans
17-Jun-08, 17:13
I got that e-mail and totally agree with the sheriff. If you don't like the time, don't do the crime.
Did anyone hear Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 on Monday lunchtime where they were discussing this and Labours new take on it - make Community Service more visible. They had two sides of the coin and the 'do-gooder/hand-wringer' said it was de-motivating and ridiculing to have people doing Community Service wearing pink/hi-vis tabbards. He agreed that people should be doing the Community Service to stay out of jail but instead of ridiculling them they should put up signs to say that the work was carried out by people on Community Service. His opposite was a Community Outreach worker who was totally for the victim and would have them in Orange Boiler suits. I have to agree with her, our justice system does not seem to serve the victim.
I say, let them wear pink.
NickInTheNorth
17-Jun-08, 17:46
Well I've read it, and have to say I totally agree with the methods implemented over there.
By the way this is hardly front page news, it is at least 10 years since this tough no-nonsense law man was directly elected to do his job.
Just as soon as we elect those that implement our incarcerations on their own personal platform, and on their own personal merit, then I will completely accept this type of severe regime. Until that day I would not trust our self serving money grabbing nose in the trough politicians to implement any decent system of penal servitude, they're all too busy lining their pockets to be trusted, and it is just about impossible to hold them to account for their actions.
And for anyone interested in more about Maricopa county and it's infamous sheriff's department, here's the link (http://www.mcso.org/index.php?a=Home)!
George Brims
17-Jun-08, 19:02
They had two sides of the coin and the 'do-gooder/hand-wringer' said it was de-motivating and ridiculing to have people doing Community Service wearing pink/hi-vis tabbards.
Here in California Community Service often consists of picking up litter along the side of the freeway, so I am pretty sure the people doing it are grateful for the orange boiler suits they have to wear. The worst bit of it is that toilet facilities are a bright orange port-a-potty on a trailer on the hard shoulder. I can not imagine sitting in that while some 50 ton 18-wheeler flies by about a yard from my elbow. Well I can imagine it but I would rather not!
Meanwhile I would like to know how long the sheriff in Az has been treating the prisoners like that, and if it has had any measurable effect on the rate of re-offending. We have to remember that the people locked up weren't very bright or very moral in the first place, or they wouldn't be in there. I know there is quite a lot of research that shows that detection rates are more effective than harsher punishment at reducing crime. That is the philosophy behind the "broken window" model of policing that reduced crime in New York, and is also working here in LA (our police chief was one of the people who developed that methodology in NY).
Seems to me that prison should mean prison. I dont see anything wrong with that mans methods at all. Prison should be Humane but it should be prison. I wouldnt do the Papillon thing but i could certainly go with the steps this guy has taken. I would however make sure they are fed nutritionally - seems to me that in scotland instead of getting hte cost down really really cheap - we should just feed all the inmates salad and vegetables - they dont seem to be popular anywhere....
I didnt hear Jeremy Vine - thank goodness - a friend of mine calls the show the Jeremy Whine show:roll:.... There is every need for community based sentences and those types of punishment that make criminals face their victims. The more the better if you ask me. People have to face the consequences of their actions
seems to me that this sheriff has the right idea, that is the way prison should be, reckon we should get him across here to reform the prisons in britain.
Way t' go!! This guy should be made prison director of the world. What a wonderful attitude! I have always thought that prisoners were actually rewarded for their criminal behaviour. I especially loved his comparison to the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan - so true.
I hardly dare enter this thread with all my hand wringing but I will anyway. FIne by me for your Super Sheriff to dish out the punishment to hardened amoral prisoners who've chosen to be evil despite all advantages in life, but don't most prisoners end up in gaol because of (a) poverty, (b) lack of intelligence/gumption to get themselves out of poverty and (c) inability to cure their own drug habit and shape up.
There but for fortune go I. I'm off to start a Hand Ringing Club because I'm fast coming to the conclusion that Orgers these days read nothing but the Sun, Mirror, Express etc.
I hardly dare enter this thread with all my hand wringing but I will anyway. FIne by me for your Super Sheriff to dish out the punishment to hardened amoral prisoners who've chosen to be evil despite all advantages in life, but don't most prisoners end up in gaol because of (a) poverty, (b) lack of intelligence/gumption to get themselves out of poverty and (c) inability to cure their own drug habit and shape up.
There but for fortune go I. I'm off to start a Hand Ringing Club because I'm fast coming to the conclusion that Orgers these days read nothing but the Sun, Mirror, Express etc.
There is such a thing as free-will. No-one forced these people to become who they are. We are ulimately responsible for ourselves and our actions.
A hand (w)ringing club eh? Include me out then.
As for Orgers reading nothing but the Sun, Mirror, Express etc. then once again include me out. I don't buy them-I have a brain and don't need Rupert Murdoch et al to think and make decisions for me.
(a) poverty
(b) lack of intelligence/gumption to get themselves out of poverty
(c) inability to cure their own drug habit and shape up.
There are many people living in poverty, who may not have the intelligence or opportunity to lift themselves out of said poverty, who do not resort to crime.
The desire to be a law abiding citizen is not automatically removed by poverty.
northener
22-Jun-08, 14:06
I hardly dare enter this thread with all my hand wringing but I will anyway. FIne by me for your Super Sheriff to dish out the punishment to hardened amoral prisoners who've chosen to be evil despite all advantages in life, but don't most prisoners end up in gaol because of (a) poverty, (b) lack of intelligence/gumption to get themselves out of poverty and (c) inability to cure their own drug habit and shape up.
.........
Sorry Tilter, but to lay all the offenders problems at the doors of poverty, low intelligence and drug abuse is somewhat patronising.
I'm all for keeping people out of prisons if they make a genuine attempt to get some control over their lives.
Unfortunately, nearly all of the -shall we say - more nefarious characters I know only go into remorse mode once they've been caught and have some well-intentioned but gullible 'champion' to play up to.
Recidivists should be sent to hard-line establishments. They've had their chances to reform and chose to ignore them....tough.
There but for fortune go I. I'm off to start a Hand Ringing Club because I'm fast coming to the conclusion that Orgers these days read nothing but the Sun, Mirror, Express etc.
Not me... Telegraph generally. Tabloids make me cringe. You'll probably find that the mental agility and literary dexterity of most orgers is a mile above your Sun, Mirror, Express, etc. And someone has to read the tabloids to tell us of the jokes that the broadsheets tend to be somewhat lacking in. ;)
oldmarine
23-Jun-08, 01:07
Meanwhile I would like to know how long the sheriff in Az has been treating the prisoners like that, and if it has had any measurable effect on the rate of re-offending. We have to remember that the people locked up weren't very bright or very moral in the first place, or they wouldn't be in there. I know there is quite a lot of research that shows that detection rates are more effective than harsher punishment at reducing crime. That is the philosophy behind the "broken window" model of policing that reduced crime in New York, and is also working here in LA (our police chief was one of the people who developed that methodology in NY).
George: This act has been going on for several years by Sheriff Joe in Maricopa, AZ. He keeps getting reelected by the county population. A large majority keep voting him back into office. You are correct that many of the people locked up weren't very bright or very moral in the first place, but it does have a great screening effect that many do not want to come back and they do try to avoid a repeat sentence. As a result, there are not too many repeat offenders. As for what you claim about LA, CA, the last several times I visited my brother in Poway, CA he claimed that LA could use Sheriff Joe's method of handling prisoners. So be it..........
Hello. Fair enough, this thread came with a warning and I posted at my peril. I will enter your black-and-white world for a moment and concede all your points.
Jumping back to my shades-of-grey world before getting outta here, I'd like to point out that there are probably as many reasons for people turning to crime as there are crimes, and the reasons I listed will figure in there somewhere.
Can I assume you gentlemen support bringing back the death penalty?
If prisons are so wonderful here why aren't we all queueing, Butlins without the beach sounds great especially with the weather! Maybe we could raise revenue by expanding them and paying to go for holidays there rather than have the bother of getting caught doing a crime.
northener
25-Jun-08, 14:55
Hello. Fair enough, this thread came with a warning and I posted at my peril. I will enter your black-and-white world for a moment and concede all your points.
Jumping back to my shades-of-grey world before getting outta here, I'd like to point out that there are probably as many reasons for people turning to crime as there are crimes, and the reasons I listed will figure in there somewhere.
Can I assume you gentlemen support bringing back the death penalty?
There will always be those who shouldn't really be in prison, Tilter. Support should be given to those who are willing to change.
BUT, you need to draw a very thick line between these and the career criminals who couldn't give a toss about anyone or anything...and there's a lot of them about.
Death penalty? I may suprise you on that one......
Death penalty? I may suprise you on that one......
Hi Northern One,
Waiting to be surprised.
I'd support the death penalty if Mugabe and his ilk could be on the list.
rob murray
26-Jun-08, 16:37
Fine, hard time should be on the cards for those who committ hard crime...should people jailed for debt do this type of sentence...think not. Also the do gooders have created a mountain of new offences all punished by fines...non payment = jail. So cut the mountain of legislation / cut so called crimes, focus on using hard time as a real deterant...but lets face it..would this deter a junkie from stealing etc...they might not enjoy the experience but our junk filled jails will fill up time and time again no matter what the jail experience.
Bit ironic this thread eh ? The jails have a large % intake of junkies / drug related criminals....now read the org posting on druggies !!!!
I saw a documentary on this jail not so long ago and found it really interesting. I do believe this is the way prisons should be. The underwear is dyed pink because when it was white it got stolen, so noone wants to steal it when it's pink! The prison officers seemed to be ok guys, but took no crap, and the prisoners knew it. Pitty the UK couldn't take a leaf. No way that would ever happen though.
Can I assume you gentlemen support bringing back the death penalty?
Absolutely, for people like Ian Huntley, Myra Hindley, Ian Brady etc.
Absolutely, for people like Ian Huntley, Myra Hindley, Ian Brady etc.
What if one of them was innocent? It's happened before. Could be you or me.
What if one of them was innocent? It's happened before. Could be you or me.
Of course it has happened that an innocent person was sentenced to death but that was long ago, in the days of police brutality when they forced a confession, planted evidence etc.
This is the 21st century where we have so much technology in use that it should be a lot easier to find the afore-mentioned guilty.
Lord Flasheart
26-Jun-08, 20:31
If prisons are so wonderful here why aren't we all queueing, Butlins without the beach sounds great especially with the weather! Maybe we could raise revenue by expanding them and paying to go for holidays there rather than have the bother of getting caught doing a crime.
Thought this article dovetailed nicely .. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7366258.stm .. loved the bit about the drug dealer using a ladder to get IN to the jail but no one used it to get OUT !!
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