Cub refuses oath

[hotrod4]

I was shocked to read today in the Daily Record that a cub has refused to take the cub scout oath on "religous grounds".
His mother states its his own mind and sites the 1701 act of settlement denying Catholics the crown.
Obviously a very brainwashed child as he wont say an oath to the Queen as its against his Catholic religion!.he obviously needs to go to mass more and learn about acceptance!
What utter nonsense.
The scout movement allow for all religions by allowing the word "god" to be substituted with whatever religion they want.
Obviously this boy and his Family need to be taught that to take an oath for "the Queen" is actually taking a patriotic oath for your country with "the Queen" being the head of state for us,that is why the word "Queen" is used.

This is out and out scandalous and feel that if this was a Protestant or Muslim boy refusing something Catholic, he would have been labelled a Bigot!

To make matters worse the cubs meet in a Parish church which obviously isnt catholic but they have no objections to that!!!!!

[northener]

There's a very simple answer to people like this:

Tough.
If you aren't prepared to agree to the club rules - you aren't going to be allowed to join.

[the_count]

I always thought that a cub HAD to take the oath to be in the cub/scouts and if i had been the cub/scout leader i would have had the boy flogged and his woggle cut into tiny pieces lol :lol:

[northener]

I always thought that a cub HAD to take the oath to be in the cub/scouts and if i had been the cub/scout leader i would have had the boy flogged and his woggle cut into tiny pieces lol :lol:

I'd have flogged his woggle before cutting it into pieces...we need more woggle flogging in this country.

Seriously though, this is another example of narrow-minded selfish individuals putting their own personal agenda above the cause of the whole group. No doubt they will be squawking about their 'rights'.
Just the sort of people you'd like your kids to be mixing with down at the local Cubs group, eh?[disgust]

.

[bekisman]

Below is the story.
I do find it incredible that an eight year old boy would hold such thoughts - seem to remember my main worry at eight was whether soaking my conkers in vinegar would do any good and make it a 'king'.. "I would just like him to be a Cub Scout without compromising on what he believes in." Hmm or is that what YOU believe in Mrs McVeigh?..
Bottom line there's no such thing as a '*Catholic child' it's 'a child of a Catholic' (now who said that?)

(Thisislondon.co.uk) "An eight-year-old boy has been told he cannot become a full Cub Scout because he refused to swear allegiance to the Queen on religious grounds. Matthew McVeigh, a Catholic, refused to say the Cub Scout Promise in full because it includes the phrase 'I promise to do my duty to God and to the Queen'. He wanted to change the line to 'I promise to do my duty to God and to the country' because of his religious beliefs but was told it was not acceptable.
The leader of his Cub Scout Group told him he could only become a fully-fledged scout if he said the whole promise, his mother Tracy Anne claimed. She said: 'I was gobsmacked that the Cub Scout commissioner said that if Matthew didn't say the promise then he would effectively be out the door. 'He said he could still go along to trips but he would not be insured or anything.'
The Cub Scout Promise was worded way back in 1907 and, let's face it, times have moved on. It is high time the Cub Scouts updated themselves and their Promise. 'Matthew absolutely adores the Cub Scouts. I am not asking for special treatment. I would just like him to be a Cub Scout without compromising on what he believes in.'
The 29-year-old, speaking to the Daily Record, branded the decision a 'disgrace', claiming it contradicted multi-culturalism. 'The 1701 Act of Settlement specifically discriminates against Catholic people and only allows for Protestants to take the throne - so why should we make an oath to the monarchy?,' she said. 'The monarchy actively discriminates against Catholics. Matthew is an intelligent boy and did not want to say the promise to the Queen just for the sake of saying it. Matthew, who had been hoping to become a full member of the Scout group in Renfrewshire, Scotland, added: 'It's not fair. I don't want to say a promise that I don't believe in.

'I really enjoy the Cubs and don't want to feel left out or different to everybody else.' Children wanting to become Cub Scouts have to recite: 'I promise that I will do my best, to do my duty to God and the Queen, to help other people and to keep the Cub Scout Law' when they are formally accepted into the group. They then receive a badge, woggle and neckerchief and are recognised as a proper Cub Scout. Rules of the Scout Association already allow children who object to saying the word 'God' in the Promise to name other deities according to their faith. But Chris Foster, spokesman for The Scout Association, said the guidelines were not flexible in relation to the section about the Queen as long as the children were British.
He told the Daily Record: 'For people of other nationalities resident in the UK making the Cub Scout Promise, the phrase may be replaced by "duty to the country in which I am now living". 'However, British subjects must promise to do their duty to the Queen. It is simply UK Scout Association policy that all British subjects must promise that."
*Protestant, Muslin, Hindu, etc

[brokencross]

As well as flogging his woggle, it would be a good idea to pinch him by Ging Gang Goolies.

Does sound very much like a parent with an agenda. If this did come from his own mind and mouth at 8 years old, he will be a radical young man.

[Metalattakk]

I'd have flogged his woggle before cutting it into pieces...we need more woggle flogging in this country.

But in this modern day, with bureaucracy gone mad, we'd need to employ someone to note down and catalogue each instance of the flogging of a woggle.

And who would want a job title of "Chief Woggle Flogging Logger"?

[theone]

[QUOTE=hotrod4;394798]

This is out and out scandalous and feel that if this was a Protestant or Muslim boy refusing something Catholic, he would have been labelled a Bigot!

QUOTE]

I think you're right.

But the Scottish press, especially that from Glasgow only ever reports bigotry one way.

I also think this isn't a "Religious" issue. It's purely bigotry. The lad won't make a pledge to the Queen because she is not catholic. So if she was catholic, he would?

This little bigot will be shown in the scottish press to be a poor, oppressed victim and not as a banner for Scotlands "Secret Shame" as he should.

[Murdina Bug]

On the other hand......

I remember being about the age of 8 and asking a minister 'what came first God or dinosaurs' - this was my way of questioning how on earth religious ideas fitted with evolution as religion, even at that age, just did not make sense to me. I stress that this was my own idea - my mother made me go to Sunday school so she was certainly trying to 'brainwash' me into religion rather than against it. My point being that kids of 8 certainly can form their own opinions on matters.

Also, I think kids see things in black and white - this boy has been brought up a Catholic and (as his mother maybe told him) sees that there are some archaic laws regarding his chosen religion and the monarchy. Therefore in his eyes he has stated his preference not to swear allegiance to the Queen. What indeed is the problem with him swearing allegiance to his country instead?

The boy is just finding his way in the world and learning about free thought - a bit early to start branding him a bigot don't you think?

[rich]

Apparently this little chap is a believer in God. It is just the form of worship he objects to.
Had he been an out and out athiest I might have felt some sympathy for him. But whining on about which form of Christianity suits him reminds me of the battle we used to have to get my little brother to eat his cabbage at lunch time.
We had to make it into the shape of an aeroplane before he would touch it.
Perhaps something similar is required here.
On the other hand do they have a juvenile version of the Swiss Guards at the Vatican?
I hope they do. Because parading around with a seven foot pike in medieval drag sounds a lot more fun than putting up tents in the rain and singing asinine songs round a camp-fire.

[theone]

On the other hand......

I remember being about the age of 8 and asking a minister 'what came first God or dinosaurs' - this was my way of questioning how on earth religious ideas fitted with evolution as religion, even at that age, just did not make sense to me. I stress that this was my own idea - my mother made me go to Sunday school so she was certainly trying to 'brainwash' me into religion rather than against it. My point being that kids of 8 certainly can form their own opinions on matters.

Also, I think kids see things in black and white - this boy has been brought up a Catholic and (as his mother maybe told him) sees that there are some archaic laws regarding his chosen religion and the monarchy. Therefore in his eyes he has stated his preference not to swear allegiance to the Queen. What indeed is the problem with him swearing allegiance to his country instead?

The boy is just finding his way in the world and learning about free thought - a bit early to start branding him a bigot don't you think?


He's entitled to his free thought, and let him have it.

Let's put it this way, if you at age 8, having decided you didn't believe in God/religion etc, would you have turned up a church every year on the day of the prize giving/sunday school picnic expecting to take part? Would you then run to the papers about not being allowed to take part? I don't think so.

The boy has made his mind up that he doesn't agree with the cubs oath to the queen, because she is not catholic. He is therefore not allowed in the cubs.

[the_count]

But in this modern day, with bureaucracy gone mad, we'd need to employ someone to note down and catalogue each instance of the flogging of a woggle.

And who would want a job title of "Chief Woggle Flogging Logger"?


I'll put in for that posting lol sounds just the job for me :lol:

[Lord Flasheart]

I feel sorry for the kid. There is NO WAY he knows about the 1710 act of whatever denying Catholics the crown on his own. I smell a pushy parent spoiling it for a young lad who, had he joined the cubs would most probably had a good time there, made some mates and maybe even learned some skills.

When I was 8 my biggest worry was how to get the playing card that rubbed against the spokes of my bike to stay on properly .. Clothes peg finally did it if your wondering.

How times change eh ??

[Tristan]

His objection isn't to God (which I believe is a broad meaning and can encompass many faiths) but to the Queen.
I thought in the UK Queen IS county. That is why as a British citizen you can't separate the two. He may not like it that Catholics can't become King or Queen but that does not change the fact they cannot be separated and unless he wants to renounce his UK citizenship he should abide by the rules of his county.

[percy toboggan]

I feel sorry for the kid. There is NO WAY he knows about the 1710 act of whatever denying Catholics the crown on his own. I smell a pushy parent spoiling it for a young lad who, had he joined the cubs would most probably had a good time there, made some mates and maybe even learned some skills.

When I was 8 my biggest worry was how to get the playing card that rubbed against the spokes of my bike to stay on properly .. Clothes peg finally did it if your wondering.

How times change eh ??

C. 1960 I used a lollipop stick.

No oath no woggle - simps. I was a Wolf Cub...joined merely to turn out for the football team on the left-wing. Lack of decent service from the left half and inside left .... the silly games....the rather authoritarian rule of 'Arkayla' or wotever her name was made it a short term affair for me. I didn't get any badges.

Dib- Dib - Dob

[Cattach]

He's entitled to his free thought, and let him have it.

Let's put it this way, if you at age 8, having decided you didn't believe in God/religion etc, would you have turned up a church every year on the day of the prize giving/sunday school picnic expecting to take part? Would you then run to the papers about not being allowed to take part? I don't think so.

The boy has made his mind up that he doesn't agree with the cubs oath to the queen, because she is not catholic. He is therefore not allowed in the cubs.

If it was free thought you might have a very small point though even then I find this unacceptable. Sounds more like a parental view - a parent speaking through a child's month - a very frequent occurrence as teachers know!!

As someone else posted - if one cannot accept the rules one should not try to join the club.

[theone]

I agree with you 100%

[Anne x]

So why did this little Soul join the cubs ? would he not of been better joining another youth organisation
I remember my oath in the Girl Guides was one of the the biggest days in guiding when the horseshoe was formed you saluted and said your oath got your badge assigned a Patrol and on it went all part of guiding and the Boy Scouts

[northener]

......... parading around with a seven foot pike in medieval drag sounds a lot more fun than putting up tents in the rain and singing asinine songs round a camp-fire.

After spending several years in the British Civil War re-enactment society the 'Sealed Knot' (nothing to do with woggles, Metalattak:D), I can say that it is certainly more fun!

We still put up tents in the rain, but our songs were ...er..'interesting', especially after a night in the beer tent.