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Was walking the dog near to the airport ground near Ackergill and noticed a red airport vehicle with yellow flashing light. Then noticed a white bird, not seagull, making a strange noise, then a bang and a flash and the bird dropped from the sky. I was quite upset by this, Are airport staff allowed to shoot birds? I though this was quite dangerous. I would like to point out that there were no planes taking off or landing and it was 5.45pm.
Was walking the dog near to the airport ground near Ackergill and noticed a red airport vehicle with yellow flashing light. Then noticed a white bird, not seagull, making a strange noise, then a bang and a flash and the bird dropped from the sky. I was quite upset by this, Are airport staff allowed to shoot birds? I though this was quite dangerous. I would like to point out that there were no planes taking off or landing and it was 5.45pm.
I am an animal and bird lover but the choice is quite stark - dead bird or multiple deaths of peoplemen.
Fran,
Airports use all sorts of methods to scare birds, including shooting. They will have dispensations for protected species as well.
It is a very necessary activity for an airport, they wont like it any more than the rest of us, but the risk to life and safety is too great. A bird going down a jet intake, or striking the screen at take off speeds, can be quite disastrous.
Was walking the dog near to the airport ground near Ackergill and noticed a red airport vehicle with yellow flashing light. Then noticed a white bird, not seagull, making a strange noise, then a bang and a flash and the bird dropped from the sky. I was quite upset by this, Are airport staff allowed to shoot birds? I though this was quite dangerous. I would like to point out that there were no planes taking off or landing and it was 5.45pm.
Should you be walking a dog so near the Airport Runway,if it got loose on the runway the Airport Staff have the Right to Shoot it Dead in the interest of Airfield Safety this is covered by the Airfield Laws.
The airport staff are trained to shoot so i do not see what is Dangerous in this the only Danger is you being so close and all the land around the airport is Private and as far as i know there are NO dog walks there'
Boozeburglar
28-May-08, 11:17
I don't think Fran has suggested she was on the airport grounds.
There are cottages and such and paths near enough to have observed this event.
I walk my dogs on the road often enough, there does not have to be a designated dog walk. Did she say her dog was off the lead? Even if so, most dogs are well trained enough to observe the 'stay' command, or 'here' command.
I suppose the bird may have been nesting nearby and would have been around when planes were in operation. One would have thought they do not just shoot passing birds during non operational times.
Or maybe he took 'er out just for the crack!
Airport has a perimeter fence to keep out humans and most animals, I therefore imagine Fran was not on HIA territory but observed through the fence - are you now not allowed to walk (even without an animal) or go within sight on an airfield so you cannot observe what may or may not be happening?
Do not understand where exactly you are coming from.
No need to be on an airfield to see what is happening - unless they erect no see through fencing it is open to view usually - or be like Stornoway airport walk along the beach and accidentally find yourself on HIA territory, no fencing!!!!
Dog-eared
28-May-08, 11:32
There is no security fence around the runways.
no I was not on the runway. I was at the dental clinic at the business park near lochshell, which is all fenced off from the airport, and there were no trees for birds nesting and no planes arrived or took off during the 30 minutes i was walking there.If there was then i would have maybe understood, but one lone bird!! Later I was watching helicopters landing and taking off at the airport, plenty of pigeons etc there but none were shot.
There is no security fence around the runways.
There is fencing all around wick airport and runways
no I was not on the runway. I was at the dental clinic at the business park near lochshell, which is all fenced off from the airport, and there were no trees for birds nesting and no planes arrived or took off during the 30 minutes i was walking there.If there was then i would have maybe understood, but one lone bird!! Later I was watching helicopters landing and taking off at the airport, plenty of pigeons etc there but none were shot.
Wouldn't be a good idea to be using a firearm with aircraft landing or taking off. One reason why you saw no aircraft activity when you saw the bird shot, was that aircraft movements may have been temporally suspended while they were out on bird control duties.
Maybe the BCU was using a flare type of deterrent as Fran spotted a flash - not something you'd get from a shotgun? Or a R/C model just had an engine failure?
And I think the BCU would have plenty of time to sort out the problem at Wick without delaying incoming flights - not exactly Heathrow....
Margaret M.
28-May-08, 14:30
It would be justified if it was right before a takeoff or landing but a lone bird flying over and no flights arriving or leaving -- sounds like someone was shooting for the heck of it, pathetic. What do busy airports do that have flights arriving and leaving non-stop? When do they get out to shoot the birds?
Margaret,
They use many methods - habitat management, distress call tapes, audible scarers, falconery, visual deterrents and of course on occasion actually shooting birds.
All of the above fit in with the landings and take-offs rather than vice versa.
Margaret M.
28-May-08, 14:50
Thanks, MP, I had never really thought about the bird control problem that airports have to face.
as MP says all runways are checked before a plane lands also before they take off,having worked at belfast inter for umpteen yrs..it has to be done.and its very rare that they shoot..only if the scarers dont move them on..its a last resort.....
if there was a flash and a bang then it would have been just a bird scaring cartridge, my husband informs me that it sounds like a lapwing if it was making a funny noise and they tend to dive straight down when one of these is fired, so it seems like no birds wre being shot for the fun of it.
northener
28-May-08, 19:39
I'd agree with Charley9 on this, Fran. Lapwings make some very odd noises and dive/turn extremely quickly.
Why assume the person in the airport vehicle was actually doing something wrong?. They are all highly trained and professional people who would not do anything dangerous nor ilegal and the assumption should be they were doing what they are paid and trained to do, keeping Wick airport open and safe to use.
teddybear1873
28-May-08, 22:31
Was walking the dog near to the airport ground near Ackergill and noticed a red airport vehicle with yellow flashing light. Then noticed a white bird, not seagull, making a strange noise, then a bang and a flash and the bird dropped from the sky. I was quite upset by this, Are airport staff allowed to shoot birds? I though this was quite dangerous. I would like to point out that there were no planes taking off or landing and it was 5.45pm.
Maybe it was a plane not a bird.
DeHaviLand
28-May-08, 22:38
Should you be walking a dog so near the Airport Runway,if it got loose on the runway the Airport Staff have the Right to Shoot it Dead in the interest of Airfield Safety this is covered by the Airfield Laws.
The airport staff are trained to shoot so i do not see what is Dangerous in this the only Danger is you being so close and all the land around the airport is Private and as far as i know there are NO dog walks there'
You seem to be very keen on jumping on Fran for no apparent reason. If I remember correctly, you did the exact same on a recent thread about LPG :(
Maybe it was a plane not a bird.
No it was a bird, not a plane, and i was very near to it. It was nowhere near the actual runway or the airport, not in the way of planes landing and taking off. i'm sure it was killed as there was no noise after that. it just gave me a schock and seemed totally pointless to me.
No it was a bird, not a plane, and i was very near to it. It was nowhere near the actual runway or the airport, not in the way of planes landing and taking off. i'm sure it was killed as there was no noise after that. it just gave me a schock and seemed totally pointless to me.
Fran,
Thought I would post a couple of links to CAA documents that show how serious the industry take the issue.
The first link HERE (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ga_srg_07webSSL10.pdf) talks about the measures that pilots of small aircraft can take to avoid bird strikes.
The second link HERE (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP772.pdf) goes into detail about what what airport operators must do. It's a lengthy read, but if you have the time it may help explain the why's and wherefores, and hopefully gain your confidence that they are doing the right thing. Both documents are pdf's
Cheers
You seem to be very keen on jumping on Fran for no apparent reason. If I remember correctly, you did the exact same on a recent thread about LPG :(
Her Facts were Wrong about LPG and again her Facts Are Wrong about the Airport Staff Shooting Birds
Instead of speculating on a forum why not telephone Wick Airport and express your concerns, I'm sure they will explain the situation in full.
Margaret M.
29-May-08, 20:15
Her Facts were Wrong about LPG and again her Facts Are Wrong about the Airport Staff Shooting Birds
I just read the LPG thread and unless I misunderstood it, Fran was indeed Correct. I have read nothing on this thread to indicate that Fran has her facts wrong.
Was walking the dog near to the airport ground near Ackergill and noticed a red airport vehicle with yellow flashing light. Then noticed a white bird, not seagull, making a strange noise, then a bang and a flash and the bird dropped from the sky. I was quite upset by this, Are airport staff allowed to shoot birds? I though this was quite dangerous. I would like to point out that there were no planes taking off or landing and it was 5.45pm.
She was wrong Airport staff can shot Birds there was Nothing dangeroue about this Shooting as it was Controlled
Would that be the LPG thread that is now CLOSED?........
Margaret M.
29-May-08, 20:35
She was wrong Airport staff can shot Birds there was Nothing dangeroue about this Shooting as it was Controlled
Fran was puzzled as to why the bird had to be shot when there were no planes taking off or landing anywhere near the time of the shooting. How can her facts be wrong when she was asking a question?
Birds are often shot if they pose a hazard to aircraft.
If it had been building a nest next to a runway, then that it is a hazard. What's the problem? They were acting within the law and doing what they have to to ensure the safety of aircraft and passengers.
Her Facts were Wrong about LPG and again her Facts Are Wrong about the Airport Staff Shooting Birds
My facts were not wrong about the LPG, and my facts are not wrong here either as they are not "facts", just something which happened near to me, for no obvious reason, away from the runway, away from trees, that I was curious about and was asking on here to see if anyone else had seen something like this happen. I am fully aware that airport staff can shoot birds if they are in the way of aircraft, but in this case this one single bird was not near the runway and there were no planes landing or taking off in the 40 minutes that I was there.
She was wrong Airport staff can shot Birds there was Nothing dangeroue about this Shooting as it was Controlled
How do you know there was nothing dangerous about this situation or that it was controlled. You dont because you weren't there, I was.
Why assume the person in the airport vehicle was actually doing something wrong?. They are all highly trained and professional people who would not do anything dangerous nor ilegal and the assumption should be they were doing what they are paid and trained to do, keeping Wick airport open and safe to use.
...............................
Did I say the person in the vehichle was doing something wrong? No, I said I noticed the vehicle and that was what caught my attention in the first place. Nor did i say they were doing anything illegal etc etc.
I think this is another one of those threads that needs to close soon! :roll:
I think this is another one of those threads that needs to close soon! :roll:
Agreed, its going no where. I posted two links to the CAA web site. If the activity on Wick Airport still concerns anyone, they should should call the CAA direct. I feel this thread could show Wick Airport in a bad way, unjustly. If of course the Airport is doing something wrong, then the CAA are the appropriate people to deal with it.
Penelope Pitstop
30-May-08, 10:37
In my experience Wick airport staff are a highly trained bunch of professional lads and lassies....respect.
I don't think anyone on here is saying anything different. I don't believe anything about them is in doubt.
I understand this is a forum and everything is up for debate but some things could be solved or answered before the need to post on a public message board.
Instead of people speculating as to what happened why cant the thread starter contact Wick Airport (i've said this earlier) and ask why they were shooting the bird or birds and hopefully they will be able to answer your query once and for all??
Wish I had never mentioned this now, i was just curious. I would like to say that i have not actually accused airport staff of shooting the bird.
The airport vehicle caught my eye and that was why i looked in that direction and then I saw the bird. It could have been anyone, even a poacher. I was just a bit concerned that it was near to where i was in a public place not near to the actual airport and seemed very unnecessary.I hope this can be finished with now, as it started as a question and seems to have gone elsewhere now.
Are airport staff allowed to shoot birds? I though this was quite dangerous. I would like to point out that there were no planes taking off or landing and it was 5.45pm.
Fran,
I read your post as a question about pest control at airports and hopefully answered it accordingly. Not everyone is aware of the risks which birds can have on aircraft movements nor of the various techniques used to reduce or prevent such risks. Wick is pretty unique in that it is near to the coast and as such has some BIG birds in the area which adds to the problem.
You had a fair query and I am sure one or two other members have learnt a little more about the issue.
Fran,
Thought I would post a couple of links to CAA documents that show how serious the industry take the issue.
The first link HERE (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ga_srg_07webSSL10.pdf) talks about the measures that pilots of small aircraft can take to avoid bird strikes.
The second link HERE (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP772.pdf) goes into detail about what what airport operators must do. It's a lengthy read, but if you have the time it may help explain the why's and wherefores, and hopefully gain your confidence that they are doing the right thing. Both documents are pdf's
Cheers
Hi, I thought I would quote the section from the document in your second link which seems to summarise why a solitary bird may have been shot by staff. Hopefully this will answer Fran's query and settle down the argy-bargy that seems to have arisen:-
"3.3.4 Most shooting is carried out on an aerodrome as a last resort against intractable flocks to deal with an immediate problem, but shooting can also be integrated into a control
strategy to reinforce scaring action. If scaring is followed by an actual stressful event
such as shooting, birds learn to avoid the scarer more strongly. The effect may be
sustained even if shooting is only occasionally added because the birds may simply
react to the scaring signal alone and depart quickly.
3.3.5 Non-lethal control methods are limited and only partially successful on Pigeons and it
may be prudent to reinforce them with live shooting on aerodromes where Pigeons
are numerous. Wood pigeons, especially, are commonly shot in fields to protect crops
and, thus, are particularly responsive to shooting."
Did you break out in a cold sweat as you typed that? :D
Thankyou Scorrie for all your information which was very interesting. i was well aware about the shooting etc which needs to be done at airports.
But..it doesnt explain why one bird was shot, no where near the airport runway, but near a fence and the public, with no planes landing or taking off. Also, as I commented earlier, when I later went to the airport to watch helicopters taking off and lanign, there were a lot of birds especially pigeons about, but they were not shot.
I think its time to end this now, but I'm sure we have learnt a lot from all the threads here.
I have a friend who is a pilot with British airways, so I will ask him my original question.
Boozeburglar
01-Jun-08, 07:38
I understand this is a forum and everything is up for debate but some things could be solved or answered before the need to post on a public message board.
Instead of people speculating as to what happened why cant the thread starter contact Wick Airport (i've said this earlier) and ask why they were shooting the bird or birds and hopefully they will be able to answer your query once and for all??
Posing an interesting question is fair game for a message board; being as it is a conduit for information amongst everything else, (regardless of whether the question can be answered by other means).
What you are saying, in essence, is that you think it is not.
Your opinion, of course, is as valid as any.
I would have posted this thread. I would still have posted it had I spoken to staff at the airport and resolved the question part of it; because I would still find the events as described odd, and the general message board on a community forum is where odd belongs.
Each to their own. I enjoy hearing things like this, and I am glad Fran saw fit to share.
:)
Did you break out in a cold sweat as you typed that? :D
Who was this question for?
If it was aimed at me, the answer is no.
Thankyou Scorrie for all your information which was very interesting. i was well aware about the shooting etc which needs to be done at airports.
But..it doesnt explain why one bird was shot, no where near the airport runway, but near a fence and the public, with no planes landing or taking off. Also, as I commented earlier, when I later went to the airport to watch helicopters taking off and lanign, there were a lot of birds especially pigeons about, but they were not shot.
I think its time to end this now, but I'm sure we have learnt a lot from all the threads here.
I have a friend who is a pilot with British airways, so I will ask him my original question.
I thought it explained it well. Basically, they try scaring birds, then kill one to show other birds that the scare noise can mean death. If you are seeing lots of birds about at take-off, it surely means that scare tactics are NOT working. Hence the need to re-enforce the message by taking some birds out. It is surely safer to shoot into the air when take off and landing of aircraft is not about to happen. At the end of the day, the staff have a licence to kill in the interest of safety. I am sure most passengers in an aircraft would prefer that the risk to their lives was minimised, ahead of protecting the bird.
Who was this question for?
If it was aimed at me, the answer is no.
Just typing/posting the bit about bird control with a username of "scorrie"...
Never mind - just thought it faintly amusing.
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