How can these things keep happening?

[unicorn]

Time and time again we hear of horror stories of abuse and neglect and the authorities waste tens of thousands investigating the system, yet time and time again it fails.
How can a 7 year old die of starvation in the UK and have 5 siblings in a dire state and nobody notices?
This just makes me furious.
These children are being failed by all not just their supposed carers.
It is high time people spoke out for these kids if they suspect something is wrong and dont just expect someone else to.
http://www.orange.co.uk/news/topstories/28843.htm?linkfrom=hp3&link=ticker_pos_1_link_1&article=index

[_Ju_]

That was so difficult to read. How can they have been at school and no one noticed? How can a person have kept silent if suspicious? Nowadays people are very worried about intervening with children, maybe because people feel it's so easy to twist things around, with them ending up suspect of worse..... the "civilised" world has become one of self centerdness.

[Anne x]

Time and time again we hear of horror stories of abuse and neglect and the authorities waste tens of thousands investigating the system, yet time and time again it fails.
How can a 7 year old die of starvation in the UK and have 5 siblings in a dire state and nobody notices?
This just makes me furious.
These children are being failed by all not just their supposed carers.
It is high time people spoke out for these kids if they suspect something is wrong and dont just expect someone else to.
http://www.orange.co.uk/news/topstories/28843.htm?linkfrom=hp3&link=ticker_pos_1_link_1&article=index


Even the Newsreaders tonight were visibly upset reading the story 21st century Britain eh In my opinion they should be charged with manslaughter at least just so awful and so very sad

[unicorn]

I don't understand how the neighbour who put bread out for the birds and thinks the children were eating didn't notice, children close to starvation would be hard to miss if they were out and about.
All the stories of people who have survived horrendous childhoods that I have ever read, each one said the hunger was the very hardest thing to live with as the pain is always there eating away at you.
In my opinion it is murder they should be charged with, this poor child and her siblings did not choose to starve themselves it was up to the resoponsible adults in their lives to ensure they had food.
I hope these children get a fresh start in life all together and not split up around the country and they get the love and care that every child should has a born right to receive.
As for their carers I hope when they get put into prison they wont be seperated from all the other inmates as they will pay for their horrendous crimes then.

[The Angel Of Death]

Because its the world we live in now basically if you show any interest in a child or a child's welfare a lot of the time your labeled as a kiddie fiddler

How many blokes have looked at the crying lost kid in the street and thought twice about helping because crying distressed child + bloke = you know how peoples minds work

Or the other side of the coin is where this is brought to the attention of the authorities and either something or nothing is done than your the bad person for reporting it in the first place you just cant seem to win these days

[YummyMummy]

This is such a tragedy. Victoria Climbie was starved and tortured to death just 7 years ago and to hear of another child die of forced starvation is an absolute disgrace.

The adult carers should be tried for murder and neglect, but society has also failed these children. Where are their neighbours? It was a terraced house on what looks like a busy street. Where are the extended family? A family with 6 children and no one seeing this little one for over 5 months? And, what about the school and nursery? If a child’s not at school in all that time, what is going on?

I think we all have a responsibility to look out for children. I always intervene – even if it means I get a bit of flack. I think the comment made about people being anxious about intervening these days is largely unfounded. No professional would accuse anyone falsely when they are made aware of the circumstances, and folk can call child protection agencies and remain anonymous. They have a duty to act regardless of the source of the referral. That is what they are collecting their salaries for at the end of each month – it’s their job.

My heart goes out to these little ones and may the little girl that suffered so much finally rest in peace.

[Dreamweaver]

Child protection is EVERYONE'S responsibility. If you ever suspect a child of being abused in any way you should contact social services. Write or telephone - it can be anonymous. You might save someone's life.

[Venture]

These children were taken out of school 10 weeks ago and have only had one visit from an educational social worker with no follow-up from any other department. They all lived in a two bedroomed house. As for the aunt who suddenly popped up yesterday, having not seen them for a year, well I don't have any words suitable to put on here to describe her. These children were not only let down by the state but their neighbours and relatives as well. Shocking in this day and age.

[YummyMummy]

These children were taken out of school 10 weeks ago and have only had one visit from an educational social worker with no follow-up from any other department. They all lived in a two bedroomed house. As for the aunt who suddenly popped up yesterday, having not seen them for a year, well I don't have any words suitable to put on here to describe her. These children were not only let down by the state but their neighbours and relatives as well. Shocking in this day and age.


That's shocking - these people should be held to account.

[unicorn]

I read a quote that said they need to be harder on people who take kids out of school????????
I say no they need to be harder on the incompetent person who should have followed this case up, as usual the buck is being passed rapidly. [evil]

[YummyMummy]

I read a quote that said they need to be harder on people who take kids out of school????????
I say no they need to be harder on the incompetent person who should have followed this case up, as usual the buck is being passed rapidly. [evil]

Couldn't agree more.

After the death of Rory Blackhall (the lad who was killed having never made it to school in West Lothian), the authorities both north and south of the border tightened their guidelines to ensure that children that are out of school for any length of time are highlighted very quickly and monitored closely. So, had procedures been followed properly, these children should have been brought to the attention of the services in a relatively short space of time.

[percy toboggan]

I'm afraid many of the ills besetting this society today are resultant from an open door immigration policy which has been finely tuned by the present New Labour Government. If it's not physical child abuse then it's violence on the streets.

Our imperialistic past has left us paying a heavy toll.

Quite how we are ever to resolve this problem - which is becoming ever more disproportionate is beyond me, for the time being at least.

[Stargazer]

I'm afraid many of the ills besetting this society today are resultant from an open door immigration policy which has been finely tuned by the present New Labour Government. If it's not physical child abuse then it's violence on the streets.

Our imperialistic past has left us paying a heavy toll.

Quite how we are ever to resolve this problem - which is becoming ever more disproportionate is beyond me, for the time being at least.


Utter Rubbish.

[percy toboggan]

Utter Rubbish.

I agree. We are importing so much of it, that when added to our own home produced rubbish we might well end up overwhelmed by it.

[Stargazer]

I agree. We are importing so much of it, that when added to our own home produced rubbish we might well end up overwhelmed by it.


Your quote is rubbish. Don't twist my words.

[unicorn]

Percy neither race, creed,colour nor religion is of any importance in this thread. What upsets me is that every child has the right to be protected and the system has failed these children terribly and possibly many others are being failed at this moment.
So take the race card elsewhere.

[justine]

no race is not an issue. The mother is british by birth and her kids are too, the stepfather is of different race, but the child and children are exactly what they are, children who deserve to the right to live and not be put through an ordeal like this. Some mentioned how this went unnoticed but it was not, nieghbours spotted the children out in the garden fighting for food that was thrown out for the birds..That neighbour could have stopped this if they decided to report it but the fear of sticking their nose into other business is the one factor why they didnot...Bull, any abuse should be reported to atleast one authority..This is just sheer neglect and both should be punished severley and hopefully many lessons will be learnt by this, but then lessons could have been learnt of many other neglect cases before..and were not..

[Stargazer]

Percy neither race, creed,colour nor religion is of any importance in this thread. What upsets me is that every child has the right to be protected and the system has failed these children terribly and possibly many others are being failed at this moment.
So take the race card elsewhere.


Well said.

[helenwyler]

I'm afraid many of the ills besetting this society today are resultant from an open door immigration policy


Exactly what are you implying when you associate this case with an "open door immigration policy"?

That a white British woman could have all her moral and instinctual maternal values totally erased, merely by consorting with a Muslim?

That Islam permits or at least condones child abuse and murder?

That if the mother had married a white British guy this wouldn’t have happened?

Had you been suggesting that the neighbours and social workers were less vigilant and responsive because the children were mixed race/religion, that would have been a point worth discussing. But you weren't.

Your anti-immigration views are well known to those of us who have been on the board a while. But this post takes the biscuit for absurd blanket statements and scapegoatism. [evil]

[Angela]

I'm afraid many of the ills besetting this society today are resultant from an open door immigration policy which has been finely tuned by the present New Labour Government. If it's not physical child abuse then it's violence on the streets.

Our imperialistic past has left us paying a heavy toll.

Quite how we are ever to resolve this problem - which is becoming ever more disproportionate is beyond me, for the time being at least.

Would you like explain the reasoning behind this this piece of woolly waffle, percy? :roll:

Is your point that this child's stepfather has been solely responsible for this appalling case of child cruelty? As far as I'm aware -and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong! -the child's mother, father and aunt are not immigrants. Child abuse is certainly not confined to the immigrant population.

Is your point that an immigrant population is changing everyone's behaviour in a detrimental way ?

Or that people choose to tiptoe round a problem family if they are not 100% White British? I'd agree that this does sometimes appear to be the case.

Child cruelty, abuse and neglect is nothing new in this country though, and recent cases in the news both here and abroad such as the Shannon Matthews case and the Josef Fritzl case in Austria do not involve immigrant families.

To me the most important issue is why people -both neighbours and people in positions of authority- either had no suspicions about this family, or did not act on their suspicions because of fear or indifference.

There is a sense nowadays that you're damned if you 'interfere' and damned if you don't. I couldn't imagine turning a blind eye if I believed any child was in danger and to me that's certainly the most relevant issue worth debating.

[balto]

[evil]this story is just heartbreaking, so many vunrable children slip through the net, just hope this little girls siblings have a better life now away from the people who were ment to care for them..

[unicorn]

There is actually a poster in the doctors surgery that struck a chord with me a few months ago it is a picture of a boy huddled on the floor of a phine box in the rain and it says "he cant tell anyone his mum's too drunk to look after him but you can" There should be more of these on display in nursery's schools and anywhere that they will be seen by adults and children alike.

[percy toboggan]

[quote=helenwyler;387265]Exactly what are you implying when you associate this case with an "open door immigration policy"?

Forgive me if I'm wrong but the question asked was not solely about 'this case' Helen....my supposition suggests that as the population increases un-naturally with influxes from the four corners of the globe then people with dubious parenting skills and a propensity towards criminality are bound to be coming in with the rest of 'em.

That a white British woman could have all her moral and instinctual maternal values totally erased, merely by consorting with a Muslim?

I don't know the answer. The woman in this case is not white.

That Islam permits or at least condones child abuse and murder?

No, I don't think it does at all.

That if the mother had married a white British guy this wouldn’t have happened?
Probably not. I cannot recall a case of a white British man starving a child to death...can you?

Had you been suggesting that the neighbours and social workers were less vigilant and responsive because the children were mixed race/religion, that would have been a point worth discussing. But you weren't.

The area is Handsworth. It consists of communities & groups from all races and religions who tend to keep themselves to themselves. I do suggest Social Workers were more reluctant to get involved for fear of upsetting religious and racial sensitivities yes!! that's exactly what I suggest, and it's the fault of the absurd practice of head in the sand reaction to a swarm of newcomers with unusual cultural practices.
Like killing their daughters because they won't submit to forced marriage etc. etc.We mustn't offend 'em though ...oh no!

Your anti-immigration views are well known to those of us who have been on the board a while. But this post takes the biscuit for absurd blanket statements and scapegoatism. [evil]

Mines a custard cream please Helen, and before you lambast me for making a few crumbs here are some more...this despicable case belongs in the same bin as the child trafficking for domestic slavery...the young women from Eastern Europe who are forced into sex-slavery in Britain...the headless, limbless torso of the black kid found in the River Thames....the fanatics who have duped a simple bloke in Devon to carry their nail bombs for them...Remember Victoria Climbie...for she was another one who deserved better...I won't mention the link. In fact it ranks as the most heinous among many 'out-of-national-character' crimes that are being carried out in Britain by recent immigrants of all races.From Turkish drugrunners in North London to organised Asian groomers of adolescent white girls in post industrial West Yorkshire towns If you doubt my words watch 'Crimewatch' sometime...I stopped years ago because it became all too depressing.

[helenwyler]

[quote=helenwyler;387265]Exactly what are you implying when you associate this case with an "open door immigration policy"?

Forgive me if I'm wrong but the question asked was not solely about 'this case' Helen....my supposition suggests that as the population increases un-naturally with influxes from the four corners of the globe then people with dubious parenting skills and a propensity towards criminality are bound to be coming in with the rest of 'em.

Of course some will have criminal tendencies. White Brits are not the only race to breed the whole spectrum of criminality.

That a white British woman could have all her moral and instinctual maternal values totally erased, merely by consorting with a Muslim?

I don't know the answer. The woman in this case is not white.

If she is not white, then I apologise....to her. She has a very British name.


That if the mother had married a white British guy this wouldn’t have happened?
Probably not. I cannot recall a case of a white British man starving a child to death...can you?

Not starving a child to death, no. But abuse and murder, yes.

Mines a custard cream please Helen, and before you lambast me for making a few crumbs here are some more...this despicable case belongs in the same bin as the child trafficking for domestic slavery...the young women from Eastern Europe who are forced into sex-slavery in Britain...the headless, limbless torso of the black kid found in the River Thames....the fanatics who have duped a simple bloke in Devon to carry their nail bombs for them...Remember Victoria Climbie...for she was another one who deserved better...I won't mention the link. In fact it ranks as the most heinous among many 'out-of-national-character' crimes that are being carried out in Britain by recent immigrants of all races.From Turkish drugrunners in North London to organised Asian groomers of adolescent white girls in post industrial West Yorkshire towns If you doubt my words watch 'Crimewatch' sometime...I stopped years ago because it became all too depressing.

You've had a field day here. Are you expecting me to condone all these dreadful acts because they were perpetrated by immigrants? I hate these crimes as much as you do.

And I said your original post was 'taking the biscuit'...I was not offering you one!

[percy toboggan]

[quote=percy toboggan;387449]

You've had a field day here. Are you expecting me to condone all these dreadful acts because they were perpetrated by immigrants? I hate these crimes as much as you do.

And I said your original post was 'taking the biscuit'...I was not offering you one!






Ahh,
I used the biscuit theme...and the custard cream in an attempt to introduce just a little humour here Helen. Perhaps inducing a half-smile to your concerned countenance. A drinks too wet without one, but if your biscuit barrel is out of bounds for me I'll just have to lump it.

You're always assured of a Rich Abernethy, or indeed a chocolate Bourbon here at Toboggan Towers...civility costs little even if the price of a biscuit is climbing almost daily.

[helenwyler]

[quote=helenwyler;387541]

Ahh,
I used the biscuit theme...and the custard cream in an attempt to introduce just a little humour here Helen. Perhaps inducing a half-smile to your concerned countenance. A drinks too wet without one, but if your biscuit barrel is out of bounds for me I'll just have to lump it.

You're always assured of a Rich Abernethy, or indeed a chocolate Bourbon here at Toboggan Towers...civility costs little even if the price of a biscuit is climbing almost daily.

My quip about the biscuits was an attempt at humour too....perhaps I should have used an emoticon ;).

I doubt my countenance is any more concerned than yours, percy. You do often "induce a half-smile" :eek:!

[percy toboggan]

[quote=percy toboggan;387545]

My quip about the biscuits was an attempt at humour too....perhaps I should have used an emoticon ;).

I doubt my countenance is any more concerned than yours, percy. You do often "induce a half-smile" :eek:!

Then I must try harder Helen.:cool:

[SunnyChick]

How does a thread about a neglected, and now dead child turn into a heated discussion about migrants? eh?

Let's not get carried away and forget the subject..

A beautiful, innocent child has died because she was let down by everyone around her... the people closest to her, her school, the local authorities, whoever. It's a crying shame, and totally unacceptable.

Poor girl. I wish someone could have come forward and got help for her.

Makes my heart break.

[percy toboggan]

[quote=SunnyChick;387781]How does a thread about a neglected, and now dead child turn into a heated discussion about migrants? eh?

quote]
Very easily.

Many threads can veer off at a tangent...but sometimes there is a link...which requires an open mind to ponder and not a little candour to suggest.
How long can we dwell upon the life and death of one unfortunate child without searching for reasons and asking ourselves why things like this still happen in these islands?

By all means wait for the outcome of any legal proceedings but in the meantime speculation on this one sad case is nothing more than conjecture.

Of course if we all want to post 'how dreadful' or have a group cyber hug in an effort to ameliorate this awful event then that's fine...just count me out.

[_Ju_]

Last summers flooding is probably due to Britains open door immigration policy that is leading to certains parts of the land sinking below what is normal water shed levels. That or the higher density of population producing more vapor in their breath, leading to cloud formation and precipitation......

How sad that anyone can look at a case like this and place blame not because a mother failed her duty of care but because they were the "wrong color" or from the "wrong place". Not that it is relevant, but irrespective of their parents and grandparents status, Percy, those children who were starved and abused were not even immigrants, so even in your "special" world, they were of the same "status" and had the same "rights" as any child born here.

[percy toboggan]

Last summers flooding is probably due to Britains open door immigration policy that is leading to certains parts of the land sinking below what is normal water shed levels. That or the higher density of population producing more vapor in their breath, leading to cloud formation and precipitation......

How sad that anyone can look at a case like this and place blame not because a mother failed her duty of care but because they were the "wrong color" or from the "wrong place". Not that it is relevant, but irrespective of their parents and grandparents status, Percy, those children who were starved and abused were not even immigrants, so even in your "special" world, they were of the same "status" and had the same "rights" as any child born here.

Ju, your response started off in la-la land and it appears that's where you are happiest. The fate of the kids is open to question as the facts have yet to emerge. From where I sit I look at the all too familiar story of uncivilised behaviour in a so called civilised country. Whosoever perpetrates offences like these do not deserve the protection of yooman rights laws....but you'd probably take exception to that as well. Let's face it...you're one of those hand wringing do-gooder types who give a green light to the political half-wits who have lead this country down a road leading nowhere except the multi-cult so beloved of folk like you. We're poles apart....but let's leave them out of it eh?....many of them are heading home anyway now the zlotys climbing against the pound.
I've not heard of a Pole starving their child to death either...one wonders what the creep Abuhamza and the woman we laughingly call a mother were doing with their child benefit money.
Answers on a Giro.....

[Neil Howie]

Picking up 3 random previous (scottish) cases, a common thread emerges.

2003 - They failed - he died (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/edinburgh/They-failed--he-died.2468618.jp)


"They really do need to get their heads together to ensure nothing like this ever happens again. Lessons have got to be learned. Elected members weren’t told anything about this until it went to court. The worry must be that there are others like it in the system." -
In light of the report published on Thursday which found fault at "every level" within the social work department and NHS Lothian in Caleb’s case,


2002 Look that signalled baby’s anguish (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/aberdeen/Look-that-signalled-babys-anguish.2360331.jp)


Mr King was giving evidence at the High Court in Stonehaven on the second day of the trial of Andrea Bone, 20, and Alexander McClure, 27, who are charged with murdering Bone’s 13 month-old daughter, Carla-Nicole Bone.

The baby’s grandmother also told the trial how she contacted the social services because of her concerns about the little girl's welfare and neighbours also spoke of how they had been left shocked and angered at the couple's treatment of the "pale and thin" infant.

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/aberdeen/Look-that-signalled-babys-anguish.2360331.jp

1996 - Father guilty of killing his two babies (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland/Father-guilty-of-killing-his.2348009.jp)

During the trial, Mr Findlay was scathing in his criticism of the Dumfries and Galloway social work department. He said Metcalfe and Ms Lockerbie had been keen to accept an offer of help , but it took four weeks for a social worker to visit them - and the help provided amounted to " next to none." He added: "The social work department let them down very badly."

[Oddquine]

I'm afraid many of the ills besetting this society today are resultant from an open door immigration policy which has been finely tuned by the present New Labour Government. If it's not physical child abuse then it's violence on the streets.

Our imperialistic past has left us paying a heavy toll.

Quite how we are ever to resolve this problem - which is becoming ever more disproportionate is beyond me, for the time being at least.

Nope............the problem is that the liberal left has taken over the aspects of government which actually impact on the well being of the individual where it matters.

The government happily legislates for those parts of life which come down to personal choice, like obesity, smoking, drug taking, alcoholism etc..............but fail to do anything at all about ensuring that the public servants we pay for actually do the job they are paid to do.

It is about time that there were definite systems set up to deal with all possibilities in protecting children.....with sanctions for failing.

I'm of the opinion that, if Social services are involved, by anyone for any reason, then they should investigate and err on the side of caution.

If they are wrong, then they can apologise..........but if they are right, then a child's life may be saved.

I'd rather have apologies by the million than a child damaged by their neglect.

[scorrie]

A couple of facts that I gleaned when finding it impossible to get help for my father, who was suffering from Alzheimers:-

1. You cannot get help from a Social Worker on a Saturday or Sunday.
2. You cannot see your GP on a Saturday or Sunday.

OK, what next?

You are offered an appointment with the acting GP, who covers Saturday and Sunday. Fine, what do they tell you?

Answer?

"Wait till Monday and make an appointment with your Dad's GP or Social Worker"

Great!! Only thing is, my Dad has been threating me with violence and talking about throwing himself in the harbour.

Temporary GP's advice was:- "Put a lock on your bedroom door"

People without a clue, getting paid a fortune to talk nonsense!!

I was told that it would have been better if we had told the authorities that my Dad needed help, at least 3 months before he needed help!!

Well, pardon me for not being Nostradamus!!

A Doctor could not see that my Dad needed help, when he already DID need it, yet I was supposed to let them know three months before that!!

I had actually told them about a month earlier that he needed help, yet they disagreed/passed the buck.

No wonder poor kids are allowed to suffer. At our most basic level, we are a five days a week society. The middle finger is raised to anyone who gets serious problems out-with the 9-5/ Monday to Friday time-scale. If we cannot master that impasse, how can we be expected to see those who "watch over" us fully embrace the concept of necessity over convenience?

[padfoot]

I'm afraid many of the ills besetting this society today are resultant from an open door immigration policy which has been finely tuned by the present New Labour Government. If it's not physical child abuse then it's violence on the streets.

Our imperialistic past has left us paying a heavy toll.

Quite how we are ever to resolve this problem - which is becoming ever more disproportionate is beyond me, for the time being at least.

and i happen to have read lots of storys about white brittish males who have done child abuse and killed there children i fail to see where imigrants can be blamed for that




and as for brittish male not starving there children altho you may not recall any there are more than enough im sure



here is one case where brittish parents starved there child to death
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1025946/Parents-let-porcelain-doll-girl-3-starve-death-filthy-beetle-infested-room.html

[squidge]

Society's ill today are caused by a breakdown in social structures, significantly the extended family. People live in isolation, no one talks to each other, no one goes around for coffee, we expect social workers health visitors and other professionals to do the job that mothers, aunties and sisters once did. Its not going to happen, either they dont care enough, or they care but arent resourced enough, or they are hand tied by a management who doesnt understand or care the way they need to. Social Workers arent trusted, family courts in england are held in secret and there is some suggestion that local authorities there are arranging adoptions against the best interests off the children concerned to qualify for bonus payments for adoptions set by our stupid government.

Years ago if something wasnt right there were plenty of people to step in and deal with things. Today some parents dont see people from one day to the next. We see a dirty uncared for child we tut and go on our way doing nothing about it until its too late and then everyone wants to get on telly. Some people's lives are chaotic to the point of well.. i dunno. We arent supposed to say we cant cope. Departments dont talk to each other and information gets lost. Are we surprised when some lives get lost too along the way.

I have no solutions but a start is to get to know your neighbours and their children and try to remember that we ALL have a responsibilty to ALL children.