View Full Version : Education - meet the men to blame!
Hi everyone,
I've just discovered that tomorrow's Highland Council Thurso Ward Forum is on EDUCATION!! (That's 7pm, Tuesday 20th May at Mount Pleasant Primary School.)
It's got to be Highland Council's best kept secret yet that their Director of Education, Hugh Fraser, is coming up from Inverness specially to meet us Thurso folk (if we turn up at this practically unadvertised public meeting!) and our local Area Service Manager, Graham Nichols, will also be there, to answer all our questions on EDUCATION. All in front of our three good councillors - our elected representatives & Mr Fraser's bosses - so no room for the officials to squirm out of this potentially tricky spot.
So, all you guys who post about school cutbacks and diminishing budgets wanting answers, now's your chance - perhaps your one and only chance - to ask those difficult questions face to face with the men who make all those decisions.
It's open to the public - so I'll expect to see all you parents of school-age children there, and all you teachers and school staff who are having to magic an education out of thin air - everyone is most welcome.
7pm, Mount Pleasant Primary School - look forward to seeing you all there!
AfternoonDelight
19-May-08, 17:25
I did see this advertised somewhere - I think it was on the org...
Best thing to do though - go and heckle them!! :)
I hate it when you hear/read people complaining about stuff but when they actually get a chance to voice their opinions at a meeting they can't be bothered going.
hope there a good turnout to let them be aware education is a high priority in Caithness and action needs to be taken about the condition of the schools
You're right, Pat, but judging by the scant response to this thread, I wonder if anyone can be bothered to stand up and be counted.... or perhaps you're all completely satisfied with the education system as it stands?:(
Sapphire2803
20-May-08, 10:34
I'll stand up and be counted until I'm blue in the face, but I very much doubt that I'll make it to Thurso tonight :(
You're right, Pat, but judging by the scant response to this thread, I wonder if anyone can be bothered to stand up and be counted.... or perhaps you're all completely satisfied with the education system as it stands?:(
Sad to say tootler, as Ive found out myself with threads about Wick High School, you do get very little response. Mind you Ward Forums are usually well attended and you may get people taking the opportunity to bring things up re education if they are there on the night for another reason. The good thing is these Forums are attended by the press so it will give you an opportunity to have your concerns reported on either in the Groat/Courier or P & J. I hope your meeting goes well.
You're right, Pat, but judging by the scant response to this thread, I wonder if anyone can be bothered to stand up and be counted.... or perhaps you're all completely satisfied with the education system as it stands?:(
Problem is that if you are employed by Highland Council you cannot stand up and be counted! Unfortunately many employees in education have been gagged lately!!
Yes, Blackcat, you're right. I'll just add gagging of teachers & head teachers to the long list of topics I'm hoping to raise tonight with the Director of Education!
cuddlepop
20-May-08, 16:02
Yes, Blackcat, you're right. I'll just add gagging of teachers & head teachers to the long list of topics I'm hoping to raise tonight with the Director of Education!
This will affect people in your area too ,so could you please ask how they hope to deliver Additional Support Needs with a reduction of 1% to the budget and an increased need.:confused
The Big Man's no speaking to me.;)
This will affect people in your area too ,so could you please ask how they hope to deliver Additional Support Needs with a reduction of 1% to the budget and an increased need.:confused
The Big Man's no speaking to me.;)
Tell me more, Cuddlepop, how did you hear about this cut in services? I have a special interest in ASN services - I didn't think they could cut much more than they have already!!
Tell me more, Cuddlepop, how did you hear about this cut in services? I have a special interest in ASN services - I didn't think they could cut much more than they have already!!
Axing of the School Library Service (SLS) will also impact on ASN as they provided resources for teachers/schools. SLS is a frontline service being treated as a backroom service!
Mr P Cannop
20-May-08, 18:28
will there be any agendas and or meeting papers for this meeting ??
cuddlepop
20-May-08, 18:51
Tell me more, Cuddlepop, how did you hear about this cut in services? I have a special interest in ASN services - I didn't think they could cut much more than they have already!!
go to the agenda for Education,Culture and Sport meeting this week and under revenue you'll find all the info .:D
Mr P Cannop
20-May-08, 21:47
Just back from the thurso Ward Forum whats your news and views from the meeting also who all went to this meeting ??
What happened at tonights meeting?
What happened at tonights meeting?
The Council and Education representative's spouted there usual guff, soundbites about the regions finances, (they're in good shape, blame media scaremongering), we want,(know),what's best for the kids,(not you), and for parent's not to worry.
The parent's are still disillusioned.
I wasn't at the meeting,( I live in England),however what I've said above is what is usually fed to us by any official body up and down the land.
By the way, before someone attack's me for my cheap shot's about the meeting, my son attends Pennyland Primary so I do care about the standard of education in Caithness.
The Council and Education representative's spouted there usual guff, soundbites about the regions finances, (they're in good shape, blame media scaremongering), we want,(know),what's best for the kids,(not you), and for parent's not to worry.
The parent's are still disillusioned.
Scary psychic stuff for someone that didn't even go to the meeting - well done, Joxville, nearly all right!
"Usual guff" - yes, said with what appeared to be genuine enthusiasm for education and committement to our children's future.
"Soundbites about finances" - yes, but interestingly all 3 men in suits freely admitted that there were severe cuts being made in order to meet financial targets and there will be no new money this year, or the next, or for the foreseeable... if a few kids slip through the net and don't get an education because Highland Council can't afford it, well, that's just life, apparently.
"Parents still disillusioned" - well, that's the worrying bit - these guys were so convincing that many in the room will have been reassured.
Mr Fraser even went so far as to state categorically as a matter of public record that his staff are not gagged in any way (a friendly teacher in the audience confessed afterwards that no staff in the room were brave enough to contradict him only because the gagging's so effective!) So I went home to look it up on t'internet & found this
(Cut & pasted from www.highland.gov (http://www.highland.gov/) - with underlining added by me - for "The Board", read "The senior management and line managers of Highland Council"):
"YOUR RIGHTS AS AN EMPLOYEE
Public Statements
As a citizen, you are entitled to express your views about the Board, provided you do not
make use of any private information gained through your work with the Board. But you
should not, in your work capacity, or as a result of your employment relationship, criticise the
Board either through the media or at a public meeting, or in any written communication with
members of the public.
Access to your Councillor
As a citizen, you are entitled to raise with your Councillor any complaint which you have
about the Services of the Board. If your complaint concerns any aspect of your employment
with the Board, you should, however, raise this with your line manager or where appropriate
use the Board's Grievance Procedure or Harassment Policy."
So it seems HC staff are actually not allowed to speak out either at public meetings or direct to councillors - despite Mr Fraser stating the direct opposite at this public meeting. Worrying. No wonder the parents and councillors are so easily lulled by the officials - the staff on the ground have a 1984-like policy written into their contracts - you just can't criticize the system...or else...
I've alerted our local councillors to this worrying state of affairs, which is a fact, not just gossip, and I'm leaving it safe in their hands to sort it out.
"Soundbites about finances" - yes, but interestingly all 3 men in suits freely admitted that there were severe cuts being made in order to meet financial targets and there will be no new money this year, or the next, or for the foreseeable... if a few kids slip through the net and don't get an education because Highland Council can't afford it, well, that's just life, apparently.
If they opt for Gaelic Medium, no doubt, the Council will be able to afford what ever their parents want?!
Anyone know how many children will be starting in the Gaelic Medium class in Pennyland after the summer holidays?
Just back from the thurso Ward Forum whats your news and views from the meeting also who all went to this meeting ??
What are your views on last nights meeting?
cuddlepop
21-May-08, 08:53
The really worrying thing tootler is that these "men is suits " actually believe the guff there spouting and have a way of brain washing the underlines that they are right and we are wrong.
Even some off our councillors are influenced.
I've actually seen perfectly "normal rational" people change after they've been employed by the council for any lenght of time.They become clones of the system that employes them and if their thinking cannot or will not be altered their ostracized.:~(
Until you have people in your community that can uncover their real truths,like they did in Lochaber,HC will continue to walk all over us.[disgust]
The really worrying thing tootler is that these "men is suits " actually believe the guff there spouting and have a way of brain washing the underlines that they are right and we are wrong.
Even some off our councillors are influenced.
I've actually seen perfectly "normal rational" people change after they've been employed by the council for any lenght of time.They become clones of the system that employes them and if their thinking cannot or will not be altered their ostracized.:~(
Until you have people in your community that can uncover their real truths,like they did in Lochaber,HC will continue to walk all over us.[disgust]
'Parent Power' is what is required - but if they can't be informed because of 'gagging' what can be done? Our councillors have to be more active in searching for the truth. 'Gags' must be removed!!http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon9.gif
cuddlepop
21-May-08, 10:25
'Parent Power' is what is required - but if they can't be informed because of 'gagging' what can be done? Our councillors have to be more active in searching for the truth. 'Gags' must be removed!!http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon9.gif
Parent Power is useless without the backing of Councillors and HC employees.
HC attitude is if you dont like it just move and if we cant accommodate your child in mainstream education then we'll make them an Out of Authority Placement.
Thats why that budget was millions overspent last year.[evil]
Parent Power is useless without the backing of Councillors and HC employees.
HC attitude is if you dont like it just move and if we cant accommodate your child in mainstream education then we'll make them an Out of Authority Placement.
Thats why that budget was millions overspent last year.[evil]
How can HC Employees speak out when 'gagged' by employment conditions?? Councillors could do more but most are going along with the 'partyline'.
http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon9.gif
The heartening thing, if you read their "code of conduct" carefully, is that HC employees are actually allowed to speak privately to individuals about their work (so long as that individual is, ironically, not a councillor!) And then the individuals they speak to (that's you) can choose to alert councillors / media / other parents to the issues.
A good example would be two recently proposed policies which I've heard privately from teachers have been imposed without consultation:
- p1's are going to have to spend whole days at school from day one next term, instead of the usual half days for a few weeks to wean them into the system. No teacher I've discussed this with thinks this is a good idea, and no teacher I've spoken to has been consulted. But they'll have to do it anyway because they've been told to & they are not allowed to disobey HC policy.
- Gaelic is to be gradually introduced as an element of the curriculum into all Highland schools. Again, Caithness teachers find this proposal ridiculous but are powerless to do anything about it.
If you want to find out what's going on, just ask a friendly teacher and reassure them that the Big Man, Mr Fraser, has said publicly that they're not gagged - and remind them that, even officially, it's only to councillors, to the media and at public meetings that they are banned from speaking out against HC policies, NOT in private conversations with parents.
Then you do the shouting, if you can be bothered -frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of being the messenger, so I've asked the councillors to review this ridiculous gagging clause in their employees' contracts to save us all the job!
The heartening thing, if you read their "code of conduct" carefully, is that HC employees are actually allowed to speak privately to individuals about their work (so long as that individual is, ironically, not a councillor!) And then the individuals they speak to (that's you) can choose to alert councillors / media / other parents to the issues.
A good example would be two recently proposed policies which I've heard privately from teachers have been imposed without consultation:
- p1's are going to have to spend whole days at school from day one next term, instead of the usual half days for a few weeks to wean them into the system. No teacher I've discussed this with thinks this is a good idea, and no teacher I've spoken to has been consulted. But they'll have to do it anyway because they've been told to & they are not allowed to disobey HC policy.
- Gaelic is to be gradually introduced as an element of the curriculum into all Highland schools. Again, Caithness teachers find this proposal ridiculous but are powerless to do anything about it.
If you want to find out what's going on, just ask a friendly teacher and reassure them that the Big Man, Mr Fraser, has said publicly that they're not gagged - and remind them that, even officially, it's only to councillors, to the media and at public meetings that they are banned from speaking out against HC policies, NOT in private conversations with parents.
Then you do the shouting, if you can be bothered -frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of being the messenger, so I've asked the councillors to review this ridiculous gagging clause in their employees' contracts to save us all the job!
Re -
If you want to find out what's going on, just ask a friendly teacher and reassure them that the Big Man, Mr Fraser, has said publicly that they're not gagged - and remind them that, even officially, it's only to councillors, to the media and at public meetings that they are banned from speaking out against HC policies, NOT in private conversations with parents.
Where do Parent Councils fit in here? Did hear that HT's were told NOT to speak to their Parent Councils about certain issues!!!!
weeboyagee
27-May-08, 14:08
Tootler, tootler,..... have we been here before???
- Gaelic is to be gradually introduced as an element of the curriculum into all Highland schools. Again, Caithness teachers find this proposal ridiculous but are powerless to do anything about it.
Erm,.... why are the teachers to be given a say about this in the manner that seems to be promoted here? The parents of the kids in the local Croilleagan have been hammering out their desire to have their kids attend Gaelic Medium eduction in Thurso for years and have a right to have that provided! Nothing to do with the teachers wants - they're employed to do what they are told - as long as it is reasonable - like any other employee in any other contract of employment - they are no different to the rest of us. They have the right to air concerns - internally as all the rest of us employees have the right to do with our employers. But, believe you me, publically lambast your employer and you can well find yourself in breach of contract for bringing the company into disrepute whether you think your utterings are reasonable or not - you can then be found to be in breach of contract and then surprise, surprise,.... you then find yourself out of a job!!!
The provision of Gaelic Medium education in this county is to do with public demand and this like it or not provides for jobs - why on earth should the teachers be given a say on this when the public demand is there for it - and it has been supplied to them now in accordance with their demand!
Why do Caithness Teachers find it rediculous? You find and listen to those who support your cause methinks - but zip your mouth and encourage those with a different opinion to speak forth and you might find to your surprise that they're there! But while you spout your ill-informed rhetoric you will find that you can't and won't find them - I truly wonder why,....eh???
If you want to find out what's going on, just ask a friendly teacher and reassure them that the Big Man, Mr Fraser, has said publicly that they're not gagged - and remind them that, even officially, it's only to councillors, to the media and at public meetings that they are banned from speaking out against HC policies, NOT in private conversations with parents.
Let's get this straight - there is a duty on employees to be a "good" employee towards their employer and abide by the terms of their contract of employment. You choose to sign it and abide by it or you choose not to. If you sign and find yourself frustrated at being a "good" employee because you cannot lambast your employer then resign and shout your mouth off from the other side of the fence. What's your problem with this - it is perfectly reasonable! Your point makes absolutely no sense - you just want to have a go!!!
WBG :cool:
weeboyagee
27-May-08, 14:34
And while I am at it - Mr Rosie who was quoted in the Groat at retorting at Bill Fernie at the said meeting may have thought that he had scored a beauty of a goal when he had the applause of the audience behind him but considering that the meeting was not called as one to have everyone cheer and support Hamish Fraser and Bill Fernie it is small wonder that such was the response. Mr Rosie must of looked like a Knight-in-shining-armour and felt like one. I somehow think that this is the main reason that Mr Rosie takes on this issue - more for the popularity vote than anything else - I can't recall a time where he didn't take issue with something other than that which made him popular in the eyes of the community regardless of the few vocal members that probably made it sound like a baying mob!
Aye,... Councillors in the main are after one thing - making sure that they are in a job in a few years time - nothing else!
The schools are falling around about their ears because those who we voted into the job of running our councils and sitting their backsides in chambers either in Caithness or Inverness over the decades of building decay have failed to provide properly for their community. Dilapidated schools are not a problem of today - moreover a disastrous legacy from the past - and who were the councillors to blame then? EH?
People can shout as much as they want about the requirement to get the money they need now - but where is the "teaching of the lesson" to the councillors to ensure they get their act together for the sins of the past? No,... instead they jump on the "I'll support you" band-wagon and say "quite right" while we slap their back and say "good on you" for supporting their community - where was the support to provide for these falling down schools over the past decades? They and their entire lot should be severly reprimanded. They themselves have created the disgrace that we have to live with and yet hold themselves entirlely apart from the accountability. Of course, there is no councillor that could be accountable on their own though is there? They're all one.... or are they 8v2 comes to mind! What a joke!
And don't give me the limited budget spend scenario - when the funds were limited - who made the decision that Wick and Thurso should be further down the proverial list than others? The argument has little to do with funding of language medium education - the kids have to be taught no matter the language - but the opportunity spend is NOTHING like the opportunity squandered or mis-managed I'll bet!
WBG :cool:
Oh, WeeBoyagee, stay calm -
It was not the provision of Gaelic medium education I was on about - you are perfectly right that there has been a desire shown by some parents for that and, if funding is in place for basic education for everyone else (which, by the way, it's not) then I would agree, in principle, that these parents should be entitled to access that type of education for their children.
No, I was talking about the new, the latest, the shiny and, to me, completely laughable policy that Gaelic should be introduced in every classroom in Caithness - that's regardless of whether the teacher has any Gaelic at all or any enthusiasm for the Gaelic culture. This new policy will do nothing to promote good feeling about Gaelic and everything to lower regular hardworking teachers' morale even further... Gaelic was not part of the package when they took on the job - if it had been, they'd have looked for a job in an English-speaking part of the country. (Ooops, this is an English-speaking part of the country? - Oh well, easy mistake to make, eh, WeeBoyagee?!)
WBG, we all love you - you have such enthusiasm, energy and drive - but you can only lead the horse to water, you can't make it drink. And if you continue to try, you may drown us all in your Gaelic culture!
Stay cool, WBG, live & (please?) let live, and allow our head teachers their freedom of speech - I, for one, am interested to hear what they think, rather than what a couple of men in grey suits have told them they should think.:roll:
weeboyagee
28-May-08, 12:57
Chilled, totally chilled. Paracetamol and a Bombay Gin - good for the soul! Did someone mention anything about Gaelic?...... :D
WBG :cool:
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