View Full Version : "hard earned housing wealth..."
NickInTheNorth
12-May-08, 11:09
Just seen a snippet of a speech by Gordon Brown in which he appeared to bemoan the fact the people were going to have to spend a large proportion of their "hard earned housing wealth..." in providing for their own care in later years.
Now to my mind there are a couple of issues to that.
Firstly how is sitting on your hands, doing nothing other than pay your normal mortgage payments "hard earned" the only reason for "housing wealth" is that people are stupid enough to pay vastly inflated prices for a pile of bricks and mortar.
Secondly what is wrong with using your own wealth to provide for your own care?
Boozeburglar
12-May-08, 11:18
To some people a house is a family home, not money in the bank. I don't see any fairness in someone paying taxes all their life and then being forced into selling their home to pay for care. They may as well have sat on their backsides and earned nothing or stayed in rental or in social housing and used the money for better things rather than make the leap they were encouraged into by the government of the day and the massaged housing market promising so much.
To some people a house is a family home, not money in the bank. I don't see any fairness in someone paying taxes all their life and then being forced into selling their home to pay for care. They may as well have sat on their backsides in social housing.
Totally agree.
Firstly how is sitting on your hands, doing nothing other than pay your normal mortgage payments "hard earned" the only reason for "housing wealth" is that people are stupid enough to pay vastly inflated prices for a pile of bricks and mortar.
Secondly what is wrong with using your own wealth to provide for your own care?
I don't sit on my hands doing nothing more than pay my normal mortgage payments: I work damn hard and save even harder to make sure I can manage.
If you work and plan for your old age what happens is that you are punished in triple. You are taxed till it comes out of your ears part of which (rightly so) pays for welfare. Then you save like a donkey so that you have a reasonable pension. Then because you have saved, have put aside for the future, you get charged out of your eyeballs. Yet if I spent everything I had the minute I got it and made no plans for the future at all, the government would have to take care of me without charging me...... there must be logic in all of this, but with the same stupity that keeps me working and saving, I can't for the life of me see it.
Have to agree with previous posters; I too worked hard to buy my house and instead of having holidays in the sun, having a car etc., I put everything into paying off the mortgage early and it felt good but I know that if I become incapable of looking after myself the first to go will be my house and I will have nothing to show for all my wishing to be independant.
I would have been better off staying in my council flat.....:confused
the only reason for "housing wealth" is that people are stupid enough to pay vastly inflated prices for a pile of bricks and mortar.
Secondly what is wrong with using your own wealth to provide for your own care?
It's nothing to do with stupidity. You need a home. Therefore you need to pay "the going rate", otherwise you go without.
In saying that, I am somewhat envious of the the people who bought their Dounreay houses for £12k 15 years ago and can now sell them for £90k. But that is no fault of their own.
I intend to use my own wealth to pay for my care later in life. It's called national insurance, and the more I earn the more I pay. I'd feel very hard done by sitting in my old folks home with no inheritance for my children, knowing that the bloke next to me, who'd never worked a day in his life is getting the same care.
It's nothing to do with stupidity. You need a home. Therefore you need to pay "the going rate", otherwise you go without.
In saying that, I am somewhat envious of the the people who bought their Dounreay houses for £12k 15 years ago and can now sell them for £90k. But that is no fault of their own.
No reason to be envious since if they want to buy another home they'll be paying a similarly inflated price.
Like the rest of you I've worked hard all my life and gone without to own my own home. Every time I've moved house the selling price has been more than I paid but there's no profit in it as it's been spent on the next one.
Just as a matter of interest, Nick (since it's not the first time you've jibed at homeowners) - what do you live in? Obviously not a house you've bought yourself.
Just seen a snippet of a speech by Gordon Brown in which he appeared to bemoan the fact the people were going to have to spend a large proportion of their "hard earned housing wealth..." in providing for their own care in later years.
Now to my mind there are a couple of issues to that.
Firstly how is sitting on your hands, doing nothing other than pay your normal mortgage payments "hard earned" the only reason for "housing wealth" is that people are stupid enough to pay vastly inflated prices for a pile of bricks and mortar.
Secondly what is wrong with using your own wealth to provide for your own care?
I certainly have not "sat on my hands" doing nothing in order to be able to afford a roof over my head. People have paid a lot of money over the years to have something which is theirs in their retirement. Paying "vastly inflated prices" is something that the home buyer has little control over.
Why should the elderly have to sell their homes to help pay for care? What happens if one person still lives in that home but the other needs 24 hour care that they cannot provide or have sufficient savings to pay for. In your scheme of things that person would have to sell up and go into rented accommodation or maybe live on the streets. They have worked damn hard all their lives to get a little 'nest egg'.
It's OK for you - you live in Scotland where care for the elderly is free (along with some other things). Maybe that's why you moved there?
I moved to Caithness from the West Highlands, having moved there from Yorkshire 6 years previously. The original move from Yorkshire for me was largely about quality of life. The sense of space. The lack of pollution. The lower crime levels. The opportunity to step out of the rat race.
And the chance of getting something for nowt maybe?[disgust]
To some people a house is a family home, not money in the bank. I don't see any fairness in someone paying taxes all their life and then being forced into selling their home to pay for care. They may as well have sat on their backsides in social housing.
Totally agree with u for me the whole object of buying a house is to be morgage free 25 year down the road and be better of with no morgage or rent in retirment and then when u kick the bucket it passes down to kids and improves there life style thats the main reason for buying.And your care should be provided for u thats what u pay ure taxes and nhs all your life from.
There is a lot to be said about hows better off the guy that works hard and does all the right finiacial things or the guy that doesnt work and sits in the bar.
And as for gordon brown hes got zero chance in getting re elected.
If any changes are to be made they should set a max time limit on how long you get unemployment benifits for and get these people that dont want to work forced back into working.
Its amazing how much people the uk has that are unemployed make out they cant get a job and you see all these thousand and thousands of hard working polish people come across and get a job no bother and for some cant even speak english and get a job thats why for me LONG term unemployed people have no excuse just pure and simple lazy people that no how to work the system.
NickInTheNorth
13-May-08, 08:56
Just as a matter of interest, Nick (since it's not the first time you've jibed at homeowners) - what do you live in? Obviously not a house you've bought yourself.
No, not a house I've bought myself, many years ago I made a concious decision not to byt, but to rent instead. I've have moved around a lot and it never seemed sensible to buy.
I have never regretted that decision.
I have absolutely no problem with people owning property, that is their choice.
My major point, obviously lost on all of you is the notion of "housing wealth".
A house should not be seen as some get rich quick scheme for your heirs, which is all that housing wealth can possibly be, given that there seems to be a moral imperative to stop folks having to spend any of their "hard earned housing wealth". As far as I am aware we come into the world with nothing, and leave it the same way.
I certainly have not "sat on my hands" doing nothing in order to be able to afford a roof over my head. People have paid a lot of money over the years to have something which is theirs in their retirement. Paying "vastly inflated prices" is something that the home buyer has little control over.
Why should the elderly have to sell their homes to help pay for care? What happens if one person still lives in that home but the other needs 24 hour care that they cannot provide or have sufficient savings to pay for. In your scheme of things that person would have to sell up and go into rented accommodation or maybe live on the streets. They have worked damn hard all their lives to get a little 'nest egg'.
It's OK for you - you live in Scotland where care for the elderly is free (along with some other things). Maybe that's why you moved there?
And the chance of getting something for nowt maybe?[disgust]
You're wrong on that one. If you own your own home and have to go into care in Scotland your house is used to pay for it. The elderly get free personal or nursing care in Scotland if required in their own home or a nursing home but still have to pay fees to the home for their accommodation. If more than one person resides in the property a standard security is put on the house until the other person no longer needs it. It is then sold off to pay the fees.
No, not a house I've bought myself, many years ago I made a concious decision not to byt, but to rent instead. I've have moved around a lot and it never seemed sensible to buy.
I have never regretted that decision.
Your decision. And one that many also decide on. But you don't see me questioning why you feel it right to pour money into the pocket of some Rental Rigsby. You're making someone else wealthy. Probably paying for their holiday home in the Algarve or Florida. And you can be evicted at the whim of your landlord. You decide that 3 bedrooms are not enough because you want another kid you can't convert a room/loft or add an extension. You have to go and find a four bedroom property.
A homeowner can do what they like (within planning restrictions) should they want to expand their living space (which is what a lot of growing families do, rather than move house).
I have absolutely no problem with people owning property, that is their choice.
Glad to hear it - I suppose it's just as well otherwise renting might be difficult...
My major point, obviously lost on all of you is the notion of "housing wealth".
A house should not be seen as some get rich quick scheme for your heirs, which is all that housing wealth can possibly be, given that there seems to be a moral imperative to stop folks having to spend any of their "hard earned housing wealth". As far as I am aware we come into the world with nothing, and leave it the same way.
A major point which seems to be lost on you is that for a huge majority of people house buying is NOT a "get rich quick scheme". Most mortgages last for 25 years before you see any 'rewards' and after that time you will have paid a huge lump of interest for it. Many folk seeing home ownership as a way to enjoy THEIR retirement in relative "comfort". If parents are so stupid as to just be a cash cow for their kids that's their fault.
I had to get to where I am today off my own hard work. No help from parents with deposits or other financial input.
Renting seems to fit in with your move every few years kind of lifestyle. "Owning" a roof over their heads fits in with others.
But many people have failed to achieve their dream of owning their own home and have had them repossessed. Hardly the rapid road to riches that you feel it is....
Not so much a case of "where there is Muck there is brass" but where there is mortar...
Venture - Thanks for your correction.
So what about free prescriptions, free higher education? I expect that NickInTheFreeNorth will benefit from this?
So what about free prescriptions, free higher education? I expect that NickInTheFreeNorth will benefit from this?We still pay prescription charges at the moment although they are being phased out in stages until 2011 when they will be free.
Well NITN will be quids in then when he has to get his prescriptions....[lol]
Well NITN will be quids in then when he has to get his prescriptions....[lol]Apparently English tax payers are up in arms about it as they see themselves as paying for the privileges that residents in Scotland will have.
My arms are up!!!
May have to move back to Scotland to take advantage of all these perks...
percy toboggan
13-May-08, 18:26
To some people a house is a family home, not money in the bank. I don't see any fairness in someone paying taxes all their life and then being forced into selling their home to pay for care. They may as well have sat on their backsides in social housing.
Then you appear to live in a Utopian dreamworld which defies the logic of demographics and the relaities of harsh economic reality.
Your post also suggests that 'sitting on ones backside' and 'living in social housing' is a predictable collocation....two peas in the same pod...well you are very wrong...and I, for one resent the implication on behalf of all Council tenants and Housing Association tenants who work for their living.....and there are many of them.
If you throw inaccurate & stigmatising comments around expect to be challenged.
Boozeburglar
13-May-08, 21:15
It was unfortunate that I phrased that wrongly. I fully support social housing and fair rents and you have probably read posts in the past that would let you know I believe that the whole house buying scam is just that.
Yes some people have made a good profit on their house purchase, but on the other hand some people are losing homes that have no value to them other than as homes for their families, and many of them have had their homes through the generations. How can the state put a value on that and sell them out from under them?
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