Abolishing the 10p tax band

[percy toboggan]

Forgive my ignorance but does this apply in Scotland? I think it does.
Labour's plans to punish the lowest paid in society are a disgrace and a betrayal of their core values.

My wife for instance...largely part time...earns less than £10k will be about £200 per year worse off.

All this is even more gaulling when tax payers money is being used to bail out banks who have made fat profits year on year for a decade and more.
Gordon Brown seems to be in denial. I know it's over a year since the measure was announced but only now are the howls of protest beginning to hit home...I hope. I've written to my M.P. in no uncertain terms of protest.

There is talk of a backbench rebellion, and Tory leader David Cameron seems an unlikely ally for the worst off...we shall see. I cannot see Labour M.P's causing a crisis in confidence which may cost them their perk filled jobs.

I feel their gravy train will hit the buffers soon enough but it will be interesting to see if any of them come through this issue with their integrity intact...or capitulate in the face of the party whips.
Who'd have thought it eh? Kier Hardie must be spinning in his grave.

[martin macdonald]

Forgive my ignorance but does this apply in Scotland? I think it does.
Labour's plans to punish the lowest paid in society are a disgrace and a betrayal of their core values.

My wife for instance...largely part time...earns less than £10k will be about £200 per year worse off.

All this is even more gaulling when tax payers money is being used to bail out banks who have made fat profits year on year for a decade and more.
Gordon Brown seems to be in denial. I know it's over a year since the measure was announced but only now are the howls of protest beginning to hit home...I hope. I've written to my M.P. in no uncertain terms of protest.

There is talk of a backbench rebellion, and Tory leader David Cameron seems an unlikely ally for the worst off...we shall see. I cannot see Labour M.P's causing a crisis in confidence which may cost them their perk filled jobs.

I feel their gravy train will hit the buffers soon enough but it will be interesting to see if any of them come through this issue with their integrity intact...or capitulate in the face of the party whips.
Who'd have thought it eh? Kier Hardie must be spinning in his grave.i! john smith will be turning in his grave

[percy toboggan]

You're right about JS. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if he'd lived another ten years. What a very different place Britain might have been today. No Blurr...No Iraq I think....He was a good man with a fine family.
A loss to Britain.

[martin macdonald]

You're right about JS. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if he'd lived another ten years. What a very different place Britain might have been today. No Blurr...No Iraq I think....He was a good man with a fine family.
A loss to Britain.yes they just dont make them like j.s now.i never thought i would see labour is such a sorry state and worse than that, with a scottish p.m:eek:snp for me next time

[JamesMcVean]

It is a bloomin disgrace...but what is the alternative...tory?

Maggie and the Poll tax has soured them with me forever!

[percy toboggan]

I've been Tory averse since I was old enough to take an interest in politics...about 12. First election I followed with my Dad Harold Wilson got in.
The biggest single factor that has influenced my wealth on this earth was the right to buy my council house. A plan of Margaret Thatchers. I was opposed at first...it I hadn't been it would be ours now...instead of three years down the line. I resented the fact that her policies also cost me my job!Fortunately I saw sense...rent now is triple what we pay for the mortgage...aside from any capital gain. So, although I'm knee-jerk anti-Tory I'm not sure I don't owe 'em summat.The dogma of Labour seems to belong to another age...in fact the whole concept of a party speaking for the troubled, exploited masses seems at odds now with the every man for himself aproach Thatcher engendered....and New Labour facilitated. The intervening years where material wealth has been assisted by faux notions of property wealth and a pay later mentality.

Labour has let down this country in ways I could never have imagined in '97 when I rejoiced at their victory. At least I expected Tories to treat the likes of me with contempt...when Labour did it too it hurt all the more...this latest grab from the lower paid turns the stomach.

My recent voting history is no secret.... but I'd consider giving Cameron a go. Possibly out of desperation but lets see the policies he firms up over the next eighteen months. I like the cut of his jib... and given the alternatives he's the only mainstream leader I'd consider putting any faith in at all.
He might get the benefit of the doubt if I discount another protest vote.
Around here though only a seismc shift would unseat the Labour incumbent.

[Kenn]

Labour has always been the party of tax and spend so nothing new there but they used to have a social conscience, seems like that's gone to the wall as well now, but then again this government never thinks any thing through and always ends up having to ammend the legislation and the ammendments to it.
I just hope they are hanging their heads in shame over this, it's disgraceful.

[unicorn]

good old double tax bill for me this year too. I wouldn't mind so much if I benefitted somewhere else but I dont.

[TBH]

I've been Tory averse since I was old enough to take an interest in politics...about 12. First election I followed with my Dad Harold Wilson got in.
The biggest signle factor that has influenced my wealth on this earth was the right to buy my council house. A plan of Margarte Thatchers. I was ooposed at first...it I hadn't been it would be ours now...instead of three years down the line. Fortunately I saw sense...rent now is triple what we pay for the mortgage...aside from any capital gain. So, although I'm knee-jerk anti-Tory I'm not sure I don't owe 'em summat.The dogma of Labour seems to belong to another age...in fact the whole concept of a party speaking for the troubled, exploited masses seems at odds now with the every man for himself aproach Thatcher engendered....and New Labour facilitated. The intervening years where material wealth has been assisted by faux notions of property wealth and a pay later mentality.

Labour has let down this country in ways I could never have imagined in '97 when I rejoiced at their victory. At least I expected Tories to treat the likes of me with contempt...when Labour did it too it hurt all the more...this latest grab from the lower paid turns the stomach.

My recent voting history is no secret.... but I'd consider giving Cameron a go. Possibly out of desperation but lets see the policies he firms up over the next eighteen months. I like the cut of his jib... and given the alternatives he's the only mainstream leader I'd consider putting any faith in at all.
He might get the benefit of the doubt if I discount another protest vote.
AroundForget all that Percy, just settle in Scotland and vote favourably if a referendum on Independence ever happens.

[Riffman]

This was announced a YEAR ago. In fact I had assumed that it was already in place as I had heard so much about it.

Why the big surprise? Surely every tax payer in the country took note of what was happening at the last budget?

I can't believe for a minute that the collective memory of this country only extends less than 11 months....

As for the slick haired Cameron..... what a complete faker, ready to jump on every little criticism of the government.

I may not agree with labour, but I agree even less with a party who will make up policies depending on the public reaction on the new....[disgust]

[anneoctober]

I think so much "good cheer" revolved around the 22p down to 20p, that none of us really took on board the implications of the 10p tax vanishing. Even now, GB is still trying to focus our attention on the former. He says that there will be other benefits that the poorer families will be entitled too, but I think we'll find that IF you do manage to find one to apply for, sure as eggs is eggs there'll be some stipulation which ensures it does n't go to the folk who need it. GB & Co. should try living on the breadline for a month or two ( not the week as is usual in their documentaries) and see how some families have to get by day to day. I just hope the 70 MP's who are against this injustice, will remember WHO actually got them their places on the "gravy train" and don't back down and leave their constituents in the lurch. :confused

[NickInTheNorth]

What really amuses me in this whole row is the notion that it is "too difficult to unpick" and costs too much to do anything about it.

Given that the aim of the campaign against the abolition is to stop it hurting the poorer members of society why not simply tinker with the national insurance contributions?

Lift the lower earnings limit by however much would get the poorer tax payers back to the position they would be in had the 10p rate not been scrapped, and raise the upper income limit to compensate.

In a stroke the poorer are "compensated" at the expense of the wealthier members of society, with no impact on middle incomes. The old labour party would have done that in the blink of an eye.

Now I'm sure that I must have missed some obvious problem with that, but I'd value your comments.

[Penelope Pitstop]

IMO, The only thing that abolishing the 10% tax band will do is to make it seem even less appealing for folk that fall into the lower paid bracket to work....i.e. for some they won't think it is worth their while....:confused

[cd1977]

But only poor people pay tax, remember?

Meanwhile, Mr Merchant Banker in the city will have to "make do" with a bonus of only £500,000 this year compared to £3million last year, due to the banking crisis :roll:.

All the while, the taxpayer ends up bailing out the bank which has had to curtail some of the sharp practice used to cripple the economy in the first place.

Let's face it, unless you are born into money, the government will hammer you left, right and centre.

[percy toboggan]

It is highly unlikely that any tax measure will invoke the wrath of voters twelve months before the event. I also think the collective memory of the nation extends much shorter than eleven months...I'd say closer to eleven weeks.

[percy toboggan]

U turn measures proposed by Gordon Brown to-day do nothing for a mid-fifties part-time worker on about ten grand a year....my wife's tax rate has effectively doubled.

For someone conscientious who has had about three days off sick in twenty five years it's a kick in the crutch from a so called Labour Government...a pox* on the lot of them..I'll never vote Labour again, as long as I live....it's immigration matters rather than this latest injustice but they have alienated me for life.

* this term is catching.

[cuddlepop]

My daughter picked up her wages today and for 2 x37hr weeks took home £348.00.

This change in tax band has left her paying £87.00 in tax and £2.03 in NI


How are the under 25's to manage when they are not entitled to claim tax credits[evil]

[cd1977]

The general health of the country at this moment in time is not good. There are various strikes, hyper inflation way above the "official" rate, and banks dropping like flies. And Gordon Brown has the cheek to tell Robert Mugabe how to run a country!

I fear this is only the start of it. Something is very rotten at the core of UK plc.

[Mister Squiggle]

In a nutshell, can someone explain to me what the 10p tax was? Being from far away, I've not heard of it before until this week and I cannot make head nor tail of it all, apart from the fact that I got slogged some more tax this week in my pay slip (or so it would seem).
What, with all this and heating oil going through the roof, paying 113p a litre in Thurso to fill my car and the pound sinking into the sunset, I say it's time for another peasant's revolution. To the barricades everyone!

[cd1977]

The first £1,500 of income earned in the tax year was previously taxed at 10%. That has now been abolished. The basic rate of income tax has however dropped from 22 to 20%. So the change hits those on the lowest incomes hardest.

[Mister Squiggle]

Thank you CD1977 - that explains it far more clearly than the BBC have been able to :)
As I work part-time and earn less than 10k, this would obviously affect my tax rate, hence the lower pay this time around. Charming.
As Terry Wogan said the other morning, don't you often get the feeling these days that someone's hand is in your pocket filching money you'd rather not have to hand over?

[percy toboggan]

No illustration I've so far seen has included my wifes group...more than sixteen hours earning less than ten grand...so I'm thinking she may be entitlesd to working tax credit. I'm off to have a look, but are they means tested? If so we're screwed...there is no reward for saving yer money under this Government...being positively prudent only applies to the wally from Kirkcaldy....or does it?
Answers on a Giro to....

[Penelope Pitstop]

No illustration I've so far seen has included my wifes group...more than sixteen hours earning less than ten grand...so I'm thinking she may be entitlesd to working tax credit. I'm off to have a look, but are they means tested? If so we're screwed...there is no reward for saving yer money under this Government...being positively prudent only applies to the wally from Kirkcaldy....or does it?
Answers on a Giro to....

Your so right there Percy. Governments message is don't bother to save any money spend it willy nilly 'cause we'll sort you out anyway.....and we wonder why folk are coming here in droves from eastern european countries[disgust]

[percy toboggan]

Aye...I've met two Poles in two days...one at a burger van...(Sausage and tomato barmcake for me) with a little encouragement from the 'chef' he launched into a rant - in broken English about Pakistani's - I'd not heard such apparent hostility in a long while....seemed a tad 'arsh to me....I found meself defendin' 'em! ....Not quite a first, but close.

Then another one nosed his lorry into a yard in which I was loading today. He was hopelessly lost...five miles off track and had got himself into a real hole. I helped him out of it and got him on his way.At least it was a Polish truck...not a British one. (annoys me when it's a British wagon)
Anyways. back on track I've had a reply from my MP who acknowledges the Government have screwed up ( paraphrase) - and he's Labour too. Nothing to be done but grin and bear it, and wait for an election.
Methinks there's something crocodilish about Cameron's tears on behalf of the poorest...however, he has a real chance to connect with people who don't normally give a toss for toffs. Go, David go...I don't want to vote for a fringe party ever again after next week. 'onest.

[badger]

I've never been impressed with Gordon Brown's control of our finances - he's just led us deeper and deeper into debt with nothing put by from the good times - and I can understand why jo public didn't take much notice of this announcement originally, but what on earth were all those people in Westminster doing (Labour backbenchers included) ? Were they all asleep when it was announced? Why leave it until now to sit up and take notice?

I think it's a great pity Vince Cable didn't make it as Leader of the LibDems - he's the only one who seems to talk any sense these days - but even he seems to have missed this one originally.

The Chancellor and other Treasury spokespersons don't seem to have a clue what's going on now with GB saying one thing and others something different. The only thing they seem agreed on is that it's "complicated". And whose fault is that I wonder?

[percy toboggan]

[quote=badger;377313]
I think it's a great pity Vince Cable didn't make it as Leader of the LibDems - he's the only one who seems to talk any sense these days - but even he seems to have missed this one originally.

quote]

Oh, he was far too old, and not young and sexy enough Badger.
THe fact that he spoke good common sense and had a grasp of economic reaities iddn't matter to the coterie of yoghurt knitters they call the lib-dem 'constituency' so they opted for an atheist lothario. A strange combination...the first bit requires absolute certainty the last bit requires a bit of discretion...especially if you've since married and don't want to make yer wife feel uncomfy. Clegg is not a patch on Cable, but Vinny looks auld and ordinary...not good enough...look at poor Ming...binned and written off.

[Cedric Farthsbottom III]

I'm taxed from ma tin o whisky to ma Wetherspoon burger,fae ma trip on the bus to ma tin o' baked beans.Tax,tax,tax.Disnae matter who's in charge though,it'll always be there.Don't like GB as Prime Minister,but he was a good chancellor.

[Dusty]

I don't uderstand how you can rate Gordon Brown as a good Chancellor Cedric. :confused
He introduced twenty two NEW taxes and raped Pension Funds to the tune of £5 billion per year. (Was the term Pensions Crisis heard before we had a Labour Government?)
The abolition of the 10% tax band was just another example of the underhand and dishonourable way he had when dealing with the UK taxpayer.
I believe him to be a grasping, lying cheat, which probably makes him well qualified as a Labour Prime Minister.
But of course, that is only my opinion, others may well see him in a different light.

[Cedric Farthsbottom III]

Dusty,ma wage was the only thing coming into the hoose.Plus the family allowance.Nothin more nothin less.Labour came in and gave me a hand wi tax credits.So to me,he was a good chancellor.I have ma own personal pension plan and everythings lookin good.World events have caused todays situation.As I have always said on here,I live in a wee hoose in Wick,they might be coming to take me away,but I'm happy.

[Dusty]

Cedric, if your happy, then you're probably a lot richer than some.

Your experience of Labour has helped you form your opinion and the same applies to me.

Lang may yer lum reek pal :).

[Cedric Farthsbottom III]

Cedric, if your happy, then you're probably a lot richer than some.

Your experience of Labour has helped you form your opinion and the same applies to me.

Lang may yer lum reek pal :).

Lang may yer lum reek too,Dusty.:D

I lived in the Tory years when they ripped the heart out of the workin class and gave favours to folk who earned a certain amount of money.I like politics where its in black and white.Thats why I've never voted Liberal.Cos I think sitting on a wooden fence hurts yer bum.

[TBH]

They did reintroduce the minimum wage which helped raise unskilled employment levels.

[Moi x]

About a year ago, I read an excellent analysis of the role that Gordon Brown's 1997/98 realignment of corporate tax and reintroduction of tax on pension dividends played in the current pensions 'crisis' but I can't find it tonight. The conclusion was that the usual simple minded analyses weren't just wrong but they were hopelessly wrong and that Brown's interventions had relatively minor repercussions, perhaps less than 15 or 25% of the total problem. I wish I could find something better than this (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/columnists/article584832.ece) and this (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/evandavis/2007/04/that_pensions_raid.html) because they are pale imitations of the real McCoy.

But I don't know what he was thinking of when he abolished the 10% tax band without making readjustments elsewhere to ensure that low-paid workers without children in the home would not lose out.

Moi x