View Full Version : Councillor David Bremner
Green_not_greed
02-Apr-08, 12:40
Radio Highland reported this morning that Cllr David Bremner is being ousted by the SNP for not toeing the party line. From what I've seen he has represented his ward extremely well on behalf of his electorate.
What do orgers think? Should Councillors toe the party line or best represent their electorate (if the two are in disagreement)?
cuddlepop
02-Apr-08, 13:21
Radio Highland reported this morning that Cllr David Bremner is being ousted by the SNP for not toeing the party line. From what I've seen he has represented his ward extremely well on behalf of his electorate.
What do orgers think? Should Councillors toe the party line or best represent their electorate (if the two are in disagreement)?
Didnt catch the radio broadcast but what exactly has he done?
me I'd have to be independent because I dont agree 100% with any one party.
If the electorate have voted for you,eg as a Labour candidate then I guess you'd have to toe the line,regardless as to whether it was in the best interest of constituants.
weeboyagee
02-Apr-08, 13:22
You represent the electorate first and foremost - or you sure as heck will not have your seat at the next election. If the potential is there where you will conflict with the party line then you stand as an independent - simple as that. If you believe in the Party's policies then you go with them. If not then expect what the Party throws at you when you dissent or don't toe the line. I would expect that one of the main issues will have to have been compromised or constant compromising of smaller issues would bring about such an action.
Politics is not a game played on a local pitch - you pin your colours to the mast and you have to fly the flag......
WBG :cool:
No mention of this on the lunchtime bulletin or the BBC news page for Highlands.
Green_not_greed
02-Apr-08, 13:28
Didnt catch the radio broadcast but what exactly has he done?
Not voting in favour of bilingual signs for Caithness was mentioned. So pretty serious stuff....
Humerous Vegetable
02-Apr-08, 13:29
They are elected, in my opinion, to represent the views of their constituency. If the majority in Caithness think that spending taxpayers' money on Gaelic road signs is against the public interest, councillors should reflect that view and not blindly "go with the flow" with the rest of Highland council. There was a report in today's P&J that billboards and other road signage had a high distraction rate and were leading to increased road traffic accidents. Where is the Health & Safety mafia when you need them?
I know David very well and if he is ousted from the party it just goes to show the fickleness of the SNP and party politics.
I heard a while ago that David was called to a pre-vote meeting by his SNP collegues, which involved an extra day in Inverness.
"Why do we need a pre-vote meeting?" asked David.
"To decide which way to vote as a party"
"I'll vote whatever way I think is best for my constituents, and I don't need a pre-vote meeting for that" was his reply.
In my view, this is the way all elected councillors/MP's/MSP's should vote - for the good of the people they represent, not by "the party line".
Pleased to hear that we have a 'free thinking' councillor who puts his constituency first. Hope for local government yet!?
From what I have read David seems to be a very good councillor who listens to his consituents... if the SNP don't want him it will be their loss.
NickInTheNorth
02-Apr-08, 18:46
The overwhelming dominance of the parties in Britain's political system is the biggest single cause of voter apathy. The parties stifle genuine debate. They prevent the formation of policy based on genuinely held voter opinion.
They are nothing but a recruiting ground for political wannabes that would promise anything to anyone to get elected, and once elected they invariably stop listening to any opinion other than that of the party leadership.
So a big well done to Cllr Bremner, it is good to see someone in politics that still has some integrity.
I should also say a huge well done to the many independent councillors we are fortunate to have on the Highland Council. May it long remain so.
Elections should be about the individual policies and beliefs of the individual candidate. In particular with regard to local issues. If a duly elected individual then wishes to support a particular party on most issues, fine and dandy - provided that that support does not impinge on the integrity of the beliefs of that individual politician.
As to parties "sacking" members who refuse 100% adherence to the party line, pretty small minded in my opinion. Surely any organisation is big enough to accept some dissent along the way?
So a big well done to Cllr Bremner, it is good to see someone in politics that still has some integrity.
I should also say a huge well done to the many independent councillors we are fortunate to have on the Highland Council. May it long remain so.
I agree that Cllr Bremner has integrity - but I haven't witnessed our 'Independent' Councillors being independent - at present they are following the SNP line.................!
http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon9.gif
From what I have seen and heard of Councillor David Bremner he is a thoroughly good egg and does his utmost to represent his constituents and promote and fight for his county. I shall be voting for him again.
David Bremner for First Minister!!!
I agree, Cllr Bremner is an asset to Caithness (or North Highland).
SNP LISTEN,
- WE DONT WANT YOUR STUPID GARLIC ROAD SIGNS
- WE DONT WANT YOUR EDEN COURT, WASTE OF MONEY
Thats my rant over, All the best to Cllr D Bremner for his future, whatever he chooses to do.
Big hughie
02-Apr-08, 22:40
Cllr Bremner should be applauded for his stance and so should John Thurso when he resigned his parties front bench over the Lib Dems attitude to nuclear power
I totally agree with Nick in the Norths excellent post and perhaps Blackcat should perhaps take a look at his beloved New Labour parties attitude to policy rebels before making comments Dennis Canavan for example but then he was honest and a socialist ...Something alien to New Labour eh?
Beeg Hugheeeeeee
PS Eden Court was built in the 1970s Not a lot of SNP councillors about then ??? a few more now but Highland council still has the Indep as its biggest group and long may it continue Gaelic signs or not regarding which
Draft Gaelic Language Plan
Highland Council’s draft Gaelic Language Plan was adopted by the Council’s Gaelic Committee on November 8 2007 and was submitted to Bòrd na Gaidhlig on October 1 2007, as required by the Gaelic Language Act 2005. Copies of the Plan are available at:
Gaelic Language Plan (http://www.highland.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/FD90D23B-1691-43A9-9E0A-1FD086E85820/0/highlandcouncilgaelicplan27907.pdf) (PDF 183 Kb) Dreachd Phlana Gàidhlig
Ghabh Comataidh Ghàidhlig Comhairle na Gàidhealtachd ri dreachd Phlana Gàidhlig air Samhain 8 2007 agus chaidh am Plana a chur gu Bòrd na Gàidhlig air Dàmhair 1 2007, mar a tha air iarraidh fo Achd na Gàidhlig 2005. Gheibhear lethbhreacan den Phlana aig:
Dreachd Phlana Gàidhlig (http://www.highland.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/77B9D3E4-73C5-4738-956B-908958681532/0/planagaidhligcomhairlenagaidhealtachd27907.pdf) (PDF 160 Kb)Please note the date of the Gaelic Act ie 2005 and passed by the Labour Administration
David is a good councillor unlike some of the other puppets and sticks up for his constituents. I hope he just gives them the finger :pand stands as an independent.
ywindythesecond
02-Apr-08, 23:16
David Bremner has shown his mettle since the election. His peers have supported him and he has earned his place as civic leader. I don't know the details of his "ousting", but he will have put his duty to the people who voted for him before strict party lines. A refreshing change.
ywy2
perhaps Blackcat should perhaps take a look at his beloved New Labour
Or even "her" beloved New Labour!
I think David Bremner does very well, especially being the youngest councillor in the Highland Coucil.
He came to one our last Highland Youth Voice parliament meeting and was very enthusiastic and it was great of him to have come along.
We DON'T need Gaelic on our signs. People who speak gaelic can surley talk English aswell. It's exactly like I said to the Scottish Government. Money is being spent on totally unnecessary things. Spend it on education, something that's going to have a positive effect on the environment (FREE TRANSPORT FOR YOUNG PEOPLE FOR EXAMPLE) Sometimes I wander if young people should take over in the government.
Sometimes I wander if young people should take over in the government.
Sometimes i wonder the same regards Wick Academy Football.[lol]
Perhaps Caithness should demand signs in Norse or even Pictish, both of which are more appropriate to heritage of the area.
David bremner gets my vote everytime! he stands up for what he believes is right & listens to what his constituency wants. not like alot of the local councillors that go with what the rest of the party want.
He always replies to your letters & emails not like alot of the other councillors & he sorts out problems fast.
well done for all the hard work David:D
Have only just heard about this and am disgusted but not surprised. David Bremner is by far one of our best councillors - he is intelligent, conscientious and never afraid to stand up for what he believes is right for Caithness. The story is in the P&J today http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/570024
It's the SNP's loss and says very little for them as a party. Let's hope he goes independent but it is a great pity that he will lose some of his official posts as we need people like him to speak up for us. Local politics is not like national politics. I suggest all his supporters write to SNP Highland and tell them what we think of them.
Cinderella's Shoe
03-Apr-08, 11:17
A lot of people in this thread have shown solidarity and support for Councillor Bremner. I would agree with all - he is a refreshing change, looking after the people who elected him rather than political masters. Its about time that councillors voted for what matters in their constituencies rather than follow what they are told by others in their party many miles away and - in some cases - by unelected "career civil servants" in Inverness. He'll get my vote again no matter who he stands under. He is what this county needs.
I wonder when this decision was taken? Either a little while ago or the SNP website is incredibly up to date. You can enter your postcode to find your SNP representatives and since I live in Landward I tried mine and got this
Councillors
Sorry, there are no SNP councillors in your area
Nor does his name appear in the list of Highland Councillors.
His name was in the list of highland councillors earlier this morning. His own page on the Highland Council web site also showed affiliation to the SNP earlier today but has been updated this morning.
weeboyagee
03-Apr-08, 12:43
Perhaps Caithness should demand signs in Norse or even Pictish, both of which are more appropriate to heritage of the area.
Obh, obh, Jaws!!! Why don't you join the new committee soon to be that will be looking to get Caithness the whole heritage thingy looked at. The only time we hear Pictish or Norse heritage is when we hear someone talk about Gaelic. Other than that we don't here a dashed thing about the Picts or the Norse. Gaelic IS part of our heritage - a rather large part of it actually.
Guess where the next Caithness Branch of An Comunn Gaidhealach ceilidh is going to be? Heh-heh - right on your doorstep Jaws - you coming along? ;)
It is the intention that the Mod committee for 2010 are going to look at promoting the whole heritage thing - not just Gaelic - as they did in Largs in 2002 - where they put Burns and Gaelic together and hosted the main events in the Viking Centre!! Proving that the Ayrshire people are very open minded to their cultural heritage - a dashed site more than us we Caithnessians strangulated by the Ord.
WBG :cool:
weeboyagee
03-Apr-08, 13:05
On another note and back to the original thread - David is an excellent cllr and voted in terms of the electorate and as per my original post at the beginning of the thread this is what is expected of him.
However, ANY party member should know that they are expected to tow the party line. Why is everyone after the SNP for acting the normal way they would - if you dissent against your contract of employment methinks you would loose your job or have to make a personal choice on the direction you have to go.
Politics is a crazy game that doesn't allow for what the individual thinks for the closed minority - it looks to shore up for the majority. The SNP are a National Party - how can we expect them to allow all their members to free vote and speak as they feel when it will conflict with how they see the National interest? Fairly simple to grasp if you ask me - no matter the party.
Joining the independents? Is this a party for the free thinkers? Would love to see their manifesto... a one liner - "Anything Goes". :D No jibe intended.
WBG :cool:
Joining the independents? Is this a party for the free thinkers? Would love to see their manifesto... a one liner - "Anything Goes". No jibe intended
WBG [/quote]
Haven't been aware of very much free thinking going on with Independents in Highland Council!
http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon9.gif
Well, he may or may not have been toeing the party line; and he may have ruffled a few prim and proper feathers... but who will represent the county now? Maybe he was over-zealous?
SNP wont be getting any votes from anyone in our household now.
~~Tides~~
03-Apr-08, 18:12
If this is true, then it just sums up the utter joke that is Scottish politics. I sometimes hope that maybe the America's army will come and invade the Highlands, and give us some democracy.
NickInTheNorth
03-Apr-08, 18:19
However, ANY party member should know that they are expected to tow the party line. Why is everyone after the SNP for acting the normal way they would - if you dissent against your contract of employment methinks you would loose your job or have to make a personal choice on the direction you have to go.
Wrong, wrong and wrong!
The prime duty of an elected representative is to represent his or hers constituents. That is how our democracy is supposed to work.
You suggest that councillors (and I guess by implication MP's MSP's etc) are in some way "employed" by the party of which they are a member. They are not and never should be. An elected representative should represent his or her electorate and while ever they can do that and remain a member of a party then well and good. But the moment there is a choice between representation and lobby fodder for a party it should be representation every time.
It is high time that political parties accepted that there should be far more freedom of opinion within their membership and stop trying to force councillors etc from following central dictats with which they disagree.
thebigman
03-Apr-08, 18:22
I'm sure a lot of folk voted for him because he was standing for th SNP and he would have recieved their backing. It's therefore not unreasonable to expect him to toe the party line.
If I was going to fall out with my SNP bosses I think I would have picked a more appropriate subject to do so such as nuclear power which has far more effect on Caithness than a few road signs.
NickInTheNorth
03-Apr-08, 18:42
I'm sure a lot of folk voted for him because he was standing for th SNP and he would have recieved their backing. It's therefore not unreasonable to expect him to toe the party line.
If I was going to fall out with my SNP bosses I think I would have picked a more appropriate subject to do so such as nuclear power which has far more effect on Caithness than a few road signs.
Excuse my ignorance, but did the SNP's - and more specifically David Bremner's - election publications specifically pledge to introduce gaelic signage in Caithness?
If yes, then I would relectantly have to agree. If not then he's done nothing wrong. In the UK we elect individuals, not parties!
northener
03-Apr-08, 18:42
So, the SNP can't handle any challenges to their way of thinking.
Labour and the Conservatives, for all their faults (imo), tolerated radicals/troublemakers as a necessary evil.
It seems rather odd that a party like the SNP, who are so keen to promote themselves as changing politics and Scotland for the better, are more of an unbending dictatorship than the 'old enemies'. My, haven't they come a long way from the radical, free thinkers they purport to be?
Could this be an example of the SNP deciding that the Far North is an irrelevance as far as they are concerned?
SNP wont be getting any votes from anyone in our household now.You either agree with the politics of the S.N.P party as a whole or you don't, otherwise why vote for their representatives in the first place. That is a very fickle attitude.
If this is true, then it just sums up the utter joke that is Scottish politics. I sometimes hope that maybe the America's army will come and invade the Highlands, and give us some democracy.Sure tides, a few cluster bombs and D.U shells should sort those jokers out.:roll:
northener
03-Apr-08, 18:51
Obh, obh, Jaws!!! Why don't you join the new committee soon to be that will be looking to get Caithness the whole heritage thingy looked at. The only time we hear Pictish or Norse heritage is when we hear someone talk about Gaelic. Other than that we don't here a dashed thing about the Picts or the Norse. Gaelic IS part of our heritage - a rather large part of it actually.
Guess where the next Caithness Branch of An Comunn Gaidhealach ceilidh is going to be? Heh-heh - right on your doorstep Jaws - you coming along?
It is the intention that the Mod committee for 2010 are going to look at promoting the whole heritage thing - not just Gaelic - as they did in Largs in 2002 - where they put Burns and Gaelic together and hosted the main events in the Viking Centre!! Proving that the Ayrshire people are very open minded to their cultural heritage - a dashed site more than us we Caithnessians strangulated by the Ord.
WBG
WBG, because an area welcomes a Gaelic festival with open arms, it doesn't necessarily mean that that community is part of the Gaelic culture.
I'm sure if the Mod was staged in Sheffield, it would be received with great enthusiasm...unless you walked in and proclaimed that seeing as they like the Gaelic culture, they can jolly well do as their told and be overidden by all things Gaelic.
As I have stated in the thread on road signage, there are many different languages and remnants of cultures in Scotland. To shove one culture onto an area that overall has little regard for that culture is faintly ridiculous.
To follow this argument, the people of the Western Isles and Sutherland should be embracing Doric and Norn on their signs.
As I type, I can hear the choking of Gaels on their horrendous peaty drams, even from Caithness.......
.:Razz
You either agree with the politics of the S.N.P party as a whole or you don't, otherwise why vote for their representatives in the first place. That is a very fickle attitude.
Sometimes their manifestos will change though and when it changes, we may change our vote according to the one we agree with.
If you stand as a member of a political group, then that political group pays the election expenses..or at least that was how it worked when I stood in Moray.
You are TOLD at the interview to become a candidate that you go along with the majority decision. Which part of that is unclear?
At my own interview, I said I'd follow party lines unless I felt that the party line would be against the interests of my area.....but I was thinking about issues more like the nuclear power one cited here, rather than Gaelic signs.
Seems to me there are more important issues to dig heels in about than Gaelic signs.
ywindythesecond
04-Apr-08, 09:34
If you stand as a member of a political group, then that political group pays the election expenses..or at least that was how it worked when I stood in Moray.
You are TOLD at the interview to become a candidate that you go along with the majority decision. Which part of that is unclear?
At my own interview, I said I'd follow party lines unless I felt that the party line would be against the interests of my area.....but I was thinking about issues more like the nuclear power one cited here, rather than Gaelic signs.
Seems to me there are more important issues to dig heels in about than Gaelic signs.
I think you might find that there is more support for nuclear power in Caithness than there is for Gaelic Road signs. Anyway, the issue is the sheer waste of money to satisfy political dogma being forced on a population which does not want it. That seems a serious enough issue to me.
ywy2
weeboyagee
04-Apr-08, 09:47
WBG, because an area welcomes a Gaelic festival with open arms, it doesn't necessarily mean that that community is part of the Gaelic culture.
What on earth are you on about - my point has nothing to do with the festival coming here - it is to do with the history of people indigenous to Caithness, Gaelic speakers popoulating the greater portion of the landmass of our county - nothing to do with the festival coming here in 2010. You will see this in my post on the thread you mention also - didn't you note that?
The next part of your post therefore doesn't follow.
Now - would you care to comment on the correction I have drawn you to now you have got the right picture? Anyone who knows their history of Caithness properly will know what I was getting at.
Anyway - I don't care for the peaty malts (especially Islay!) - more of a Speyside freak myself!
Cheers,... hic
WBG :cool:
weeboyagee
04-Apr-08, 09:57
You either agree with the politics of the S.N.P party as a whole or you don't, otherwise why vote for their representatives in the first place. That is a very fickle attitude.
My point exactly - you know what you're getting into when you stand as the Party's candidate - you can always be an independent. All this nonsense about the SNP bad for doing what any other party has done - yes they have their rebels but different parties deal with their rebels different ways - damage limitation - some of the well know rebels of yesteryear caused untold damage to their political parties and their parties should have axed them LONG before they did.
There is no shame on David Bremner - his character is not diminished by what the SNP did - nor should the SNP have their image diminished - crikey if we all knew when he was elected that these issues were going to come about then a pound to a penny we knew such voting would be dealt with and not let to go us an unchecked example in the party.
The SNP are committed to Gaelic, they are not committed to Nuclear - if you don't like that then why stand as the party representative - simply because you believe in the ultimate "Independence" theory? Methinks this is where the passion of thinking in Independence overules the intellegence of understanding the fulness of the political picture - and that is what the issue is here - nothing to do with Gaelic Road Signs or Nuclear Power! It's a lack of understanding of what's required of you as a member of a party!
WBG :cool:
My point exactly - you know what you're getting into when you stand as the Party's candidate - you can always be an independent. All this nonsense about the SNP bad for doing what any other party has done - yes they have their rebels but different parties deal with their rebels different ways - damage limitation - some of the well know rebels of yesteryear caused untold damage to their political parties and their parties should have axed them LONG before they did.
There is no shame on David Bremner - his character is not diminished by what the SNP did - nor should the SNP have their image diminished - crikey if we all knew when he was elected that these issues were going to come about then a pound to a penny we knew such voting would be dealt with and not let to go us an unchecked example in the party.
The SNP are committed to Gaelic, they are not committed to Nuclear - if you don't like that then why stand as the party representative - simply because you believe in the ultimate "Independence" theory? Methinks this is where the passion of thinking in Independence overules the intellegence of understanding the fulness of the political picture - and that is what the issue is here - nothing to do with Gaelic Road Signs or Nuclear Power! It's a lack of understanding of what's required of you as a member of a party!
WBG :cool:
Take 'party politics' out of local government!http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
Take 'party politics' out of local government!http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
That does make sense - then they could all vote for what's good for the community.
Independence for Caithness!! David Bremner for King!! (I know, I know, just having a silly moment).
weeboyagee
04-Apr-08, 18:03
Take 'party politics' out of local government!http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
Here, here! I'll go along with that one!
WBG :cool:
weeboyagee
04-Apr-08, 18:05
Independence for Caithness!! David Bremner for King!! (I know, I know, just having a silly moment).
Not silly at all - tax free Old Pultney, Immigration under our own control, £1 note gets to stay, all the wind farm energy stays within the county, start up Dounreay again and sell it to the world,... what's so silly? ;)
WBG :cool:
Independence for Caithness!! David Bremner for King!! (I know, I know, just having a silly moment).
Not silly at all - man the barricades :D.
The SNP are committed to Gaelic, they are not committed to Nuclear - if you don't like that then why stand as the party representative - simply because you believe in the ultimate "Independence" theory? Methinks this is where the passion of thinking in Independence overules the intellegence of understanding the fulness of the political picture - and that is what the issue is here - nothing to do with Gaelic Road Signs or Nuclear Power! It's a lack of understanding of what's required of you as a member of a party!
Perhaps David does follow the SNP party line personally - I wouldn't know. Then when he finds out what his constituents want, he is duty bound to represent their views. That's the whole point of people electing him, and that's what he's doing. And he's been doing a great job. Either political parties need to accept that, or party politics should be banned from local elections.
I'm sure a lot of folk voted for him because he was standing for th SNP
Maybe he'll pick up quite a lot of votes next time if he's NOT standing for the SNP?
northener
04-Apr-08, 19:37
Sorry, thought I'd lost this post.
see below.....
northener
04-Apr-08, 19:51
"What on earth are you on about - my point has nothing to do with the festival coming here - it is to do with the history of people indigenous to Caithness, Gaelic speakers popoulating the greater portion of the landmass of our county - nothing to do with the festival coming here in 2010. You will see this in my post on the thread you mention also - didn't you note that? "
Your own words are repeated below WBG.
My comment was that because an area welcomes a festival which involves the Gaelic culture, it does not follow that they are part of that culture. - Which is what you would have us believe is the case with Caithness.
[quote=weeboyagee;368405]
It is the intention that the Mod committee for 2010 are going to look at promoting the whole heritage thing - not just Gaelic - as they did in Largs in 2002 - where they put Burns and Gaelic together and hosted the main events in the Viking Centre!! Proving that the Ayrshire people are very open minded to their cultural heritage - a dashed site more than us we Caithnessians strangulated by the Ord.
WBG :cool:[/quote
With respect, I won't comment further on your views as we are in danger of hijacking this thread.
At least you like Speyside malts, so there is hope for you yet......
.
Take 'party politics' out of local government!http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon7.gifTake centralisation out of "local" government.
Maybe he'll pick up quite a lot of votes next time if he's NOT standing for the SNP?Maybe they voted for him because he had a nice suit on at the time.:lol:
You either agree with the politics of the S.N.P party as a whole or you don't, otherwise why vote for their representatives in the first place. That is a very fickle attitude.The only Political Parties which have members who all agree with every political ideology it has are either very very small or exist in Totalitarian Dictatorships where it is fatal to do otherwise.
If people only voted for a party when they agreed with every single idea it held then there would ve very, very few people voting at all. I know of no major Political Party anywhere in which every single member is in total agreement with everything it does, says or intends.
People in this Country are elected to represent the people who elected them. Unfortunately, over the years Political Parties have tried to enforce the following of Dogma over the interests of a Member's Constituents.
Any Politician who puts the interests of their electors above fawning to the Party Bosses has my admiration for standing up to be counted, whichever Party the person belongs to and I only wish there were more who were willing to do that.
If we want a Political System where the people we return are simply Lobby Fodder to vote as the Leadership tells them then we might as well abandon the system altogether and simply vote for a Party, do away with individual politicians and just let the Leadership of the winning Party do as they wish.
In fact, there are many who would say that already happens with detrimental consequences for the majority of the population.
ywindythesecond
04-Apr-08, 21:57
The only Political Parties which have members who all agree with every political ideology it has are either very very small or exist in Totalitarian Dictatorships where it is fatal to do otherwise.
If people only voted for a party when they agreed with every single idea it held then there would ve very, very few people voting at all. I know of no major Political Party anywhere in which every single member is in total agreement with everything it does, says or intends.
People in this Country are elected to represent the people who elected them. Unfortunately, over the years Political Parties have tried to enforce the following of Dogma over the interests of a Member's Constituents.
Any Politician who puts the interests of their electors above fawning to the Party Bosses has my admiration for standing up to be counted, whichever Party the person belongs to and I only wish there were more who were willing to do that.
If we want a Political System where the people we return are simply Lobby Fodder to vote as the Leadership tells them then we might as well abandon the system altogether and simply vote for a Party, do away with individual politicians and just let the Leadership of the winning Party do as they wish.
In fact, there are many who would say that already happens with detrimental consequences for the majority of the population.
In a nutshell!
Countryman
04-Apr-08, 22:55
David should be congratulated on the stance he has taken on a number of issues, he does not deserve the way the SNP leaders on the Highland Council have acted.
What is happening to the Highland Council as Blackcat has witnessed the independents are SNP controlled but are the leaders really SNP's they seem to be a narrow minded group that states if you do not agree with us you are out.
What happens next what other issues will this leadership attempt to push through to the detriment of the Caithness constituents - who will fights our corner - councilors please speak up.
weeboyagee
07-Apr-08, 17:42
In a nutshell!
What's in the nutshell? Take the point that Jaws is making to the other extreme - vote as you please no matter which party you are in - then why have political parties at all - everyone should be independent.
Political parties have long advocated their manifestos. By and large these are the mainstream ideals that each party promotes and by these they are adjudged to take their place in the varying degress of the political swinging pendulum (centre, left of centre, extreme right etc). Sure, people are elected to put forward the views of their voting public, however if their voting public are unlikely to engage in anti-nuclear rhetoric, support of billingual signage etc, does it not beggar just the slightest amount of belief why they would look to set themselves up for an immediate run-in with their party?
Like I said in an earlier post:
The SNP are committed to Gaelic, they are not committed to Nuclear - if you don't like that then why stand as the party representative - simply because you believe in the ultimate "Independence" theory? Methinks this is where the passion of thinking in Independence overules the intellegence of understanding the fulness of the (your party's) political picture - and that is what the issue is here
If you promote to the electorate that you are an SNP candidate but you don't support some of their main stream policies how on earth can you expect to excuse yourself with a simple get-out clause of "well my constituents come first". Looking before you leap into the Political minefield will tell you that you either conform to the majority of the policies (CERTAINLY if they are mainstream) or you stand as an independent. I simply can't see what's so difficult about that???
If we want a Political System where the people we return are simply Lobby Fodder to vote as the Leadership tells them then we might as well abandon the system altogether and simply vote for a Party, do away with individual politicians and just let the Leadership of the winning Party do as they wish.
Eh?... rather do away with the Political Parties and everyone have a free-for-all voting for the person who best reflects the views of their electorate - it won't be long before you see them starting to get into groups again - it's the culture of Politics. If you are going to represent an electorate that don't want Nuclear Power and don't want Billingual signs then what the heck are you standing for a Party that is in total conflict with that? The SNP didn't hide these two facts - either before or after the last election. Independence may be one thing for the future visionaries, but the local political pitch has a totally different ball being played with on it.
Not often you and I differ Jaws eh?
Where's MacDonald when you need him heh-heh - only kidding!....
WBG :cool:
weeboyagee
07-Apr-08, 17:45
What happens next what other issues will this leadership attempt to push through to the detriment of the Caithness constituents - who will fights our corner - councilors please speak up.
Watch this space - Windfarms. Oh, and anyone who wants to build a 5-star golf course on the Sandy Dunes at Dunnett! :D
WBG :cool:
If we are going to be honest........everybody has political leanings to a greater or lesser extent.
It is naive in the extreme to think that "independent" actually means independent of any political bias whatsoever.
Where I originated independent quite definitely = Tory!
I have no idea, tbh, what the Highland SNP manifesto that David Bremner stood on was.......but in his place, I'd happily have voted against anything provided it was not part of the manifesto I was elected on the back of...and I'd be more than dischuffed if I was dunted because of that.
Wouldn't Labour in Westminster be in a pickle if they expelled every MP who voted against them?
Manifesto promises are to be voted for.......and the rest should be down to constituency circumstances.
Abolish all Whips!!!!!!!!!
Green_not_greed
08-Apr-08, 09:01
Not silly at all - tax free Old Pultney, Immigration under our own control, £1 note gets to stay, all the wind farm energy stays within the county, start up Dounreay again and sell it to the world,... what's so silly? ;)
WBG :cool:
Now you're talking!
Meant to have posted this sooner but if anyone is free and wants to show their support for David, he's due to be chairing the Landward Forum meeting in Castletown Drill Hall at 7.30 tonight (Tuesday). It's a shame more people don't attend these meetings and ask questions - they're quite interesting.
http://www.highland.gov.uk/yourcouncil/yourward/ward04/wardforum/2008-04-08-ag.htm
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