View Full Version : Should methadone users keep their kids?
In my opinion NO....This is another tragedy that could have been avoided..Now i can understand the kids get hold of the drug, but reading this, one of the children is a 3 mth old baby.....They have clinics where they can take there methadone but most users take it home...
Now why is it people with drink problems can have there children removed but it seems that methadone users are keeping there kids....Why, being a drug addict like that dont deserve to have their children until they are at least of the stuff..This is a mad world we live in and i hope these two little boys come out of this ok.....
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1309512,00.html (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1309512,00.html)
That's a shocking story! :(
not only is it shocking but all to common these days.......to many children die by accidently taking the drug, which i think if you are going to stick it in a bottle then at least make it child proof.......................many children have died through this and i am sure many more will.............
This is disgusting. I fully agree with your point in the openeing post!
No! Can't really say anything other than that! I also think that contraceptives should also be put into methadone to prevent any more pregnancies until clean.
I don't agree, any parent who takes drugs (any drug) is putting their child/children at risk, it's an easy decision to make - what do I love more, my kids or drugs?
Sapphire2803
17-Mar-08, 13:03
I lived in a council flat in Havant (a few years ago now), it was a lovely block, everyone looked out for each other, then the woman who lived in the flat under mine moved away. The flat was empty for a couple of months and then a young single girl moved in (not the best use of a 3 bedroomed flat eh?). I recognised the girl, her family was the source of a lot of problems on the estate, everyone knew the family name and never for good reasons. I didn't know much about the girl and didn't want to judge her by the behaviour of her brothers, so I and others, tried to make her feel welcome.
Everything was fine for a couple of weeks and then it all went downhill. She had freely admitted that she was on a methadone program, I had no problem with that, she seemed to be trying to sort her life out. Her friends started to come round at all times of the night and day, a lot of them were young girls with babies in prams. One afternoon, the flat door was open and we could hear a baby crying, we called to see if anyone was home... no answer. We ummed and aahhed a bit and then went in. There was a baby in a pram, but nobody else home. The baby was soaked and filthy and sounded hungry. We took her to my neighbours flat (she had a baby the same age) bathed her, put a clean nappy on her and fed her. An hour or so later, a girl arrived and started shouting the odds, wanting too know where her baby was? We went out and told her that we had her and that we'd contacted social services.
She told us she would burn us out of our homes and then went off somewhere. A social worker arrived and told us that as much as she would love to take the baby there and then, her hands were tied and she would have to jump through hoops first as the baby was well and didn't have any injuries.
Things went from bad to worse in the block after that, with a catalogue of incidents where I and my other neighbours were verbally abused and intimidated on a daily basis. The communal stairwell went from being a nice clean place with pot plants to being a stinking unhealthy open sewer. School runs had to be planned with military precision. My daughter picked up a bottle in the communal garden of the flats and handed it to me, 'Look Mummy, somebody lost their medicine!' It was methodone. I reported it and everything else to the council. Just over a week later I received a letter saying that a complaint had been made. Apparently, I was harassing my downstairs neighbour!! :eek: If I didn't change my ways I would be evicted. Everybody in the block had put in complaints about that flat, when she went to see the council, she told them that she was a poor innocent and that we were all big nasties.
I gave up my flat and rented a house privately
I may well have answered your question very differently before that whole sorry mess.
My answer now is that they should only get to keep their children if they move into some sort of supervised/sheltered accomodation. There should be a warden/social worker on hand 24/7 with keys to all rooms and it should be one chance only.
I'm sure there are folk out there who have made mistakes and sincerely want to turn their lives around and be a good parent, this would give them a chance to put things right, with support. It would also mean that the losers who cause tragedies such as the one in your link would be closely supervised and weeded out of the program.
Oops! I'm competing with war and peace here, so I'll shutup now :)
Boozeburglar
17-Mar-08, 13:36
ANY child can be taken from their parents if they are considered sufficiently at risk; there is no reason to suggest ALL kids whose parents are taking methadone are at risk. Many users and recovering addicts are good parents, you won't hear about those in the news though.
You may as well say anyone taking medication that is potent enough to kill a child should have their children removed.
That makes as little sense.
Is everyone naive enough to think there is money available to provide 'respite' care for all these kids anyway?
changilass
17-Mar-08, 13:37
Couldn't give you rep so outing my intentions here.
Very good post BB
I think good on you for giving a damn about the child and feel that your harassment was obviously uncalled for. I just hope the child is now OK and that Social Services are looking out for her.
Some people are so selfish...I remember watching Trainspotting at the point where, there is what could only be described as a drugs den. A baby is crawling about and ends up dying due to her parents drug use. She runs around screaming but she is so traumatised she takes more drugs!!!!
This is still happening, so I feel that until the methadone user can prove that they are clean, they should only be allowed supervised access to their children.[evil]
changilass
17-Mar-08, 13:42
So you are happy to punish the child because the parents have realised they have a problem and are trying to get help. As already said, social services are streched enough without taking kids from parents who are using the system correctly.
So you are happy to punish the child because the parents have realised they have a problem and are trying to get help. As already said, social services are streched enough without taking kids from parents who are using the system correctly.
I am not punishing the child, just trying to keep it safe until the parents are off drugs. Better to be cruel to be kind. If the parents are commited to coming of drugs then the children will be returned sooner rather than later. Being a parent means putting your child first IMHO.
no i am not saying all parents are bad for doing their best to get off it, but if they have kids should they make sure the kids have no access,to avoid many other deaths...reading some of the other stories on the link page you will see stories of parents giving the child methadone,,,,in this particular instince one is a 3 mth old,so in my eyes giving them it to take home is madness,but if they are given it to take home then it is down to that parent to make sure their children are safe and cant get near it..we lock away harmful household substances for the same reason so why not their drugs.
changilass
17-Mar-08, 13:57
Rather than taking the kids away from the parents would it not make more sense to make methodone users take their medication away from the house.
I know this does happen in some cases, folks have to take it either at the pharmacy or at a specific centre. Social services monitor the families and the users have have a number of un-notified drug tests as part of the contract which allows them to keep their kids at home.
Who decides which drugs you can take and still keep your kids.
Should we take kids from drinkers and smokers, after all both of these are drugs, the only difference is they are legal.
Rather than taking the kids away from the parents would it not make more sense to make methodone users take their medication away from the house.
I know this does happen in some cases, folks have to take it either at the pharmacy or at a specific centre. Social services monitor the families and the users have have a number of un-notified drug tests as part of the contract which allows them to keep their kids at home.
Who decides which drugs you can take and still keep your kids.
Should we take kids from drinkers and smokers, after all both of these are drugs, the only difference is they are legal.
there have been a few cases where heavy drinkers have lost their kids..Its not just drug users,,,but yes they should be made to take it at a clinic...i agree, it should not go home with them, but then some make excuses why they need more, eg, going away for a week, they need a weeks supply, it is given..they take it home and store it at home..easily accessed and obviously easy to open..should they just put it in kiddie proof bottles...
ANY child can be taken from their parents if they are considered sufficiently at risk; there is no reason to suggest ALL kids whose parents are taking methadone are at risk. Many users and recovering addicts are good parents, you won't hear about those in the news though.
You may as well say anyone taking medication that is potent enough to kill a child should have their children removed.
That makes as little sense.
Is everyone naive enough to think there is money available to provide 'respite' care for all these kids anyway?
Good point, I didn't consider medication!
Post first, think later, that's me :eek:
ANY child can be taken from their parents if they are considered sufficiently at risk; there is no reason to suggest ALL kids whose parents are taking methadone are at risk. Many users and recovering addicts are good parents, you won't hear about those in the news though.
You may as well say anyone taking medication that is potent enough to kill a child should have their children removed.
That makes as little sense.
Is everyone naive enough to think there is money available to provide 'respite' care for all these kids anyway?
Most have lost any common sence by the time they reach methadone....it takes months to get off it...Any one who uses any medicine should keep it out of the reach of children, which most sensible people do..But i dont hear many cases of children taking prescribed heart tablets, or angina tablets or the likes....I have all my tabs locked away,,,so why is it these children seem to get access to methadone, because it makes you weiry straight away, maybe they leave the bottle out while they go into their methadone slumber....how many people have actually come of the drug completely, most get it to get them off heroin and to feed their habit, most are not taking it to come off it, i am not saying all do or dont....its down to the individual.....
In this link provided are some effects of the drug methadone, now imo any of these can put a parent in a position where they are not able to look after a child....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone
Boozeburglar
17-Mar-08, 14:14
'Problem families' and 'at risk' children tend to be from a background where social deprivation is prevalent. Drug use, crime, domestic violence, mental health problems, broken families, etc. exist across the board in society, but compounded by poor living conditions and limited opportunity these factors become overwhelming in their effect on outcomes for children.
We have all encountered or heard of issues like the one mentioned where Social Services were unable/unwilling to intervene. Most of us have seen the portrayal of drug use in Trainspotting, New Jack City, etc.
What is perhaps beyond most of our experience is that of fully functioning and socially responsible people, including parents, who just happen to either use 'harder' drugs in a responsible and safe way or are dealing with a problem relating to past use and recovery in a responsible and safe way. (By no means do all heroin users, for example, develop an addiction nor do all suffer restricted 'function', whether as parents or as professionals.)
Drug use is a choice for some, but a symptom of restricted choice for others.
I have no solution to the social problems facing society, but I have a gut feeling that arbitrary Law making based on generalisations is NOT going to be the way forward.
changilass
17-Mar-08, 14:15
Justine can you please let me know your source for the information that 'most are not using it to get off it', I am interested to see the statistics on this.
Thanks
Changi
Justine can you please let me know your source for the information that 'most are not using it to get off it', I am interested to see the statistics on this.
Thanks
Changi
unfortunatley they dont do statics, i just read stories of people taking the drug and not coming off it..watch documenteries on this and alot self admit they dont want to come of it...If i could show you written proof i would....
although after a wee bit of digging around, did find this one....
http://www.tdpf.org.uk/Drug%20policy%201997-2007.pdf
but then after reading this one. it goes on to how long the treatment is...
http://www.medicalassistedtreatment.org/35901/index.html?*session*id*key*=*session*id*val*
In my opinion NO....This is another tragedy that could have been avoided..Now i can understand the kids get hold of the drug, but reading this, one of the children is a 3 mth old baby.....They have clinics where they can take there methadone but most users take it home...
Now why is it people with drink problems can have there children removed but it seems that methadone users are keeping there kids....Why, being a drug addict like that dont deserve to have their children until they are at least of the stuff..This is a mad world we live in and i hope these two little boys come out of this ok.....
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1309512,00.html (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1309512,00.html)A tragic accident indeed but there are no explanations of the circumstances and without knowing them how can you say all methadone users should lose their kids to social services.
A tragic accident indeed but there are no explanations of the circumstances and without knowing them how can you say all methadone users should lose their kids to social services.
those that make sure their kids are safe, then they are doing the right thing, but i still find it hard to see children being safe when irresponsible adults leave it within reach of children...So ok i may have worded this wrong in the start, but i do feel that up to two three years trying to get off the methadone does no-one any favours. Allowing them to take it home is also madness, i mean a 3mth old baby , 3 yr old are in hospital.andone child dead..should these parents have been left with the children to allow this to happen..I dont know where the mother is as i is 2 men that have been arrested....How many will be dead or seriuosly injured by methadone before some reasonable answer comes up...This is only my opinion on this, i have never taken heroin or methadone and dont know what exactly the effects are but reading them i would hate to think anyone taking methadone are left to look after the children without atleast outside help....Some of the effects are astounding...
no....nor should the parents get methadone.waste of nhs money.
then there are alcoholic parents too....the kids suffer so much...should they stay with parents...my opinion ..no.
but where would it all stop????no one is perfect...will not even go to smokers!!!!
Each case is different, and should be judged as such.
Taking a child away from the family should be the last resort, as this kind of trauma is something that a child will possibly always struggle to come to terms with.
I don't think it would be possible to take all kids of methadone user's away from them, as it's been said there are not enough resources for a start. In cases where it does happen I imagine there would be more factors involved than just being on a meth programme such as neglect, offending, family dynamics and such things.
Kids should be kept with their families where possible and even when things aren't great at home I'm sure most kids if asked would want to stay.
I think that the control and use of the drug and aftercare is lacking and this is where things need to be tightened up. Some people stay on it for years, bit like the tales you hear of women being given 'something for their nerves' and still vibrating from valium years later. That's where the focus needs to be.
Shouldn't forget that their are methadone users in all walks of life, some functioning pretty well and holding down responsible jobs and quite normal lives. I think these cases or at least hope these cases are in the minority.
While I do understand where you are coming from I do think it's unfair to tar all methedone users with the same brush. Some of these people have lived with these drugs all their lives and while I'm not justifying the use of drugs to some it's a normal part of their lives as it is for us to have a cup of tea. Without knowing the full reasons for their drug taking I think it's very unfair to judge. Some people are addicted to prescription drugs, that makes them addicts, should their children be removed?? I think each case should be looked at and the child's welfare should be the most important factor. If they are at risk then remove them, even if it's for a short time. Not all addicts are bad parents and you dont have to be an addict to be a bad parent.
those that make sure their kids are safe, then they are doing the right thing, but i still find it hard to see children being safe when irresponsible adults leave it within reach of children...So ok i may have worded this wrong in the start, but i do feel that up to two three years trying to get off the methadone does no-one any favours. Allowing them to take it home is also madness, i mean a 3mth old baby , 3 yr old are in hospital.andone child dead..should these parents have been left with the children to allow this to happen..I dont know where the mother is as i is 2 men that have been arrested....How many will be dead or seriuosly injured by methadone before some reasonable answer comes up...This is only my opinion on this, i have never taken heroin or methadone and dont know what exactly the effects are but reading them i would hate to think anyone taking methadone are left to look after the children without atleast outside help....Some of the effects are astounding...So what you meant to say was only if they are being neglectful and possibly putting their child's life at risk? Why is letting them take it home madness as there are lots of people that have prescription drugs in their homes, anything from anti-depressants to beta blockers, etc? All these drugs or even household chemicals could kill a child so it is always a case of proper storage of these things.
i have to say its quite a difficult question to answer!
Every case is different, some parents are using methadone to come off drugs and some have no intensions of ever stopping drugs! i think if you are taking methadone you should be in some kind of care facility with 24 hour care with someone giving the methadone to each individual.
Atleast if they are in a facility they can be watched, on the other hand if their kids are taken from them, they should only be more determine to stop drugs and get their kids back If they dont try get off them for the sake of getting the kids back then they cant care about them that much anyway and the kiddies would prob be better off with someone else!!
Thats my opinion anyway!!
So what you meant to say was only if they are being neglectful and possibly putting their child's life at risk? Why is letting them take it home madness as there are lots of people that have prescription drugs in their homes, anything from anti-depressants to beta blockers, etc? All these drugs or even household chemicals could kill a child so it is always a case of proper storage of these things.
Thats what i have been saying, but it is more common that children are taken into hospital after taking the methadone.....If they are leaving it about for the children to get hold of then yes i find that irresponsible..All my anti depressents, medicines(Childrens) are stored away up high in boxes where they cant reach...my bleaches are away where they cant find them, infact i do not leave the toothpaste out, as they will eat it....cover the carpet with it...MY home is completely child safe that way, and i do think anyone who has drugs(prescription or not) should store them away safely....
But it seems by the number of small children that die from methadone and not priscription drugs is rising, so where is the fault to lie..The parents, the doctors that prescribe the drug, the social services knowingly allow children to be around ex heroin users and thats what they are..Maybe some want to get their lives back together,and i wish them well, but before they started taking heroin and had kids or even fell pregnant with a child should have seen sence..Children are innocent, ex herion users arent, not all of them ..So yes i still believe taking home drugs especially something as deadly as methadone and leaving it out for children to get hold of is irresponsible, and they dont have the right to put a childs life at risk......I would not, nor would 99% of parents
many people would make an out cry if they knew any children were left with parents that still take heroin because of the effects it would have on a child,so why does it not effect the child when there parents are taking a heroin substitute....as you know thats all it is...an opiate....
Methadone, other prescription drugs, alcohol, violence etc. Unfortunately too many do gooders out there scared of hurting feelings or being sued instead of caring about the kids.
Too be honest, the social group you're referring to only use the kids for the freebies. Doesn't really matter if the kids go as they'll just have another. Get paid to stay in and watch TV/internet/play video games, rent paid, "earn" more than I do for bursting my pan in and even get visits from the social workers to look after the babies while they get "quality time" without background noise. I don't see SW coming round my house to look after the smalls if I fancy some time to be on my own.
All you ever hear is "I can't afford to go back to work". What a system we live in. One day we might actually get rewarded for being good law abiding, hard working folk.
But I doubt it......
martin macdonald
17-Mar-08, 20:40
In my opinion NO....This is another tragedy that could have been avoided..Now i can understand the kids get hold of the drug, but reading this, one of the children is a 3 mth old baby.....They have clinics where they can take there methadone but most users take it home...
Now why is it people with drink problems can have there children removed but it seems that methadone users are keeping there kids....Why, being a drug addict like that dont deserve to have their children until they are at least of the stuff..This is a mad world we live in and i hope these two little boys come out of this ok.....
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1309512,00.html (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1309512,00.html[/quote) but for the grace of God, go i:cool:
Thats what i have been saying, but it is more common that children are taken into hospital after taking the methadone.....If they are leaving it about for the children to get hold of then yes i find that irresponsible..All my anti depressents, medicines(Childrens) are stored away up high in boxes where they cant reach...my bleaches are away where they cant find them, infact i do not leave the toothpaste out, as they will eat it....cover the carpet with it...MY home is completely child safe that way, and i do think anyone who has drugs(prescription or not) should store them away safely....You would need to supply hard facts as to it being more common for children to be hospitilised through the ingestion of methadone than any other prescrition drug. Of course it would be irresponsible and dangerous to leave prescription drugs lying around the same as it would be to leave dangerous household cleaners lying around and I am sure there are lots of people that are guilty of that. Do we take their children away to?
But it seems by the number of small children that die from methadone and not priscription drugs is rising, so where is the fault to lie..The parents, the doctors that prescribe the drug, the social services knowingly allow children to be around ex heroin users and thats what they are..Maybe some want to get their lives back together,and i wish them well, but before they started taking heroin and had kids or even fell pregnant with a child should have seen sence..Children are innocent, ex herion users arent, not all of them ..So yes i still believe taking home drugs especially something as deadly as methadone and leaving it out for children to get hold of is irresponsible, and they dont have the right to put a childs life at risk......I would not, nor would 99% of parentsMethadone is a prescription drug so it would be that more children die from methadone ingestion than other prescription drugs but again you would need to supply hard evidence before you can claim this as being fact.
many people would make an out cry if they knew any children were left with parents that still take heroin because of the effects it would have on a child,so why does it not effect the child when there parents are taking a heroin substitute....as you know thats all it is...an opiate....Nobody would think that children should be in an environment where the parent or parents are taking heroin but that is a bit different from someone that is taking a prescribed drug to get their lives back on track.
TBH we seem to be going round in circles.....Either way we look at it one child is dead, 2 others are in hospital, and 2 men are in jail...the facts of this case seem open to me in the respect the children took it, the men were negligent and so they desreved IMO not to have those kids...
Many parents keep there children safe and that includes some methadone users, but on the link given there are three stories of children dying from taking it, or being given it by those supposed to protect them...I have to say down right irresponsible..
I would like to be able to give numbers to support my opinions but i can only comment on what i have read in the stories listed, and documentaries i have watched with users telling their stories.....Not nice veiwing, interesting but not nice....
I wish there was a good solution to this problem but that is not gonna happen.....
All this matters if those adults are found irresponsible before it is to late..., no one knows the true horrors addicts and children must face day in day out, not a life for anyone...but they choose their lives, children dont....
TBH we seem to be going round in circles.....Either way we look at it one child is dead, 2 others are in hospital, and 2 men are in jail...the facts of this case seem open to me in the respect the children took it, the men were negligent and so they desreved IMO not to have those kids...
Many parents keep there children safe and that includes some methadone users, but on the link given there are three stories of children dying from taking it, or being given it by those supposed to protect them...I have to say down right irresponsible..
I would like to be able to give numbers to support my opinions but i can only comment on what i have read in the stories listed, and documentaries i have watched with users telling their stories.....Not nice veiwing, interesting but not nice....
I wish there was a good solution to this problem but that is not gonna happen.....
All this matters if those adults are found irresponsible before it is to late..., no one knows the true horrors addicts and children must face day in day out, not a life for anyone...but they choose their lives, children dont....
Police say both men - aged 30 and 33 - have been released pending further inquiries.That was taken from the link you posted. I think we should wait for all the facts to become known before we start the dawn raids on all methadone users.
That was taken from the link you posted. I think we should wait for all the facts to become known before we start the dawn raids on all methadone users.
My sentiments exactly....I did find one link to parental abuse of drugs and the effects it has on children without the added threat of them taking the drugs....This is why it bothers me so much..Children are innocent beings..
http://www.drugpreventionevidence.info/web/Drug_using_parents205.asp
In my opinion NO....This is another tragedy that could have been avoided..Now i can understand the kids get hold of the drug, but reading this, one of the children is a 3 mth old baby.....They have clinics where they can take there methadone but most users take it home...
Now why is it people with drink problems can have there children removed but it seems that methadone users are keeping there kids....Why, being a drug addict like that dont deserve to have their children until they are at least of the stuff..This is a mad world we live in and i hope these two little boys come out of this ok.....
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1309512,00.html
Strange this one, Methadone is a help to come off Heroin, how many children have parents that are addicts that nobody knows about & the sad thing is the people that deal in it & get away with it, where as if you are on methadone or anouther drug you are in the public domain, children should be protectected
Heroin and its derivatives were widely prescribed for post op TB patients in the 50's and 60's.
They took it as part of their recovery and I don't know one who became hooked or dependant as a result...and I have lots of data!
Heroin and its derivatives were widely prescribed for post op TB patients in the 50's and 60's.
They took it as part of their recovery and I don't know one who became hooked or dependant as a result...and I have lots of data!
Data is great
Tell that to the dead ones or there sons
dunderheed
18-Mar-08, 08:45
a few years ago a descision was made by ayrshire and arran health board (now east ayrshire nhs trust) to stop this sort of thing and the illegal market for methadone by making every recipient of methadone take their dailly dose either in their doctors surgery or in their local pharmacists. this to me is a more logical thing to do rather than tie up an allready streched to bursting point social services department
a few years ago a descision was made by ayrshire and arran health board (now east ayrshire nhs trust) to stop this sort of thing and the illegal market for methadone by making every recipient of methadone take their dailly dose either in their doctors surgery or in their local pharmacists. this to me is a more logical thing to do rather than tie up an allready streched to bursting point social services department
Thats the most logical solution.....Dont let them take it home especially if there are children....Unfortunately the good idea of ayrshire and aaran did not always work (oh comes from there), some still couls buy it of others who took it home on the pretence they were going away and needed a weeks supply.....Alot of doctors will give it out regardless if the person asking for it pleads,,,,,Its a tragedy that people get in to this situation but even more when children are exoposed....
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