View Full Version : child murders in jersey
the story of the child abuse/murders in jersey is terriable, i was just looking at it on aol http://news.aol.co.uk/significant-finds-in-jersey-probe/article/20080227100909990020
just wonder how many poor children really suffered there and will the true total ever come out. shocking to think that these people who were supposed to have taken care of these kids treated them in such an evil way, heres hoping that all these monsters are brought to justice.
ciderally
28-Feb-08, 22:10
its a nightmare , 200 past pupils have come forward to give statements, sounds like a real horror
yes this is a terrible story...How many had to suffer from this i dont know...
But i have one question that always is on my lips when something like this happens..
Why has it taken so long for the victims and the witnesses eg, certain workers at the home, to come forward......
I cant believe that someone did not have the guts to open up 5, 10, 15 years ago, some of the witnesses would have been betweens the ages of 25-30yrs of age, and could have come forward..Why NOW....Its like all kept quite and now someone has got them all together and said ok lets do it....By if you knew their were the bodies of children under the place you would surely want to get it off your conscience and let them have a decent buriel and returned to their families...As human is that not called compassion....
young_fishin_neep
29-Feb-08, 02:36
it really is quite scary! it just shows you what some people are capable of! sends shudders down my spine just thinking about what these people have had to go through for so long!
kazzii xxxxx
Many folk who have suffered such treatment feel ashamed and disgusted with themselves for allowing this to have happened and often managed somehow or other to put it in a part of their mind where it is shut away, until someone comes along and opens a door or memory and the hurt comes pouring out.
Often they have thought they were the only person being subjected to this treatment/behaviour, to suddenly discover they are not the only one is often the trigger for these folk to start opening the memories and feel ashamed and hurt and willing to talk about and deal with what they have been through.
Many of these people will have suffered low self esteem, self harming, depression, inability to form normal relationships, without knowing why until all the abuse/whatever is aired. The effects long term will have been horrendous - hope the folk affected can get help to heal and move on with their lives.
None of us can fully comprehend what it must of been like to be in a place like that. Worse than the abuse itself is the fact that those who knew it was going on did nothing about it. My heart goes out to those involved and maybe now as they come forward with their horrendous stories they can be given the support they should have had at the time. Although for some it may now be too late.
The investigation into this started in Oct 2007. They had not got the search warrants into place until this month.
The investigation into this started in Oct 2007. They had not got the search warrants into place until this month.
How has it taken so long to get the warrant..Thats ridiculous....why was one not given striaght away...Have you any links for this....
I was over there in Oct and it was all over the papers then.
Terrible it is - but terrible things happen everywhere.
Who would have thought that the church would be involved in child abuse. And what happened to those responsible? Moved to other areas, abuse not reported to the police, concealment of evidence and paying for the silence of victims...
Suffer the little children....
I cant believe that someone did not have the guts to open up 5, 10, 15 years ago, some of the witnesses would have been betweens the ages of 25-30yrs of age, and could have come forward.That is easy to say if you have never been in that position. It is not a matter of lacking "guts".
The trauma and psychological scars from such things are not long lasting, they are permanent. Once they have been buried it is very difficult to resurrect them.
It is like asking somebody who has been in an horrific accident to do the same thing all over again and suffer the same horrific injuries just so people can see again what had happened to them.
There are also other considerations. If you are the only one who come forward it is easy to dismiss such claims as imagination without proof. If several people get together to complain it is easy to claim they have some sort of ulterior motive and have colluded to invent a story.
The reason why the search warrant took so long to seek would be because victims would have to be traced and their individual accounts obtained separately so claims of collusion could be dismissed. Such things have to be done one step at a time and with a great deal of secrecy. That way you know that if several people give the same or very similar details it is not because they have heard the story elsewhere. Neither can they be asked outright without the risk of there being accusations that they have been "prompted" to make the claims.
Charging around like a Bull in a China Shop is just about the worst thing you can do. Once all the details are common knowledge it is all too easy for people not involved to come forward and claim, "Me too." in the hope of getting compensation and only too easy for those who carried such acts out to claim that the complaints are being concocted from what people have heard in the press.
The full truth will never be known because some people will be so traumatised, mentally damaged or just simply so ashamed that they will never speak up.
To do so in private is horrific enough for them and the thought of such personal traumas being exposed to all and sundry is often far too much for them to contemplate.
That is easy to say if you have never been in that position. It is not a matter of lacking "guts".
The trauma and psychological scars from such things are not long lasting, they are permanent. Once they have been buried it is very difficult to resurrect them.
It is like asking somebody who has been in an horrific accident to do the same thing all over again and suffer the same horrific injuries just so people can see again what had happened to them.
There are also other considerations. If you are the only one who come forward it is easy to dismiss such claims as imagination without proof. If several people get together to complain it is easy to claim they have some sort of ulterior motive and have colluded to invent a story.
The reason why the search warrant took so long to seek would be because victims would have to be traced and their individual accounts obtained separately so claims of collusion could be dismissed. Such things have to be done one step at a time and with a great deal of secrecy. That way you know that if several people give the same or very similar details it is not because they have heard the story elsewhere. Neither can they be asked outright without the risk of there being accusations that they have been "prompted" to make the claims.
Charging around like a Bull in a China Shop is just about the worst thing you can do. Once all the details are common knowledge it is all too easy for people not involved to come forward and claim, "Me too." in the hope of getting compensation and only too easy for those who carried such acts out to claim that the complaints are being concocted from what people have heard in the press.
The full truth will never be known because some people will be so traumatised, mentally damaged or just simply so ashamed that they will never speak up.
To do so in private is horrific enough for them and the thought of such personal traumas being exposed to all and sundry is often far too much for them to contemplate.
I cant argue with that..... have never been in that situation...
I just thought if this happened to children who were maybe 16 at the time and can legally leave the home so dont have to stay, could they not have gone and told the authorities at the time,they could have stopped what was going on and opened up the investigation while the victims were still in the home......
I dont doubt that at the time it was not as common for people to open up to this kind of abuse, and it would take the voice of others to warrant an investigation, but it still leaves the doubt as to why..
If you have gone and know that others are still suffering as a human would you not go to authorities and at least try your best to cinvince them to look into it...I would have thought people would rather have tried and faced the shame than letting others suffer silently...
And i have one more thought on this after catching it on the news earlier...
We are all assuming that the childs remains are from the time period mentioned in the report..
As the building was used in the early 1900,s could we not assume that the bones could be from a child back then..Until they have there evidence there are no direct links that say the body belongs to an abuse victim at the home...I am not saying the abuse was not there, but there are many possibilities to this..
We need all facts before judgement can be made....
That is easy to say if you have never been in that position. It is not a matter of lacking "guts".
The trauma and psychological scars from such things are not long lasting, they are permanent. Once they have been buried it is very difficult to resurrect them.
It is like asking somebody who has been in an horrific accident to do the same thing all over again and suffer the same horrific injuries just so people can see again what had happened to them.
There are also other considerations. If you are the only one who come forward it is easy to dismiss such claims as imagination without proof. If several people get together to complain it is easy to claim they have some sort of ulterior motive and have colluded to invent a story.
The reason why the search warrant took so long to seek would be because victims would have to be traced and their individual accounts obtained separately so claims of collusion could be dismissed. Such things have to be done one step at a time and with a great deal of secrecy. That way you know that if several people give the same or very similar details it is not because they have heard the story elsewhere. Neither can they be asked outright without the risk of there being accusations that they have been "prompted" to make the claims.
Charging around like a Bull in a China Shop is just about the worst thing you can do. Once all the details are common knowledge it is all too easy for people not involved to come forward and claim, "Me too." in the hope of getting compensation and only too easy for those who carried such acts out to claim that the complaints are being concocted from what people have heard in the press.
The full truth will never be known because some people will be so traumatised, mentally damaged or just simply so ashamed that they will never speak up.
To do so in private is horrific enough for them and the thought of such personal traumas being exposed to all and sundry is often far too much for them to contemplate.Well said Jaws and the sooner those involved are brought to book the better. Read about boys town in The USA, that will open your eyes to what a minority of so-called responsible adults can do against children that see no hope of a better life.
percy toboggan
01-Mar-08, 09:09
We need all facts before judgement can be made....
Amen to that...but any subsequent legal proceedings MUST surely take place on the mainland...or at the very least be overseen by Mainlanders.
Why has it taken so long for the victims and the witnesses eg, certain workers at the home, to come forward......
The victim of violence (especially as a child) will bury what happened to them and go to any lengths to avoid dredging it up. And when it does come up, it is like reliving the abuse. That is why a statute of limitations on crimes of abuse (especially of children) should be abolished.
The real story seems more that it is a story that has bubbled under for years. A senator who tried to get it looked into had his microphone turned off, then got a vote of no confidence passed on him. If the authorities choose not to listen then it makes no difference what they are told.
The true horror seems to be that the abuse was covered up, to my mind that is as bad as those who perpetrated the abuse; not least because it is allowed to continue. And those people brave enough not to blot it from their minds are further abused by the very people who should ensure they are properly cared for.
the longer that memories are burried the harder it will be for these victaims to cope now it has all come out, i know what happened to my daughter it took her 3 years and that was hard enough then, but for these poor people who have to go back at least 40 years, i just hope they find the strength to cope.
Amen to that...but any subsequent legal proceedings MUST surely take place on the mainland...or at the very least be overseen by Mainlanders.
Why?
Jersey has a distinct judicial system and body of laws dating back to 1204 when King John of England decreed that Jersey should continue to be governed by its own own laws and customs.
http://www.gov.je/PublicOrderJusticeRights/LawJustice/
If a crime has been committed on Jersey by a Jersey citizen then surely they should be dealt with by the Jersey legal system.
Unless you are suggesting that the Jersey police and legal system is not up to the job?
Jersey is not part of the uk, we are only there to defend the islands...
They call themselves Dependent on the Crown...
But here is a legal link for jersey and the practice for parenting and child care law....
http://www.jerseylegalinfo.je/Publications/jerseylawreview/feb06/JLR0602_Robinson.aspx
Indeed Jersey Law is large and complicated and all written in french (not the website).
So Jersey's chief of police, Graham Power, has been suspended by Ministers after a new inquiry team said no-one had been murdered at Haut de la Garenne.
At a press conference, Detective Superintendent Michael Gradwell had discredited a number of Mr Harper's claims.
• After being examined by British Museum experts, a fragment thought to have been from a skull turned out to be a piece of Victorian coconut shell.
• "Shackles" found in rubble were simply "a rusty piece of metal", with no evidence to suggest it had been used for anything suspicious.
• There was no blood in the cellar, and a bath said to have had blood in had not been used since 1920.
• The "secret underground chambers" were just holes in the floor, "not dungeons or cellars".
• Most of the 170 pieces of bone found in the search came from animals. Three were human and two of these dated from between 1470-1670 and 1650-1950 respectively.
SOURCE (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/jersey/7724622.stm)
Wonder if this casts a cloud over the allegations of abuse made by scores of former residents?.....
It's quite hard to know who or what to believe in these days. :confused
I asked a Jerseyaise friend about this the other day. I've known her for 40 years and she has taught school on the island for the past 30 years. Local opinion seems to be that it's mostly a load of rubbish fuelled by the media.
I've not followed this enough to have an opinion, but why does this sort of thing seem to happen on islands? (Jersey, Orkney being two.)
kitty kat
13-Nov-08, 12:52
how many people have said bad things happened there i think it was about 60 reported in the paper they cant all have lied.
they could not have arrested 2 people both old teachers with no evidence!
there was a picture of one off these cellers in the paper with childs scribblings all over the wall and it showed the said giant bath were children were tortured i did follow a bit of the story
i dont believe the 'childs skull' was a coconut. how can they release to the press this was a skull if they were not sure at the time ?
there are alot of questions in my mind what happened there but imo we will never no the truth
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