Shopkeeper not to be charged with Murder

[bekisman]

Now 'aint that nice? there's this poor chap Tony Singh who runs the Lifestyle Express store in Birleywood, Lancashire, just going about his daily business, when this thug; Liam Kilroe from Merseyside - who incidentally was wanted by Lancashire Police as he had failed to hand himself in after he failed to appear at Preston Crown Court to face armed robbery charges - (Eh? armed robber given bail?). He also had previous convictions for assault and robbery!
Anyway apart from that initial stupidity, Kilroe decides to rob Tony Singh and carries out a violent attack on him with a knife. In the ensuing melee Kilroe gets fatally stabbed with his own weapon.. Tony Singh was "arrested but later bailed pending further inquiries"

Beginning to sound like the usual 'innocent man charged' ..
BUT for a refreshing change, Det Supt Mick Gradwell of Lancashire Police; "This was a violent attack on Mr Singh by a convicted armed robber. My recommendation was that Mr Singh should not be prosecuted and I am pleased that the Crown Prosecution Service has agreed with that." AND the CPS; "Those who use reasonable force in defending themselves will enjoy the full protection of the law" quote John Dilworth, CPS

All it needs now is the name of the fool who gave bail to Kilroe in the first place!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7266555.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7266555.stm)

[unicorn]

Justice actually prevails for once.

[justine]

Yes but does it not then bring into question the farmer who shot dead a thug who had been breaking into his home for years....I cant remember the full story but i know he was jailed for it....He had had a run in with 2 teens who kept breaking into his home and one night he shot one of them dead..So where does the law change for one and not the other....There are many reasonable doubts in cases like this....

[Highland Laddie]

Yes but does it not then bring into question the farmer who shot dead a thug who had been breaking into his home for years....I cant remember the full story but i know he was jailed for it....He had had a run in with 2 teens who kept breaking into his home and one night he shot one of them dead..So where does the law change for one and not the other....There are many reasonable doubts in cases like this....


Justine,

Tony Martin shooting the youth was not classed as reasonable force, he just opened up and blasted at both youths.

[Flair]

he just opened up and blasted at both youths.

Yeah but you can only ask nicely for so long. It's not as simple as:

"Excuse me sirs, but could you please leave my property without a fuss and stop breaking into it? No? Ok, I've ask you nicely, you leave me no choice but to ask you nicely again."

The only person I can think of who'd be able to do that is Ned Flanders.:lol:

[unicorn]

While I don't agree with Tony Martin having been charges and imprisoned either, there is a world of difference between stabbing someone with their own knife that they decided to use use against you, and being premeditated enough to load your shotgun and wait for the next break in.

[purplerain]

I'm glad that justice was done and poor Mr Singh didn't face any charges, its folk like this I feel sorry for, just making an honest living for themselves and getting robbed by some tom, dick or harry at knifepoint! If he hadn't stood up to the thief he could have been killed and the scumbag probably would have got away with it. It's just a shame it'll haunt him for the rest of his life.

[Highland Laddie]

Yeah but you can only ask nicely for so long. It's not as simple as:

"Excuse me sirs, but could you please leave my property without a fuss and stop breaking into it? No? Ok, I've ask you nicely, you leave me no choice but to ask you nicely again."

The only person I can think of who'd be able to do that is Ned Flanders.:lol:

And how about shooting into the air first to show he meant business,
nope, he'd had enough of them so he just opened fire,
can't say i blame him, but it was premeditated.

[justine]

And how about shooting into the air first to show he meant business,
nope, he'd had enough of them so he just opened fire,
can't say i blame him, but it was premeditated.

can it be classed as premeditation..Did he know they were going to burgle his house that night and thought.I will sit here and blast the first behind the door.....Its a contraversial argument....

[TBH]

Bail should be done away with.

[Highland Laddie]

He tried going down the old mental health road to get off with the shooting, also he used an illegal pump action shotgun, while he tried to get a friend to hide another illegal gun before the police searched his house.

[justine]

ok i stand corrected..forget what i wrote....

[Highland Laddie]

I still agree in theory with what you were saying, you should be able to defend yourself, alas i think he just went a little overboard.

[TBH]

Whilst I cannot condone Tony Martin's actions I can well understand them.
An ineffectual police force under the yoke of the bleeding heart liberal element=Tony martin seeing no recourse other than to take matters in to his own hands.[disgust]

[justine]

I still agree in theory with what you were saying, you should be able to defend yourself, alas i think he just went a little overboard.


Yep, and i think i would have got to that stage if i had put up with what he had been through....But not knowing all the facts i am glad that i have now an open mind on this....How long did he get by the way....

[Mclaren]

I think the main problem with the tony martin shooting was he actually shot the guys when they were leaving the property. So in theory any percieved threat was reduced. The kid Fred Barras was shot in the back if I remember the newspaper reporting at the time.

[Highland Laddie]

Whilst I cannot condone Tony Martin's actions I can well understand them.
An ineffectual police force under the yoke of the bleeding heart liberal element=Tony martin seeing no recourse other than to take matters in to his own hands.[disgust]

Agreed, just a pity that it came to the conclusion it did.

[percy toboggan]

Mr Singh has inadvertently done society a favour.
In part recompense for his pain and suffering during what must have been a traumatic ordeal he should be awarded the sum of one thousand pounds from the public purse.

[Dusty]

If there is any real justice, Mr Singh will henceforth be represented by Max Clifford who will obtain lucrative appearances for him on TV and his book will be on the shelves within weeks.

No sorry, I got that wrong, I initially thought that Mr Singh was a lawbreaking ned. However, I am sure that as an innocent victim, he will be allowed to return to obscurity with his reputation unsullied.
;)

[Whitewater]

If I, or any one of my family were to be attacked by a burgler on my own property I would have no hesitation in doing whatever it took to protect myself and mine.

[George Brims]

A friend with the same surname as that shopkeeper once told me "Never get in a knife fight with a Sikh." Obviously no-one told that ned.

[Whitewater]

Thats funny George, I heard that as well. Must be true.

[Blazing Sporrans]

I think the main problem with the tony martin shooting was he actually shot the guys when they were leaving the property. So in theory any percieved threat was reduced. The kid Fred Barras was shot in the back if I remember the newspaper reporting at the time.
Quite true. Were Tony Martin's situation like that of Tony Singh, then the burglar's gun would have gone off while the two were wrestling with it, and Martin would undoubtedly be enjoying a life of celebrity rather than infamy! However, as Mclaren states, Fred Barras was shot in the back while running away from Martin's house after having the gun brandished at him. I certainly agree that Martin was let down by his local constabulary, but that doesn't confer the right to blast away at any potential intruder.

It reminds me of an unfortunate young lad from Aberdeen, who was working in the oil industry over in Texas (Houston if I remember rightly). He had the misfortune to be attacked one night by muggers and then ran to a nearby house for help. Banging loudly and repeatedly on the front door, he woke the terrified householder within (a dentist if memory serves) who shot the young lad dead, through the front door, as he 'assumed' that his home was under attack. Under state law, he was apparently entitled to do so and faced no form of retribution for his actions. Apologies if any of the foregoing is inaccurate, my memory ain't what it used to be :~(

So if you support the actions of Tony Martin (entirely different from Tony Singh, whose life was in immediate danger) move to Texas - you can get away with it there...

[j4bberw0ck]

Noticeable that breaking and entering into houses in the United States seems to be somewhat rarer than in the UK..... :lol:

[Rheghead]

So if you support the actions of Tony Martin (entirely different from Tony Singh, whose life was in immediate danger) move to Texas - you can get away with it there...

I have an old friend who lives in Florida who told me that if someone broke into his house then he would have the right to shoot him and incapacitate the intruder. However, if the intruder survives the shooting, he can then take out a lawsuit for if any excessive force has been duly exercised. But if the intruder dies then the inquest invariably takes the word of the houseowner as the truth. The message is.... shoot to kill any intruders on your property in Florida.[lol]

[George Brims]

Noticeable that breaking and entering into houses in the United States seems to be somewhat rarer than in the UK..... :lol:
You have statistics to back this up? I don't think there is any shortage of burglars in the USA. In fact "home invasion" robberies, where intruders force their way in after someone answers the door, are increasingly common.

I am going to make a wild-assed guess here and assume you are thinking the larger proportion of gun ownership in the US discourages people from breaking into houses. Actually in many cases owning a gun will get you a burglar or two, seeking to steal your gun! And as is clear from the number of children accidentally shot (>>1 per day) there is a fundamental inconsistency between storing a gun safely and having it accessible enough to use in an emergency.