View Full Version : Gender equality?
Whenever the media negatively stereotypes/discriminates men, it's a joke. But if the same situation were to be reversed and women were stereotyped, it would turn into a civil rights movement. It would be hell and thunder and you wouldn't hear the end of it.
Many of the commercials I see portray men as block-headed morons who couldn't set a watch. Then women are seen as domineering, smug, cynical dungeon-masters who absolutely can't stand the guy's stupidity but, lo, she has to because *sigh* he'd die without constant nannying and correction. Reverse the genders in this. Problem! :confused
Why is this? How is any form of discrimination/stereotyping acceptable? And no, using the argument "why was it acceptable against women in the past?" isn't valid because it's hypocritical against this whole movement for "equality". Equality my eye if you use that argument. Equality doesn't mean butchering your former "oppressor" into grim submission and then keep it there, does it? I am all for equal treatment. When I see things like this, I am almost puzzled as to why things so counter-productive are fed to people. It makes the two genders look like they are at some sort of war with each other.
It is an interesting observation and many people are starting to notice this. Is the media's purpose to hit-home a message of gender equality or what?
In your opinion, what is gender equality? What are the motions to achieving it? Does the media create an appropriate message to children and others about gender equality?
In advertising days gone by, we used to see the attractive couple that gets together (nescafe ads a classic eg)but now we are getting to see the geeky lad who nets the unobtainably attractive lassie. They must be trying to convey the message that there is hope for us all I guess. But what you never see is the unattractive clumsy lassie netting the good looking hunk. That is discriminatory I guess.
But if this happened a bit more then I am sure that most of my ex-girlfriends would feel less special, so I suppose it is best left unseen on tv... ;)
porshiepoo
30-Oct-05, 10:55
In your opinion, what is gender equality? What are the motions to achieving it? Does the media create an appropriate message to children and others about gender equality?[/quote]
lol Oh Boy! I couldn't reist this one lol
Gender equality (IMO) is where men know their place and woman rules the earth, in return we allow you the privilege of our company :lol: :lol: Seriously, only kidding there lol
This is quite a sticky topic but to me the words "gender Equality" speak for themselves.
There shouldn't be restrictions put on either sex purely because they are male or female.
However, I for one play on the "I'm only female" point every now and again when it suits me.
This will come as no suprise to some of you lol but I like the concept of the old days. (Only like the concept as I've never had to live it). Where women satyed at home and took care of the house and kids, were protected from the vulgarities of life, when men stood up as you approached a table and opened doors for ladies.
The down side to that is that I'm very opinionated lol and I think I would find it hard to keep my gob shut :) :)
Apart from the obvious differences between men and weeman any other differences are in the eye of the beholder. Muslim women dont see themselves as second class citizens so why should we impose our western standards of morallity and equality on them?
There are many women from history (Elizabeth1, Margaret Thatcher etc) who buck the trend because they didnt see themselves any less equal than men. Germaine Greers The female Eunich pointed out that women themselves were as much their own captors in the equlity stakes.
It would be more beneficial for mankind if womankind were to stop looking for equality and just become equal.
Once they have achieved that state of being whose going to do the hoovering though? :D
Discrimination of any kind is totally unacceptable.
porshiepoo
30-Oct-05, 12:22
Discrimination of any kind is totally unacceptable.
I completely agree.
However, the word 'discrimination' can be exploited and taken completely out of context when it serves the needs of a person.
In your opinion, what is gender equality? What are the motions to achieving it? Does the media create an appropriate message to children and others about gender equality?
lol Oh Boy! I couldn't reist this one lol
Gender equality (IMO) is where men know their place and woman rules the earth, in return we allow you the privilege of our company :lol: :lol: Seriously, only kidding there lol
This is quite a sticky topic but to me the words "gender Equality" speak for themselves.
There shouldn't be restrictions put on either sex purely because they are male or female.
However, I for one play on the "I'm only female" point every now and again when it suits me.
This will come as no suprise to some of you lol but I like the concept of the old days. (Only like the concept as I've never had to live it). Where women satyed at home and took care of the house and kids, were protected from the vulgarities of life, when men stood up as you approached a table and opened doors for ladies.
The down side to that is that I'm very opinionated lol and I think I would find it hard to keep my gob shut :) :)[/quote]
On this matter, I find it really interesting. If a guy holds a door for a girl these days, she'll sometimes act as if he's taking a stab at her dignity as a woman where in fact he is just being nice. The same applies to old people, disabled folk and so on.
I think we live in a day and age where even kind gestures are looked at as a social problem simply because they are courteous to the opposite sex (more so with women).
Apart from the obvious differences between men and weeman any other differences are in the eye of the beholder. Muslim women dont see themselves as second class citizens so why should we impose our western standards of morallity and equality on them?
There are many women from history (Elizabeth1, Margaret Thatcher etc) who buck the trend because they didnt see themselves any less equal than men. Germaine Greers The female Eunich pointed out that women themselves were as much their own captors in the equlity stakes.
It would be more beneficial for mankind if womankind were to stop looking for equality and just become equal.
Once they have achieved that state of being whose going to do the hoovering though? :D
lol! Interesting points. :) I like this. But, what is equality? When have we ever seen total equality in the world or our society? Gender equality seems like a big leap in human behaviour to me and nothing ever seems equal when humanbeings are involved.
So is this a pipe-dream? A passing fad? Or something we're actually capable of regardless of our past failures due to human nature?
Discrimination of any kind is totally unacceptable.
I completely agree.
However, the word 'discrimination' can be exploited and taken completely out of context when it serves the needs of a person.
True! Discrimination to one could be fairness and appropriateness to another. The Nazi Regime for example. But, the predominant view of discrimination in our society is any sort of negative talk/action of another's race, religion, sex and ethnicity.
Example; the predominant view is that using the N-word to describe a black person is considered racist..which is seen as a bad thing. Another view would say this is fine because, some still see blacks as subservient to whites. However, these days we all know this isn't true except for those few. :confused Either way, I think discrimination should be viewed in the definition that most people inherit. Then again, people twist popular definition in small ways within the predominant view. This brings up another interesting observation and might explain why the media has turned gender equality into the denigration of men to glorify women for the purpose of equality. Again, hypocritical. :confused
porshiepoo
30-Oct-05, 21:07
True! Discrimination to one could be fairness and appropriateness to another. The Nazi Regime for example. But, the predominant view of discrimination in our society is any sort of negative talk/action of another's race, religion, sex and ethnicity.
The thing is, there is no boundary between what is acceptable and what isn't. The Nazi regime, as per your example, has to be obvious to everyone was discrimination at it's worse.
But what about names? The N word to me is a disgusting word, but not the actual word, but the meaning that is behind it, and yes it is now socially unacceptable. But what about terms that are used to describe white people in a derogative way? These things don't seem to get the same kind of reaction.
As I said in another thread, when i applied to wick hospital for a job, the application form asked me if I was "white scottish or other white british". Is that classed as discrimination?
As it is I didn't really take it that way but someone else might have done.
The men and women thing is slightly different. It's a known fact that women are capable of using several areas of the brain at one time whilst men use a larger proportion of one area. This in itself probably makes women better at certain things and men at others. Women find it easier to multi task wheras men have more defined muscle mass and are better than most women at physical jobs. That isn't discrimination, it's common sense!
True! Discrimination to one could be fairness and appropriateness to another. The Nazi Regime for example. But, the predominant view of discrimination in our society is any sort of negative talk/action of another's race, religion, sex and ethnicity.
The thing is, there is no boundary between what is acceptable and what isn't. The Nazi regime, as per your example, has to be obvious to everyone was discrimination at it's worse.
But what about names? The N word to me is a disgusting word, but not the actual word, but the meaning that is behind it, and yes it is now socially unacceptable. But what about terms that are used to describe white people in a derogative way? These things don't seem to get the same kind of reaction.
As I said in another thread, when i applied to wick hospital for a job, the application form asked me if I was "white scottish or other white british". Is that classed as discrimination?
As it is I didn't really take it that way but someone else might have done.
The men and women thing is slightly different. It's a known fact that women are capable of using several areas of the brain at one time whilst men use a larger proportion of one area. This in itself probably makes women better at certain things and men at others. Women find it easier to multi task wheras men have more defined muscle mass and are better than most women at physical jobs. That isn't discrimination, it's common sense!
I completely an whole-heartedly agree with you!!!
As you've said about men and women, I agree. Both genders have their strengths! I think society forgets this and confuses this for discrimination. It really isn't. It's just sense and nature. Gender and sex exist regardless of what alot of Liberal media claims.
lol! Interesting points. :) I like this. But, what is equality? When have we ever seen total equality in the world or our society? Gender equality seems like a big leap in human behaviour to me and nothing ever seems equal when humanbeings are involved.
So is this a pipe-dream? A passing fad? Or something we're actually capable of regardless of our past failures due to human nature?
I think equality is a state of mind. History has turned up forerunners in the evolutionary stakes who make me feel optimistic about the eventual fate of the human race. Ghandi and Martin Luther King jnr to name but two. Maybe at the moment it is a pipe dream but I am optimistic about the deepest desires of the human race to grow despite the inhumanities we see in our front rooms every day of the week. Also, I dont believe human nature is a set of universal rules but is a continually changing process.
porshiepoo
31-Oct-05, 00:31
lol! Interesting points. :) I like this. But, what is equality? When have we ever seen total equality in the world or our society? Gender equality seems like a big leap in human behaviour to me and nothing ever seems equal when humanbeings are involved.
So is this a pipe-dream? A passing fad? Or something we're actually capable of regardless of our past failures due to human nature?
I think equality is a state of mind. History has turned up forerunners in the evolutionary stakes who make me feel optimistic about the eventual fate of the human race. Ghandi and Martin Luther King jnr to name but two. Maybe at the moment it is a pipe dream but I am optimistic about the deepest desires of the human race to grow despite the inhumanities we see in our front rooms every day of the week. Also, I dont believe human nature is a set of universal rules but is a continually changing process.
Equality is also a set of values that we all have instilled in us in the enviroment in which we grow up in.
I for one think it's damned charming when a man opens a door for me and lets me through first, if a woman did the same I'd just think it really weird.
When I take my car to a garage, I have to say I'd probably prefer a man to fix it. (that's ignorance probably) and when I eat out I do think women cook better.
These and many other things are just what I grew up 'knowing' to 'be'.
Women can get on pedestals with regards to 'womens rights' but lets face it, if we're out shopping with the other half who gets to hold the bags and put his hand in his wallet or gets to go to the bar and order a meal?
It's a fact that we play on that when it suits us but get up in arms about equal rights when it doesn't.
Equality is also a set of values that we all have instilled in us in the enviroment in which we grow up in.
I for one think it's damned charming when a man opens a door for me and lets me through first, if a woman did the same I'd just think it really weird.
When I take my car to a garage, I have to say I'd probably prefer a man to fix it. (that's ignorance probably) and when I eat out I do think women cook better.
These and many other things are just what I grew up 'knowing' to 'be'.
Women can get on pedestals with regards to 'womens rights' but lets face it, if we're out shopping with the other half who gets to hold the bags and put his hand in his wallet or gets to go to the bar and order a meal?
It's a fact that we play on that when it suits us but get up in arms about equal rights when it doesn't.
Have you ever considered that what you are calling equality may in actual fact be the main reason for all the inequality women may feel when they grow up and are able to think for themselves?
Im not saying theres anything wrong with the picture you paint of gender equality because its a well worn scenario and I wouldnt dare knock it :D but if all women were to allow sexuality and female fragileness to be the drive behind all their contact with men wouldnt it all be a bit false? Especially as you admit to using it as a weapon to get your own way.
Germaine Greer was right. Women have chained themselves to the table leg. They have the keys to unlock the chains themselves though.
porshiepoo
31-Oct-05, 09:26
Germaine Greer was right. Women have chained themselves to the table leg. They have the keys to unlock the chains themselves though.[/quote]
Yes. And there was a time that women were happy to be chained to that table leg. It may have been because it was the way they were bought up to be but it was a way of life that has since evolved.
While I may play on the 'fragileness' of women every now and again, as far as I am aware I don't hypocricise it with outbursts about womens rights. I may wind people up and say thay can't stand women having an opinion but that's really not meant in any way other than a joke. Maybe I should be more aware of the fact that it's not a joke to even suggest that to alot of people as women died for a cause they believe they needed to fight for.
All I'm saying is that I am not offended by the way things are! I think it's good that women and men have different roles (other than the obvious ;) ) in society today, the problem for me is that couteousness also seems to have gone with it.
The way I think may be why women are bought up to feel unequal and unable to voice an opinion, but lets face it, I still believe women and men have their place but I'm hardly shy of voicing my opinion. I may not have mastered the art of it yet, maybe thats due to the fact that my parents were still in the end of an era that didn't speak out, but I think it's more sensible to evolve with time slowly and at it's own natural pace than to want it all, now.
I think true equality for women is about having the freedom to choose to be a stay at home mum if you want or a career woman. I think that its the freedom to choose to be a hairdresser or manage an offshore platform - its about opportunity and availablitiy of choices and not being told you cant do something just cos you are a woman.
Equality within a relationship is an entirely personal matter - some relationships follow traditional roles and those people are happy with that and settled and it works for them. some people have a more "modern relationship" and that works for them. It is about working together to find what fits for you as a couple.
The problems arise when personal attitudes impact on work or when people expectations of a relationship are different. I feel that youngsters born in the 60s and 70s have real issues aound whats expected from them - i have a theory lol
girls born in this time weretold they could have a career and they could have a man who treated them as an equal and would share responsibility. They were told all this by their mothers and by schools
boys didnt get the same messages - no one said to boys at this time "Hey did you know that girls can be anything they want and have a career and ababies and you are going to have to share the household responsibilities" At this time many families where i grew up were still very traditional - dad worked mum stayed at home and these were the role models the guys had. This is not a criticism of men either its just the way things were - thats all
Hit the mid eighties and you find couples getting married with completely different expectations - the girls expected to have jobs and a husband that helps around the house - the boys expected to have the same relationship their parents had - why are we surprised that there is a rise in the divorce rate? Add into this the lack of quality childcare, the rising house prices and you have a generation of women who thought they would have choices and actually havent got any choice at all
I think true equality for women is about having the freedom to choose to be a stay at home mum if you want or a career woman. I think that its the freedom to choose to be a hairdresser or manage an offshore platform - its about opportunity and availablitiy of choices and not being told you cant do something just cos you are a woman.
Equality within a relationship is an entirely personal matter - some relationships follow traditional roles and those people are happy with that and settled and it works for them. some people have a more "modern relationship" and that works for them. It is about working together to find what fits for you as a couple.
I agree.
In my opinion, gender equality isn’t about men and women being seen as the same, because we all know there are differences. It’s about recognising these differences and giving them the same opportunities, choices and ultimately the same freedoms.
This just doesn’t apply to gender, it applies to the other equality ‘strands’: age, race, disability, religion, sexual orientation.
Examples are:
disabled people having the right to enter buildings without hindrance.
same sex couples being treated the same as co-habiting or married heterosexual couples.
people over retirement age being allowed to carry on working.
….. the list could go on.
As has been said before, there are plenty of men and women who are happy to have a ‘place’, that is an individual/personal choice. But it is also down to society, and society’s attitudes, ie how we were brought up, what we were brought up to ‘expect’.
Once society accepts that people have choices, and that people should not be restricted, labelled or ‘pigeon holed’, then the world will become a much fairer place.
Discrimination of any kind is totally unacceptable.
Sounds about right to me. I've seen a lot of it throughout the years, although not to me, here in the USA.
I think we may be missing the point, as I see it the current portrayal, in advertisements particularly, of the woman having the upper hand, is more about encouraging women to part with their cash, to exercise her growing spending power. More women are working full time than ever before and have cash to spend, so big business wants a cut. Nothing wrong with female spending power, it's good for the economy, but advertisers are expoliting peoples happiness by their inflated images of pleasure - in this present context the man can feel inadequate and the woman probably doesn't find any lasting happiness either from buying the latest products. Pretty soon, in a growing number of cases, both will be in too much debt to carry on spending, more misery. Big business controls much of our lives and we just let it happen, we are locked in the inescapable consumer society.
Society would be much better off without advertisements - no playing the sexes off each other, no kids screaming for the latest gizmo, less debt, less need to work all the hours god sends, kids that see some more of their parents and a greater sense of family life.
We need to respect and admire the qualities of the opposite sex, not pit ourselves against them! Well that's wot I fink anyhow!
sshh....listen.... I am all for gender equality, but I can't sit here and talk all day - I need to finish doing the washing and get the dinner on before she gets home or there will be hell to pay.
I agree with daviddd, and think he has hit the nail on the head with his post! :)
Here, here - and I think the key word here is "respect".
Respect for the opposite gender, respect for others with a different colour of skin, respect for people of another age group (older or younger) and respect for those of a different upbringing.
Surely it is ok for someone, regardless of gender, to apply for a job previously considered either male or female orientated; as long as they can do it to the required standard of course.
Same with who does what in the home, workplace etc. It's all down to courtesy and respect in any relationship.
Ann
Tugmistress
03-Nov-05, 00:54
Surely it is ok for someone, regardless of gender, to apply for a job previously considered either male or female orientated; as long as they can do it to the required standard of course.
Same with who does what in the home, workplace etc. It's all down to courtesy and respect in any relationship.
Ann
Ok, I am in a male orientated job, and have been for more years than i have lived and worked up here. As far as my own personal situation goes, there has never been any 'equality' with my work colleagues about 90% of the time :( and certainly even less respect. It has always been mickey taking, put downs, sheer ignorance and even bets on how long I would stick the job!
Women working in a male environment in my experience have a tough time because the men are 'threatened' by this intrusion into their world, whereas as male going into, for arguements sake hairdressing, is thought nothing the less for it.
For most of my working life I have always been in a male orientated working environment, in fact on working it out, out of 28 years working, only about 5 years could be considered as not being in the male environment.
The first 13 years of my working life was in a predominantly female enviroment and i thought it was really catty and a lot of back stabbing went on. The last 5 years however i have been working with men and as for the cattyness and backstabbing ??........ it is 10 times worse here than in the last place. The women in the last place couldn't have been a nicer bunch to work with when i look back now. I agree with tugmistress, men are threatened when they realise we can do a job as well as them. Yeah we may be smaller or not as strong as them but if you have guts and determination that'll get you through!!
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