View Full Version : Hypocritical Tescos.....
I came across this in the news and it makes me laugh..They go on about helping out with the problem binge drinking has on our society but then they sell it at cut prices...
People have been banned from smoking because of the secondary effects of smoking, but what about the effects of drinking..How many innocent people have had their lives ruined by drink,people kicked to death after a night out on the town by some drunk with a problem..
So how can they preach to us about the effects of alcahol abuse, when they are quite willing to sell it at budget prices all because of competition..It should have stayed where you could only get alcahol from on off licence like it used to be....
If so-called responsible adults wish to drink themselves into a stupor, how is that a tesco problem? They seem to have a very strict policy on the refusal of sales of alcohol to underage people and would be subject to very heavy fines, possible loss of license. The till assistant is also liable to be fined and perhaps lose his or her job. If you redirected your anger at the government then you wouldn't be far off the mark.
It was explained on the radio this morning that if Tesco cut their prices people will simply go elsewhere. It would be nice to think that setting a good example would spread to other supermarkets but somehow, call me an old cynic, I doubt it. The competition laws forbid them sitting down with other supermarkets to all agree to raise prices, as this would be a cartel, so unless the government acts there is little they can do.
However high minded we would like Tesco to be, I don't think any company would hand over such a large section of its market to its competitors on a plate.
If so-called responsible adults wish to drink themselves into a stupor, how is that a tesco problem? They seem to have a very strict policy on the refusal of sales of alcohol to underage people and would be subject to very heavy fines, possible loss of license. The till assistant is also liable to be fined and perhaps lose his or her job. If you redirected your anger at the government then you wouldn't be far off the mark.
This is not about selling alcahol to under age drinkers.Not all drinkers are below legal age.It is about them being hypocritical of the fact of selling alcahol at cut prices..They are complaining that they have to put down there prices because of competiton,allowing more alcahol to be sold off a cut prices. maybe if they had a large sum to payout each year for the licence to sell it more shops would think twice about lowering the prices... one takes it you work for tescos...Always applauding all they do...
This is not about selling alcahol to under age drinkng.Not all drinkers are below legal age.It is aboyut them being hypocritical of the fact of selling alcahol at cut prices..They are complaining that they have to put down there prices because of competiton,allowing more alcahol to be sold off a cut prices. maybe if they had a large sum to payout each year for the licence to sell it more shops would think twice about lowering the prices... one takes it you work for tescos...Always applauding all they do...Of course it is a problem with under-age binge drinking, the hospitals have to deal with them on a weekly basis. Tesco take advantage of a lucrative market in sales of alcohol, how does that make them any different from any other supermarket or a corner shop selling alcopops and cider? You make me laugh, just because I have a differing view then I must as a matter of course work for the company. Izz it cos' I iz black?[lol]
Of course it is a problem with under-age binge drinking, the hospitals have to deal with them on a weekly basis. Tesco take advantage of a lucrative market in sales of alcohol, how does that make them any different from any other supermarket or a corner shop selling alcopops and cider? You make me laugh, just because I have a differing view then I must as a matter of course work for the company. Izz it cos' I iz black?[lol]
No i aint racist either, Black white scottish english, makes no difference to me..Your point of view is correct to a point, but if you read the link it states about binge drinking effects on society not underage drinkers..I am not a drinker, used to be but figured out there was more to life that getting blathered at the weekend..
This is about how supermarkets should be helping to cut out the problem of binge drinking, Highering their prices might solve this but as they state it is the competition..it would be easier if they could all come to an agreement on this.They made society safer for non smokers, what aboyut the people who dont go out and get drunk, and end up having trouble from people who insist on getting drunk..Tescos have not made it any harder for people to go and buy alcaohol at their outlets, they cause so much of the problem. I shop there and notuce 2 cratesof lager for the price of one. how does this help..
No doubt there will be more laws, more initiative and more think-tanks. This will result in more taxation on alcohol………..but the problem will still persist.
There are already laws which prevent the sale of alcohol to those under-age. They are ignored and not enforced.
There are already laws regarding drinking in public places, they are ignored and not enforced.
I go to Europe and I find alcohol cheaper in Supermarkets than I do in the UK – I don’t see the same problems of Neds congregating on street corners drinking cans of 8-Ace and swigging from bottles of Buckfast.
I go across to Bahrain and I can buy a pint cheaper than I can in the UK – I don’t see the same level of trouble in pubs/clubs as I do in the UK.
This is a cultural problem, and has little to do with the cost of alcohol – it is to do with peoples morals, standards, behavior and education……..all of which are in terminal decline in the UK.
No doubt there will be more laws, more initiative and more think-tanks. This will result in more taxation on alcohol………..but the problem will still persist.
There are already laws which prevent the sale of alcohol to those under-age. They are ignored and not enforced.
There are already laws regarding drinking in public places, they are ignored and not enforced.
I go to Europe and I find alcohol cheaper in Supermarkets than I do in the UK – I don’t see the same problems of Neds congregating on street corners drinking cans of 8-Ace and swigging from bottles of Buckfast.
I go across to Bahrain and I can buy a pint cheaper than I can in the UK – I don’t see the same level of trouble in pubs/clubs as I do in the UK.
This is a cultural problem, and has little to do with the cost of alcohol – it is to do with peoples morals, standards, behavior and education……..all of which are in terminal decline in the UK.
I am i complete agreement with you scotsboy..It does seem to be the culture of britain that causes the problems..But most of the trouble makers are like lambs without a drink, but give them a drink, they become Atilla the hun, take on anyone, without regards to people at all..
I personally think it should have more laws placed and upheld,
I just think that tescos, who are the one shouting about this are hypocritical in what they say..On one hand they want to help buit then they wont take the lead and show other supermarket chains and storeaos alike how to approach this problem , for fear of falling sales and their own bank balance.I am sure that they can afford to work out this problem so they dont lose to much on their sales and still manage to help our culture, well those that want a better life..
I remember being able to go out, walk home without the fear of being attacked,not these days...:confused
No i aint racist either, Black white scottish english, makes no difference to me..Your point of view is correct to a point, but if you read the link it states about binge drinking effects on society not underage drinkers..I am not a drinker, used to be but figured out there was more to life that getting blathered at the weekend..
This is about how supermarkets should be helping to cut out the problem of binge drinking, Highering their prices might solve this but as they state it is the competition..it would be easier if they could all come to an agreement on this.They made society safer for non smokers, what aboyut the people who dont go out and get drunk, and end up having trouble from people who insist on getting drunk..Tescos have not made it any harder for people to go and buy alcaohol at their outlets, they cause so much of the problem. I shop there and notuce 2 cratesof lager for the price of one. how does this help..Now you are getting it. It's not about Tesco in particular as all supermarkets sell certain alcoholic drinks at cut-prices and they are not operating illegally. It is up to the government to address this problem as the supermarkets being in the profit business are going to continue selling alcohol at competitive prices as long as they are allowed to do so.
I remember being able to go out, walk home without the fear of being attacked,not these days...:confusedWas after bible John or the Yorkshire ripper?
Now you are getting it. It's not about Tesco in particular as all supermarkets sell certain alcoholic drinks at cut-prices and they are not operating illegally. It is up to the government to address this problem as the supermarkets being in the profit business are going to continue selling alcohol at competitive prices as long as they are allowed to do so.
I got it when i started the thread. Tescos have announced this, this morning, but then i can gaurentee that when i go there later today i will still see signs for 2 for 1 offers...
You brought up underage drinking, which unfrotunately will never go away while they can still get some nut to go by the stuff for them..
But i still find it a tadge off that they blame the government for not doing more when all they want to do is help, but not lose out on their profits.I call it double standards...I know all supermarkets are at fault but it was the tesco chain that i quoted with the link...
northener
21-Feb-08, 13:22
Sorry Justine, but I have to disagree with Tesco's 'taking the lead'.
As TBH and others have pointed out, all that would happen is drinkers would buy elsewhere. This is one of the joys of having a free market.
If you wish to raise the price of alcohol, then the Government is the only one capable of doing this. That way prices would go up across the board and not unfairly penalise one sector of the market. Would this change the youngs' attitude to drink? I think not.
I could always find money for a night out when I was a lad, I'm sure nothing has changed there....
A possible route would be for the Government to 'lean' on manufacturers to dissuade them from targetting younger drinkers with endless gimmicky sweet drinks. This market is a phenomena that simply did not exist 20 years ago.
People have drunk too much for generations, It is the market focus that has shifted on to convincing a market that is short on life experience but rich in cash that guzzling alcohol soaked sweeties is the only way to be 'cool' on a night out.
To me, it's more to do with cynical market manipulation by the drinks industry as a whole that leads us towards an almost Hogartharian picture of modern Britain. Not the prices charged by the retailers.
If that was the case, then why doesn't the Continent (where drink is invariably cheaper than here in good old Blighty) have the same problems?
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I got it when i started the thread. Tescos have announced this, this morning, but then i can gaurentee that when i go there later today i will still see signs for 2 for 1 offers...
You brought up underage drinking, which unfrotunately will never go away while they can still get some nut to go by the stuff for them..
But i still find it a tadge off that they blame the government for not doing more when all they want to do is help, but not lose out on their profits.I call it double standards...I know all supermarkets are at fault but it was the tesco chain that i quoted with the link...It is double standards but profit comes before anything else with these companies be in no doubt of that.
Why is all this just about Tesco, are you telling me that the coop isn't doing the same? Seems to me some people just like to moan about anything on here:roll:
that i quoted with the link...
Am I missing something? I don't see any link about Tesco's.
Anyway, if someone is determined to binge drink, they tend to do so regardless of price. Why should alcohol become unaffordable to sensible drinkers because 'problem drinkers' exist?
People that cause problems after binge drinking tend to do so because of deeper rooted problems!
DeHaviLand
21-Feb-08, 13:28
Now you are getting it. It's not about Tesco in particular as all supermarkets sell certain alcoholic drinks at cut-prices and they are not operating illegally. It is up to the government to address this problem as the supermarkets being in the profit business are going to continue selling alcohol at competitive prices as long as they are allowed to do so.
Which is precisely what the thread is about, and is precisely the point that Tesco are making. Though I think the fact that Justines link hasn't come through is whats leading to confusion.
Why is all this just about Tesco, are you telling me that the coop isn't doing the same? Seems to me some people just like to moan about anything on here:roll:
I think Tesco in the UK have said they want to start discussions on the pricing of alcohol, under the guise of trying to assist in the eradication of the binge drinking culture. Of course they can't go it alone as people would just buy from their competitors.
I dont see Tesco as being hypocritical, just mercenary.
Sorry Justine, but I have to disagree with Tesco's 'taking the lead'.
As TBH and others have pointed out, all that would happen is drinkers would buy elsewhere. This is one of the joys of having a free market.
If you wish to raise the price of alcohol, then the Government is the only one capable of doing this. That way prices would go up across the board and not unfairly penalise one sector of the market. Would this change the youngs' attitude to drink? I think not.
I could always find money for a night out when I was a lad, I'm sure nothing has changed there....
A possible route would be for the Government to 'lean' on manufacturers to dissuade them from targetting younger drinkers with endless gimmicky sweet drinks. This market is a phenomena that simply did not exist 20 years ago.
People have drunk too much for generations, It is the market focus that has shifted on to convincing a market that is short on life experience but rich in cash that guzzling alcohol soaked sweeties is the only way to be 'cool' on a night out.
To me, it's more to do with cynical market manipulation by the drinks industry as a whole that leads us towards an almost Hogartharian picture of modern Britain. Not the prices charged by the retailers.
If that was the case, then why doesn't the Continent (where drink is invariably cheaper than here in good old Blighty) have the same problems?
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You light up my life northerner..;)
I agree if tescos stopped selling it at cut prices people would go elsewhere,and yes it is up to the government to raise the prices of alcahol, which infact i believe they do each year.Does this stop them selling it at cut down prices no....they still make it easy for drinkers..
As for young folk finding enough money each week to go out drinking, well how sad.they must have better things to do with money, but will leave my thoughts on that for another day..
As for the aclohol companies themselves, they are all gold diggers. They care nothing about the effects it has on people physically and mentally...They again are in it for profit....As for the government, as long as they can get their whisky and gin cheap they dont care about the rest of the country..
Your comments about there not being this kind of problems in other countries, believe me, things are worse on the other side of the water. Poland, ukraine, Hungary, all have many problems with persistent offenders. No matter what country and what laws are put down, it will be a problem for , well lets just say longer than it has been so far....
Why is all this just about Tesco, are you telling me that the coop isn't doing the same? Seems to me some people just like to moan about anything on here:roll:
Sorry if you think that way but i dont shop in co-op so i would not know what their prices are..Or somerfield..I would ahve to go and see But this was about the link supplied which came from tescos...
I thought the idea of the org was to be able to MOAN about what we think is worth moaning about.................
Am I missing something? I don't see any link about Tesco's.
Anyway, if someone is determined to binge drink, they tend to do so regardless of price. Why should alcohol become unaffordable to sensible drinkers because 'problem drinkers' exist?
People that cause problems after binge drinking tend to do so because of deeper rooted problems!
nO YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT I FORGOT TO ADD THE LINK..wILL ADJUST MY MISTAKE....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1 /hi/health/7254933.stm (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7254933.stm)
northener
21-Feb-08, 13:38
http://www.peterwestern.f9.co.uk/hogarth/hogarth48.jpg
http://www.peterwestern.f9.co.uk/hogarth/hogarth48.jpg
Now is this just weekends or weekly...:lol:
French supermarkets provide a fantastic selection of Wines, and you can also pick up some excellent wines in small wine sellers, or for that matter even fairly large wine sellers – all good stuff, then if traveling by car (anyone who has traveled on the Dover-Calais ferries will be aware of the following) when heading back to Calais you will see places like Eastenders Beer and Wine Sales – aimed specifically at the UK traveler, with the cheapest of the cheap plonk and beer. Wines called Vino Collapso, Hogs Breath etc, Cider called Rocket Fuel or Brain Damage………and it sells by the caseload. Quite why anyone would buy such “stuff” is beyond me – when so much quality wine is available at very reasonable prices.
DeHaviLand
21-Feb-08, 13:47
Thats all very well if you're drinking it for the taste Scotsboy. Unfortunately far too many drink just for the effect:(
French supermarkets provide a fantastic selection of Wines, and you can also pick up some excellent wines in small wine sellers, or for that matter even fairly large wine sellers – all good stuff, then if traveling by car (anyone who has traveled on the Dover-Calais ferries will be aware of the following) when heading back to Calais you will see places like Eastenders Beer and Wine Sales – aimed specifically at the UK traveler, with the cheapest of the cheap plonk and beer. Wines called Vino Collapso, Hogs Breath etc, Cider called Rocket Fuel or Brain Damage………and it sells by the caseload. Quite why anyone would buy such “stuff” is beyond me – when so much quality wine is available at very reasonable prices.
Cant stand the eastenders bar..Cheap nasty place and the beer is worse...I have been to the mammoth hypermarket and i can find alot more things to buy, like the french bread, butter.The alcahol is so cheap, i understand why people go to get it, but at least there is a rstriction on how much you can bring back to the uk..here there are no limits to how much you can buy..Nothing like, So many cases per person, just what you can get in your trolley......
It is not just Tescos at fault. Many places have cut price booze. However, I have to say that some of the offers in Tesco have been ridiculously cheap AND make the customer buy in huge quantities. I single out the 3 cases of Tennents lager for £20 offer as an example. Who would normally buy 60 tins of lager at a time? At 3 tins for a quid, it is ridiculously cheap. I would have thought most people could be blitzed for £4
I have spoken to older people who say that they used to have to save up to get a couple of bottles of spirits for New Year. Now they could get that very easily as a small proportion of the weekly wage.
Any price rise needs to be across the board or somewhere else will simply replace Tesco as the bargain booze bucket.
2little2late
21-Feb-08, 13:57
People will binge drink no matter what price alcohol is. Smokers complain about the price of cigarettes but it doesn't stop them buying fags does it?
If Tesco sold cut price fuel and there were more cars on the roads you would all be moaning about that too and what effect it is having on everyones health and the environment.
To me, Tesco are an easy target because they are such a huge outlet. If people want to binge drink drink they will. It will just add to more booze on the blackmarket if the price of alcohol was raised to try and curb binge drinking.
It is a never ending problem, there is no quick fix and they will get their cheap booze one way or another.
People will binge drink no matter what price alcohol is. Smokers complain about the price of cigarettes but it doesn't stop them buying fags does it?
If Tesco sold cut price fuel and there were more cars on the roads you would all be moaning about that too and what effect it is having on everyones health and the environment.
To me, Tesco are an easy target because they are such a huge outlet. If people want to binge drink drink they will. It will just add to more booze on the blackmarket if the price of alcohol was raised to try and curb binge drinking.
It is a never ending problem, there is no quick fix and they will get their cheap booze one way or another.
You are right.If people do want t o binge drink thats up to them but i think it is down to someone to help lesson it, buy not selling at cut prices...
Scorrie made a good point, who would normally go and buy 60 tins of lager in one shot, Thats just ridiculous...
We can blame whoever about this as it effects all shops, but what can be done, tecos are bringing it up but they have no big answer for us....
j4bberw0ck
21-Feb-08, 14:09
This is a cultural problem, and has little to do with the cost of alcohol – it is to do with peoples morals, standards, behavior and education……..all of which are in terminal decline in the UK.
As TBH and others have pointed out, all that would happen is drinkers would buy elsewhere. This is one of the joys of having a free market.
Well said, both.
I dont see Tesco as being hypocritical, just mercenary.
And of course, the most successful retailer the country's ever seen because it gives people what they want or think they want, when they want it.
silverfox57
21-Feb-08, 14:18
hi not to get away from thread on tesco's but the words binge drinking has only be used in the last few years,as heavy or problem drinking has been used for years.drink is cheaper now than ten years ago,in tesco's or corner shop, where under 18 yrs get some over 21 to get it .will get plenty advise on problem?but no answers as world would be happy place,with out drugs of any form,
To me, Tesco are an easy target because they are such a huge outlet. If people want to binge drink drink they will. It will just add to more booze on the blackmarket if the price of alcohol was raised to try and curb binge drinking.
It is a never ending problem, there is no quick fix and they will get their cheap booze one way or another.Black market Vodka cut with wood alcohol. You can getting blind drunk on that stuff.:lol:
its not just tesco and i think its unfair to blame them.all shops which sell cut price alcohol have to accept the part they have played in the problem. tesco have said for them to raise the price of alcohol then ministers need to change the rules otherwise tesco could be accused of breaking competition rules. in a way it looks like the buck stops with the government. but will they change the rules. after all they are the ones getting all the tax from the sale of alcohol.
j4bberw0ck
21-Feb-08, 14:34
And of course, the most successful retailer the country's ever seen because it gives people what they want or think they want, when they want it.
D'oohh. I'm slow today. Scotsboy, you're dead right - mercenary it is.
What i've just realised is that if Tesco can stop selling booze as a loss-leader, they can sell it at a profit and yet still use it to draw shoppers in. So for them, it's win / win. If sale volumes fall, they still make a profit. If they're not affected they make a bigger profit. Silly me, not seeing that. It's no wonder they're the best there is :cool::lol:
D'oohh. I'm slow today. Scotsboy, you're dead right - mercenary it is.
What i've just realised is that if Tesco can stop selling booze as a loss-leader, they can sell it at a profit and yet still use it to draw shoppers in. So for them, it's win / win. If sale volumes fall, they still make a profit. If they're not affected they make a bigger profit. Silly me, not seeing that. It's no wonder they're the best there is :cool::lol:
Exactly, you really have to admire them, they are excellent at what they do!
People will binge drink no matter what price alcohol is.
That is true up to a point. However, if you look at the price of a tin of Tennents lager in a bar, it is likely to be about £2 or so. For that money you could get six tins from Tesco. Which is more liable to lead to binge drinking?
Also, if you look at underage drinking and consider a youngster with £4 to spend, they could get two tins at bar prices or a dozen at Tesco prices. Which is the more harmful scenario?
If we apply the price differential to cigarettes and envisage a packet costing £30 and a smoker on 40 a day, we arrive at a weekly bill of £420 for the Melvyn Braggs. Who could afford that?
I realise these are speculative figures but the point is that everyone has a limit to how much they can spend.
This is a cultural problem, and has little to do with the cost of alcohol – it is to do with peoples morals, standards, behavior and education……..all of which are in terminal decline in the UK.
Yes, it is a cultural problem. We do have to ask, however, whether the relatively low price of alcohol, compared to the average income, makes matters worse.
If we were to compare alcohol to cocaine and imagine cocaine also becoming cheap, do you think it would lead to more people in general, and younger people in particular, using it?
DeHaviLand
21-Feb-08, 15:03
Yes, it is a cultural problem. We do have to ask, however, whether the relatively low price of alcohol, compared to the average income, makes matters worse.
If we were to compare alcohol to cocaine and imagine cocaine also becoming cheap, do you think it would lead to more people in general, and younger people in particular, using it?
Thats exactly the reason why we have a drugs problem. Cocaine and heroin cost no more today than they did 20 years ago. And yes, more people, and younger people are using it:(
Did anyone look at the charts at the bottom of the link? The age bracket that consumed most alcohol for men was the 45+ age group, not the 16 - 24's. People seem to point the finger at youngsters, but this isn't always the case.
Average units for both men and women were the same in 2006 as 1997 (although there were variations between times)
Did anyone look at the charts at the bottom of the link? The age bracket that consumed most alcohol for men was the 45+ age group, not the 16 - 24's. People seem to point the finger at youngsters, but this isn't always the case.
Average units for both men and women were the same in 2006 as 1997 (although there were variations between times)
Thank you henry20..I have been stating this all through this thread,that this has nothing to do with underage drinkers..I am glad someone else noticed.....
northener
21-Feb-08, 15:39
Figures can be interpreted in different ways.
If I go out 4 nights a week and drink 5 pints per session, I (as a 47 year old) will walk home.
If a member of the lower age group goes out, it tends to be just at weekends, especially Saturday night.
Result? Younger age group may drink slightly less than me - according to 'figures'. When in reality they are drinking a week's worth of booze in one session.
It is this allegedly lower consuming sector of society that will end up face down in a gutter with their knickers around their ankles or brawling their way into the back of a Police van.
'Figures' imply the problem is nothing to do with age, it is - because it is the younger end that guzzle booze over a short period at an unsustainable rate.......
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As someone that used to work behind a bar for 9 years, I have seen plenty drunk and incapables that don't fall into the 16-24 bracket!
In fact I was assaulted by one customer who was almost twice my age because I intervened when a fight broke out between two 30-40 year olds!
all supermarkets need to join forces and stop theses stupid offers of cheap drink little wonder britain is the way it is my god you can buy a bottle of lager for about 1.50 i think it is, i dont drink because i have seen the effects that this binge drinking can do and the hurt it can cause and to be honest i have better things to spend my money on like my 3 kids. but the only problem with that is all the profits these supermarkets make would vanish and they wouldnt want that now would they. but something needs to be done.:(:(
Figures can be interpreted in different ways.
If I go out 4 nights a week and drink 5 pints per session, I (as a 47 year old) will walk home.
If a member of the lower age group goes out, it tends to be just at weekends, especially Saturday night.
Result? Younger age group may drink slightly less than me - according to 'figures'. When in reality they are drinking a week's worth of booze in one session.
It is this allegedly lower consuming sector of society that will end up face down in a gutter with their knickers around their ankles or brawling their way into the back of a Police van.
'Figures' imply the problem is nothing to do with age, it is - because it is the younger end that guzzle booze over a short period at an unsustainable rate.......
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have to agree to to disagree..There must be many youngsters that can polish off alot more drink than the average person.The more you drink and the more often you drink can determine how much you can take and how it effects you..I agree most of the time we hear about youngsters falling all over the place but that is only because we see more youngsters in the streets. However there are many over the age of 30-40 that end up fighting aswell.This is a topic that can do without statistics.
Correct me if i am wrong but when it comes to drink driving it is normally the older generation with the thought, im older i can handle my booze and they end up killing someone...
I know we could battle on about this, as there are so many concerns about drinking laws,that will never be resolved...
northener
21-Feb-08, 15:57
As someone that used to work behind a bar for 9 years, I have seen plenty drunk and incapables that don't fall into the 16-24 bracket!
In fact I was assaulted by one customer who was almost twice my age because I intervened when a fight broke out between two 30-40 year olds!
I'm sure, but if I walk through Wick, Thurso or any other town in Scotland on a night time, I will not see many of the older end causing public order problems.
To use a comparison, there are pleny of old duffers in Caithness who are hopeless drivers and shouldn't be on the road, but it is the sub-25 year olds that crash. Same with alcohol. You'll always get drunken troublemakers at any age, but the majority of public order problems are with the younger end.
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I'm sure, but if I walk through Wick, Thurso or any other town in Scotland on a night time, I will not see many of the older end causing public order problems.
To use a comparison, there are pleny of old duffers in Caithness who are hopeless drivers and shouldn't be on the road, but it is the sub-25 year olds that crash. Same with alcohol. You'll always get drunken troublemakers at any age, but the majority of public order problems are with the younger end.
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I dont doubt that it is the sub 25 groups that crash, but no through alcahol.Thats mainly through inapt driving and speed.
The reason you dont see the older ones fighting at night as they have done ti all in the day and are passed out in their favourite arm chair...
This problem goes further than caithness, scotland.It is world wide...The majority of people who abuse tyhe system of binge drinking maybe the younger ones but it does not rule out the older mmembers of the public...
Age is supposed to bring wisdom, but then alcahol brings disruption to their brains.No accounting for their logic...Oh one more wont hurt..
northener
21-Feb-08, 16:02
have to agree to to disagree..There must be many youngsters that can polish off alot more drink than the average person.The more you drink and the more often you drink can determine how much you can take and how it effects you..I agree most of the time we hear about youngsters falling all over the place but that is only because we see more youngsters in the streets. However there are many over the age of 30-40 that end up fighting aswell.This is a topic that can do without statistics.
Correct me if i am wrong but when it comes to drink driving it is normally the older generation with the thought, im older i can handle my booze and they end up killing someone...
I know we could battle on about this, as there are so many concerns about drinking laws,that will never be resolved...
Regarding young versus old in the 'drunken brawling' stakes - pick up the Groat or the Courier and have a look at whose in court for what. There will be a few over 25's but the majority will be well under.......
Regarding drink drivers, yes the figures are higher for 40 somethings. The reason for that is nothing to do with alcohol intake. It is, as you pointed out, to do with attitude. Thankfully, the younger end seem to have got the message regarding drink driving. One victory on a very long educational road, thank God.
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I dont doubt that it is the sub 25 groups that crash, but no through alcahol.Thats mainly through inapt driving and speed.
This problem goes further than caithness, scotland.It is world wide...The majority of people who abuse tyhe system of binge drinking maybe the younger ones but it does not rule out the older mmembers of the public...
Age is supposed to bring wisdom, but then alcahol brings disruption to their brains.No accounting for their logic...Oh one more wont hurt..
totally agree with this one unfortunatly i have seen 1st habd the effect of binge drinking when one person doesnt know when to stop, but if their whole family are the same you just cant expect them to know any difference, sorry think i am wandering of the subject now. but offers like 3 cases of lager for £18 are going to draw people in especially ones who are on the verge of a drink problem, young, old if effects them all but no more so than the people who have to watch them drink it all and then suffer the verbal abuse that comes out of their mouths, sorry wandering again.
northener
21-Feb-08, 16:06
....
The reason you dont see the older ones fighting at night as they have done ti all in the day and are passed out in their favourite arm chair...
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Disagree, I dont see hordes of middle aged men staggering around Wick in the daytime.....
Disagree, I dont see hordes of middle aged men staggering around Wick in the daytime.....
They just standing outside the bar trying to stand up in the wind....:lol:
I dont doubt that it is the sub 25 groups that crash, but no through alcahol.Thats mainly through inapt driving and speed.
The reason you dont see the older ones fighting at night as they have done ti all in the day and are passed out in their favourite arm chair...
This problem goes further than caithness, scotland.It is world wide...The majority of people who abuse tyhe system of binge drinking maybe the younger ones but it does not rule out the older mmembers of the public...
Age is supposed to bring wisdom, but then alcahol brings disruption to their brains.No accounting for their logic...Oh one more wont hurt..
I disagree TOTALLY.
totally agree with this one unfortunatly i have seen 1st habd the effect of binge drinking when one person doesnt know when to stop, but if their whole family are the same you just cant expect them to know any difference, sorry think i am wandering of the subject now. but offers like 3 cases of lager for £18 are going to draw people in especially ones who are on the verge of a drink problem, young, old if effects them all but no more so than the people who have to watch them drink it all and then suffer the verbal abuse that comes out of their mouths, sorry wandering again.
you are not wandering hun, we did that aboput 20 posts ago..You are right it does not help the younger generation if they see their elders getting plastered and arguing the toss over a family grievance that happened the night before..Many families do buy the special offers together and then get plastered and end up falling out.
Drink is evil IMO please no jumping on me anyone.
So many lives relationships have been destroyed bt it and i hope that they can come up with a logical rightful solution to this ever increasing problem....
I disagree TOTALLY.
Which part.........except all of it....please explain...
you are not wandering hun, we did that aboput 20 posts ago..You are right it does not help the younger generation if they see their elders getting plastered and arguing the toss over a family grievance that happened the night before..Many families do buy the special offers together and then get plastered and end up falling out.
Drink is evil IMO please no jumping on me anyone.
So many lives relationships have been destroyed bt it and i hope that they can come up with a logical rightful solution to this ever increasing problem....my god how right your are, none of my family drink it is my partners family that all drink and it is horriable especially when i am the innocent one minding my own business but end up getting the verbal abuse thrown at me and for my kids to see that just isnt good especially my young son who is going to grow up thinking that this is what men(or so called men) do. so high time they started increasing the price of alchol they put the price of fags up at every budget why not drink to and stop all this suffering:(:(
northener
21-Feb-08, 16:25
At the risk of turning this into a 'yes it is/no it isn't' thread, I don't believe drink is evil.
Same as I don't believe drugs, guns and religion are evil. It's what people do with them that is evil.
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my god how right your are, none of my family drink it is my partners family that all drink and it is horriable especially when i am the innocent one minding my own business but end up getting the verbal abuse thrown at me and for my kids to see that just isnt good especially my young son who is going to grow up thinking that this is what men(or so called men) do. so high time they started increasing the price of alchol they put the price of fags up at every budget why not drink to and stop all this suffering:(:(
i do believe that Alastair darling want to bring in a price of £10 for a license to buy fags, maybe they should put it to alcahol aswell..
As for your son thinking this is norm, not with your wisdom behind him hun, you are there to teach him the values, not your partners family..He will be right with you....
At the risk of turning this into a 'yes it is/no it isn't' thread, I don't believe drink is evil.
Same as I don't believe drugs, guns and religion are evil. It's what people do with them that is evil.
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Have to agree with you on this.
Also, some people don't think they've had a good night out unless they've caused trouble (regardless of how tanked up they are!)
Which part.........except all of it....please explain...
The part about it being a World-wide problem. It simply isn't.......it isn't even a European problem it is specific to the UK.
At the risk of turning this into a 'yes it is/no it isn't' thread, I don't believe drink is evil.
Same as I don't believe drugs, guns and religion are evil. It's what people do with them that is evil.
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Fair comment..I am with you on this..It is the person or people doing it...I used to have a serious drinking problem and had my fair share of fights, but i did wise up.I am not one to call others for the same mistakes i made as that would be hypocritical of me..But i do think more has to be done by the government, shops, retailers and the public to make this problem easier....
i do believe that Alastair darling want to bring in a price of £10 for a license to buy fags, maybe they should put it to alcahol aswell..
As for your son thinking this is norm, not with your wisdom behind him hun, you are there to teach him the values, not your partners family..He will be right with you....aye all i can do is to teach my kids or at least try to teach them the right way to treat people.
as for the £10 licence is that per year or does that last the person named on licence all their lives if it is the latter then is should be slightly more than £10
It made me laugh today....they went on about their commitment to reducing underage and binge drinking etc etc etc on the news today...while the tesco Rep spoke on the news infront of a massive bilboard advertising 3for2 bottles of wine.
Opportunists to the last!!!!!
The part about it being a World-wide problem. It simply isn't.......it isn't even a European problem it is specific to the UK.
How can you possibly say that it is just a british problem...Ok so world wide might not be right as some countries dont have alcahol at all it is illegal to drink,eg. Saudi.But i know, after living in europe for many years that they have just as big a problem with alcahol...I could probably name a few but that would be pointless....
Thats exactly the reason why we have a drugs problem. Cocaine and heroin cost no more today than they did 20 years ago. And yes, more people, and younger people are using it:(
According to this chart. Cocaine is still very expensive compared to beer:-
http://www.economist.com/daily/chartgallery/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9414607
These figures would suggest a cost of about £40 a gram in the UK. I have read that people get through 4 grams a night without difficulty.
Amazingly, in Columbia, a gram of cocaine costs less than a Big Mac. What would the situation be like in the UK if the price were that low here?
northener
21-Feb-08, 16:42
Fair comment..I am with you on this..It is the person or people doing it...I used to have a serious drinking problem and had my fair share of fights, but i did wise up.I am not one to call others for the same mistakes i made as that would be hypocritical of me..But i do think more has to be done by the government, shops, retailers and the public to make this problem easier....
...........Which brings us full circle.
As Scotsboy pointed out, it is a cultural issue more than anything.
And that's not easily remedied, as targetting just one area will not change the others if society still has the 'disease'.
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Highland Laddie
21-Feb-08, 16:42
If alcohol were the only real problem facing the UK i would think us very lucky.
Drinking is a matter of choice, why should a few people on a soapbox dictate what others should do,
Maybe they want everybody out of the pub and standing at the door where they have chased the smokers, where does it all end, do we line up the drug takers, glue sniffers along with them, you have to draw the line somewhere.
Far too many people died fighting two world wars so we could have a free choice, now you want the government to take away that choice.
changilass
21-Feb-08, 16:45
Well I don't think Tesco or anyone else should hike up their prices.
Everyone moans on about the government putting us in a nanny state and then something comes up and folks are complaining cos the government aint babysitting us.
Its about time folks took responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming everyone else.
Why should I have to pay more for booze cos of a few idiots that overindulge.
Allow the police to charge these idiots and impose harsher sentences to act as a deterent to others.
All raising prises will do is raise the number of thefts, folks have to get the money from somewhere[disgust]
Amazingly, in Columbia, a gram of cocaine costs less than a Big Mac. What would the situation be like in the UK if the price were that low here?
A lot of very hyperactive people would be scoring Chicken MacNuggets on every street corner;)
If alcohol were the only real problem facing the UK i would think us very lucky.
Drinking is a matter of choice, why should a few people on a soapbox dictate what others should do,
Maybe they want everybody out of the pub and standing at the door where they have chased the smokers, where does it all end, do we line up the drug takers, glue sniffers along with them, you have to draw the line somewhere.
Far too many people died fighting two world wars so we could have a free choice, now you want the government to take away that choice.
That choice was taken away along time ago highland laddie....we dont seem to have the right to opinionate without either getting hounded or imprisoned.
No-one disputes the fact that it is up to people if they drink,its a free world, but then do the non drinkers who have to suffer the abuse or criminal damage to their property have to put up with it either....
A lot of very hyperactive people would be scoring Chicken MacNuggets on every street corner;)
I have to say that I believe the consequences would be a lot less funny.
all supermarkets need to join forces and stop theses stupid offers of cheap drink little wonder britain is the way it is my god you can buy a bottle of lager for about 1.50 i think it is, i dont drink because i have seen the effects that this binge drinking can do and the hurt it can cause and to be honest i have better things to spend my money on like my 3 kids. but the only problem with that is all the profits these supermarkets make would vanish and they wouldnt want that now would they. but something needs to be done.
As I mentioned right at the beginning of this thread, the supermarkets are not allowed to get together and fix prices. It's illegal. When they are caught doing it they are heavily fined.
Could you switch the bold off please balto - it's making my eyes hurt :roll: (and I haven't been drinking)
Highland Laddie says drinking is a matter of choice. True and if everyone could be trusted to drink in moderation there would be no problem. Unfortunately people who regularly drink a bit too much are likely to end up in hospital costing the NHS (so us) money and those who go completely crazy with it end up turning many places into no-go areas (as Justine says) and killing or otherwise harming people. So it has to stop being a matter of choice for the idiots who spoil things - as usual.
I have to say that I believe the consequences would be a lot less funny.
You're absolutely right.........it was simply the comparison that tickled me.
A lot of very hyperactive people would be scoring Chicken MacNuggets on every street corner;)
Now how hard it is to try and get a Chicken McNugget up your nose..That would be worth seeing...
Well I don't think Tesco or anyone else should hike up their prices.
Everyone moans on about the government putting us in a nanny state and then something comes up and folks are complaining cos the government aint babysitting us.
Its about time folks took responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming everyone else.
Why should I have to pay more for booze cos of a few idiots that overindulge.
Allow the police to charge these idiots and impose harsher sentences to act as a deterent to others.
All raising prises will do is raise the number of thefts, folks have to get the money from somewhere[disgust]
Do you really believe that we are simply talking about "A few idiots that overindulge"
I think you are looking at this very simplistically and without any concept of the real problems alcohol causes.
This link is from a few years ago but it demonstrates the wider impact and scale of the problem.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3121440.stm
ps Do we make all drugs cheap in order that users do not need to steal to feed their habit?
Now how hard it is to try and get a Chicken McNugget up your nose..That would be worth seeing...
Well, if we are going to look on the funny side, it has to be said that, if you do enough coke, you could snort a chicken nugget and it wouldn't even touch the sides. Ask Daniella Westbrook!!
I have even read the thread, but I imagine that the at the end of the day no one really complains about the cheap prices in Tesco.
If they did they would not buy it [lol]
Whilst we still promote drinking as a hobby then there will always be problems.
Besides, old Brownie makes far too much money from booze and ciggies. The only reason they hate drugs is that they dont get any money from them [lol]
A possible route would be for the Government to 'lean' on manufacturers to dissuade them from targetting younger drinkers with endless gimmicky sweet drinks. This market is a phenomena that simply did not exist 20 years ago.
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I am really, really sorry folks but I think I might have started off the sweet gimmicky drinks 20 years ago by adding Cremola Foam to my vodka!! OOps
Well, if we are going to look on the funny side, it has to be said that, if you do enough coke, you could snort a chicken nugget and it wouldn't even touch the sides. Ask Daniella Westbrook!!
I would have thought she would be able to get the full chicken up there, never mind a nugget....
I am really, really sorry folks but I think I might have started off the sweet gimmicky drinks 20 years ago by adding Cremola Foam to my vodka!! OOps
And then please you must tell us what the hell does it taste like. Ive never heard of it....
Justine, Cremola Foam is a flavoured powder that we used to add to water and it would foam up to make a sweet fizzy drink. It was pretty good in the vodka too but you couldn't take many of them. How my teeth survived I'll never know.
Justine, Cremola Foam is a flavoured powder that we used to add to water and it would foam up to make a sweet fizzy drink. It was pretty good in the vodka too but you couldn't take many of them. How my teeth survived I'll never know.
I take it then it is meant as a fruit drink.....Maybe you could start a new trend here grandma...would be cheaper and leave more room on the shelves in tescos...cheaper aswell...
Why single out Tesco?
If you are after offers then see:
Sainsbury's: http://www.sainsburyscalais.co.uk/ (http://www.sainsburyscalais.co.uk/)
coop; http://www.midlandsco-op.com/food/Wines.aspx (http://www.midlandsco-op.com/food/Wines.aspx)
ASDA http://www.winemoneysaver.co.uk/asda-wine-special-offer-promotion-3-for-10/ (http://www.winemoneysaver.co.uk/asda-wine-special-offer-promotion-3-for-10/)
Booths: http://www.booths-wines.co.uk/ (http://www.booths-wines.co.uk/)
Morrisons: http://www.morrisons.co.uk/Offers/Drinks/ (http://www.morrisons.co.uk/Offers/Drinks/)
If pratts want to make themselves legless and cause damage to the one brain cell that's knocking around in their heads, they've got a whole range of 'hypocritical' Supermarkets to choose from, or off-licences.. It's quite correct it's the mind-set of the UK, basically they are not mature or sophisticated or worldly-wise (as in mainland Europe) to treat alcohol with the respect it deserves.
And incidentally: *"Men and women in Scotland are twice as likely to die an alcohol-related death as people in the UK as a whole" - now there's a thought..
*http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6386173.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6386173.stm)
Highland Laddie
21-Feb-08, 17:47
As I mentioned right at the beginning of this thread, the supermarkets are not allowed to get together and fix prices. It's illegal. When they are caught doing it they are heavily fined.
Could you switch the bold off please balto - it's making my eyes hurt :roll: (and I haven't been drinking)
Highland Laddie says drinking is a matter of choice. True and if everyone could be trusted to drink in moderation there would be no problem. Unfortunately people who regularly drink a bit too much are likely to end up in hospital costing the NHS (so us) money and those who go completely crazy with it end up turning many places into no-go areas (as Justine says) and killing or otherwise harming people. So it has to stop being a matter of choice for the idiots who spoil things - as usual.
But then Badger, the same could be said about hill walkers that go out without adequate clothing etc, base jumpers who fall and hurt themselves that not only costs the NHS money, but puts the rescuers lives at risk also, there are lots of comparisons, but where do you stop.
As i said before, two world wars were fought for free choice, lets not be in a hurry to wish them away.
I found this article interesting. It seems to contradict some of the information/views already put forward.
http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/publications/theglobe/globe200603/gl200603_p18.html
But then Badger, the same could be said about hill walkers that go out without adequate clothing etc, base jumpers who fall and hurt themselves that not only costs the NHS money, but puts the rescuers lives at risk also, there are lots of comparisons, but where do you stop.
As i said before, two world wars were fought for free choice, lets not be in a hurry to wish them away.
Well yes, we've had the hillwalkers discussion but they don't go around beating up and stabbing people, or even generally making themselves obnoxious and frightening the rest of the population. At least not usually? I don't have much time for hillwalkers who don't take sensible precautions but that's not quite the same as getting legless on a regular basis. If you walk up a mountain unprepared you may or may not get into trouble. If you regularly drink too much there's no doubt about it.
We're not talking about banning drink - just somehow regulating the excess. If we had more bobbies on the beat instead of stuck in offices filling in forms, life would be so much better in so many ways.
Highland Laddie
21-Feb-08, 19:16
Well yes, we've had the hillwalkers discussion but they don't go around beating up and stabbing people, or even generally making themselves obnoxious and frightening the rest of the population. At least not usually? I don't have much time for hillwalkers who don't take sensible precautions but that's not quite the same as getting legless on a regular basis. If you walk up a mountain unprepared you may or may not get into trouble. If you regularly drink too much there's no doubt about it.
We're not talking about banning drink - just somehow regulating the excess. If we had more bobbies on the beat instead of stuck in offices filling in forms, life would be so much better in so many ways.
I used to drink on a regular basis, well infarct, i used to get legless 7 days a week, and never fell out with anyone, never got in trouble, so tarring everyone with the same brush is a bit unfair.
needless to say, I'm now a non smoker/drinker. but life is good.
As a licensee of many years I have read this thread with great interest.
It has been proposed for some time that measures should be taken to stop the discounting of alcoholic beverages but so far no government has had the nerve to stand up to the supermarket giants.Unfortunately it is not compulsary to pass on the VAT to the customer and this often results in the very low priced special offers along with the fact that for short periods goods are often sold at cost price, known as a Loss Leader.
Some importers and brewers now refuse to supply the large chains as they do not wish to see their products undervalued especially when they have to pay to get them listed and have no guarantee that they will ever appear on the shelves.
Historically these islands have had a problem with over indulgence as the statute book shows with various laws being made over the last one thousand years. Unfortunately these laws are rarely implemented as with the police being overstretched they often do not have the time or man power to be patrolling the streets.
The only thing that will make a difference is if attitudes change and people respect alcohol for the dangerous substance in can be.
Stargazer
21-Feb-08, 20:50
The government is winding up the public, through the media bashing the big chains, in order to bump up taxes on booze and make a nice PC earner now that environmental petrol tax is becoming unpopular.
How much tax should be added to a can of lager to make binge drinkers stop? 1p, 2p? £10?
As I mentioned right at the beginning of this thread, the supermarkets are not allowed to get together and fix prices. It's illegal. When they are caught doing it they are heavily fined.
Could you switch the bold off please balto - it's making my eyes hurt :roll: (and I haven't been drinking)
Highland Laddie says drinking is a matter of choice. True and if everyone could be trusted to drink in moderation there would be no problem. Unfortunately people who regularly drink a bit too much are likely to end up in hospital costing the NHS (so us) money and those who go completely crazy with it end up turning many places into no-go areas (as Justine says) and killing or otherwise harming people. So it has to stop being a matter of choice for the idiots who spoil things - as usual.
well mayby it is high time our goverment did something about it. bold is turned of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Figures can be interpreted in different ways.
If I go out 4 nights a week and drink 5 pints per session, I (as a 47 year old) will walk home.
If a member of the lower age group goes out, it tends to be just at weekends, especially Saturday night.
Result? Younger age group may drink slightly less than me - according to 'figures'. When in reality they are drinking a week's worth of booze in one session.
It is this allegedly lower consuming sector of society that will end up face down in a gutter with their knickers around their ankles or brawling their way into the back of a Police van.
'Figures' imply the problem is nothing to do with age, it is - because it is the younger end that guzzle booze over a short period at an unsustainable rate.......
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.I was just gonna type that, not as eloquently, but my sentiments exactly.:D
i do believe that Alastair darling want to bring in a price of £10 for a license to buy fags, maybe they should put it to alcahol aswell..
As for your son thinking this is norm, not with your wisdom behind him hun, you are there to teach him the values, not your partners family..He will be right with you....Well we all know what a numpty Alistair Darling is. Do you really think that a £10 license is going to stop people smoking? It's just another way for the government to make money from something they are pretending to eradicate.
Well we all know what a numpty Alistair Darling is. Do you really think that a £10 license is going to stop people smoking? It's just another way for the government to make money from something they are pretending to eradicate.
Sounds like he should be working tescos, seems to have the same attitude as them. ,but the idea is there....Sometimes even the numpties come up with something worth a look...you only have to come on here TBH to know that....:lol:;)
j4bberw0ck
22-Feb-08, 14:28
From The Daily Mash today:
PUT UP THE PRICE OF EVERYTHING, SAYS TESCO
TESCO is demanding the government brings in tough new measures to increase the price of everything, its chief executive said last night.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/images/stories/eggx.jpg
A nation torn apart by egg frenzy
Sir Terry Leahy said legislation was necessary to double or treble the cost of all things in shops, except for wages which were already high enough.
He said the low cost of eggs was fuelling an egg frenzy across the nation, making many town centres no-go areas at the weekend because of binge-scrambling.
"No one is against the responsible use of eggs, one or two a day with meals, but we're now seeing an alarming rise in the number of young people who are making their own mayonnaise."
Sir Terry said he was also shocked to discover that chocolate milk was only 20% more expensive than ordinary milk. "Before long people will be adding chocolate milk to their tea. Is that the sort of society you want?"
He added: "If we continue to sell DVD players for £14.99, people will quickly lose respect for the art of cinema. The government needs to act now - what about £149.99? I like that one. It's got gravitas."
Meanwhile Britain's £100,000 a year GPs have called for a massive increase in the price of alcohol to decrease its consumption by everyone else.
Dr Wayne Hayes, a GP from Dundee, said he found it hard to buy a bottle of Talisker single malt whisky in Tesco last weekend because the drinks section was full of 'ordinary people' buying Australian shiraz at £4.99.
He added: "I wouldn't put that on my chips. Why don't they just inject themselves with heroin?"
northener
22-Feb-08, 14:43
Huzzzaaaaahhh!!!!!!
Australian shiraz at £4.99.
He added: "I wouldn't put that on my chips. Why don't they just inject themselves with heroin?"
I wouldn't put that on my chips either. It is a red wine and would make the chips look like beetroot. Yuck!!
I recommend a nice Chardonnay or a lively Sauvignon Blanc for the Pommes Frites.
Humerous Vegetable
22-Feb-08, 15:36
What an excellent reply j4bberw0ck; thank you for making me laugh. I know it's a bit off subject, but I was appalled to read where the Dept of Health are chucking another £19 million at GPs to try to get them to open surgeries when there might be a risk of patients actually being able to get in, like evenings and weekends. I thought that was what all the money in the new GP contracts was for.
northener
22-Feb-08, 15:48
What an excellent reply j4bberw0ck; thank you for making me laugh. I know it's a bit off subject, but I was appalled to read where the Dept of Health are chucking another £19 million at GPs to try to get them to open surgeries when there might be a risk of patients actually being able to get in, like evenings and weekends. I thought that was what all the money in the new GP contracts was for.
Nope, that money was so they could buy a new Volvo XC90 every 3 months.
Jealous, hissy fit?........Moi?:D
Drinking is a matter of choice, why should a few people on a soapbox dictate what others should do,
Far too many people died fighting two world wars so we could have a free choice, now you want the government to take away that choice.
Drinking IS a matter of choice. However, we all pay for the fallout that it causes. I am sure that if the all the related costs of alcohol abuse were added up and individual bills sent to every household to represent their share of the burden, then people would view the matter VERY differently. As it stands, you pay your share without it being tangible.
Some 90% or so of adults in this country consume alcohol and you can bet your bottom dollar that if we were talking ONLY about the smaller number of people with MAJOR problems, then they would be regarded as a pariah.
You talk about the people who died in the two world wars to give us a free choice. How do you think they would view the society of Britain as it is today? Would they be proud of our freedom to get pissed, to fight amongst ourselves, to inundate hospitals with emergency admissions, to harass and extend the middle finger to the public, and to do all this without ever having done a day's work in their life in some cases? Would they look down now at a society capable of making the same, selfless sacrifice for their country?
Free? Oh, yes. Free to forget about those who paid the ultimate price, free to place themselves firmly into the ME culture, free to be SELFISH, rather than SELFLESS.
What an excellent reply j4bberw0ck; thank you for making me laugh. I know it's a bit off subject, but I was appalled to read where the Dept of Health are chucking another £19 million at GPs to try to get them to open surgeries when there might be a risk of patients actually being able to get in, like evenings and weekends. I thought that was what all the money in the new GP contracts was for.On the subject of General practices, how come say 10 years ago you could phone and get an appointment the same day and now you could possibly have to wait a fortnight yet when you go into the practice most of the seats are empty?
I agree to an extent with those that ask why should the sensible drinker have to pay more for their tipple because some people either cannot handle their alcohol or drink themselves into a stupor
Talking about this, i caught a thing on the news the other day that sainsbury in greater manchester have got a gp service in their supermarket, so you can have a health check whilst doing your shopping.So tell me they are not all cashing in.Will find the link and you can read it..Talk about madness...
changilass
23-Feb-08, 00:08
I would have said they were providing a service not cashing in, after all it only works if folks use the service, nobody is forced to.
Sapphire2803
23-Feb-08, 00:55
Ok Madam, if you'd just like to undress and pop this gown on, the doctor will meet you near the in-store bakery.
Aaaarrgghhh.... Run away! :eek:
and for all those that think we dont have a problem.or even a slight problem
may want to read the new statistics of alcahol abuse....
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/skynews/20080223/tuk-24-hour-drinking-violent-crime-claim-45dbed5.html
Love the bakery thing there sapphire, lets hope it does not take on.....:eek:
Highland Laddie
23-Feb-08, 18:39
and for all those that think we dont have a problem.or even a slight problem
may want to read the new statistics of alcahol abuse....
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/skynews/20080223/tuk-24-hour-drinking-violent-crime-claim-45dbed5.html (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://uk.news.yahoo.com/skynews/20080223/tuk-24-hour-drinking-violent-crime-claim-45dbed5.html)
Love the bakery thing there sapphire, lets hope it does not take on.....:eek:
I don't think anyone said there was no problem, but it all depends what reports you read, even the last paragraph of the report you posted says.
A spokesman said: "These figures do not tell the whole story and use shaky methodology.
"A report produced by professional statisticians based on data from 30 forces published in July 2007 showed that serious violent crime (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/fc/crime-punishment.html) over whole night fell by 5% after the Licensing Act came into force with a fall in less serious wounding offences as well."
I don't think anyone said there was no problem, but it all depends what reports you read, even the last paragraph of the report you posted says.
A spokesman said: "These figures do not tell the whole story and use shaky methodology.
"A report produced by professional statisticians based on data from 30 forces published in July 2007 showed that serious violent crime (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://uk.news.yahoo.com/fc/crime-punishment.html) over whole night fell by 5% after the Licensing Act came into force with a fall in less serious wounding offences as well."
And you think that 5% is a great figure. Go back to the link and read the first part where crimes went up by 300% and tell me the difference...
The numbers you quoted came from a professional statistician who obviously forget to mention that it fell by 5% on the night because they were all still sat in the pub using the 24 hr a day licence..............[lol]
Highland Laddie
23-Feb-08, 23:37
And you think that 5% is a great figure. Go back to the link and read the first part where crimes went up by 300% and tell me the difference...
The numbers you quoted came from a professional statistician who obviously forget to mention that it fell by 5% on the night because they were all still sat in the pub using the 24 hr a day licence..............[lol]
Then it just goes to prove, if they were still in the pub, then they were not causing any trouble, quid pro quo.
yeh but after this particular night that the figures were based on,what did they all get up to when they got home after a skinfull also it doesn't mention if it was a weekend or a week day when there cash had all gone and the pubs were empty, HL you have to read between the lines :roll:
maybe the the government should do what they did with smokers and ban alcohol in public places all public places restaurants nightclubs even pubs make them all serve soft drinks,after all smoking was banned in public places because of the second hand effects of smoke.what about the second hand effect of booze,all the drink drivers on their way home,all the drunken yobs who have battered,knifed and killed people...all the spouses that have been battered for nothing ,but then they would still get drunk at home and do the same.
either way it's seems there is no solid solution to the problem..the only solid solution there is to the problem is an outright ban on all alcohol sales....But then people would just make their own.It's truly a sad place we live in :~(
Highland Laddie
24-Feb-08, 00:39
yeh but after this particular night that the figures were based on,what did they all get up to when they got home after a skinfull also it doesn't mention if it was a weekend or a week day when there cash had all gone and the pubs were empty, HL you have to read between the lines :roll:
Router, i can read between the lines, I've been over the lines, under the lines, in the gutter and back again, i know the evils of drink i know first hand the horrors of drink,but i still think it's a personal choice, and there are far worse things out there that should be sorted first.
There are around 6000 deaths by car crash every year
around 1000 pensioners die of hypothermia in Britain every year.
I think that is slightly more than the deaths by drunks in a year.
OK they may be a nuisance, and noisy, but very rarely deadly.
maybe the the government should do what they did with smokers and ban alcohol in public places all public places restaurants nightclubs even pubs make them all serve soft drinks,after all smoking was banned in public places because of the second hand effects of smoke.what about the second hand effect of booze,all the drink drivers on their way home,all the drunken yobs who have battered,knifed and killed people...all the spouses that have been battered for nothing ,but then they would still get drunk at home and do the same.
either way it's seems there is no solid solution to the problem..the only solid solution there is to the problem is an outright ban on all alcohol sales....But then people would just make their own.It's truly a sad place we live in :~(
Very well said...That is the only solution to the problem...I was just reading the news and i noticed that in the half term in England over 200 bottles of alcahol beer and spirits have been removed from children as young as 12...Now how anyone can say that it is not a problem i do not know....
i find it total madness that they can buy or get alcahol at this age, although i know how easy it is getting someone older to get it for them, but getting rid of the demon seed, seems to be the only way around it....But then why would the government do that..They drink more than many and have a future with the proceeds of sales, taxes and consumer spending...Winners in all but the poor people who have to suffer the abuse, damage to property and unprovoked attacks, inside and outside of the drinking establishments....How many people have suffered at the hands of someone who is drunk, innocent women, children, even animals.Give a man a drink and he thinks hes god....
The list is endless. Children removed from their homes because their parents drinking...
On 15 January 2007, the Scotland's Futures Forum (SFF) think tank launched of a new, year-long study on on alcohol and drug use in Scotland. The Futures Forum aims to identify key challenges facing the nation and stimulate debate between MSPs, academics, civic society, wealth creators and international organisations on the ways of meeting them. Its latest study is set against a backdrop of current estimates which suggest that there are more than 100,000 children in Scotland affected by parental alcohol use and nearly 60,000 by parental drug use. Overall themes for the Forum will include education and prevention, regulation and prohibition, improving treatment options, key policy drivers addressing substance use problems and children and young people’s future.
Now that tells me there is a direct problem............
Very well said...That is the only solution to the problem...Banning anything creates a black market, just look at prohibition in the US, oh and when week wis dry.
I was just reading the news and i noticed that in the half term in England over 200 bottles of alcahol beer and spirits have been removed from children as young as 12...Now how anyone can say that it is not a problem i do not know....I thought under-age drinking wasn't a problem?
i find it total madness that they can buy or get alcahol at this age, although i know how easy it is getting someone older to get it for them, but getting rid of the demon seed, seems to be the only way around it....But then why would the government do that..They drink more than many and have a future with the proceeds of sales, taxes and consumer spending...Winners in all but the poor people who have to suffer the abuse, damage to property and unprovoked attacks, inside and outside of the drinking establishments....How many people have suffered at the hands of someone who is drunk, innocent women, children, even animals.Give a man a drink and he thinks hes god....The demon seed? Alcohol is only as good or bad as the person consuming it.
[/quote]
my god saw an advert on the telly last night advertising their 3 for 2 offer on wine as the title of this thread says hypocritical tesco.:mad::mad:
my god saw an advert on the telly last night advertising their 3 for 2 offer on wine as the title of this thread says hypocritical tesco.:mad:
Thing is many purchasers will use this offer to buy a more expensive wine than they could normally consider.....rather than lashings of the cheap stuff.
It makes better economic sense that way.
I for one have 3 rather nice bottles of otherwise unaffordable Tempranillo thanks to the offer which I will be savouring.:D
aye i know some peole will just use this as a chance to stock up on their wine cellers but i was meaning that a lot of people with drink problems will see it as an excuse to drink more.
aye i know some peole will just use this as a chance to stock up on their wine cellers but i was meaning that a lot of people with drink problems will see it as an excuse to drink more.
Which would firmly suggest that the problem lies with the consumer...not Tesco.
Highland Laddie
24-Feb-08, 15:39
aye i know some peole will just use this as a chance to stock up on their wine cellers but i was meaning that a lot of people with drink problems will see it as an excuse to drink more.
This is getting out of hand, just because they sell drink cheap doesn't mean people are going to drink more.
There's 5p of every litre of petrol/diesel sold, i use this, but i don't drive any more than before.
I bought toilet roll they other day, funny enough it was a BOGOF offer, it still doesn't mean i'm going to crap anymore than normal.
aye sure does you know how the saying goes you can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink, but think there really is fault on both sides though
This is getting out of hand, just because they sell drink cheap doesn't mean people are going to drink more.
There's 5p of every litre of petrol/diesel sold, i use this, but i don't drive any more than before.
I bought toilet roll they other day, funny enough it was a BOGOF offer, it still doesn't mean i'm going to crap anymore than normal.
Brilliantly put!:lol:
This is getting out of hand, just because they sell drink cheap doesn't mean people are going to drink more.
There's 5p of every litre of petrol/diesel sold, i use this, but i don't drive any more than before.
I bought toilet roll they other day, funny enough it was a BOGOF offer, it still doesn't mean i'm going to crap anymore than normal.
aye but using to much toilet paper isnt really going to affect you health now is it!!!!!!!![lol][lol]
I bought toilet roll they other day, funny enough it was a BOGOF offer, it still doesn't mean i'm going to crap anymore than normal.Maybe you could get a bogof offer on laxatives to help you use your free roll of bog paper.
aye but using to much toilet paper isnt really going to affect you health now is it!!!!!!!![lol]
You haven't heard the health scare about chemically bleached loo roll then.:eek:
Highland Laddie
24-Feb-08, 15:45
aye sure does you know how the saying goes you can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink, but think there really is fault on both sides though
I agree with you Balto, but the way people are going on about it here, you would think every male person in Britain was on the batter every night, spending all the household cash, then going home and battering the wife and abusing the kids.
Things have got to be put back into proportion here.
is there anything in this world safe to use i am really starting to think it isnt!!!!!
I agree with you Balto, but the way people are going on about it here, you would think every male person in Britain was on the batter every night, spending all the household cash, then going home and battering the wife and abusing the kids.
Things have got to be put back into proportion here.
i for one dont think it is just a male problem i know of a few females who have drink problems as well as males and they can be as nasty as men.
Sapphire2803
24-Feb-08, 15:50
If a person's drink problem is that bad then they don't care how much alcohol costs. Yes they'll take advantage of £1.99 cider from the corner shop, but they won't usually walk as far as the local tesco and they certainly won't spend good booze money on the bus. If you take away the cheap offers, then they'll borrow money, sell their and their "loved ones" possessions and if all else fails they will steal. They will also start working out how much alcohol they get for their pound and move onto cheap vodka and the strong ciders and lagers that are available. The fact that they can get a nice chianti in Asda won't bother them. I rarely see the proper "wino drinkies" e.g. "rocket fuel" in supermarkets although I'm sure they're available. You go into most friendly little corner shops though and they'll have a shelf full of the stuff.
Now who's irresponsible? The little shops tend to know their customers, so they really should know better.
My source for this information? my ex-husband who put me through four years of hell and debt.
I happen to like the offers in tesco, my husband and I will take them up on one of their offers every now and again and it will usually take us about 2 years to get through what we've bought. We're quite partial to those 22p cans of weak lager, takes us a month or two to finish off four cans though. I don't want to be penalised for other people's behaviour. Maybe they should just ban people who cause problems from buying alcohol.
If a person's drink problem is that bad then they don't care how much alcohol costs. Yes they'll take advantage of £1.99 cider from the corner shop, but they won't usually walk as far as the local tesco and they certainly won't spend good booze money on the bus. If you take away the cheap offers, then they'll borrow money, sell their and their "loved ones" possessions and if all else fails they will steal. They will also start working out how much alcohol they get for their pound and move onto cheap vodka and the strong ciders and lagers that are available. The fact that they can get a nice chianti in Asda won't bother them. I rarely see the proper "wino drinkies" e.g. "rocket fuel" in supermarkets although I'm sure they're available. You go into most friendly little corner shops though and they'll have a shelf full of the stuff.
Now who's irresponsible? The little shops tend to know their customers, so they really should know better.
My source for this information? my ex-husband who put me through four years of hell and debt.
I happen to like the offers in tesco, my husband and I will take them up on one of their offers every now and again and it will usually take us about 2 years to get through what we've bought. We're quite partial to those 22p cans of weak lager, takes us a month or two to finish off four cans though. I don't want to be penalised for other people's behaviour. Maybe they should just ban people who cause problems from buying alcohol.drink is such an evil substance if taken by the wrong person, i have expriance not going into detail but it is really hard watching the person you have spent years with slowly killing themselves
Highland Laddie
24-Feb-08, 15:59
Maybe you could get a bogof offer on laxatives to help you use your free roll of bog paper.
I certainly hope not m8, :eek: the offer was on packs of 24.
I certainly hope not m8, :eek: the offer was on packs of 24.Two days on the pan, god help ye.[lol]
Sapphire2803
24-Feb-08, 16:17
drink is such an evil substance if taken by the wrong person, i have expriance not going into detail but it is really hard watching the person you have spent years with slowly killing themselves
For me, after a while the hard part was wishing he'd hurry up!
For me, after a while the hard part was wishing he'd hurry up!
do you know as bad as it may seem i sometimes find myself thinking like that it is such a waste of lives for everyone involved you waste your life on someone who is going to end up killing themselves there you go 2 lives wasted for starters:~(:~(
Sapphire2803
24-Feb-08, 16:46
do you know as bad as it may seem i sometimes find myself thinking like that it is such a waste of lives for everyone involved you waste your life on someone who is going to end up killing themselves there you go 2 lives wasted for starters:~(:~(
I only hung in there for so long, I left for exactly that reason. I was wasting my life on him and I also had my children to think about.
For me, after a while the hard part was wishing he'd hurry up!
I admire you Sapphire for admitting you felt like that. It must have been awful for you. The worst thing about drink is that it changes people. If people could only see themselves and what others have to put up with. It must be like living with a Jeckle and Hyde character.
Highland Laddie
24-Feb-08, 16:56
I only hung in there for so long, I left for exactly that reason. I was wasting my life on him and I also had my children to think about.
Your quite right there Saphire, when i was a complete ass and a waste of space, there were no children in the house at the time, i may have been a lot of things, but now my wife and kids will always come first.
I only hung in there for so long, I left for exactly that reason. I was wasting my life on him and I also had my children to think about.
i tried to get away last year but was stupid and missed him and came back only for things to improve but to go back down hill as fast.
Sapphire2803
24-Feb-08, 17:04
Having spoken to people (mainly women) who have been in the same situation, I would have to say we generally agreed that the absolute worst thing was the embarassment. Seems strange doesn't it? That's the way it is though. You can put up with what goes on behind closed doors, but you spend your evenings worrying that someone may pop round for a cuppa.
What will you say? Oh, he's just really tired, sorry. Then you're lying to your friends and you feel bad for that too. "Sorry, I can't meet you for lunch today, I seem to have lost £10 out of my purse, must've been when I was shopping, silly me"
"Yes, I know, I'm so clumsy, I must stop leaving the kitchen cupboard doors open. I should know by now that I'll only end up walking into them"
Good grief!! :roll:
I refuse to be penalised even more in this life for the behaviour of people like him. Occasionally, I like to relax with a glass of wine, I enjoy it even more if it was cheap, but good. :)
People need to start being made responsible for their own actions, not blaming all and sundry for them.
So, when people are clinically obese and diagnosed with diabetes, should they start suing tesco for selling cheap chips? No, they should not!
It's the same thing you know....
Sapphire2803
24-Feb-08, 17:08
i tried to get away last year but was stupid and missed him and came back only for things to improve but to go back down hill as fast.
You'll get the urge again and you'll try harder, but only you will ever know when you're ready to leave and stay away. Don't let anyone, tell you that you're wrong to go back. It can be a hell of a lot harder than people realise and anyone who's never been in that situation has no idea what they're talking about. Chin up, you'll get there :) Big hugs in the mean time
Router, i can read between the lines, I've been over the lines, under the lines, in the gutter and back again, i know the evils of drink i know first hand the horrors of drink,but i still think it's a personal choice, and there are far worse things out there that should be sorted first.
There are around 6000 deaths by car crash every year
around 1000 pensioners die of hypothermia in Britain every year.
I think that is slightly more than the deaths by drunks in a year.
OK they may be a nuisance, and noisy, but very rarely deadly.
Alcohol related deaths have more than doubled from 4,144 in 1991 to 8,758 in 2006. See chart:-
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1091
Please have a read of this article:-
http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/publications/alcoholalert/alert200103/al200103_p6.html
There are some worrying stats in there.
You talk about getting things into proportion but I don't think you have a clue about the scale of the problem. At the time the article was written, an estimated 920,000 children lived in a home where one or both parents misuse alcohol. Is that an acceptable, tiny proportion?
"Total annual Government tax revenue from alcohol sales in 1999 was £11.5 BILLION
This contrasts with just over £1 MILLION spent on alcohol prevention and treatment – compared to £91.45 million on drugs and £33.75 million on tobacco."
That is a damning stat which proves that the government make too much money from alcohol to do much about reducing consumption.
"Alcohol Concern calculated that alcohol misuse costs England £10.8 billion per year."
Do you think the government are using the tax revenue from alcohol to fund that bill? Or is it more likely we are ALL paying for it through taxes?
Please have a read of the article and look at the bigger picture. You seem to be kidding yourself about the extent of the problem.
Highland Laddie
24-Feb-08, 17:54
Alcohol related deaths have more than doubled from 4,144 in 1991 to 8,758 in 2006. See chart:-
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1091 (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1091)
Please have a read of this article:-
http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/publications/alcoholalert/alert200103/al200103_p6.html (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/publications/alcoholalert/alert200103/al200103_p6.html)
There are some worrying stats in there.
You talk about getting things into proportion but I don't think you have a clue about the scale of the problem. At the time the article was written, an estimated 920,000 children lived in a home where one or both parents misuse alcohol. Is that an acceptable, tiny proportion?
"Total annual Government tax revenue from alcohol sales in 1999 was £11.5 BILLION
This contrasts with just over £1 MILLION spent on alcohol prevention and treatment – compared to £91.45 million on drugs and £33.75 million on tobacco."
That is a damning stat which proves that the government make too much money from alcohol to do much about reducing consumption.
"Alcohol Concern calculated that alcohol misuse costs England £10.8 billion per year."
Do you think the government are using the tax revenue from alcohol to fund that bill? Or is it more likely we are ALL paying for it through taxes?
Please have a read of the article and look at the bigger picture. You seem to be kidding yourself about the extent of the problem.
I am by no means kidding myself about the problem, from the very start, all i have said is it is a personal choice, and until as most people seem to want the government change the rules, that's the way it should stay.
Sapphire2803
24-Feb-08, 17:59
Alcohol misuse.... that's a very broad term don't you think?
I should imagine that it covers everything from 1 too many units a week, or drinking all you units in one session to being completely buckled every day by 9.30am.
I'm not a great fan of statistics, they can be moulded to fit, according to who paid for them [disgust]
I am by no means kidding myself about the problem, from the very start, all i have said is it is a personal choice, and until as most people seem to want the government change the rules, that's the way it should stay.
Did you read the article? I find it hard to believe that you could have done and not admit to the problem being bigger than you have opined thus far on this forum.
I can see that you are not open to any deeper analysis of the bigger picture.
Personal choice, freedom. Noble concepts indeed. As you said earlier, people fought in world wars for them. The trouble is though, personal choice is abused, freedom is abused. They are used utterly selfishly. Are you more proud of our society today, with it's personal choice and freedom, than you are of the people who made the sacrifices that you value so highly?
Alcohol misuse.... that's a very broad term don't you think?
I should imagine that it covers everything from 1 too many units a week, or drinking all you units in one session to being completely buckled every day by 9.30am.
I'm not a great fan of statistics, they can be moulded to fit, according to who paid for them [disgust]
OK is this a better definition:-
"The Office for National Statistics (ONS) definition of ‘heavy’ drinking is eight or more units for men and six or more units for women on at least one day in the week. This has been used as a proxy for binge drinking in lieu of more nuanced data and the BMA usually follows this definition on its website because it is so widely used for national statistical purposes."
So, if you think that the statistics are being moulded to fit, do you think that they have made up the number of deaths due to alcohol? Do you believe that all the numbers have been invented and, in fact, there is no problem with alcohol in the UK? (Insert emoticon for VERY DISGUSTED here) ;)
Sapphire2803
24-Feb-08, 21:30
I believe that there is a problem, although I don't necessarily believe that it's any worse than it was 40 years ago.
Deaths due to drinking.... yep, that'll be on record. I'll accept that one.
My point was that misuse is a term that could be interpreted very differently from one person to the next.
When people read that figure, they picture that many people with a major drink problem, when in fact it probably just covers most social drinkers.
People's own personal experiences are leading to distinct and heated defence of a particular stance regarding alcohol...Let's heed that and understand that we are all entitled to our own views and that your experience is almost certainly not mine..or hers..or his etc.:(
We are here to share experiences and discuss things..not lambast anyone who disagrees with us and carry smugly on in our own wee belief system.
People's own personal experiences are leading to distinct and heated defence of a particular stance regarding alcohol...Let's heed that and understand that we are all entitled to our own views and that your experience is almost certainly not mine..or hers..or his etc.:(
We are here to share experiences and discuss things..not lambast anyone who disagrees with us and carry smugly on in our own wee belief system.Or my beeg belief system.;)
Or my beeg belief system.
There's always one wi a beeger belief system than everyone else..or so they claim!:roll:
I blame private education.:lol:
There's always one wi a beeger belief system than everyone else..or so they claim!:roll:
I blame private education.I went to the University of life Karia, does that count?;)
I went to the University of life Karia, does that count?;)
I always wonder where that would have its campus and how those taking only evening classes would cope during the day.:confused
Sapphire2803
24-Feb-08, 22:08
My belief system is kinda medium sized and it tapers off at the end... Should I consult a professional?
Btw... Lambast!!! That is a fantastic word, which is just not used often enough.
My belief system is kinda medium sized and it tapers off at the end... Should I consult a professional?
No..but if you experience pain or unexplained bleeding then hesitate not!;)
There's always one wi a beeger belief system than everyone else..or so they claim!:roll:
I blame private education.:lol:
Does that mean i am to blame.I had private education.....but that got me nowhere except to the bottom of a bottle......of which i am now free.......
Highland Laddie
24-Feb-08, 22:20
Does that mean i am to blame.I had private education.....but that got me nowhere except to the bottom of a bottle......of which i am now free.......
I don't think i could ever say i was free.
Does that mean i am to blame.I had private education.....but that got me nowhere except to the bottom of a bottle......of which i am now free.......So now you are on a mission?
So now you are on a mission?
No just pointing out my opinion....Is that a problem
There's always one wi a beeger belief system than everyone else..or so they claim!:roll:
I blame private education.:lol:
what has all this got to do with private education,after all if remember rightly this thread was about supermarket chains touting cheap booze and then wanting to meet with government with regards to the drink aware campaign....talk about a thread drift.....or is it just have go at someone again.....am not a religious person but GOD you all want to get a grip and have a serious discussion.....................or is that beyond your belief mechanism...
Sapphire2803
24-Feb-08, 23:19
what has all this got to do with private education,after all if remember rightly this thread was about supermarket chains touting cheap booze and then wanting to meet with government with regards to the drink aware campaign....talk about a thread drift.....or is it just have go at someone again.....am not a religious person but GOD you all want to get a grip and have a serious discussion.....................or is that beyond your belief mechanism...
The post you quoted, was a humorous one, designed to defuse what was fast becoming an explosive thread.
Now say haha, then smile.... That's it... Now you're getting the idea ;)
but that got me nowhere except to the bottom of a bottle......of which i am now free.......That has nothing to do with with Supermarkets selling cheap booze otherwise we would not have the problem here and the whole of southern Europe would be awash with people with Chronic Alcohol Problems.
The fact that I can go to any European Mediterranean Country and buy a bottle of Scotch far cheaper than I can buy it next door to a distillery here where it is made says it has nothing to do with price.
Blaming the price that Supermarkets sell alcohol at for creating the problem of teenage, for that is what it is about, alcohol abuse and violent behaviour is simply to create a distraction.
The problem is that for many years we have slowly but increasingly been teaching youngsters that there are few restrictions which will be placed on bad behaviour.
Having done that it should come as no surprise that some, but by no means all, of them will take note of that and then take full advantage of it in their behaviour.
Add to that the constant glorification of that behaviour in the media in reporting how pop stars, sports people, TV personalities etc glorify in getting falling down drunk (the behaviour at the recent Pop Awards exemplifies that) then what is to be expected?
Remember a few years ago, possibly more than a few, the glorification of the "Ladettes"? Well known girls from TV etc who were glorified in the press as being able to out drink their male counterparts. Shortly after there was "shock, horror" that young girls were suddenly drinking as much as male yobs.
Is it really any surprise that youngsters fall into the trap of "if they can do it, so can I"?
It's not the Supermarkets who are being hypocritical it is society which, rather than accepting it is itself at fault, is frantically searching for a scapegoat to avoid facing up to it's responsibility for the situation.
No just pointing out my opinion....Is that a problemNo problem whatsoever, Just an observation that there is nothing worse than reformed alcoholics, they have all the answers.:roll:
what has all this got to do with private education,after all if remember rightly this thread was about supermarket chains touting cheap booze and then wanting to meet with government with regards to the drink aware campaign....talk about a thread drift.....or is it just have go at someone again.....am not a religious person but GOD you all want to get a grip and have a serious discussion.....................or is that beyond your belief mechanism...Do keep up.
No problem whatsoever, Just an observation that there is nothing worse than reformed alcoholics, they have all the answers.:roll:
But that is it.I aint a reformed alcaholic just someone who saw sense..I could not give 2 hoots if people want to drink but i dont..Have not touched a drop and i am happy with that..My point of this was stated by router...This is about a supermarket that has stated they wan to help with alcahol aware, but then do they say, Now we have finished our chat, go inside and you can get 3 crates for the price of 2.........I have a problem with people who drink if it envolves me or my family...thats it.............If they are throwing them selves at someone else, thats nowt to do with me....................IMO>>>>
please read and now maybe you can get why i started this thread..There are quotes in it from tescos......................WHAT MORE NEEDS TO BE SAID..[lol]
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30400-1306252,00.html
I believe that there is a problem, although I don't necessarily believe that it's any worse than it was 40 years ago.
Deaths due to drinking.... yep, that'll be on record. I'll accept that one.
My point was that misuse is a term that could be interpreted very differently from one person to the next.
When people read that figure, they picture that many people with a major drink problem, when in fact it probably just covers most social drinkers.
I tried replying to this last night, only to find the thread was closed. I'll try to squeeze in quick in case it closes again.
"Misuse" is obviously a term that is impossible to quantify accurately but with 90% of adults in the UK consuming alcohol to some extent, it is pretty obvious that there will be a large number who have problems with controlling their level of consumption. If you take the adult population of the UK and apply the 90% figure, you will realise that there is no way on this earth that the figure of 920,000 children that I quoted is anywhere near high enough to represent the children of the social drinkers in the UK. In fact, to prove the point, I did a few calculations.
In 2006 there were some 17.1 million families in the UK, the average number of children was 1.8 per family. That makes 30.78 million children. The number of children estimated to be in families where one or both parents was misusing alcohol was, as I said earlier, 920,000. If we calculate that as a percentage of the children in the UK it is, almost exactly, 3%
Are we then going to say that 3% of all children represent the children who belong to the social drinkers of the UK? Or, is it more likely that this 3% represents the children of problem drinkers?
I am not sure what you are basing your belief that the problem is not any worse than it was 40 years ago on. The chart I posted a link to earlier showed that deaths due to alcohol had doubled over a 15 year period (1991-2006) I did some research and found that the consumption of alcohol in the UK in 2002 was DOUBLE the consumption in the UK in 1960, with Scotland in particular now being one of the highest in Europe.
That has nothing to do with with Supermarkets selling cheap booze otherwise we would not have the problem here and the whole of southern Europe would be awash with people with Chronic Alcohol Problems.
The fact that I can go to any European Mediterranean Country and buy a bottle of Scotch far cheaper than I can buy it next door to a distillery here where it is made says it has nothing to do with price.
Blaming the price that Supermarkets sell alcohol at for creating the problem of teenage, for that is what it is about, alcohol abuse and violent behaviour is simply to create a distraction.
The problem is that for many years we have slowly but increasingly been teaching youngsters that there are few restrictions which will be placed on bad behaviour.
Having done that it should come as no surprise that some, but by no means all, of them will take note of that and then take full advantage of it in their behaviour.
Add to that the constant glorification of that behaviour in the media in reporting how pop stars, sports people, TV personalities etc glorify in getting falling down drunk (the behaviour at the recent Pop Awards exemplifies that) then what is to be expected?
Remember a few years ago, possibly more than a few, the glorification of the "Ladettes"? Well known girls from TV etc who were glorified in the press as being able to out drink their male counterparts. Shortly after there was "shock, horror" that young girls were suddenly drinking as much as male yobs.
Is it really any surprise that youngsters fall into the trap of "if they can do it, so can I"?
It's not the Supermarkets who are being hypocritical it is society which, rather than accepting it is itself at fault, is frantically searching for a scapegoat to avoid facing up to it's responsibility for the situation.
I understand where you are coming from Jaws but I think we should also look at it from the culture of the country first. If a country has a sensible attitude to alcohol consumption, then it won't matter if the booze is cheap or not. People will drink sensibly and the culture will continue to dictate consumption.
However, if we look at the UK, where a different culture is in place and getting "hammered" is, as you said, glorified then I think we really need to ask whether cheaper drink leads to greater consumption. When I was drinking in the 1980's, Happy Hours were manna to the punters and greed consumption was very much in evidence. The last five minutes of the magic hour would see two dozen pints ordered for a table of six punters. This carry on still goes on in nightclubs now, where punters pay an entry fee and then get drams at a £1 a pop. I speak to young folks who tell me that they get fired up in the house these days before heading off down the town for the last few hours. With drams at £2 odd in pubs, and tins of beer and hooch at 50p a pop or less in Supermarkets, who can blame them?
I also think price is a major factor in underage drinking. Pocket money has gone way up over the past 20 odd years, the price of drink has not gone up apace with that. I would have been lucky to get a tin of stout with my pocket money, kids today could probably get a bottle of scotch with theirs.
Boozeburglar
25-Feb-08, 13:25
That makes 30.78 million children.
Ahem...
Something nearer 11 or 12 million methinks, if we are talking in terms of child in the eyes of society in general, i.e. under 16.
My take on this is that the price of alcohol is pretty irrelevant, it is the control of distribution that is key. The kids will take something else if they cannot access alcohol due to cost, whether that something is aerosols, pills or whatever.
:)
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21 February 2008
http://adamboulton.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/02/21/tescowine_2.jpgThe man, that is, who engineered Tesco's "ban the cheap booze" (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1306252,00.html) stunt.
Wary of the "broken Britain" hysteria currently gripping the popular press, the supermarket chain says it would support an industry wide end to cut-price alcohol but that anti-competition laws forbid such a move.
It's very clever. Tesco avoids being cast as the villain of the piece while kicking the issue into the long grass by insisting that the Government must legislate (something it is quite rightly loathe to do) before anything can be done.
It's also complete cant. How can one of the world's most profitable companies argue that it would be 'commercial suicide' for it to act alone in not selling lager at 22p a can?
Written by Jonathan Levy, 21 February 2008
Boozeburglar
25-Feb-08, 13:48
It's also complete cant. How can one of the world's most profitable companies argue that it would be 'commercial suicide' for it to act alone in not selling lager at 22p a can?
Totally agree.
As far as I was aware, they price their alcohol as a loss leader!
Highland Laddie
25-Feb-08, 13:50
And would pushing the price of alcohol up, not also have a knock on effect on burglaries, muggings and general robbery to pay for the now expensive alcohol.
It is a vicious circle.
Ahem...
Something nearer 11 or 12 million methinks, if we are talking in terms of child in the eyes of society in general, i.e. under 16.
My take on this is that the price of alcohol is pretty irrelevant, it is the control of distribution that is key. The kids will take something else if they cannot access alcohol due to cost, whether that something is aerosols, pills or whatever.
:)
Point accepted. My error. There must still be many more social drinkers than the figure of 920000 children would represent though.
I don't think that all children who would try a dram would resort to sniffing cans, or popping pills if alcohol were more expensive though. They may see their mum and dad taking a drink and think, why not me? but I don't see them all then turning to more dangerous and less socially acceptable alternatives. You also have to consider the price effect on borderline social/problem drinkers. Jimmy has a tenner to spend before going home to face the wife. Does that tenner buy him 5 nips down the pub or does he get 24 cans at the supermarket?
Point accepted. My error. There must still be many more social drinkers than the figure of 920000 children would represent though.
I don't think that all children who would try a dram would resort to sniffing cans, or popping pills if alcohol were more expensive though. They may see their mum and dad taking a drink and think, why not me? but I don't see them all then turning to more dangerous and less socially acceptable alternatives. You also have to consider the price effect on borderline social/problem drinkers. Jimmy has a tenner to spend before going home to face the wife. Does that tenner buy him 5 nips down the pub or does he get 24 cans at the supermarket?
Am with you on that..I dont drink at all but my hubby does like a glass every so many months.our chuildren dont see it so they are not interested in it..I am not saying that the oldest has not had a try but she does say its not worth it. So i am hoping that all my kids will follow suit...
How many people spend their last on booze when someone is sitting at home waiting for something to eat....But i have to say that tescos is still hypocritical and i will never change my mind on this.........
Highland Laddie
25-Feb-08, 14:02
22/02/2008
http://news.scotsman.com/health?articleid=3805143
22/02/2008
http://news.scotsman.com/health?articleid=3805143
I read this article and its a good pointer..I have to say that i liked what the judge had to say about the man that he had just sentenced to 5 years in prison for murdering his friend after getting drunk and having a squabble over football.....
QUOTE...
I am suprised that a more mature person did this i would have expected more.........so it just proves that the drink is not just asomething that makes the wee ones go daft.....Good mates killing eachother is madness....He also mentions Scotlands Binge drinking problem....so what do we do about it....:~(
And would pushing the price of alcohol up, not also have a knock on effect on burglaries, muggings and general robbery to pay for the now expensive alcohol.
It is a vicious circle.
Unfortunately with the society today raising the price of drink wont make them more determined to mug for money, they just have to beg harder.....People are mugged for less than a pint of beer these days and thats not a statistic, its relaity.....A pensioner beaten for £1.83, not the price of a pint....
Boozeburglar
25-Feb-08, 20:20
Jimmy has a tenner to spend before going home to face the wife. Does that tenner buy him 5 nips down the pub or does he get 24 cans at the supermarket?
Jimmy, it is a trick question, get the cans!
;)
Sapphire2803
25-Feb-08, 21:08
I tried replying to this last night, only to find the thread was closed. I'll try to squeeze in quick in case it closes again.
"Misuse" is obviously a term that is impossible to quantify accurately but with 90% of adults in the UK consuming alcohol to some extent, it is pretty obvious that there will be a large number who have problems with controlling their level of consumption. If you take the adult population of the UK and apply the 90% figure, you will realise that there is no way on this earth that the figure of 920,000 children that I quoted is anywhere near high enough to represent the children of the social drinkers in the UK. In fact, to prove the point, I did a few calculations.
In 2006 there were some 17.1 million families in the UK, the average number of children was 1.8 per family. That makes 30.78 million children. The number of children estimated to be in families where one or both parents was misusing alcohol was, as I said earlier, 920,000. If we calculate that as a percentage of the children in the UK it is, almost exactly, 3%
Are we then going to say that 3% of all children represent the children who belong to the social drinkers of the UK? Or, is it more likely that this 3% represents the children of problem drinkers?
I am not sure what you are basing your belief that the problem is not any worse than it was 40 years ago on. The chart I posted a link to earlier showed that deaths due to alcohol had doubled over a 15 year period (1991-2006) I did some research and found that the consumption of alcohol in the UK in 2002 was DOUBLE the consumption in the UK in 1960, with Scotland in particular now being one of the highest in Europe.
I stand corrected. I thank you :)
M.Funkenstein
25-Feb-08, 21:12
It's people's OWN choice if they decide to drink. Tesco wanting to make some money isn't going to turn down the opportunity, they are in no way FORCING people to buy the stuff.
and besides, they start selling it a 12 noon and stop at 9:55.
even on new years eve.
Jimmy has a tenner to spend before going home to face the wife. Does that tenner buy him 5 nips down the pub or does he get 24 cans at the supermarket?
I think jimmy should buy the nips in the pub and take his time or he'll have to sit in with his wife drinking cans.
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