BUDGE and CORMACK in KEISS, WICK

[Tricia]

I am posting this thread here under new heading:


Hi Don
I have this Cormack/Budge family linking into my research

Here is MI
Wick Old Cemetery 492.
(very worn) Alex Cormack fr Keiss 10.1801 80, w Janet Budge 8.1798 69, ed s John tacksman Aucorn feuar Keiss; replaced Wm Cormack, Keiss imo fa John, Keiss 4.1847 94, mo Helen Reid 4.1848 89.

I have followed descendants of 2 of their children John m Helen Reid and Christina m Donald Budge. Where do you fit in.

Tricia

[garrybudge]

Hi tricia
I have Alex Cormack & Jane Budge linked in my family tree they are my 7 times grandparents. I have Alex Born 16 march 1718 died 1801 and Janet born 6 Feb 1730 died august 1798. I have follwed down through william isabella then Annal arriving back at Budge

[Tricia]

Hi Gary
Janet Budge is m gx4 great Aunt.
I am sure Alex Cormack's ancestors will also link to my earlier Cormacks.
I show in my tree 3c2R Helen & Mary Annal daughters of John A & Isabella C -
Is this your line. I don't have any further on that twig
Happy to exchange compare etc.

Tricia

[Tricia]

Gary
Is this your line
Helen Annal m 11 NOV 1887 to Donald Budge
???Donald b 1855 - Parents ??? William/Jane


in 1901 census
Name: Donald Budge
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Wick, Caithnessshire
Registration Number: 37B
Registration district: Keiss
Civil Parish: Wick
County: Caithness
Address: Keiss Village
Occupation: Boat Carpenter
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 172
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1901_9
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Budge 3
Donald Budge 44
Donald Budge 5
Ellen Budge 34
Henry Budge 1
Isabella Budge 7
John Budge 10
William Budge 12

[caroline]

Hi Gary
Janet Budge is m gx4 great Aunt.
I am sure Alex Cormack's ancestors will also link to my earlier Cormacks.
I show in my tree 3c2R Helen & Mary Annal daughters of John A & Isabella C -
Is this your line. I don't have any further on that twig
Happy to exchange compare etc.

Tricia

Hi Tricia

Mary Annal daughter of John Annal & Isabella Cormack marries into my Leith's. Mary marries Donald Leith 27 Jan 1893 Free Church of Scotland Keiss. Know of three children William Leith b. 1894, Isabella Cormack Leith 1897-1898, John Annal Leith b. 1897-1897.
Mary Annal dies 10 Apr 1939 Keiss Donald Leith son of William Leith & Isabella Rugg dies 12 Mar 1948 46 West Banks Terr Wick Caithness. Not completed this family to date sure I have more info let me know if you wish more and will see if I ca help further

Caroline

[Tricia]

Hi Caroline
Thanks for that marriage of Mary Annal my3c2r to Donald Leith. I had your Leith keyed in my tree but not tied this pair up.
We still don't relate :( although I am sure one of the twigs one day will connect.

Tricia

[Tricia]

Hi tricia
I have Alex Cormack & Jane Budge linked in my family tree they are my 7 times grandparents. I have Alex Born 16 march 1718 died 1801 and Janet born 6 Feb 1730 died august 1798. I have follwed down through william isabella then Annal arriving back at Budge


Garry
I tried emailing you but email did not work. I have sent a message to your Private Message Box with my email.

Tricia

[garrybudge]

Yes tric I have Donald Budge and Ellan Annal Donald’s parents were William budge 1829 to 1886 and a Jane Budge Maiden name budge 1835 to 1912
Williams’s parents were Donald born circa 1788 died 15th march 1847 wife Elizabeth barnie 1793 to 1869
Jane Budge parents were Henry Budge 1789 and helan Bruce 1802
Ellan Annal parents
John Annal and Isabella Cormack
Johns Parents were Samuel Annal and Mary Matherson 1806 to 1885
Isabella’s parents William Cormack1793 to 1873 and Helen Budge 1798
I think the E mail address you may have is an old one
garry@budge.wanadoo.co.uk
Above is my new one I also have a site at My heratigefamily site called the caithness Budge you can look all I have up on that.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you this is something I do on dark nights
Garry

[Tricia]

Hi Garry
Found your site on myfamilyheritage
I am away to explore it now.
Tricia

[w.j.milne]

Tricia,Having read your threads with Gary I am interested if you have the following in your research.
Donald Budge Md. Margaret Manson, 11/12/1715,Canisbay
Daughter Margaret Budge, born abt.1725 Wick Md. Robert Bain of Myreland 30/11/1749.
Son Donald Bain,born 1752,Myreland Md.Jannet Sutherland1725 Wick

[Tricia]

Tricia,Having read your threads with Gary I am interested if you have the following in your research.
Donald Budge Md. Margaret Manson, 11/12/1715,Canisbay
Daughter Margaret Budge, born abt.1725 Wick Md. Robert Bain of Myreland 30/11/1749.
Son Donald Bain,born 1752,Myreland Md.Jannet Sutherland1725 Wick

Hi
Not part of my Budge line so far. I did note though that a couple of folks on rootsweb have followed Isabell Bain daug of Robert & Margaret.
There is also a tree on rootsweb showing Margaret Budge 1825 to be daughter of Donald Budge and Marjory Baine ???-
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=mteacher&id=I12959
You show Donald B & Margaret Manson.
From my records : I show Caithness Marriages: Donald m Margaret Manson 1716 in Canisbay and Donald m Marjery Baine 1721 in Wick.
I can only find two Margaret Budge births c 1720s to a Donald
MARGARET OC 22 OCT 1721 Wick Caithness DONALD BUDGE/Mother not given
MARGARET OC 1 AUG 1725 Wick Caithness DONALD BUDGE/mother not given


In fact here are all christenings around that time in WICK to a Donald father. - No Mother
It copuld all be one family and perhaps 1st margaret died ! Then again Thomas was 1717
CHRISTIAN OC 20 OCT 1727 Wick Caithness DONALD BUDGE/
ELIZABETH OC 26 MAR 1732 Wick Caithness DONALD BUDGE/
HELEN OC 25 JAN 1730 Wick Caithness DONALD BUDGE/
ISABELL OC 25 APR 1731 Wick Caithness DONALD BUDGE/
JOHN OC 11 APR 1723 Wick Caithness DONALD BUDGE/
MARGARET OC 22 OCT 1721 Wick Caithness DONALD BUDGE/
MARGARET OC 1 AUG 1725 Wick Caithness DONALD BUDGE/
THOMAS OC 31 MAR 1717 Wick Caithness DONALD BUDGE/

What do you think
Tricia

[w.j.milne]

Tricia, Thank you for your reply.Here is what I have & how I see the records fit.
Donald Budge is shown as marrying Margaret Manson on two dates in Cannisbay. 11th Dec.1715 & 17th Jan 1716. Perhaps the 1st was date of bans.
What you show me is all members of the family recorded on IGI to Donald & Margaret Manson.Of which Helen, b1730 married Alexander Nicolson.
I assume the first Margaret b.1721, died & the 2nd margaret b.1725 replaced her. There was no birth in between.
I could find no family records for a Donald Budge & Marjory Bain who married 1721.
Happy days,Bill

[Tricia]

Tricia, Thank you for your reply.Here is what I have & how I see the records fit.
Donald Budge is shown as marrying Margaret Manson on two dates in Cannisbay. 11th Dec.1715 & 17th Jan 1716. Perhaps the 1st was date of bans.
What you show me is all members of the family recorded on IGI to Donald & Margaret Manson.Of which Helen, b1730 married Alexander Nicolson.
I assume the first Margaret b.1721, died & the 2nd margaret b.1725 replaced her. There was no birth in between.
I could find no family records for a Donald Budge & Marjory Bain who married 1721.
Happy days,Bill

Hi Bill
2 Donalds. One marries in Canisbay 1816 other in Keiss Wick 1821

WICK Parish:043 0010 031 Marriage "1st NOv 1721 Donald Budge in Keiss and Marjory Baine in Bowar gave up their names for marriage Surety George Budge for the man and Alex Baine for his daughter. "
So yes they would perhaps have had some children after 1721 !!!!
Keiss in Wick Parish. Canisbay is not.
What do you think
Tricia

[w.j.milne]

Tricia.My problem is lack of returns from the SP site.
What I think can be confirmed is that Alexander Nicolson,b.1725/30 Bower married Helen Budge, b.25/1/1730,Keiss (not Bower)(this birth is an SP site return)This Nicolson line continues all the way through to my Grandmother Helen Nicolson Manson whose father died at Myreland 1929.Quite a large family gravestone in Keiss cemetery but I have no records from it.
I have Margaret Budge b.1725,Keiss (sister of Helen) marrying Robert Bain of Myreland 1729.
ALL the family of Donald Budge & Margaret Manson are recorded at Wick.No doubt if I did a SP search on them all I would get Keiss.
I can find no trace on LDS site of family for the marriage in 1721 Wick,of a Donald Budge & Marjory Baine.So I have nothing to compare.
The first child of the Budge & Manson marriage in 1716,Canisbay is that of son Thomas in 1717 Wick with the 8th & last 1732,Wick.
To conclude I can only see the Budge & Manson marriage giving me Helen Budge marrying Alexander Nicolson. BUT, I never close the door to other opinions.
Look forward to your opinion nown.Bill

[Tricia]

Hi Bill
There definitely was a marriage of Marjory Baine to Donald Budge in 1721
WICK Parish:043 0010 031 Marriage "1st NOv 1721 Donald Budge in Keiss and Marjory Baine in Bowar gave up their names for marriage Surety George Budge for the man and Alex Baine for his daughter. "
Marjory Bain Christening: 09 JAN 1706 Wick, Caithness, Scotland Father Alexander Bain.
***********

:YOUR QUOTE:SNIP< The first child of the Budge & Manson marriage in 1716,Canisbay is that of son Thomas in 1717 Wick with the 8th & last 1732,Wick.">SNIP
I note IGI Batch Batch Number: 7420330 Has Budge/ Manson parents for the 8 children.

**************
1730 BUDGE, HELEN (O.P.R. Births 043/ 0010 0120 Wick) KEISS.
I link indirectly to the Helen Budge Alex Nicolson line. Can we prove it was this Helen who married Alex.


Have you found any data on William Budge m Charlotte Bain in your searches in Keiss
My gx4 grandparents Charlotte Bain b 1736 Keiss to a DONALD Bain & Jean Manson
Charlotte m William Budge b 1735 ??? parents John & Janet????perhaps


Tricia

[w.j.milne]

Tricia. there is no dispute there was a marriage of Donald Budge & a Marjory Bain. The problem is there is no trace of family to cross check on.

Regarding PROOF of this Helen Budge to Alexander Nicolson marriage. All I have is the LDS return.There is no trace on SP site .The LDS is a Submission with a specific date 17/5/1764.Now I know that you should not accept these Submission records without other confirmation BUT if SP have not got it nor LDS except for this record , I tend to accept it has come from family records because nobody researching will pick a date out of the air.
NOW the first child of Alexander Nicolson & Helen Budge, LDS return, is David Nicolson 25.2.1766,Bower, two years after the date of marriage. He ALSO has a Death date of 31/12/1847, Stroubster. NONE of those are recorded on the SP site.Which to me means they could only have come from family records.
The answer or perhaps Proof lies on obtaining the Monument Inscription's of the Manson family in Keiss Cemetery which I know is there ,as I have a family photograph of the site from outside the cemetery wall, but no details & I have nobody up there to get them for me.As far as I know there is more than one site.
Now, you asked about William Budge & Charlotte Bain.These have not featured in my research but I searched & found them on LDS , Submission,with a family of eight dated members, married 1759,Wick.Again there is no record on SP site. BUT :-
There 1st child John is recorded on SP site, b.Keiss 27/7/1760.

Over to you again .I need a dram.

[w.j.milne]

Tricia. I ommitted the detail that Charlotte Bain was found on LDS site, a Submission, b.7/11/1736, Keiss,Wick. BUT no trace SP site.

[w.j.milne]

Tricia. Returning to the beginning of your Thread.

Cormack connection.These details of Cormack family were cousins somehow in my Grandmothers background.I did make contact some time ago but they were not forthcomming with interest . I will go back from the latest date.

Pater Nicolson Cormack,b.abt 1915,Wick. Died 26/7/1992,Broadhaven Farm,Wick.
Parents:- Robert Ross Cormack,b.31/8/1882,swiney,Caithness

Married :-Margaret Henderson,b.5/2/1883,Latheron on 29/3/1912,Latheron

Parents of R.R.Cormack :- Alexander Cormack,b.19/12/1843,Latheron ,Fisherman & Helen Ross,b.Abt 1856,Latheron & married 25/7/1879,Latheron.

Parents of A.Cormack :- Peter Cormack & Margaret young, married 24/2/1843,Latheron.
Parents of Helen Ross :- Robert Ross & Margaret Young.

There is more on the Margaret Henderson side but that will have to wait as i am off to watch Spooks.

[Fly]

Tricia. there is no dispute there was a marriage of Donald Budge & a Marjory Bain. The problem is there is no trace of family to cross check on.

Regarding PROOF of this Helen Budge to Alexander Nicolson marriage. All I have is the LDS return.There is no trace on SP site .The LDS is a Submission with a specific date 17/5/1764.Now I know that you should not accept these Submission records without other confirmation BUT if SP have not got it nor LDS except for this record , I tend to accept it has come from family records because nobody researching will pick a date out of the air.
NOW the first child of Alexander Nicolson & Helen Budge, LDS return, is David Nicolson 25.2.1766,Bower, two years after the date of marriage. He ALSO has a Death date of 31/12/1847, Stroubster. NONE of those are recorded on the SP site.Which to me means they could only have come from family records.
The answer or perhaps Proof lies on obtaining the Monument Inscription's of the Manson family in Keiss Cemetery which I know is there ,as I have a family photograph of the site from outside the cemetery wall, but no details & I have nobody up there to get them for me.As far as I know there is more than one site.
Now, you asked about William Budge & Charlotte Bain.These have not featured in my research but I searched & found them on LDS , Submission,with a family of eight dated members, married 1759,Wick.Again there is no record on SP site. BUT :-
There 1st child John is recorded on SP site, b.Keiss 27/7/1760.

Over to you again .I need a dram.

There a few Mansons in Keiss cemetery. Can you give me any more names and I can probably find out what you want.

[w.j.milne]

Tricia. My second attempt at sending my server went down.

The known burial plot in Keiss Cemetery is that Alexander Manson, died 20/3/1929, Myreland.all family should be there.Monument is adjacent to an outer wall and railings with a large angel topped stone nearby .There should be other members somewhere.

Is the other details of interest?

[Tricia]

Over to you again .I need a dram.

Hi Bill.
I have just logged in and as per your quote above: I think I need a dram to digest all this.
You have been busy.
Will look further tomorrow and I believe we may be able to accept some data as proven by evidence.
Tricia.