View Full Version : Gary Newlove's widow calls for the death penalty
Views on this?
Personally, good on you love........agree 100%!!
Interview was shown on the 10 o'clock news, during which, she commented that, as far as she was concerned, people who commit this type of crime, should forfiet their 'human rights'. Agree 100%
They also interviewed a lassie that had been in court for assault, for the 8th time,
When asked if she was scared, she actually smiled as she said something along the lines of 'no, the first time you get into trouble is scary, after that, you know what's coming' ( i was waiting for the "am i bovered")
Where's the deterrent??? Answer..............there ain't one!
Just wondering then, whats your view on this? or is it just me that thinks this country is far too soft?
j4bberw0ck
13-Feb-08, 10:02
This would waken a few gormless, know-it-all little gits out of their "am-i-bovvered" mentality. (http://forum.caithness.org/go.php?url=http://forum.caithness.org/showpost.php?p=338565&postcount=16)
This country is far too soft on offenders. The offender it would appear has more rights than the victims.
I would fully support the return of the death penalty, though it would need to be used only where there is no doubt about guilt.
I am not sure about the death penalty. I would like them to rot in jail, probably in solitary confinement with only the bare minimum. Public flogging with the birch, the imbarasment factor may help along with the pain. Oh and the sentance they are given is the one they must serve, not given less time for behaving in prison. They should be given more time if they misbehave in prison.
brokencross
13-Feb-08, 11:04
I'm not so sure about bringing back the death penalty for all murders.
I agree with the death penalty per se, but with certain caveates; for murder that has been proved beyond any doubt i.e. multiple witnesses and undisputable forensic evidence. The jail sentences for murder, manslaughter and violent conduct should be longer and conditions in jail should be spartan at least.
As regards "human rights" I agree that anyone who is found guilty of a crime where physical or mental harm is caused against another human being, the offender should forfeit a certain amount of their "human rights" whilst in custody. The violation of the innocent victim's own human rights that allow them to go about their business without fear of attack are so easily forgotten by the liberal do-gooders.
. Public flogging with the birch, the imbarasment factor may help along with the pain.
Totally agree, we could have them outside Weatherspoons on a Saturday afternoon, that would draw a crowd and help with regenerating the town centre;)
This country is far too soft on offenders. The offender it would appear has more rights than the victims.
I would fully support the return of the death penalty, though it would need to be used only where there is no doubt about guilt.I am in complete agreement with you jm.mack. Also i agree with a few others who advocate bringing the birch to this country. I remember well, years and years ago, a youngster from Britain went to the Isle of Man on holiday, where he proceedeed to break the law and his punishment was the birch. Months later, he was interviewed on television and he said, never again would he get birched as it was the most excruciating pain he had ever suffered in his life and he most certainly would'nt want to repeat it. Perhaps that's the answer for us then, eh!;)
This country is far too soft on offenders. The offender it would appear has more rights than the victims.
I would fully support the return of the death penalty, though it would need to be used only where there is no doubt about guilt.
i agree that this country is far too soft. I would worry about the death penalty tho - could we ever be 100% sure of guilt given the degree of corruption we know goes on?
If we could then yes, I support it. but lets look at the root causes of this upsurge of youth crime.
Firstly I think if I had the power, I would bring back conscription for all those youngsters not in gainful employment, and I would not pay them for doing nothing, there is so much in the community they could be put to. this would solve the excuse of 'we're bored,' Then I would bring in a curfew for kids under a certain age, I would give teachers and police back the power they once had, and get bobbies back on the beat - And I would strip offenders of their human rights. Okay I'm getting off the subject here, but the government has to do something soon!
I'm not for the death penalty at all, although I do agree that people's time should adequately match their time. There are consequences for what we do.
I feel genuine sympathy for Mrs Newlove but I find her calls for capital punishment sad. She is obviously sorely grieving and I can't help but wonder if she will look back on these days with just a little bit of regret.
ciderally
13-Feb-08, 13:19
overcrowding jails...prisoner rights...blah blah blah ... far to soft
get the chain gangs, and some hard labour..youths get them into boot camp
or national service ...but death penatly no
What always amazes me is the Lawyers who defend these people. I can never understand why, apart from the fat pay checks.
Felt really sorry for Mrs Newlove and her girls on GMTV this morning. She was saying how hurtful it was in court when the defense lawyer was insisting they didn't have weapons, only their feet and hands!
What always amazes me is the Lawyers who defend these people. I can never understand why, apart from the fat pay checks.
Well there you go. What other reasons do they need?
j4bberw0ck
13-Feb-08, 13:47
What always amazes me is the Lawyers who defend these people. I can never understand why, apart from the fat pay checks.
Aww c'mon, sweetpea; it's not terribly difficult....... one of the few rights left in this country to protect individuals against the State is the right to have legal representation if accused of a crime. Everyone has that right. Everyone has the right to have their case heard by a jury of their peers. If you remember, people are innocent until proven guilty (except speeding drivers and people who don't appear on a TV Licensing database).
j4bberw0ck
13-Feb-08, 14:25
. Public flogging with the birch, the imbarasment factor may help along with the pain.
That's maybe one of the greatest deterrent characteristics of the birch - helluva difficult to look cool while you're screaming and writhing on the ground, begging for mercy. A far cry from an ASBO or other badge of honour.
i agree with a few others who advocate bringing the birch to this country.
Yep, count me in with that too. One condition: anyone who's birched doesn't get a criminal record. That way there's nothing to get in the way of potential employment.
Firstly I think if I had the power, I would bring back conscription for all those youngsters not in gainful employment
I know where you're coming from, as they say, but perhaps the Armed Forces have enough to cope with with two wars, no equipment, no money, and no political will to support them. The last thing they need to is to be appointed as probation officers and parents of last resort to hundreds of thousands of bolshie morons who got out of school with no qualifications, no ambition, an encyclopaedic knowledge of the benefits system and a criminal record.
On the other hand, if you were advocating compulsory "boot camp" style activities of some description - like extreme litter collection or repairing damage caused by vandals - for some of the little horrors there might be some mileage in that. Or waterboarding :lol::lol: . No, only kidding.
scotsman1
13-Feb-08, 16:02
I completly agree with the death penalty and bring back capital punishment, the birch and any other deterrant we can think off, mabey then this countrys crime rate will fall. If the government can stop all these immigrants coming in to the country then it will be a good place to live for its own people. The saving in tax payers money can then be used to benefit us all instead of the threats of schools having their teaching staff cut etc according to todays courier.
Mrs Newlove seems to bring the justice system in the USA into the equation as if to somehow prove that the death penalty is acting as some sort of deterrent there.
I am just wondering if she, and we, are missing a blatantly obvious point here: the USA has crime figures that would scare you rigid. Not only can you face the death penalty if you are caught and tried, but if a law enforcement officer catches you in the job he can jolly well shoot you and you won't get your trial at all. If America was the epitome of peace and tranquility, then by all means bring it in (that is if you can leave it dubious morality out of the question), but I honestly can't see how this will solve the problem. Is this the kind of justice we want? Really?
The solution to problem youth has to begin somewhere else. It has to start at home, in school and in our communities. Its a long haul solution that's needed, not a quick fix.
j4bberw0ck
13-Feb-08, 16:17
Its a long haul solution that's needed, not a quick fix.
If by "long haul solution" you mean a programme of years of educating people so when they have their children they'll educate them so that in turn, those children won't be unpleasant and dangerous little toerags, I disagree completely.
What it needs is for someone in authority (like the Prime Minister) to get behind a campaign to ditch all the political correctness about "treating children like young adults" and "having dialogues", and concentrating instead on some meaningful punishments (meaningful to the kids, not to the middle aged, middle class politicians) and some cracking together of skulls.
There's time enough for "long haul" and "dialogues" and "respect" when some kids in our society learn the lessons about respect for others and their property.
I think the fact that she sees smirking little rats who will be out causing more hurt in the not too distant future is her driver, no more no less. They need a good dose of rat poison.
If by "long haul solution" you mean a programme of years of educating people so when they have their children they'll educate them so that in turn, those children won't be unpleasant and dangerous little toerags, I disagree completely.
What it needs is for someone in authority (like the Prime Minister) to get behind a campaign to ditch all the political correctness about "treating children like young adults" and "having dialogues", and concentrating instead on some meaningful punishments (meaningful to the kids, not to the middle aged, middle class politicians) and some cracking together of skulls.
There's time enough for "long haul" and "dialogues" and "respect" when some kids in our society learn the lessons about respect for others and their property.
I'm not advocating political correctness or programmes for the sake of programmes. I agree that there should be tough action on young people who cause disruption and upset at every level. My argument is more that we've come to this place because respect has been allowed to disappear from our society.
More than that, my arguement is that killing them won't do any good and will not serve as a very good deterrent.
I don't know if any of you watch the TV Drama Waterloo Road about an English Secondary School. There was an episode a few weeks back where they sent a group of tough lads for a prison visit and a scenario was created where they were given a jolly good scare by a group that was set up by ex-prisoners to ward young people out of trouble.
Now, obviously, the application of that kind of idea long term wouldn't work because they'd catch on, but these are the things we need to be doing. We need a tough approach no doubt and there needs to be something done to bring in the reins, but there still needs to be a long haul approach.
Aww c'mon, sweetpea; it's not terribly difficult....... one of the few rights left in this country to protect individuals against the State is the right to have legal representation if accused of a crime. Everyone has that right. Everyone has the right to have their case heard by a jury of their peers. If you remember, people are innocent until proven guilty (except speeding drivers and people who don't appear on a TV Licensing database).
Yes I know that but I was also under the impression that lawyers must believe their client is innocent before representing them, are you telling me they all do? Don't believe that for a minute. And yes I know plenty of people are innocent and wrongly convicted.
While I agree with Andrew, I'm afraid that doesn't help the present situation. Drink and drugs are behind most of this teenage thuggery and the Chief Constable on the radio this morning was right that something needs to be done about the availability of drink. Underage drinkers frequently get it from their parents and it's all far too cheap. When lager costs less than bottled water someone needs to take action pretty quickly. I'm afraid I agree that in the short term punishment should be more severe
In the long run though we do need to look at parenting and schooling. Far too many kids are running around the streets with their parents not knowing or caring where they are or what they are doing. Following complaints about litter, a headmaster is quoted in the Courier today saying that's what teenagers do. What kind of message does that send? It's high time that being a teenager stopped being used as an excuse for any kind of bad behaviour.
While I agree with Andrew, I'm afraid that doesn't help the present situation. Drink and drugs are behind most of this teenage thuggery and the Chief Constable on the radio this morning was right that something needs to be done about the availability of drink. Underage drinkers frequently get it from their parents and it's all far too cheap. When lager costs less than bottled water someone needs to take action pretty quickly. I'm afraid I agree that in the short term punishment should be more severe
In the long run though we do need to look at parenting and schooling. Far too many kids are running around the streets with their parents not knowing or caring where they are or what they are doing. Following complaints about litter, a headmaster is quoted in the Courier today saying that's what teenagers do. What kind of message does that send? It's high time that being a teenager stopped being used as an excuse for any kind of bad behaviour.
I agree with all you say. I agree that there needs to be short term pulling in of the reins alongside a long term solution that works. I agree that although I'm an imperfect parent myself, that there needs to be a lot of work done in helping adults take responsibility for their kids.
I was in Inverness at the weekend for a family weekend off. We were in Brewers Fayre and I couldn't believe what I saw. A family of 5, two adults and 3 children under the age of about 4.
The mother had been drinking quite a lot and then proceeded to breastfeed the baby. The second youngest child, about 2, was being fed ice cubes dipped in beer. The oldest child, about 4, consumed something in the region of half a small bottle of Vodka Ice. Now, as a teetotaler I might be slightly over reacting, but this just seemed like these children we're heading for a difficult childhood and adolescence!
j4bberw0ck
13-Feb-08, 16:50
I think the fact that she sees smirking little rats who will be out causing more hurt in the not too distant future
I thought they'd got minimum 17 / 15 / 15 years?
The real trouble is that they'll be out in their mid thirties, completely institutionalised, completely unemployable, and completely brutalised. Then they'll be on bennies the rest of their worthless lives.
There's an argument (in my view, for what little that's worth) that it'll be so because we - society - let them down. In place of discipline, they got "who cares?" In place of respect for others, they were allowed to see others as somehow less than themselves. In place of a real lesson when they started to go wrong, they got some idiot who accepted all their excuses, who treated them as "young adults" and who bought in to all the politically-correct theories about "deprivation" and "lack of opportunity" being responsible.
That is the be biggest, best and most compelling argument I can think of for using the birch on young offenders. Some, you'll never deter and they'll go on to steal / kill / spend years in jail. Some would be deterred and never trouble the legal system or their fellow man again. For their sake if for no one else's we need to be much toughter on antisocial behaviour.
j4bberw0ck
13-Feb-08, 17:21
When lager costs less than bottled water someone needs to take action pretty quickly. I'm afraid I agree that in the short term punishment should be more severe
Badger, we see eye-to-eye about a lot of things, but I'm sorry - I have to disagree. Not about the punishment, but about the price of drink being a major factor. Kids will buy it at three / four / five times the price, and if they can't do that, they'll make it. The root problem isn't that drink is cheap, it's that kids are able to wander the streets with quantities of it, or while tanked up. Any kid on the street, tanked up, when I was a teenager would have been taken home pronto by the police and dealt with by parents. Trouble is, these days, no police. They're all in cars, in the office, or on "refreshment breaks".
Garry Newlove didn't need an anti-cheap-drink campaign. He needed coppers walking the streets deterring the behaviours which he went out to stop. And then when they were called because he was in trouble, he needed them there FAST. The Police (in the form of the Political Police - the ACPO brigade) are making an art form out of blaming everything except a lack of policing.
In the long run though we do need to look at parenting and schooling. Far too many kids are running around the streets with their parents not knowing or caring where they are or what they are doing. Following complaints about litter, a headmaster is quoted in the Courier today saying that's what teenagers do. What kind of message does that send? It's high time that being a teenager stopped being used as an excuse for any kind of bad behaviour.Now we're agreeing again!
Yes I know that but I was also under the impression that lawyers must believe their client is innocent before representing them, are you telling me they all do? Don't believe that for a minute.
Nope, they don't need to believe their clients are innocent. They are, though, required to defend them to the utmost of their ability regardless of their personal feelings in the matter. And it's just as well for all of us that that's the way it works - you never know when you might need the help yourself.
I agree with all you say. I agree that there needs to be short term pulling in of the reins alongside a long term solution that works. I agree that although I'm an imperfect parent myself, that there needs to be a lot of work done in helping adults take responsibility for their kids.
I was in Inverness at the weekend for a family weekend off. We were in Brewers Fayre and I couldn't believe what I saw. A family of 5, two adults and 3 children under the age of about 4.
The mother had been drinking quite a lot and then proceeded to breastfeed the baby. The second youngest child, about 2, was being fed ice cubes dipped in beer. The oldest child, about 4, consumed something in the region of half a small bottle of Vodka Ice. Now, as a teetotaler I might be slightly over reacting, but this just seemed like these children we're heading for a difficult childhood and adolescence!
That is dreadful. Surely that is against the law? You should hav e reported it.
Having seen the interview on GMTV this morning my 12 year old said "they should be in prison with only a bed and a bucket for a toilet" clever lass:D
Penelope Pitstop
13-Feb-08, 20:07
I've seen Mrs Newlove's interviews over the last few days too. I have to say that if I were in her shoes right now I would feel exactly the same. The poor woman and her family are still grieving and feel hard done to by the justice system. Seemingly one of the lads is set to appeal his conviction....so no moving on for her or her family for a while longer. (Mind you not sure how you move on from something like that.)
The birch does sound a very good idea for kids. And I think it would be important to do it in public - the public humuliation would act as a deterrant also.
No respect, that's what's wrong with alot of the young folk (must not brand them all under the "louts/thugs" umbrella though). God, if I spoke to anyone like some of them speak to adults/teachers/police, etc I'd have got a thick ear from my Mum...in fact the fear of punishment from my parents would have been enough for me. lol:lol: I'll just make it clear that I don't agree with hitting your kids, but a slap round the ear for being bad was no bad thing, pity parents can't do that anymore.
On the subject of parents...do you know where your kids are when they're out??....bet most of you do....if you don't ....then why not??
Just think of some other countries where if you steal they cut off your hand - so I think Mmmm I won't do that again. Now I'm not saying that's what we need here, but the Mmmm won't do that again attitude IS what we need.
Badger, we see eye-to-eye about a lot of things, but I'm sorry - I have to disagree. Not about the punishment, but about the price of drink being a major factor. Kids will buy it at three / four / five times the price, and if they can't do that, they'll make it. The root problem isn't that drink is cheap, it's that kids are able to wander the streets with quantities of it, or while tanked up. Any kid on the street, tanked up, when I was a teenager would have been taken home pronto by the police and dealt with by parents. Trouble is, these days, no police. They're all in cars, in the office, or on "refreshment breaks".
We will have to agree to differ on the price issue (mustn't agree all the time - what would we talk about?) but I think you have put your finger right on it with one phrase
taken home pronto by the police and dealt with by parents What chance of that these days - not much. If the parents of these louts were willing to deal with them (or even capable of it) would they be drunk in the streets in the first place. I can just imagine what my father would have had to say.
If the parents of these louts were willing to deal with them (or even capable of it) would they be drunk in the streets in the first place.
Nice idea. However, you can't be hard on your kids these days. No smacking, no anything. They will be on to Childline and have you grassed up pronto. Social services will be on top of you in a flash. Teachers can't touch them, neighbours get the middle finger. Mum and Dad are either already on drink/drugs or turning to them for a break from the reality of a world where kids now have pretty much everything. Designer clothes, games consoles, TVs, I-pods, mobile phones, computers, the Internet etc are all at the disposal of most kids. However, you keep hearing the apologists wailing "Oh, there's nothing for our kids to do, no wonder they are turning to drink and drugs"
Baloney, the reality is that we have created a society where kids do nothing and get it all handed to them. We are pandering to their every whim. Where has the notion of working hard at school and behaving yourself in order to obtain good qualifications and good character references gone? Those were the factors that led to a good job and the chance to earn the money to buy coveted items, items that are now given to children routinely before they have even reached High School age!! An avalanche of toys at Christmas and on Birthdays can surely only lead to the impression that anything a child wants is only a puppy-eyed glance in the parents direction away. Little wonder that when they are already bored with material items at a young age, they look further afield to the world of drink/drugs for thrills and the affirmation that, as so many parents seem in a hurry to promote, they are already grown-ups.
Having seen the interview on GMTV this morning my 12 year old said "they should be in prison with only a bed and a bucket for a toilet" clever lass:D
Very good, bit generous with the bucket though!! I firmly believe that when you make your bed, you should be left to pee in it!!
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